Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 01:14 AM
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So each source has is own settings: contrast, brightness, tint and colors, but also CUE filtering, film mode on/off, noise reduction, cropping, total control over aspect ratios, tests patterns, and alot more options I'm forgetting.

Love this feature. Well done Anthem with the Scaler feature. I hope come September when Denon announce their new AVR-5807 that is has some of these scaling abilities.

LEVESQUE- As a Denon owner myself with a Denon DVD-A1XV (aka DVD-5910) would the Denon outputting 1080P using its HQV chip or a Pioneer outputting 480i thorough the Anthem upconverting to 1080P be better to use with the Sony Ruby or 1080P DLP projector etc?
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post #62 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

LEVESQUE- As a Denon owner myself with a Denon DVD-A1XV (aka DVD-5910) would the Denon outputting 1080P using its HQV chip or a Pioneer outputting 480i thorough the Anthem upconverting to 1080P be better to use with the Sony Ruby or 1080P DLP projector etc?

Tough question. The Realta HQV and Gennum VXP both have strong and weak points IMHO. Kris Deering has both a D2 and a 5910 and would probably be the best person to answer your question. You should ask him directly.

I think the best solution will be to keep the 5910, and use the upcoming Oppo 970H to pass 480i over HDMI (will probably sell for around 200$). So you would still have the 5910 to use the Realta (for things you prefer it with) and for audio, and the Oppo when you want to use the Gennum chip (for those things you prefer it with). With the D2 and Gennum, you will also be able to process and scale ALL your other sources (XBox 360, PS3, PS2, VHS, LD, Satellite SD and HD, etc).

Best of both worlds!

And i forgot. What are you outputting with the 5910? 1080p60? Something else? Then if you prefer using 1080p24 or any other timings to avoid judder or for any other reasons, you then need a scaler to do this. The D2 will do it.
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post #63 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

LEVESQUE- As a Denon owner myself with a Denon DVD-A1XV (aka DVD-5910) would the Denon outputting 1080P using its HQV chip or a Pioneer outputting 480i thorough the Anthem upconverting to 1080P be better to use with the Sony Ruby or 1080P DLP projector etc?

The Denon doesn't use the HQV processor for scaling (only de-interlacing). It uses an ABT processor for scaling, so the D2 may perform better given a 480i digital source. No guarantees, though; I'd wait to hear from someone like Kris Deering first.

Nick
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post #64 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 09:07 AM
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My Denon 3910 can output 1080i, will I get the deinterlacing from the genum chip?
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post #65 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 09:21 AM
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There is alot of choices and options here, and people that never used an external scaler before will be a little bit lost and confused with all the terms. For exemple. You really need to know the signal type you need to output before starting to use the D2. So YCbCr 4:2:2 or 4:4:4, RGB or Extented RGB, the color space of your display (SDTV or HDTV), the ouput resolution of the scaler (and if you know it, you definitely want to output a 1:1 signal matching your diplay native resolution). etc. And I really hope that new owners will come ask any questions here... but only after asking Nick at Anthem first...

Where can I find this information? If anyone has a Samsung HL-R6178W and know, please let me know. Thx.
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post #66 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 10:20 AM
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My Denon 3910 can output 1080i, will I get the deinterlacing from the genum chip?

No. The Denon will be doing the deinterlacing of the 480i DVD content. To scale from one resolution to another, you have to deinterlace first. So, 480i->1080i actually looks like this: 480i->480p->1080p->1080i (though the last two stages can be combined to save processing).

So the Denon will do the real deinterlacing, and you'll actually be forcing the Gennum to do an extra deinterlace step to take that 1080i output and convert it to your display resolution.

Ideally, you want to feed the D2 the native 480i 4:2:2 YCbCr signal, or you'll want to let the 3910 scale to your display resolution, and just let the D2 pass it through.

Michael
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post #67 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Michael Grant View Post

No. The Denon will be doing the deinterlacing of the 480i DVD content. To scale from one resolution to another, you have to deinterlace first. So, 480i->1080i actually looks like this: 480i->480p->1080p->1080i (though the last two stages can be combined to save processing).

So the Denon will do the real deinterlacing, and you'll actually be forcing the Gennum to do an extra deinterlace step to take that 1080i output and convert it to your display resolution.

Ideally, you want to feed the D2 the native 480i 4:2:2 YCbCr signal, or you'll want to let the 3910 scale to your display resolution, and just let the D2 pass it through.

