Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 373 - AVS Forum
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post #11161 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:06 PM
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Do any of you play 2 channel Music with a good CD player through the D2's analog bypass? I was wondering how good the sound quality of 2 channel music is with a Statement D2.
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post #11162 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:09 PM
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I suspect it will be easy enough to try it both ways, too! I can easily disable the filters on the Velodyne and let the ARC-1 do the whole thing for comparison. A/B comparison will be a bit tough though, since I use split cross-overs in the Anthem right now (different crossover for sub and mains). But I don't use the Room Response filter in the Anthem, so that's about the only thing standing in the way.

It really comes down to this I suspect: If your bass response happens to ALREADY be perfect, does that free up the ARC-1 to put more corrective power into frequencies higher than the bass region?

The "double processing" thing is a tough call, since at those frequencies I'm thinking the more power you put into fixing room response the better -- i.e., left over room response is more of a problem than processing artifacts resulting from the double processing.

In any event, it is likely still true that improving sub placement or adding room treatments to reduce room bass response problems is still a win -- even if you don't ALSO add in sub filtering as in the Velodyne subs.

I think what I'll do is see how close the ARC-1 gets to the desired target curve with and without the Velodyne filters engaged. That may be the easiest test to see if the Velodyne filters are making it easier for the ARC-1 to do its thing across the entire frequency range.
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post #11163 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Do any of you play 2 channel Music with a good CD player through the D2's analog bypass? I was wondering how good the sound quality of 2 channel music is with a Statement D2.

It is excellent. For some music I am using a combo CD Transport/DAC (Audiomat Tango 2.5) with good results. When I don't deeper bass for stereo I remove the bypass and go through the Processor to finish with a 2.1 setup. Lot's of flexibility.
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post #11164 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Do any of you play 2 channel Music with a good CD player through the D2's analog bypass? I was wondering how good the sound quality of 2 channel music is with a Statement D2.

Yep, I use a Meridian G08 with Balanced XLR input into the D2, and then the D2 is in Analog Direct mode for this input. The sound quality is outstanding. I blame the combination of the player, the amp and the speakers (and the D2 for not mucking with it of course!).

-Brian
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post #11165 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I suspect it will be easy enough to try it both ways, too! I can easily disable the filters on the Velodyne and let the ARC-1 do the whole thing for comparison. A/B comparison will be a bit tough though, since I use split cross-overs in the Anthem right now (different crossover for sub and mains). But I don't use the Room Response filter in the Anthem, so that's about the only thing standing in the way.

It really comes down to this I suspect: If your bass response happens to ALREADY be perfect, does that free up the ARC-1 to put more corrective power into frequencies higher than the bass region?

The "double processing" thing is a tough call, since at those frequencies I'm thinking the more power you put into fixing room response the better -- i.e., left over room response is more of a problem than processing artifacts resulting from the double processing.

In any event, it is likely still true that improving sub placement or adding room treatments to reduce room bass response problems is still a win -- even if you don't ALSO add in sub filtering as in the Velodyne subs.

I think what I'll do is see how close the ARC-1 gets to the desired target curve with and without the Velodyne filters engaged. That may be the easiest test to see if the Velodyne filters are making it easier for the ARC-1 to do its thing across the entire frequency range.
--Bob

There is nothing like experiencing with different combination. Tastes are different too. As stated in previous post I am first an audio maniac and I really don't like when too much processing mess-up the image and soundstage. This is where the D2 shine.

My next step is to work more on speakers' placement (mainly the sub) to try to reduce some of the issues at the source. The ARC Software measurements graph help investigating where the issues are. The bloody REL B2 being 83 pounds will be a lot of fun to move around.
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post #11166 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

It is excellent. For some music I am using a combo CD Transport/DAC (Audiomat Tango 2.5) with good results. When I don't deeper bass for stereo I remove the bypass and go through the Processor to finish with a 2.1 setup. Lot's of flexibility.

