Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 07:42 AM
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obie_fl,
The fact that Color and Hue D2 input settings are working with your 79avi is certainly puzzling.

Do me a favor. Under the "7" key for the 79avi's input on the D2, go to the "Info" panel and confirm that the D2 is, in fact, really seeing HDMI RGB at 480i from your 79avi, and then re-check that Color or Hue is working.

The idea that it was the HDMI RGB (vs. HDMI YCbCr) which was causing those controls not to work in my configuration was just a guess. If you are seeing them working when the D2 really says it is receiving an HDMI RGB input at 480i, then I guess my problem lies elsewhere, although I can't imagine what it would be.
--Bob

EDITED TO ADD: I wonder if it is working for you because of the "Bypass" stuff you've been trying in you hunt for proper aspect ratio?


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post #902 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 09:26 AM
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Bob - Thanks for the responses.

When I had RGB selected on the Pioneer I also checked the "7" info and it did say RGB. I'm now using (Component 12bit) on the Pioneer as RGB was not passing blacker then black on my system. Does RGB pass blacker then black on your system?

The 59AVi menu does sound the same as the 79AVi and yes I am in the HDMI menu. The settings you and Nathan recommended are what I started with and also work with my cable HD-DVR. I think I'll start from scratch tonight on the 79AVi and maybe swap HDMI ports with the cable box.

I'm confident my display works at 720P as that is what I was using with my previous scaler. I will play around with 1080i and maybe 960P once I get 720P figured out. I wish there was a way to change resolutions other then the main setup menu. I like to see a discrete key or at least move it into the "7" menu.

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post #903 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 09:58 AM
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obie_fl,
By default the "HDMI Direct" settings in the 59avi pass neither Blacker than Black nor Peak White data at 480i. The folks in the 59avi owner's thread consider this a bug. The bug only exists at 480i.

Carl Sundstrom came up with a work around -- verified with a digital signal sensor to check precisely what's coming out when the DVD sends luminance values of 1-254 in. His work around involves making the 59avi go through some gyrations with Extended RGB. See the first post in the 59avi owner's thread in the standard definition DVD forum here.

The results of his work around include a few steps still crushed right near 0 and 254, and a handful of one step rounding errors in between. In addition, Color saturation has to be reduced a few steps since YCbCr to RGB color conversion gets done using the math for Extended RGB with these settings.

Some folks prefer to run the 59avi in it's default 480i settings -- giving up Blacker than Black and Peak Whites instead -- or at 480p or above where the 59avi has no such problem -- rather than live with Carl's "nearly perfect" results for 480i.

The 59avi does not offer the option to send anything other than RGB out the HDMI cable.

I'm using Carl's work around settings at 480i with my 59avi.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Your aspect ratio problem is certainly a puzzle. Is it possible that you've got something set for PAL instead of NTSC?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm beginning to think my Color/Hue control problem really might be a bit of the firmware that didn't quite take properly. But I'm not going to reload the firmware just yet as I have a perfectly adequate workaround using the controls in the other devices.
--Bob


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post #904 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 12:28 PM
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Bob - The 79AVi has RGB, Full Range RGB, Component 12 bit, and Component under HDMI Color. I guess this is one area where the 59 and 79 diverge.

Tom


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post #905 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

Next time you talk to Anthem ask why this problem seems to be much more prevalent on the D2. As I said earlier every HDMI device I own and most I've seen in other places have a screw holding the jack above it. I can't help but believe this is a design flaw on Anthem's part.

There appear to be two basic configurations for securing the HDMI jack. One as on the D2, which is surface mounted to the board and not secured to the chassis. The other is the one you speak of wherein there is a tab with a screw for mounting to the chassis. In terms of stability for insertion and extraction, having the jack secured to the chassis could be a better solution.

The other design variation is the use of friction retention clips within the HDMI jack body. There appear to be 3 variants of this:

a. Clips on bottom (as in the D2 jack)
b. Clips on bottom and top (as in my Marantz DV9600 and SAT Receiver).
c. Clips on bottom and sides

In my estimation the only design that makes sense in terms of keeping an even force on the wafer pins is design "b". The other designs will create asymmetric loads and allow crushing/distortion of the pins. Which is exactly what is happening repeatedly on the D2 jacks. This has happened to me and many others including Nick, himself, at Anthem.