So, what should I send to the D2, the options are; 480p, 720p, or 1080i? I believe my TV listed above can output 1080i, really 1080p but won't accept it through HDMI.

Thanks for your help....
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post #68 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 10:37 AM
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Hmm... honest truth? I'd try all three and see what you prefer. I know that's not satisfying but unfortunately, the two "ideal" choices are 480i and your display resolution, which aren't covered in your list (I assume). And of the choices that are left (480p/720p/1080i) they're in a tight race for second.

Michael
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post #69 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 11:30 AM
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bjgrounds, you could also try a component 480i feed from the Denon to feed the D2.
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post #70 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 12:23 PM
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Ok , I found out that the native resolution of my display is 1080p. Does that make a difference as to what I want to send to it? Also what resolution would I want to send from the D2 to the display?
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post #71 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bjgrounds View Post

Ok , I found out that the native resolution of my display is 1080p. Does that make a difference as to what I want to send to it? Also what resolution would I want to send from the D2 to the display?

It boils down to what component will do the best job at deinterlacing and scaling. Logically, given the components involved, I would send a 480i signal to the D2, deinterlace and scale to 720p and send it to the display device. You should try other scenarios as one of the other setups may look better.
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post #72 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I just put a new screenshots in the first post of this thread. It's an eye-shot from the film King Kong on a regular DVD at 480i. Not in HD, but still pretty decent.

Pio Elite 79AVi at 480i over HDMi to D2, then out at 1080p to Sony Ruby. On a 110" dia. So the image was 8' wide in reality.

There is some noise in the blacks, but it was introduced by my camera. It was not like that in the original image on the screen. Cheap camera...

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post #73 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by keenan View Post

It boils down to what component will do the best job at deinterlacing and scaling. Logically, given the components involved, I would send a 480i signal to the D2, deinterlace and scale to 720p and send it to the display device. You should try other scenarios as one of the other setups may look better.

So, it would appear that in order to take full advantage of the internal interlacing abilities of the D2 that a 480i DVD player is a must.

Stan
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post #74 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 01:06 PM
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Am I correct in assuming the D2 will list for $7,500?

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post #75 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gostan View Post

So, it would appear that in order to take full advantage of the internal interlacing abilities of the D2 that a 480i DVD player is a must.

For all intents and purposes, yes, although other scenarios could, and should, be tried to see what looks best, but, a 480i signal will usually be the best input signal.
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post #76 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 01:30 PM
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Am I correct in assuming the D2 will list for $7,500?

MSRP on D2 is $6700 U.S.
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post #77 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 05:20 PM
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I am about to place my order. My dealer says that he can deliver the AVM-50 now. He refers to it as an upgraded/rebadged D1. But, what will I be missing compared to the D2?
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post #78 of 42987 Old 04-03-2006, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by nkb View Post

I am about to place my order. My dealer says that he can deliver the AVM-50 now. He refers to it as an upgraded/rebadged D1. But, what will I be missing compared to the D2?

Find another dealer. The AVM-50 evolved from the AVM-30, which evolved from the AVM-20. The D1 was upgraded to the D2.

Seriously, consider calling them out before doing business because either you misunderstood or they're full of it.

Mike
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post #79 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by nkb
I am about to place my order. My dealer says that he can deliver the AVM-50 now. He refers to it as an upgraded/rebadged D1. But, what will I be missing compared to the D2?

nkb,

mkbintner is correct that the Athem D1/D2 and AVM20/30/40/50 are different lines of products. The Anthem web site is not updated yet for the newest models coming out, but you can get a pretty good idea of the audio differences between the D2 and AVM50 by comparing the features of the D1 and the AVM30.

You can be sure that the D1/D2 have better audio potential than the AVM products, but how MUCH better and is it worth it to you? That can only be answered by a personal listening session and your accountant!
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post #80 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

nkb,

mkbintner is correct that the Athem D1/D2 and AVM20/30/40/50 are different lines of products. The Anthem web site is not updated yet for the newest models coming out, but you can get a pretty good idea of the audio differences between the D2 and AVM50 by comparing the features of the D1 and the AVM30.

You can be sure that the D1/D2 have better audio potential than the AVM products, but how MUCH better and is it worth it to you? That can only be answered by a personal listening session and your accountant!


