Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 151 - AVS Forum
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post #4501 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

My PS3 is connected to my D2 via HDMI. I configured my PS3 to output LPCM. In the audio settings, I selected "automatic" since I wasn't sure which of the dozen or so options to manually select. What did you do to conclude that the D2 can't handle LPCM 7.1? Theoretically, the D2, with HDMI 1.1 support, should be able to handle LPCM 7.1. Do you have a 7.1 speaker setup or 5.1?

The Anthems can accept no more than 5.1 channel audio on any input, including HDMI PCM.

However, the Anthems can process 5.1 channel audio input up to 7.1 speaker output.

Anthem has confirmed that any change here would require a hardware upgrade. However, keep in mind there is precious little "real" 7.1 source content out there and that is likely to remain true for quite some time. So for me, at least, this is a non-problem.

------------------------------------------

HDMI has a lot of "optional" features, and multi-channel audio is one of them.

An HDMI V1.1 device, and even an HDMI V1.3 device, might only accept stereo audio for example. This would typically be the case, for example, with a TV with an HDMI input but with only stereo speakers.

In fact the Anthem's own HDMI output is also limited to stereo audio.
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post #4502 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I wish some of the others would jump in and check the LFE issue. It takes all of 5 minutes if you have the Avia or DVE disks and an SPL meter. I was kind of surprised by the "months ago" answer too since 1.10 isn't that old.

I still need to check some of my other players and then update the firmware. Problem is I'm real short on time this week.

Yes, it would be great if someone with a PS3 or one of the stand-alone HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players hooked up via HDMI could also check this -- particularly if you are also using the V1.11g test software. But even a V1.10 or V1.11 test to confirm what Tom is seeing would be useful.

Let's not let this drop off the radar again, folks. It's high time to determine definitively whether or not this problem exists.
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post #4503 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

^




It's even worse than that! I have a Pioneer Elite 59avi that is currently utilizing the analogs for SA-CD and DVD-A duty! So I would have up to 3 devices vying for the analog inputs! Do you know how many cables that would be?!

HDMI would certainly be a life saver in this regard.



Yep, from what I have read Blu-ray owners are perfectly happy using the lossless PCM. The D2 certainly seems like it would be a perfect match for doing this.

BTW, Tolstoi, I do see you posting in the JVC RS1 threads once in a while, but I am not clear on whether you have ordered one?

I am also using the Oppo970HD for SACD and DVD-A, analogue is not a good a path for folks like us.

Using HDMI I significantly cleaned up my rack. Only one signal cable and one power cable per source is so simple. The only one thing to be careful is to get good quality HDMI cables to ensure stability.

The JVC RS1 is on my short list for my next projector. The target time for the around December unless I crack before.
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post #4504 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

The JVC RS1 is on my short list for my next projector. The target time for the around December unless I crack before.

If your target time is December - you will probably change
your mind when you see the Sony Diamond - which comes
out at CEDIA in September. I saw both PJs at CES and I'm
waiting for the Diamond.
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post #4505 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 12:13 PM
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I will try to check with the PS3 and Toshiba A1 and possibly the 79AVi with 1.10 before I upgrade to 1.11g. It may not happen until the weekend though.
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post #4506 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

If your target time is December - you will probably change
your mind when you see the Sony Diamond - which comes
out at CEDIA in September. I saw both PJs at CES and I'm
waiting for the Diamond.


This is why I said short listed... the door is still opened.
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post #4507 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

This is why I said short listed... the door is still opened.

From all the MILLIONS of JVC RS-1 Postings I have been
reading here on AVS - I don't see it as even a candidate
unless your have absolutely NOTHING TODAY. For me
it would be a step back. Or at best - sideways.
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post #4508 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

From all the MILLIONS of JVC RS-1 Postings I have been
reading here on AVS - I don't see it as even a candidate
unless your have absolutely NOTHING TODAY. For me
it would be a step back. Or at best - sideways.


Final decision is also pending a few tests in my own setup.
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post #4509 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 01:55 PM
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I have an AVM50 and MCA50 on order and have a couple questions...

Is there any disadvantage in using Component Video from the Pio BDP-HD1 to the Anthem instead of HDMI, and then Component from the Anthem to the Pio 1540HD?