I am onto my 4th D2. I have relayed all of this to my dealer who has passed it on to Anthem with my observation that they consider using a different HDMI jack for the D2. I think the basic cost to Anthem is probably about $20(maybe less) for the 5xHDMI jacks that they install in each unit. It is costing them much, much more than that for all the returns and support issues that these jacks are causing, not to mention frustrations for the end users. From my dealer, Anthem apparently is quite concerned about this and would sincerely like a solution to this problem as well.
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post #906 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 03:41 PM
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nkb - were you able to confirm that it's the HDMI jacks you're having trouble with versus the handshaking between the D2 and Fujitsu (i.e. were you able to try the D2 with a display of your dealer's)?
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post #907 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nkb View Post

I am onto my 4th D2.

Congratulations, I myself have been through 5 Integra Research RDC-7.1 processors until I found one that worked OK. I wonder what Anthem/IR do with all these defective units? Sell them as refurbished? Fix them and sell them as new?

R
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post #908 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 03:53 PM
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folks,

I have the Panasonic AE700 Projector, which according to projectorcentral, indicates a 1280x 720 native rate, but a "maximum" of 1920x1080.

found here: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...-PT-AE700U.htm

So, does this information from this site indicate I can use the Anthem to scale to 1080P based on this PJs max rate?

Just curious if anyone would be able to give me some setup tips (refresh rates, if I should use 4:2:2, and other stuff to help me get it looking awesome) with this PJ since I'll have my unit later in the week!

best,

Stieger

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post #909 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 04:52 PM
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One last question - anybody using the Oppo 970H DVD player using hdmi out to the Anthem?

Just curious, for those who may be using this combo, what's your impressions? Any problems, does it look as good as expected (or in comparison to some of the Pioneer dvd models)?

Looking at the Oppo makes me wonder what is missing since it's so small. My previous DVD player, the CARY DVD-6, was 45 lbs and was rather substantial, so just wondering if the Oppo leaves any audio or video to be desired.....

Thx, just "rebuilding" my system for the 100th time!!

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post #910 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randman View Post

nkb - were you able to confirm that it's the HDMI jacks you're having trouble with versus the handshaking between the D2 and Fujitsu (i.e. were you able to try the D2 with a display of your dealer's)?

Once I determined that the D2 jack was damaged I didn't go any further. A visual inspection shows the damage clearly - there would be no expectation that it could work under the circumstances.

Remember, I had the D2 and Fujitsu handshaking, once upon a time (when I didn't have a damaged HDMI jack). So I don't think there is a fundamental HDMI/handshaking problem.

However, on the next D2, I WILL have them test it for me at the dealers before it goes home. But, I want to be there for the test (and the insertion of the HDMI cable).
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post #911 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post

One last question - anybody using the Oppo 970H DVD player using hdmi out to the Anthem?

Just curious, for those who may be using this combo, what's your impressions? Any problems, does it look as good as expected (or in comparison to some of the Pioneer dvd models)?

Looking at the Oppo makes me wonder what is missing since it's so small. My previous DVD player, the CARY DVD-6, was 45 lbs and was rather substantial, so just wondering if the Oppo leaves any audio or video to be desired.....

Stieger

The Oppo does just fine with the D2. SD DVDs upscaled and deinterlaced thru the Gennum look almost as good as Blu-ray discs over the Samsung BDP 1000. It seems to have less operational issues than almost anything out there on HDMI.

The Oppo also makes a good transport for CDs when outputted digitally into my Benchmark DAC1. Not the best I have heard, however.

Jerry Rappaport
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post #912 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post

folks,

I have the Panasonic AE700 Projector, which according to projectorcentral, indicates a 1280x 720 native rate, but a "maximum" of 1920x1080.

found here: http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pana...-PT-AE700U.htm

So, does this information from this site indicate I can use the Anthem to scale to 1080P based on this PJs max rate?

Just curious if anyone would be able to give me some setup tips (refresh rates, if I should use 4:2:2, and other stuff to help me get it looking awesome) with this PJ since I'll have my unit later in the week!

best,

Stieger

You would basically be defeating the purpose of the D2 if you scaled to 1080P as the projector's scaler will then turn around and scale it to 720P, its native rate. You would want to scale everything with the D2 to 720P your native rate to bypass the projectors scaler.