Thanks. I so glad to hear that. Next week I'm getting a D2.
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post #11167 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ManWithAPlan View Post

Yep, I use a Meridian G08 with Balanced XLR input into the D2, and then the D2 is in Analog Direct mode for this input. The sound quality is outstanding. I blame the combination of the player, the amp and the speakers (and the D2 for not mucking with it of course!).

-Brian

Glad to hear this Brian. Thanks for your reply.
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post #11168 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Thanks. I so glad to hear that. Next week I'm getting a D2.

Welcome to the club.

Is it one with the ARC included?
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post #11169 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Do any of you play 2 channel Music with a good CD player through the D2's analog bypass? I was wondering how good the sound quality of 2 channel music is with a Statement D2.

I listen to 2 channel music using a modded Roksan CD player and Transparent interconnects. The sound quality is excellent when using the D2/P5 combo.

I have also tried using the Roksan as a transport by sending the signal by coax to the D2 to allow the D2 to do upsampling to 192Khz and D/A processing. I struggle to hear the difference between the 2 set ups.

Does this mean a) the processing capability of the D2 is stereophile quality? or b) the processing of the Roksan is equivilent to the D2? The answer does not really matter because, as I said, the sound is excellent.
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post #11170 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Do any of you play 2 channel Music with a good CD player through the D2's analog bypass? I was wondering how good the sound quality of 2 channel music is with a Statement D2.

For the performance and price of the D2, having a first-class "Do no harm" pre-amp thrown in is the creamy icing on a very nice cupcake

For all of it's processing prowess, I would not own the D2 if it did not sound as good as it does to me.
To be fair, there are other options but none that come close overall to the D2 for the price.
Feel good about your purchase, you made a wise choice.

 

It ain't ignorance causes so much trouble; it's folks knowing so much that ain't so

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post #11171 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

For the performance and price of the D2, having a first-class "Do no harm" pre-amp thrown in is the creamy icing on a very nice cupcake

For all of it's processing prowess, I would not own the D2 if it did not sound as good as it does.
Feel good about your purchase, you made a wise choice.


I see that the reverse way. I bought the D2 first for its sound as a pre/pro. I was hesitating between the D2 and the Bryston SP2. Gee did I pick the right one.....During my test, the SP2 analogue pass-through was a little bit more transparent. Meanwhile, everything else is 3 generation behind compared to the D2. Bryston is not planning on delivering the SP3 (the HDMI version of their SP) before at least 12 months. By than my D2 will have around 5000 hrs under the hood!
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post #11172 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Someone mentioned a price of $300.
I'm not knocking Anthem but in the past, the early leaks on their pricing have always been cheaper than the reality.
My guess is ARC will cost $400 not $300.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

My local Anthem Statement dealer just got a price from Anthem for the ARC-1 upgrade for a D2.

$499
--Bob

^^^^^^^^^

 

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post #11173 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 05:43 PM
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Welcome to the club.

Is it one with the ARC included?

Yes, it's suppose to be. The dealer just got it in. Install Thursday.
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post #11174 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 07:37 PM
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Yes, once again Bob has pointed yet another newbee in the right direction.

I really don't know quite what I did right, except to assign the right input/output settings, and 'presto'---a great picture via HDMI, no shocking pink, no macro-green.

An unexpected and really wonderful result is now my standard broadcast satellite feeds fill the entire screen with some apparently nice upconversion and it looks fantastic.
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post #11175 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 07:51 PM
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With all the D2's processing power, is it not possible for Anthem to implement the hi-end audio codecs (Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master) in software such that the D2 is used to decode the bitstream signal from Blue-Ray/HD- DVD's?

The D2 already has HDMI1.1 capability (which I am assuming has the bandwidth for these lossless signals) i.e the hardware, what else would be needed other than the requisite software? Or, is their a further piece of hardware required that I am not aware of?
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post #11176 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Kruginator View Post

With all the D2's processing power, is it not possible for Anthem to implement the hi-end audio codecs (Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master) in software such that the D2 is used to decode the bitstream signal from Blue-Ray/HD- DVD's?

