Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 319 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 22Likes
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-20-2007, 05:32 PM
Senior Member
 
abc999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Philippines
Posts: 390
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpillar View Post

I understand what you guys are saying. The players are afordable. I just don't want to get stuck with HD or BD DVDs when/if one or the other format wins out. I chose beta and want to avoid that situation again. Howver, I do appreciate your thoughts.


I just can't imagine using the D2 without HD-dvd and Blu-ray. Its almost 16 months when I plunge into HD and loved every minute of it. I don't even buy DVD's anymore(except for concerts). Its not just the PQ but also the Audio quality, there's no way you can get surround PCM 5.1 from DVD's. Once you get hooked, there's no turning back.
abc999 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-20-2007, 07:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Quote:


I don't even buy DVD's anymore

What's a DVD?
jpillar, one last shot here.
1. If I got the model right, I believe your Pio plasma is a killer display. Don't disrespect it
2. As I left out and others have said, rent. I do. That's why God invented Netflix.
3. Go to Best Buy or somewhere with a 30 day return policy and buy a player.
4. You won't return the player because after watching HD you will become part of the collective. Guaranteed.
5. Starting Nov 2nd, a PS3 can be had for $299 with 5 free discs from SonyStyle. I may have to capitulate and go Blu even though my late mother would be ashamed of me.
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is offline  
Old 10-20-2007, 08:43 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rob Tomlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

5. Starting Nov 2nd, a PS3 can be had for $299 with 6 free discs from SonyStyle. I may have to capitulate and go Blu even though my late mother would be ashamed of me.

Rob Tomlin is offline  
Old 10-21-2007, 05:57 PM
Member
 
TREVLAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 187
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
well many people have helped me here so now it's my turn.\\
The famous blue screen has plegued[sp?] most of us here well my fellow Anthem lovers. [yes I know kinda messed up but whatever]

This is what I did and I "NEVER" get the blue screen. I still get a small lag going from 720p cable to 1080i but blue sceeen be gone.
Go to the AVM50 setup
goto "#12 display"
then "D" main OS color
change this to "GREY"

Let me know if this works for you.
To be honest now that I have done this I never really notice how long the 1080i channels take to "load" just because the blue portion is gone.

give it a try if you wish.

Trev
TREVLAN is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 07:03 AM
Advanced Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I watched my first HDDVD last night that had any appreciable LFE. What a letdown. Has anyone experienced lack of LFE with an XA2 hooked up via HDMI? I went through the Anthems and XA2's settings but didn't see anything amiss.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 08:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
obie_fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: SpaceCoast, FL
Posts: 1,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
I find HD DVD LFE to be all over the map. Which title was it?
What firmware are you running on the D2? There used to be a bug with the HDMI LFE being low.
Make sure you don't have DRC or anything like that turned on in the XA2.
There is a big discussion going on over in the HD DVD Software forum about the Transformers LFE.
obie_fl is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 09:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I find HD DVD LFE to be all over the map. Which title was it?
What firmware are you running on the D2? There used to be a bug with the HDMI LFE being low.
Make sure you don't have DRC or anything like that turned on in the XA2.
There is a big discussion going on over in the HD DVD Software forum about the Transformers LFE.

Yes, it was transformers. My D2 is not that old so I believe it is the 1.12 firmware. I couldn't find any DRC in the XA2 unless I just missed it. I thought that might be the case also.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 09:52 AM
Member
 
Jim E.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 142
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post

Yes, it was transformers. My D2 is not that old so I believe it is the 1.12 firmware. I couldn't find any DRC in the XA2 unless I just missed it. I thought that might be the case also.

No I haven't had that problem with the XA2.

Tell us your settings for both the D2 and XA2.

How did you calibrate your speakers with the D2?

If so did you calibrate it using the room resonance worksheet here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=8953

The more info the better.

Good luck.

Jim
Jim E. is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 10:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

There is a big discussion going on over in the HD DVD Software forum about the Transformers LFE.

Thanks for the heads up, you may be onto something there. It appears that a bunch of discs may be defective in the LFE track.