Tom


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post #913 of 43113 Old 07-17-2006, 06:58 PM
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nkb - Lots of good info on the HDMI connectors let us know what you find out.

I started from scratch on the Pioneer 79AVi tonight and now have it dialed in. I don't know what was going on with it last night but it looks fine now. I did adjust the geometry on the projector so that may have been the centering problem I saw. I'm pretty happy at this point.

I have all three sources pretty much set up and not a S/PDIF or analog cable in sight. My sources again are Pioneer DV-79AVi, Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR (Brighthouse Networks with Passport software), and Toshiba A1 HD DVD. All connected via HDMI only. I may have to pick up the Oppo 790 just for the SACD over HDMI and may consider replacing the 79AVi if it is up to snuff.

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post #914 of 43113 Old 07-18-2006, 01:24 PM
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(Obie_fl)

So even though my projector is 1280x720 (which I assume means it'll do 1080i), I should still have the Anthem do 720P vs. 1080i?

What about 4:2:2 as opposed to 4:2: 4 or whatever it's called???

Thx again,

e

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post #915 of 43113 Old 07-18-2006, 01:49 PM
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Has Anthem mentioned anything about offering an SDI input for the D2 ?

- Andy
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post #916 of 43113 Old 07-18-2006, 02:08 PM
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I haven't heard about SDI input. Frankly, I doubt they would do it -- too much of a niche. Doesn't HDMI essentially take it's place in the market?
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post #917 of 43113 Old 07-18-2006, 03:59 PM
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I'd be shocked if they offered SDI. Although I do still have my SDI mod'ed Pany.

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post #918 of 43113 Old 07-18-2006, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post

(Obie_fl)

So even though my projector is 1280x720 (which I assume means it'll do 1080i), I should still have the Anthem do 720P vs. 1080i?

What about 4:2:2 as opposed to 4:2: 4 or whatever it's called???

Thx again,

e

That is correct you would want the D2 to do the scaling not the projector.

Not sure about the Chroma subsampling question. Do you mean on the projector? Generally 4:4:4 has a higher sampling rate then 4:2:2.

Tom


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post #919 of 43113 Old 07-18-2006, 11:05 PM
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(obie_fl)

I was talking about the Anthem set up at 4:2:2 or 4:4:4?

Just not sure if I should set the Anthem to 720 or 1080.

Last question - how is the Toshiba A1 working out - do you have it sending 480, and if so how are you ensuring you're by-passing the scaler in the Toshiba and using the Anthem?

Thx,

Eric

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post #920 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 02:58 AM
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stieger,

You should set the Anthem to output 720 to your projector, as your projector will not output 1080. It will allow 1080 to be input, but has to convert it to its native rate of 720 for output. The D2 will be MUCH better at this 1080 to 720 conversion, so you will get a better picture.
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post #921 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 05:32 AM
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Not sure how or where you would set the chroma subsampling on the Anthem, only thing I can think of is the Input Color Space selection, which I have on Auto.

The Toshiba can't output 480i on standard DVDs, it can only output 1080i, 720P or 480P. For standard DVDs you would want to output deinterlaced 480P and let the D2 scale it to your native rate. For HD DVDs you would set the player to 1080i and let the D2 scale that to native rate. Many of us have a seperate player for standard DVDs that outputs 480i, such as the Pioneer Elite 59AVI or 79AVi. The new Oppo 970 is also popular and only $150.

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post #922 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 04:09 PM
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Rumor has it the Oppo doesn't have very good sound quality - so not sure why I'd want to pair it with the Anthem.

I had an AVM30 with a CARy-6 DVD player, and that combo sounded incredible. However, when I took the Cary out of the setup and put in a low-level denon, I immediately noticed the sound quality was less open and airy, detailed, etc. I don't want to buy the Oppo only to find this exact scenario.

for those of you with the Oppo AND other more expensive DVD players, do you notice a difference in the audio quality between the Oppo and your other unit while running through the Anthem?