The D2 already has HDMI1.1 capability (which I am assuming has the bandwidth for these lossless signals) i.e the hardware, what else would be needed other than the requisite software? Or, is their a further piece of hardware required that I am not aware of?

HDMI V1.1 is not configurable to handle the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA bitstreams. It is both a licensing thing, and also the low level code for dealing with those high bandwidth bitstreams embedded in the HDMI video stream.

That means that changing the D2 to accept those for input would, at the very least, require changing out the chip set that implements the HDMI connection.

In addition, to do more than mere lip-service to HDMI V1.3 would require significant changes in the audio and video data paths throughout the D2 hardware. This would be pretty pointless right now since there's no content that could take advantage of it. Of course there are plenty of HDMI V1.3 products that do just that (lip service) in order to boast the HDMI V1.3 label, but I don't think Anthem feels the need to go that route so long as they can sell D2s faster than they can make them.

So the bottom line is that an HDMI V1.3 product would require a hardware changeout (not just new software), and would probably involve enough of a hardware changeout that it really should be a new product.

A more pressing problem for the D2 is that it can only accept 5.1 channel PCM input instead of 7.1. (The same is true for multi-channel analog audio input.) Unfortunately, that too will require a hardware changeout, and not a trivial one either. Due to the content out there now, this too is at the margins of interest, but is likely to become more interesting sooner than HDMI V1.3's fluff.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #11177 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Unclejeff View Post

Yes, once again Bob has pointed yet another newbee in the right direction.

I really don't know quite what I did right, except to assign the right input/output settings, and 'presto'---a great picture via HDMI, no shocking pink, no macro-green.

An unexpected and really wonderful result is now my standard broadcast satellite feeds fill the entire screen with some apparently nice upconversion and it looks fantastic.

As I like to say, "Suddenly! As if by logic!...."

(grin!)

Glad it's working for you now!
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #11178 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Yes, it's suppose to be. The dealer just got it in. Install Thursday.

If the dealer just got it from the factory, then it will be a new unit, with the latest software, and the ARC-1.

You lucky dog!
--Bob

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post #11179 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 10:27 PM
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If the dealer just got it from the factory, then it will be a new unit, with the latest software, and the ARC-1.

You lucky dog!
--Bob

I'm excited Bob.
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post #11180 of 43023 Old 02-08-2008, 10:31 PM
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If I wanted to buy a lower cost Blu-ray player I could sell in about 5 months, what would you buy to hook up to the D2? I want to eventually get the next generation Pioneer Elite Blu-ray which will be out this summer. I've been told everything from the Samsung 1400 to the Sony 300 to the PS3. Any opinions? Or should I wait about 5 months till it comes out? It will be a tough wait but I hear the D2 does make most standard DVD players look great.
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post #11181 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 05:02 AM
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A more pressing problem for the D2 is that it can only accept 5.1 channel PCM input instead of 7.1. (The same is true for multi-channel analog audio input.) Unfortunately, that too will require a hardware changeout, and not a trivial one either. Due to the content out there now, this too is at the margins of interest, but is likely to become more interesting sooner than HDMI V1.3's fluff.

Since the main problem for that are the two motorola DSP(Freescale now?), a "simple" DSP board update (like the AVM20 had, to support ... I don't recall what though) should do the trick. (Plus some software of course)
I asked Anthem in the past but I got the clear message it was not at the time their prioority. Maybe it will change as more and more title are in 7.1
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post #11182 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

If I wanted to buy a lower cost Blu-ray player I could sell in about 5 months, what would you buy to hook up to the D2? I want to eventually get the next generation Pioneer Elite Blu-ray which will be out this summer. I've been told everything from the Samsung 1400 to the Sony 300 to the PS3. Any opinions? Or should I wait about 5 months till it comes out? It will be a tough wait but I hear the D2 does make most standard DVD players look great.