As far as calibration goes, I had Jeff with accucal set all the levels, I believe he used RTA.

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 10:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
obie_fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: SpaceCoast, FL
Posts: 1,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
I have to run most of my HD DVDs LFE hot but something is definitely going on with the Transformers LFE. I get a lot of LFE out of that title, my Buttkicker goes pretty much nonstop. For whatever reason though the LFE doesn't "feel" very dynamic or go as low as some tracks. I don't get any of those moments where the room pressurizes and I feel it in my chest. I'm not convinced there isn't something screwy with DD+ and LFE going on. I wish I had more time to investigate but I've been extremely busy with my day job.

I'm beginning to wish Anthem would offer a HDMI 1.3 solution with DD+, DTrueHD and DTS-HD MA, I'm not sure Toshiba isn't doing something wrong during the decoding.
obie_fl is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 10:55 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 561 Post(s)
Liked: 980
I wonder if they screwed up the phasing between the LFE channel and the mains on that particular disc? Depending on where you have your crossover set, your sub could be going full blast but the bass getting through to the mains might be cancelling out key portions of it around 50Hz or so. You'd feel the lowest frequency "thuds" but the body of the bass would still sound anemic.

cecca850,
Make sure you have speaker management turned off in the player so that the bass isn't being processed twice -- once in the player and once in your Anthem.

Proper bass setup is probably the toughest thing to get right for a home user. You could easily have some incredibly deep room cancellation "nulls" remaining in your setup at specific frequencies that you wouldn't notice for "normal" LFE tracks but which might knock the feet out from under really aggressive LFE tracks. In addition, you need to pay careful attention as to how the polarity and phase settings are smoothing the transition from the sub to your mains.

Polarity affects the entire frequency range of the sub, whereas phase is more closely associated with the region above and below the crossover. It takes a while to investigate which combo of settings works best with your room, your subwoofer placement, and your choice of crossover. Again, an aggressive track will also have more bass near the crossover and so if you've got things set wrong you'd have the same effect I was thinking the disc itself might be producing -- i.e., bass from the mains cancelling bass from the sub.

--------------------------------------

The HDMI PCM -10dB LFE bug people mentioned in the Anthems last existed in the V1.10 software. It was fixed in the original V1.11 software.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
Old 10-22-2007, 10:56 AM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 561 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I'm beginning to wish Anthem would offer a HDMI 1.3 solution with DD+, DTrueHD and DTS-HD MA, I'm not sure Toshiba isn't doing something wrong during the decoding.

Is the problem only showing up on the XA2 player? I'd be more willing to believe the audio mix is screwed up on the disc.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
Old 10-22-2007, 11:27 AM
Advanced Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Is the problem only showing up on the XA2 player? I'd be more willing to believe the audio mix is screwed up on the disc.
--Bob

The discussion on the HDDVD forum has users with various players having issues, not just the XA2.

Bob, wouldn't phase and crossover issues be exposed when using RTA?

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 11:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
cecaa850's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Beaumont, TX
Posts: 988
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
And while I have your attention, I noticed another oddity when watching Transformers. First, my setup. I have 4 amps driving my 7 speakers. I use 1 channel of one amp for my center channel and the remaining speakers split the other 3 amps. The fronts are one 1 amp, surrounds on another, rears on another and the center on the last. While I was watching the movie, I got consistantly more of a signal sent to my rears than my side surrounds. I would have expected just the opposite. Now I wonder if it is a set up issue or the disc? The only thing I found in the Anthem that would affect this was in the setup screen under 6.1 surround/rear ADC??? I don't remember the exact screen name. Anyways I have them set to "off" or "no". Can you think of anything else that would swap the rear and side info?