Also, Component from the TiVo S3 to the Anthem, then Anthem to 1540HD via the same (single) Component cable.

My rationale is to avoid any potential HDMI issues yet still take advantage of the Anthem's scaler.

I've read the entire thread and remain somewhat confused.
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post #4510 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

I have an AVM50 and MCA50 on order and have a couple questions...

Is there any disadvantage in using Component Video from the Pio BDP-HD1 to the Anthem instead of HDMI, and then Component from the Anthem to the Pio 1540HD?

A WHOPPING BIG DIFFERENCE.

No Lossless Audio.
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post #4511 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:03 PM
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I was thinking of using multi-channel (analog) out from the BDP-HD1 to the Anthem and optical coax from the S3 since that is how I'm currently doing it with my Receiver.

Would that work and still allow lossless audio?

Thanks for the quick reply btw.
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post #4512 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yes, it would be great if someone with a PS3 or one of the stand-alone HD-DVD or Blu-Ray players hooked up via HDMI could also check this -- particularly if you are also using the V1.11g test software. But even a V1.10 or V1.11 test to confirm what Tom is seeing would be useful.

Let's not let this drop off the radar again, folks. It's high time to determine definitively whether or not this problem exists.
--Bob


What do I need to do. I have a PS3 via hdmi pcm and have not had any problems with the subs getting information.

Jeremy
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post #4513 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

I was thinking of using multi-channel (analog) out from the BDP-HD1 to the Anthem and optical coax from the S3 since that is how I'm currently doing it with my Receiver.

Would that work and still allow lossless audio?

Thanks for the quick reply btw.

TRY it both ways -

I know in advance which one you will PICK as the BEST.

5.1 Analog is for those who don't have HDMI - Duh.

WHY BUY a HDMI Receiver - Then?
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post #4514 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:11 PM
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LOL. Ok, I'll take that as a no.

I guess my rationale was to avoid any potential HDMI issues since that seems to be the majority of the discussion here.

I was under the impression multi-channel analog was (lossless) LPCM.
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post #4515 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

LOL. Ok, I'll take that as a no.

I guess my rationale was to avoid any potential HDMI issues since that seems to be the majority of the discussion here.

The only HDMI problems are with some cable boxes.
Use component for them because optical coax is fine.

There ARE NO HDMI problems with a BDP-HD1.

I have both Toshiba HD DVD and Pioneer - NO HDMI problems.

My Sony DVRs are hooked to Component now - I had them
hooked via HDMI also with no problems. I just wanted to
open up some HDMI Ports for future use.
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post #4516 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

Is there any disadvantage in using Component Video from the Pio BDP-HD1 to the Anthem instead of HDMI, and then Component from the Anthem to the Pio 1540HD?

Also, Component from the TiVo S3 to the Anthem, then Anthem to 1540HD via the same (single) Component cable.

My rationale is to avoid any potential HDMI issues yet still take advantage of the Anthem's scaler.

I've read the entire thread and remain somewhat confused.

Things to consider:

* You can't get the highest quality audio from the Blu-Ray player unless you use HDMI or multi-channel analog connections into the Anthem. The traditional optical or coax digital audio cables will only carry the lower quality "compatibility" or "core" audio track -- about the same quality as the best DTS tracks found on standard DVDs. This is not bad by any means, but it is not as good as you can get.

* Some Component source and/or display devices have gratuitous "filtering" on their Component outputs or inputs which you can't turn off. This lowers resolution a bit compared to HDMI. I don't know if that is a problem with any of the devices you mention. This can be seen with horizontal and vertical resolution charts on calibration DVDs for example. Since video from discs and from HDTV is inherently digital, and since video processing in TVs is also inherently digital, using Component connections involves a digital to analog conversion at the source's output and an analog to digital conversion at the display's input. In modern devices this is not usually as significant a problem as the gratuitous filtering mentioned above.

* Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray include a "feature" by which any given disc can prohibit HD output over Component cables. For such a disc, HD output would be limited to HDMI cables only. Despite threats to the contrary up until last year, no studio has yet started authoring any discs that work this way. It is not clear they ever will. But they could begin any time they think they can get away with it.

* Some newer Component source devices will not put out as high resolution a video signal on Component as they offer on HDMI. Such a device might top out at 1080i/60Hz on Component output while offering 1080p/60Hz on HDMI output for example.