PS3 all the way.
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post #11183 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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post #11184 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

If I wanted to buy a lower cost Blu-ray player I could sell in about 5 months, what would you buy to hook up to the D2? I want to eventually get the next generation Pioneer Elite Blu-ray which will be out this summer. I've been told everything from the Samsung 1400 to the Sony 300 to the PS3. Any opinions? Or should I wait about 5 months till it comes out? It will be a tough wait but I hear the D2 does make most standard DVD players look great.

The only Blu-Ray player that has any chance of retaining any resale value in that time frame is, I think, the PS3.

Things are moving too fast in the standalone players for current players to generate any resale interest from folks likely to buy Blu-Ray this summer. And any remaining stock of current players will also likely be drastically price reduced.

I don't think the PS3 is the best player, or even the cheapest. Just the only one likely to have any resale value. You will have to deal with it's oddball remote control situation of course.
--Bob

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post #11185 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

HDMI V1.1 is not configurable to handle the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA bitstreams. It is both a licensing thing, and also the low level code for dealing with those high bandwidth bitstreams embedded in the HDMI video stream.

That means that changing the D2 to accept those for input would, at the very least, require changing out the chip set that implements the HDMI connection.

In addition, to do more than mere lip-service to HDMI V1.3 would require significant changes in the audio and video data paths throughout the D2 hardware. This would be pretty pointless right now since there's no content that could take advantage of it. Of course there are plenty of HDMI V1.3 products that do just that (lip service) in order to boast the HDMI V1.3 label, but I don't think Anthem feels the need to go that route so long as they can sell D2s faster than they can make them.

So the bottom line is that an HDMI V1.3 product would require a hardware changeout (not just new software), and would probably involve enough of a hardware changeout that it really should be a new product.

A more pressing problem for the D2 is that it can only accept 5.1 channel PCM input instead of 7.1. (The same is true for multi-channel analog audio input.) Unfortunately, that too will require a hardware changeout, and not a trivial one either. Due to the content out there now, this too is at the margins of interest, but is likely to become more interesting sooner than HDMI V1.3's fluff.
--Bob

Thanks Bob.

I know from previous posts, the whole HDMI v1.1 vs 1.3 has been discussed as it relates to the D2 on the audio side, and Bob, you confirmed what I thought the answer might be with regards to trying to enable 1.3 audio functionality via a potential software upgrade.

So, while on the subject of HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3 and hardware upgrades, and extending the discussion to video, is the Gennum VXP processor (now sold to Sigma) capable of being used to exploit the video functionality of HDMI v1.3? I understand the VXP is a 10-bit processor in the current 8-bit environment, while HDMI 1.3 handles 10-, 12- and 16-bit i.e. Deep Color or whatever you want to call it. I am bearing in mind that availability of material at these bitrates is a different subject altogether.

The reason for asking is as follows:
1. Marantz is using the VXP processor in a HDMI v1.3 compliant projector http://ca.marantz.com/Products/2009.asp. So I am assuming that the VXP processor is 1.3 compliant.
2. While I understand the hardware limitations of the HDMI v1.1 vs 1.3 on the audio side, if Anthem were to design a 1.3 compliant D2, could it use the existing VXP processor thereby potentially offering the 1.3 conversion as an upgrade to existing D2 owners? My logic being is that the VXP processor (a major selling point, and one of the reasons I bought the D2) is already 1.3 compliant/capable if 1. above is valid. Hence from a marketing perspective, Anthem could offer the 1.3 upgrade at a lower price than buying a whole new D2. Maybe this falls in to the wishful thing dept?

I am comfortable with the 1.1 vs 1.3 debate as it pertains to the D2, so this is more about setting expectations and planning for the future a few years hence.
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post #11186 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 05:56 AM
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Well you have to change out the video board anyway since that's where the HDMI stuff is implemented I believe, so there's no real point in worrying about whether the VXP would still be used on any such new board.