120@20@14'
cecaa850 is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 12:26 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 561 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post

And while I have your attention, I noticed another oddity when watching Transformers. First, my setup. I have 4 amps driving my 7 speakers. I use 1 channel of one amp for my center channel and the remaining speakers split the other 3 amps. The fronts are one 1 amp, surrounds on another, rears on another and the center on the last. While I was watching the movie, I got consistantly more of a signal sent to my rears than my side surrounds. I would have expected just the opposite. Now I wonder if it is a set up issue or the disc? The only thing I found in the Anthem that would affect this was in the setup screen under 6.1 surround/rear ADC??? I don't remember the exact screen name. Anyways I have them set to "off" or "no". Can you think of anything else that would swap the rear and side info?

The setting you are referring to is certainly one thing that could cause side and rear surround channels to swap. It is:

Setup / ADC Audio Output / 6ch REVERSE SUB-REAR and it should be set to "NO" for normal operation.

See Section 3.7 of the manual.

In that same menu Copy Sur to Rear should also be set to "NO". Turning this on wouldn't swap things, but would duplicate the side surround info into the rears and, depending on how you have things balanced, that might sound like too much Rear channel audio.

Also, for your input definition, make sure you haven't put something strange into Setup / Source Setup / HDMI 6-channel Map. That item should only be used for setting things up for DVD-Audio.

And of course, you need to verify that your speakers are wired correctly.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
Old 10-22-2007, 12:29 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 561 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post

The discussion on the HDDVD forum has users with various players having issues, not just the XA2.

Bob, wouldn't phase and crossover issues be exposed when using RTA?

Yes, any bass analysis system would let you see phase and polarity problems in your setup. Of course that won't tell you if there's a problem in the audio track on some particular disc itself.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
Old 10-22-2007, 12:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 95
No Transformers LFE issues here with an Tosh A2 & D2.
While certainly not the most prominent or overblown LFE, there are several scenes that cause my clothes to flap.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 12:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
obie_fl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: SpaceCoast, FL
Posts: 1,951
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Is the problem only showing up on the XA2 player? I'd be more willing to believe the audio mix is screwed up on the disc.
--Bob

It appears all the players have been mentioned I'm on a A1 myself.

The problem is all the reviews gave the disk 5 stars for audio. I've asked in the insiders thread if it is possible the reviewers got a different disk then the production disks.
obie_fl is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 05:35 PM
Member
 
mr_fitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Does anyone use the D2 to convert and output 1080p/24 for regular dvd's or should it only be used for BD and HD-DVD? I tried this conversion when hooked up to a Panny 1000 and every now and again the picture would speed up and I would have to skip back or pause for it to be normal again.

Thanks

John
mr_fitz is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 08:24 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
rudolpht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Boxborough, MA, USA
Posts: 7,566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by TREVLAN View Post

well many people have helped me here so now it's my turn.\\
The famous blue screen has plegued[sp?] most of us here well my fellow Anthem lovers. [yes I know kinda messed up but whatever]

This is what I did and I "NEVER" get the blue screen. I still get a small lag going from 720p cable to 1080i but blue sceeen be gone.
Go to the AVM50 setup
goto "#12 display"
then "D" main OS color
change this to "GREY"

Let me know if this works for you.
To be honest now that I have done this I never really notice how long the 1080i channels take to "load" just because the blue portion is gone.

give it a try if you wish.

Trev

Tried it. No perceived difference in delay except it's a long blue followed by a long black delay in my case.

That said I'm back to 1080i hybrid mode.

Tim

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
rudolpht is offline  
Old 10-22-2007, 08:56 PM
Read the FAQ!
 
Bob Pariseau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,951
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 561 Post(s)
Liked: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_fitz View Post

Does anyone use the D2 to convert and output 1080p/24 for regular dvd's or should it only be used for BD and HD-DVD? I tried this conversion when hooked up to a Panny 1000 and every now and again the picture would speed up and I would have to skip back or pause for it to be normal again.

Thanks

John

480i/60 and 1080i/60 conversion to 1080p/24 output for film based content is not working yet. Anthem says they are working on it. The V1.12 (AKA V1.2) software seemed to be getting pretty close for 1080i/60 to 1080p/24 conversion but the 480i input side is still not close.

For regular DVDs and for SDTV/HDTV viewing, you should not use 1080p/24 output from the Anthem at this time, even if you are watching film based content.

For HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, if the player will put out 1080p/24 when playing a high definition disc, then you can send that to the Anthem and have the Anthem send 1080p/24 to your TV. This is only useful if your TV will accept 1080p/24 as input *AND* will alter it's display refresh rate to a multiple of 24 -- usually either 48 or 72 frames per second. If the TV accepts 1080p/24 but actually displays it as 1080p/60 you should probably stick with the simpler path: 1080i/60 from the player, producing 1080p/60 from the Anthem, displayed unchanged by the TV at 1080p/60.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
Bob Pariseau is online now  
Old 10-23-2007, 10:28 AM
Member
 
mr_fitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

480i/60 and 1080i/60 conversion to 1080p/24 output for film based content is not working yet. Anthem says they are working on it. The V1.12 (AKA V1.2) software seemed to be getting pretty close for 1080i/60 to 1080p/24 conversion but the 480i input side is still not close.

For regular DVDs and for SDTV/HDTV viewing, you should not use 1080p/24 output from the Anthem at this time, even if you are watching film based content.

For HD-DVD and Blu-Ray, if the player will put out 1080p/24 when playing a high definition disc, then you can send that to the Anthem and have the Anthem send 1080p/24 to your TV. This is only useful if your TV will accept 1080p/24 as input *AND* will alter it's display refresh rate to a multiple of 24 -- usually either 48 or 72 frames per second. If the TV accepts 1080p/24 but actually displays it as 1080p/60 you should probably stick with the simpler path: 1080i/60 from the player, producing 1080p/60 from the Anthem, displayed unchanged by the TV at 1080p/60.
--Bob

Thanks Bob
mr_fitz is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 04:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Early on in the HDM life cycle we were told that decoding in the player was "the" way to go.
Now, players that output HD audio bitstreams and receivers that accept and decode it are becoming more prevalent.
Several credible members are reporting that receiver decoded HD AQ is noticeably superior to player decoded HD AQ.
Has the D2 now reached it's first technical dead end by lacking this feature or the ability to upgrade to bitstream decoding?

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 05:14 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rob Tomlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Early on in the HDM life cycle we were told that decoding in the player was "the" way to go.
Now, players that output HD audio bitstreams and receivers that accept and decode it are becoming more prevalent.
Several credible members are reporting that receiver decoded HD AQ is noticeably superior to player decoded HD AQ.
Has the D2 now reached it's first technical dead end by lacking this feature or the ability to upgrade to bitstream decoding?

I would LOVE to hear (no pun intended) the theory as to why a receiver decoding the HD Audio would be better than the player doing it.

Who are these "credible members" that you refer to?
Rob Tomlin is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 05:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
cpcat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Vidalia, GA
Posts: 6,471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I would LOVE to hear (no pun intended) the theory as to why a receiver decoding the HD Audio would be better than the player doing it.


Better decoder maybe?

It reminds me a little of the whole 1080p argument. Most people who argued that 1080p resolution wouldn't make a difference had 720p sets. Now, 1080p sets have become standard. Whether they make a difference for some can still be debated if you consider screen size/viewing distance. Assuming HD discs make it, it's inevitable that bitstream output and outboard decoding will eventually become standard.
cpcat is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 06:22 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
rudolpht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Boxborough, MA, USA
Posts: 7,566
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I would LOVE to hear (no pun intended) the theory as to why a receiver decoding the HD Audio would be better than the player doing it.

Who are these "credible members" that you refer to?

Since some players (Pio 95) are capable of passing but not decoding a particular format, it is by definition useful/valuable to have the ability to pass to a preamp/receiver. Whether the same CODEC is different on board vs off board may be subjective (and probably should be in a different thread as it seems every receiver thread is plagued by this divisive contention (true or not).