Best,

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post #923 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 05:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by stieger "Rumor has it the Oppo doesn't have very good sound quality - so not sure why I'd want to pair it with the Anthem. I had an AVM30 with a CARy-6 DVD player, and that combo sounded incredible. However, when I took the Cary out of the setup and put in a low-level denon, I immediately noticed the sound quality was less open and airy, detailed, etc. I don't want to buy the Oppo only to find this exact scenario. for those of you with the Oppo AND other more expensive DVD players, do you notice a difference in the audio quality between the Oppo and your other unit while running through the Anthem?"

stieger,

If you utilize the digital outputs from any CD or DVD player you use the DAC's in the processor. In this scenario there should be no difference in the audio quality between CD/DVD players as you are only using the player as a transport and audio "quality" will be determined by the ability of your processors DAC's. However, when you are using the ANALOG outputs from a CD/DVD player you ARE using the DAC's in the player, not the processor.

Simply put, if you think your CD players DAC's are better than your processors DAC's, use the analog connection. If you like the sound of your processors DAC's better, use a digital connection.

I'm fairly certain that the AVM30's and the D2's DAC's are better than the Oppo's !
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post #924 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 08:14 PM
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I have a dumb question:

I just bought a Sirius SR-H550 satellite radio tuner. Currently, I have the unit set up to ouput to my AVM-50 via optical. Would I be better suited setting the digital satellite tuner to output via analog stereo L+R to the processor?

I could see the benefit of setting a dedicated cd player to output analog stereo, but I'm curious what the preferred output would be from a digital satellite radio tuner.

Thoughts?

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post #925 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 08:51 PM
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I have found that even if you are using digital outs of a dvd player, you DO get different sound quality between players..

I have the D2, and tried several dvd players using the coax digital outs.. To my surprise, very big sound differences..

For testing, I found that JVC was the worst (very thin and tinny sounding), while pioneer elite sounded smooth and full..

I think that the player when used as a transport, must impact sound on how well it picks up the digital signal..

Not sure what the real cause is, but different players make different sonic impact..
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post #926 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 09:05 PM
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All digital is not the same. I've had several DVD players connected to my D1 and my D2 via coax digital connections, and the differences between them can be quite drastic. Most recently I had the Toshiba HD-A1, Oppo 970HD and the Denon DVD 5910. The 5910 sounds quite a bit different with CDs via coax with a far richer and fuller sound. I would demo this to anyone at anytime (I would do a blind test for you if you like). While I agree that the Anthem is doing all the processing, there is a difference.

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post #927 of 43113 Old 07-19-2006, 09:13 PM
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I guess my first question would be what about HDMI or is this strictly a S/PDIF phenomenon? If there is also a difference between transports over HDMI what to you attribute the difference to?

Tom


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post #928 of 43113 Old 07-20-2006, 12:16 PM
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It would be hard to argue that two totally idental bitstreams would produce different results, but to the extent that one HDMI source may produce different (non-dentical) bitstreams whether because of electromagnetic or conductive emissions, or any level of processing based on differences of components within source components (different routing, processors, quality of connections, bitrate tolerances, etc), it would have the same potential for differences.

Some of the newer components are absolutely astounding in terms of features and flexibility per dollar, but quality still counts even in a digital world.

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post #929 of 43113 Old 07-20-2006, 12:27 PM
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So if anyone can answer my question about the Oppo sounding as good, on par, or 'worse" than the other 'more expensive" DVD players you have with HDMI, I would greatly appreciate it and I'll stop hijacking this thread...

Best,

Stieger

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post #930 of 43113 Old 07-20-2006, 12:32 PM
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(Nathan_R) good question, I wish I had an answer for you!

I have another question for those who have - previously owned the AVM20 or 30, or owned a D1, or listened to the Statement series product prior to buying the AVM 50....

Were you able to hear any differences in the sound quality?

Does the AVM50/30 and 20 use the same series chipset for dacs, processing, etc?

Does the AVM50 and D2 sound that much different even though the D2 has more processing power/chips?

I'm just curious if people can literally hear the difference between 24/96 and the D2's 192/24 processing?

Last thing/question - IF HD-DVD and Blu Ray are capable of 192kHz, why buy a preamp that doesn't do that (ie., buy the 50 vs. the D2) other than price...

Thx all, just trying to ascertain the "real" differences between the 2 processors, and what is more "marketing" than reality...

Best,

Stieger

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