* The Anthems limit Component output to 480p if they are being fed "Macrovision protected" Component input. Anthem HDMI output from the same Component source can still be scaled up however. Macrovision protection is, for example, imposed on the video output of some standard DVD players to keep people from copying standard DVDs to video tape. This is something the PLAYER does -- it's not in the content of the disc itself. However the disc is flagged for whether or not it is supposed to be copy protected at all. Most commercial, standard DVD discs are flagged to be copy protected.

* The Anthems also have a lower max resolution for Component input and output than for HDMI. The Anthems can input, process, and output up to 1080p/60Hz HDMI. The Anthem's can input, process, and output only up to 1080p/30Hz (1080i/60Hz) Component. The Anthems can "pass through" unprocessed 1080p/60Hz Component in to Component out. Note that since the Anthems can process up to 1080p/30Hz (1080i/60Hz) Component input, one of the processing things they can do is convert it to HDMI output, and the HDMI output can be frame rate raised up to 1080p/60Hz even though the input itself is Component and the Anthem's won't process Component output that high.

So these are the things to look out for.

Meanwhile, the HDMI side of things is probably about as low risk with the Anthem Statement D2 and AVM-50 as you are going to find ANYWHERE. Anthem tech support is very responsive to issues and is actively working to get improved HDMI software into people's hands on a case by case basis. I know of no other receiver or pre-amp/processor company that works this closely with their customers on HDMI stuff.

So although there are potential problems with HDMI, if you are tempted at all to go the HDMI route, doing it through the Anthem is about as close to a sure thing as you are going to find.
--Bob

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post #4517 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:21 PM
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I guess I'm asking because someone here was having an issue with HDMI along with the S3 TiVo and video switching.

HDMI is certainly a more elegant solution however and affords the best of both worlds when it works. However, I thought using Component instead might be more reliable until all the HDMI issues are resolved with firmware updates or whatnot.
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post #4518 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

* Both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray include a "feature" by which any given disc can prohibit HD output over Component cables.

3Dfx - I forgot about that tidbit that Bob reminded me about.

It is even worse than Bob described. They do some very unfriendly things when not using HDMI.
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post #4519 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by agrsiv95 View Post

What do I need to do. I have a PS3 via hdmi pcm and have not had any problems with the subs getting information.

Jeremy

Jeremy, thanks for volunteering!

Read this post:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9929124

and follow the link in that post to the specific test that people have been doing with their Pioneer receivers to verify that this bug is now fixed with their new Pioneer firmware.
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post #4520 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

I guess I'm asking because someone here was having an issue with HDMI along with the S3 TiVo and video switching.

THE S3 is notorious for not doing HDMI correctly.

You don't need HDMI for an S3.
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post #4521 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:27 PM
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Gotcha. I was aware that using component out from the BDP-HD1 for example could result in less than full resolution if copy protection was enabled/flagged on the disc but I was thinking the Anthem's scaler would upconvert/de-interlace it.

I wasn't aware of the Macrovision limitation.

How would this work?:

Video:

BDP-HD1-->HDMI-->AVM50-->HDMI-->1540HD

S3 TiVo-->Component-->AVM50-->HDMI-->1540HD

Audio:

BDP-HD1-->HDMI--AVM50 (of course)

S3 TiVo-->Optical Coax-->AVM50
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post #4522 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:28 PM
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Is there anything I need to change in my SMS-1?

Jeremy
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post #4523 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

I guess I'm asking because someone here was having an issue with HDMI along with the S3 TiVo and video switching.

HDMI is certainly a more elegant solution however and affords the best of both worlds when it works. However, I thought using Component instead might be more reliable until all the HDMI issues are resolved with firmware updates or whatnot.

Yes the Tivo S3 box is one of the ones Anthem is addressing with the latest test versions of their software.

There may be a few HDMI issues left which can not be fixed without new S3 software from Tivo, but reports here lead me to believe that Anthem has almost completely resolved all of the issues by clever stuff on the Anthem side.

In any event Component video and optical audio from the Tivo S3 is certainly a reasonable way to go. But you really should try hooking up HDMI video as well and then do a little A/B testing yourself after you have separately calibrated video levels both ways. This will help you see if there are any differences that matter to you according to whatever the S3 and your display might secretly be doing differently for Component.