The problem with answering such questions is that HDMI V1.3 has lots of optional features. All the higher bandwidth stuff is optional for example. So you could use essentially an HDMI V1.1 audio/video design with HDMI V1.3 driver chips and all the optional stuff disabled and call yourself HDMI V1.3.

And going through the engineering effort to "do it right" is kind of pointless for the next couple years since whatever you try to do will be content limited. Oh there's minor stuff like the device control stuff and responding to audio delay requests from the display, but the video side is just fluff right now.

The only thing that would drive Anthem to have to do it faster would be if player manufacturers decide to stop making players with internal lossless decoders. And that doesn't look likely.
--Bob

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post #11187 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The only Blu-Ray player that has any chance of retaining any resale value in that time frame is, I think, the PS3.

Things are moving too fast in the standalone players for current players to generate any resale interest from folks likely to buy Blu-Ray this summer. And any remaining stock of current players will also likely be drastically price reduced.

I don't think the PS3 is the best player, or even the cheapest. Just the only one likely to have any resale value. You will have to deal with it's oddball remote control situation of course.
--Bob

I agree with you, Stand Alone blu-Ray player have no resales value. Thanks to the profile mess.
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post #11188 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 06:04 AM
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New ARC-1 info

You where faster than me on that one
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post #11189 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I don't think the PS3 is the best player, or even the cheapest. Just the only one likely to have any resale value. You will have to deal with it's oddball remote control situation of course.
--Bob

I guess this is slightly off topic here, but I'm curious: resale value aside, what IS better than the PS3? I'm not challenging this so much as very curious. I love the PS3's speed and navigation and upgrade ability, but I have a very large screen and am seeing a lot of noise that I've been wondering if another player would have improved picture quality.

Anyone?
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post #11190 of 43023 Old 02-09-2008, 07:11 AM
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Hi friends,
I thought I would post briefly about my ARC-1 impressions. I run a 7.1 system that includes Paradigm Reference all the way around and two Martin Logan subs. Taming bass has been a lifelong mission and the ARC-1 has done an extraordinary job of that. My home theatre room is designed to be just that, long with no windows or obstructions but the room is not huge and the ceilings are only about 7' as it is in the basement of my bungalow.

I am primarily a music lover however my system also doubles for home theatre as movies are almost as important to me. I was (before Anthem) a 2 channel music guy but the AL-music setting changed my mind about that. I have previously owned an AVM2, AVM20 and now the D2. I do virtually all my music listening in this mode.

As for the ARC-1, I was on the beta testing group and went through various incarnations but will only comment on the actual finished product.

The laptop program and subsequent software installation are easy and seem to work fine. I have had instances of it failing to initialize but a second try has usually worked. (I use a laptop with an actual serial port as I have had a lot of problems with USB-serial adaptors).

The process is simple and the entire measurement-upload takes under 1/2 hour. This is for the automated procedure not the manual one.

After installation I was shocked at how my settings changed from where I had things previous. I used the Radio Shack SPL in the past and thought I was doing OK...the ARC-1 DRAMATICALLY changed my sound.
Bass is more subtle, I can define actual lower register notes being played with great clairty. The movies also BOOM only when they need to. I should note, based on a previous post, I listen to all things FLAT, meaning bass and treble are on defeat and not used. I won't get into any IMHO stuff here, this is just the way I listen.

I noticed also a fantastic improvement on the mid-range in music production. I have my fave CD's that I use to test my system and I actually noticed a couple of subtleties that I had never heard before!!!!!

The imaging of the "vocal centre" also seemed to be improved for me.

I think a lot of these improvements had to do with crossovers which I always struggle with but that is what the ARC-1 is supposed to do right? This makes setting up your room a snap and as with all Anthem product - does it right!

I should think that the ARC-1 will be yet another improvement on the D2 that is going to put it way ahead of the competition. If you are a current D2 owner, I can't imagine not having this. I just want to keep "rediscovering" my CD/SACD/DVD-A collection - it made that much difference.

/\\/\\
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