I am also awaiting the avm 50 with questions about d2. are you saying video processing is the same but audio is the difference?

frank
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post #81 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 05:27 AM
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I am also awaiting the avm 50 with questions about d2. are you saying video processing is the same but audio is the difference?

frank

Yes, I believe that is correct. The main (but not only) audio component differences in the D1/D2 Statement line compared to the AVM line are the 24 bit / 192 kHz upsampling for all eight channels, dual Motorola DSP engines, and more memory.
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post #82 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 05:49 AM
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Just curious. This may be a dumb question, but will the internal Gennum scaler in the D2 provide any PQ benefits to SD Satellite TV transmissions?

Stan
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post #83 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by gostan View Post

Just curious. This may be a dumb question, but will the internal Gennum scaler in the D2 provide any PQ benefits to SD Satellite TV transmissions?

Yes. There is a noise reduction feature that is really useful with SD channels. I'm sending a 480i signal from my satelllite STB and let the Gennum do the job instead of the cheap thing in my STB.

With native 1080i broadcast, the Gennum is doing a really nice job. The picture is sharper, and there is less noise then going from the STB directly to the projector. Big improvement for HD, but SD is... SD, so if the signal is bad and noisy, then the Gennum can't do alot of things with that...
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post #84 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by LEVESQUE
With native 1080i broadcast, the Gennum is doing a really nice job. The picture is sharper, and there is less noise then going from the STB directly to the projector. Big improvement for HD, but SD is... SD, so if the signal is bad and noisy, then the Gennum can't do alot of things with that...

So perhaps the Gennum will sharpen up the infamous "soft" HD picture from my HD-Tivo (HR10-250)???
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post #85 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

So perhaps the Gennum will sharpen up the infamous "soft" HD picture from my HD-Tivo (HR10-250)???

mlbrand,

I'm fascinated by this comment. Tell me more about this. I have the very same DirecTivo HR10-250, and I notice the picture is very "soft" but only if I output 480i from the Tivo for an HD channel (silly anyway though right!). If I use any other output setting on the Tivo for HD, for instance, 720p or 1080i, then let the D2 w/ Gennum process the signal, the picture is amazingly crisp. Colors lock right into place, it's unreal. That's even with DirecTV's notorious compressing of their HD channels. Now, that very same Tivo is also being used with an OTA HD antenna for the HD locals, and you talk about clarity, the picture is so insanely clear you could eat it with a spoon. A simple OTA HD network show like West Wing suddenly becomes a work of art.
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post #86 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by goenkar View Post

MSRP on D2 is $6700 U.S.

Thanks, and what is the MSRP on the AVM50? Can the AVM20/30 be upgraded to add the AVM50 video processing? If so, what will that cost?

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post #87 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by ManWithAPlan,
I'm fascinated by this comment. Tell me more about this. I have the very same DirecTivo HR10-250, and I notice the picture is very "soft" but only if I output 480i from the Tivo for an HD channel (silly anyway though right!). If I use any other output setting on the Tivo for HD, for instance, 720p or 1080i, then let the D2 w/ Gennum process the signal, the picture is amazingly crisp. Colors lock right into place, it's unreal. That's even with DirecTV's notorious compressing of their HD channels. Now, that very same Tivo is also being used with an OTA HD antenna for the HD locals, and you talk about clarity, the picture is so insanely clear you could eat it with a spoon. A simple OTA HD network show like West Wing suddenly becomes a work of art.

I went from a stunningly good HD picture from my Zenith DTV-1080 DirecTV sat. receiver, to the slightly fuzzy (1080i satellite) picture quality of the HR10-250 last fall. I don't have OTA HD in my area, so I can't comment on that. Don't get me wrong, the HR10 still has a very good picture, but not what I was used to. I said "infamous" in my earlier post because the slightly degraded PQ of the HR10 is well documented by other users I have chatted with.

I still have the Zenith stored up in the attic, but the TIVO function of the HR10 is worth the slight sacrifice in PQ. I sometimes think about paying another $5/month and hooking up the Zenith alongside the HR10, but can't quite justify it.