Look for calibration charts periodically broadcast by INHD and HD NET usually very early in the morning about once every 2 weeks. The INHD version is named "Tune Up".
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post #4524 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

I was thinking of using multi-channel (analog) out from the BDP-HD1 to the Anthem and optical coax from the S3 since that is how I'm currently doing it with my Receiver.

Would that work and still allow lossless audio?

Thanks for the quick reply btw.

Using multi-channel analog for this needs to be done with care.

First, although the full, lossless audio track is used in the player for this, the quality of the audio that results is fundamentally dependent upon the quality of the digital to analog conversion audio output stage in THE PLAYER. I.e., it is the player's DACs you are hearing and not the Anthem's DACs.

Second, you should set the Anthem to Analog-Direct for that input so that the audio is passed to the output without being redigitized. Now this loses the ability of the Anthem to do all sorts of processing on the audio. In particular, speaker configuration management and bass steering should be set up in the player. It also means you can't get things like a stereo down-mix to go to the Zone 2 audio output. It also means you can't have the 5.1 analog input processed by the Anthem to drive a 7.1 speaker setup.

If you turn on the Anthem processing for that input, then the analog audio track gets redigitized, processed, and then converted back to analog again for output. Each extra step can potentially alter quality. In addition, you need to find a way to BYPASS speaker configuration management and bass steering in the player so that this crucial stuff isn't being done twice.
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post #4525 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by agrsiv95 View Post

Is there anything I need to change in my SMS-1?

Jeremy

Nope. And in fact you shouldn't really need to change your mains from small to large since the Avia test track won't be sending anything to the main speakers anyway for that test. I think you can do this test with your current speaker configuration unaltered.

Just switch between HDMI bitstream and HDMI multi-channel PCM and see if the test track's pink noise for bass on the LFE channel measures the same SPL (as it should) or if the PCM version is 10dB too low (which means the bug is present).
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post #4526 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Dfx View Post

Gotcha. I was aware that using component out from the BDP-HD1 for example could result in less than full resolution if copy protection was enabled/flagged on the disc but I was thinking the Anthem's scaler would upconvert/de-interlace it.

I wasn't aware of the Macrovision limitation.

How would this work?:

Video:

BDP-HD1-->HDMI-->AVM50-->HDMI-->1540HD

S3 TiVo-->Component-->AVM50-->HDMI-->1540HD

Audio:

BDP-HD1-->HDMI--AVM50 (of course)

S3 TiVo-->Optical Coax-->AVM50

Sure that's fine, but if it were me, I'd work with Anthem until HDMI works fine from the S3 as well. I really do think they are closing in on this despite the weirdness of some of the source devices out there.
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post #4527 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:51 PM
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I just ran the the tests and had the same readings with large or small speakers and PCM or Bitstream.

Jeremy
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post #4528 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by agrsiv95 View Post

I just ran the the tests and had the same readings with large or small speakers and PCM or Bitstream.

Jeremy

Cool! That says no LFE bug! What version of the Anthem software are you running?

The question now is whether the difference between your test and Tom's is due to the Anthem software version or due to some peculiarity of HDMI PCM output from the Oppo 970.
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post #4529 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 03:04 PM
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I have 1.11 that came with it. I had 1.10 But the problems with the trigger output could not be fixed/explained so my dealer "hot swapped" it for me. I have not had that problem with the new one but have developed an issue with it locking on to the 1080i input from the PS3.

I also have a 970 so I will try that now and let you know in a sec.

Jeremy
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post #4530 of 42945 Old 03-06-2007, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I wish some of the others would jump in and check the LFE issue. It takes all of 5 minutes if you have the Avia or DVE disks and an SPL meter. I was kind of surprised by the "months ago" answer too since 1.10 isn't that old.

I still need to check some of my other players and then update the firmware. Problem is I'm real short on time this week.

I JUST PUT THE Avia DVD in my BDP-HD1 running HDMI to the D2.

I ran the audio tests for all the speakers and subwoofers.

AT 0 DB VOLUME on the D2 - all channels deliver 72 db on the SPL
meter. The Subwoofer delivers 82 db on the SPL meter.

I CLAIM THERE IS NO PROBLEM.
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