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
STABILITY + Superior audio (SC09-TX) + Incredible picture (VPL-VW200) + good integration.
rudolpht is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 08:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Milt99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Of California
Posts: 5,169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked: 95
Sorry, I wasn't trying to be devisive or to dis the D2, just posing a question for the learned members of the thread.
I own one and love it but eventually almost everything hits a technological dead-end especially pre-pros\
eceivers.
As far as credible members, I consider Robert George in that category.
Now whether a Denon receiver doing the decoding is better than player decoding combined with the D2's upsampling is a good question.
It does seem to be the trend especially regarding DTS-HD\\MA decoding.
Personally I sometimes wish that DTS was not around to muddy the waters or that DTS decoding was mandatory for all players.
If this post is too OT I will delete it at anyone's request, no problem.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

Milt99 is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 09:04 PM
gdc
Senior Member
 
gdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Kirkland, WA
Posts: 443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be devisive or to dis the D2, just posing a question for the learned members of the thread.
I own one and love it but eventually almost everything hits a technological dead-end especially pre-pros\
eceivers.
As far as credible members, I consider Robert George in that category.
Now whether a Denon receiver doing the decoding is better than player decoding combined with the D2's upsampling is a good question.
It does seem to be the trend especially regarding DTS-HD\\MA decoding.
Personally I sometimes wish that DTS was not around to muddy the waters or that DTS decoding was mandatory for all players.
If this post is too OT I will delete it at anyone's request, no problem.

This is a legitimate question, but could get OT easily.

I'm very skeptical that a properly implemented decoder in a player can be distinguished by any method from the same decoder properly implemented in a receiver. If we were talking analog audio - well, there's plenty of confounding variables that keep the snake oil peddlers in business. But as I have a long working history with digital audio, it just doesn't make sense.

If someone can explain the conditions where a difference can occur, then I might be alarmed. Until then, I'm confident in the direction that Anthem has chosen.

- Gordon

We don"t see things as they are, we see things as we are. - Anais Nin
gdc is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 09:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Rob Tomlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 13,752
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gdc View Post

This is a legitimate question, but could get OT easily.

I'm very skeptical that a properly implemented decoder in a player can be distinguished by any method from the same decoder properly implemented in a receiver. If we were talking analog audio - well, there's plenty of confounding variables that keep the snake oil peddlers in business. But as I have a long working history with digital audio, it just doesn't make sense.

If someone can explain the conditions where a difference can occur, then I might be alarmed. Until then, I'm confident in the direction that Anthem has chosen.

NAILED IT!

Thanks.
Rob Tomlin is offline  
Old 10-23-2007, 11:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MSmith83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,673
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Now whether a Denon receiver doing the decoding is better than player decoding combined with the D2's upsampling is a good question.

You also have to factor in that the Denon does its own up-sampling only to PCM signals via AL24+, or Advanced AL24 in the case of the Denon 4308. However, I highly doubt AL24 is making the sound any worse. In my experience, its effect only lowers the noise floor for whatever DAC-related noise there is.

I've done extensive testing with legacy CODECs using a Denon 4306 as a pre/pro, and an HD-A2 and PS3 as players via HDMI. I haven't noticed one bit of difference between in-player and in-receiver decoding after volume matching. With DTS tracks on the PS3, I didn't even have to adjust the volume control to get the same output. The CODECs ranged anywhere from 448 kbps DD to 1.5 Mbps DTS.

For this reason, I have a hard time believing that in-player and in-receiver decoding sound any different from each other with respect to advanced CODECs in a properly configured setup. I would think that this is especially the case when using a D2. Technically speaking, how could one decoder's output sound different from another decoder's output?

With respect to the new formats, I would link any degradation in sound quality via in-player decoding to an improper player configuration, or a player doing something screwy in its mixing stage. This is assuming that the audio processor handles both un-decoded bitstreams and PCM signals correctly.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that Robert George didn't say that in-player decoding was much worse, just that he noticed a little less surround channel separation. I don't want his findings to be taken out of context, as he made it clear that in-receiver decoding isn't in and of itself worth doing an upgrade.

Anyway, I apologize for hijacking this fine thread. I would certainly have a D2 if I could afford it.
MSmith83 is offline  
 

Tags
Receivers Amplifiers
Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off