THAT is why I am hoping the D2/Gennum will sharpen things up a bit, and from your post it sounds like it will. That's good news!
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post #88 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 06:37 PM
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Here is something I commented on in another thread, and I was hoping that maybe one of you could clarify this for me:
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The biggest fault I can see with the D2 currently is that is only has 10 input configurations available - and of those 10, one is dedicated to AM/FM, one is for balanced analog 2 channel, and one is for 5.1 analog, leaving only 7 that are completely configurable. I use 11 configurations on my MC-12, so the D2 comes up short for my needs. Anthem should learn something from Lexicon and use the "patch bay" approach to input configurations. That is, ANY video input can be assigned to ANY audio input, and the same inputs can be used more than once. The Lex has 12 input configs available, and all 12 of them are completely programmable and assignable, allowing me to create configurations based on my needs, not by preconceived notions of what some guy somewhere thinks I should need. I could probably get by with the D2's 10 configs if 3 of them were not "hard wired" and I were allowed to program them as I wish (maybe they are configurable, but the manual seemed to indicate otherwise).

Am I correct in thinking that there are only 10 input configurations available, and are three of them really "hard wired"?
Quote:


Hmm... honest truth? I'd try all three and see what you prefer. I know that's not satisfying but unfortunately, the two "ideal" choices are 480i and your display resolution, which aren't covered in your list (I assume). And of the choices that are left (480p/720p/1080i) they're in a tight race for second.

Michael, until the new Oppo 970H is released, would 480i over component be preferable to 480p/720p/1080i over HDMI?

I'm seriously considering the D2 to replace my Lex MC-12/Vantage-HD combo, but I'm nervous about not having enough flexibility to meet my needs. I'm also concerned about further development of the Gennum scaler feature set. "Thinking about it" is a long way off from total commitment to further development.
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post #89 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Here is something I commented on in another thread, and I was hoping that maybe one of you could clarify this for me:

Am I correct in thinking that there are only 10 input configurations available, and are three of them really "hard wired"?

Michael, until the new Oppo 970H is released, would 480i over component be preferable to 480p/720p/1080i over HDMI?

I'm seriously considering the D2 to replace my Lex MC-12/Vantage-HD combo, but I'm nervous about not having enough flexibility to meet my needs. I'm also concerned about further development of the Gennum scaler feature set. "Thinking about it" is a long way off from total commitment to further development.

Bob,

You bring up an important point, and it touches on one area where I'd like to see Anthem provide more flexibility. You are correct that there are only 7 totally configurable inputs -besides the AM/FM Tuner, 2 Channel Analog Balanced, and 6 channel (5.1) analog RCA, all of which are "hard-wired". I found that I had to get a little creative in order to handle all my components. As it is, I now have used every available input, and all but 1 output on the D2, and though I don't expect to need another source anytime soon, it would be nice to have some growing room. I am at max potential now as far as number of input sources.

In defense of Anthem, I will say that the 7 flexible input sources are completely configurable. That is, if you want to re-use a different video or audio source for a given "Input" you can. You can also specify what speaker configuration to use per input as the default, and then modify if/when needed.

I think it may just boil down to real-estate on the back of the D2. Anthem is literally using every centimeter of available space on the back panel already. I think if they want to allow for more inputs, they are going to have to change the chassis and move to a larger chassis. I would suspect that the D3, whenever it becomes a reality, will almost HAVE to have a much larger footprint. Seems the connectivity we need these days goes way beyond what was needed even 3 years ago by most high-enders.

I thought it might be helpful for me to share my setup as a use case, to illustrate one example anyway of the various inputs and what they might be used for on a D2:

CD - Marantz CDR-510 DualDeck Pro CD Recorder/Player
TAPE - Olive Symphony Music Server
VCR - Sony RDR-VX515 VCR/DVD Recorder Combo
DVD - Pioneer DV-79avi DVD Video/DVD Audio/SACD player
AUX - Sirius Satellite Radio Tuner
SAT - DirecTivo HR10-250
TV - XBOX 360
AM/FM Tuner (Hard-Wired, Built into D2)
2 Channel Balanced Analog - Meridian G08 Upsampling CD Player
6 Channel Analog - Pioneer DV-79AVI (6 Analog Outputs for SACD use only)
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post #90 of 42987 Old 04-04-2006, 08:19 PM
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I have a AVM20 and have found a great feature in the Digital (first) then Analouge. This combination will free up a number of connections.

I use the the CD digital input for the Midi Lab then when the Midi Lab is switched off the CD input becomes the Reel to Reel tape recorder.

The AUX is a turntable but becomes PS2 when switched on.
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