Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 397 - AVS Forum
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post #11881 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:08 AM
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Would there be an interest in a limited comparison of the D2 (no ARC) with the new Denon AVP (similar price)?
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post #11882 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:16 AM
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Joe,
I'd like to see a comparison. There's almost always something useful to learn when comparing high end products.
--Bob

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post #11883 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


Having taken your Velodyne SMS-1 out of the equation, you then did what? Set each sub's internal phase and polarity controls to 0? Both of my subs (ML Depths) are at the back of the room in opposite corners. They are polarity inverted and crossover disabled. Their internal volumes are both set the same.

Depending on your room's actual response, and the luck of how much your subs are actually in phase and volume balanced, the response to running multiple subs may be better or worse.

Consider the extreme cases with just 2 subs: If one sub's internal volume is nearly off and the other is nearly at max then the results from running ARC will be as if you only had that second sub. ARC, run normally, can't detect or change the bad setting for the first sub.True which is why I have both set the same, whether it is the right thing I am not sure but I am relying on my ears as the final judge. I have experimented relentlessly with bass to get it to what I perceive as "right for my ears" and interestingly enough when the ARC was finished my x-over settings all around were close to where I had them but not the same.
The other thing that was interesting was when I calibrated my setup to the internal D2 test tones with an SPL meter all of my speakers seem to be setting to a higher volume than when the ARC was done. The outcome of this is I now run my system at a higher volume "on the dial" but I feel less fatigue and sense greater depth and imaging. I am not an electronic engineer, just a stereo hobbyist and this development I found very interesting. Not sure why the internal test tones and SPL would have been determining that I set volumes so much higher

Although the D2 is a very sophisticated piece of equipment I think the ARC's success should lie in the ability of a novice to plug everything in and let ARC do it's thing similar to the Audyssey experience. I applied that rationale of thinking to my beta testing trying to minimize "tweaking" to see if it could deliver. In my belief, the ARC should do what the SMS-1 is doing and the graph I looked at that the ARC provided on my sub response looked very similar to what I had gotten after playing with the SMS-1. The beauty of the ARC is I did not have to do the calculation, it did it for me.

In many situations my set-up is elaborate but there are a lot of users on here that certainly have much more gear. It will be interesting to see what happens with some of them.
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post #11884 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:35 AM
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drmabuse,
Yes it will be interesting to see how things work over the range of users we have posting here. Some of the folks with multiple subs are combining different subwoofer models, which will add its own wrinkle.

As for your volume difference, it may be nothing more than that room correction systems like this work much better if they are reducing peaks rather than boosting dips. Automated systems will have that bias built in. That means they naturally reduce overall volume a bit.

And of course there is the common effect that good audio is less tiring at higher volumes so it feels better to crank things up a bit when the audio is better.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your report! I want my ARC!
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #11885 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmabuse View Post

I assume your subs are running out of sub1/2 from the D2

What is Sub 1/2?

I'll have to look in my manual to see what Sub 1/2 is????
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post #11886 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

What is Sub 1/2?

I'll have to look in my manual to see what Sub 1/2 is????

There are 2 sub outs on the back of the D2 and you can configure inside the setup to use both.

/\\/\\
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post #11887 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


! I want my ARC!
--Bob

Me to - where is IT?

Last time I tried ordering --- I couldn't.

I wait until you guys start getting yours
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post #11888 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmabuse View Post

There are 2 sub outs on the back of the D2 and you can configure inside the setup to use both.

/\\/\\

WELL there you go - A Person who READS the manual

I will investigate that.
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post #11889 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

WELL there you go - A Person who READS the manual

I will investigate that.

There are actually FOUR sub outputs in the D2 (2 RCA and 2 XLR). They carry the identical signal except for the standard 6dB volume difference between RCA and XLR outputs. That is, there is only one set of sub controls in the D2 and those control affect the output on all 4 of those jacks identically, and the same source content is sent to all 4 of those jacks.

The Setup item for 1 sub vs. 2 subs simply has the affect of lowering the calibration volume level to account for the extra driver in the room. It is merely a convenience item. It doesn't cause the jacks to carry distinct, or separately controllable bass signals for example.
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post #11890 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 11:04 AM
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I also have 2 subs and what bob says is generally correct as usual. I set all sub volumes to about 1/3 volume to start with. Turn the second sub off. Disable the sub;s crossovers and set the D2 phase and polarity to zero. I then use my SMS to phase the first sub with the left front speaker to reach the highest output with the phase control of the sub 1. Readjust your volume on the first sub if necessary. now turn on sub 2 and using the SMS 1 adjust the phase on the second sub for the highest and smoothest output. I don't use the EQ part of the SMS1 , I just use it as a visual so I can see the response. You can also get very close using the same method with a Radio Shack meter, however you need 2 people to do it in a reasonable amount of time. This info was sent to me by SVS and it works superbly. If you want a little more chest throbbing bass use your SMS to bump it up 3 or 4 db between 40 to 60 hz.

Hope this helps.
Dmorse
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post #11891 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 11:35 AM
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I trust Bob, so here goes...

First let me say, both of these are mine, in my place, with my stuff. Yes there is probably some psychology involved (the Denon being the latest purchased and all), but I will try to compare them the best I can.

The room, well sucks. It's huge (by my standards), vaulted, and has no acoustical treatments (other than carpet, couch and curtains). The bass is out of control and needs a lot of work. Plus the room opens into the rest of the house (though small), so I'm sure that affects the sound - you have been notified

The equipment - not bad, but nothing like what some of you have. The mains are Infinity Prelude MTS (and the surrounds are older less capable Infinity speakers). The Amps are Acoustic Reality Ear-2 for the mains, and an Outlaw 7500 (XLR) for the center and surrounds (so that's 300W for the mains and 200W for the surrounds). Cables are all cheap (though XLR to all the amps and very large gauge bi-wired for the fronts). The processors are of course the D2 and the AVP. I have an Oppo 970, PS-3, Pioneer HD1 / Denon 2500, Toshiba XA2, a Denon 3910, and a Pioneer DVL-90. The TV is a Sony Q006 (1080i only).

Me - I have decent eyesight, and can see quite a few artifacts - slightly above average let's say (I don't do films for a living - nor music). I have decent ears, but am not as critical as some (notice the above cheap cables).

On to the fun (and this should be fun yes?).

Weight - My *** that Denon is heavy. At least Anthem used some aluminum in there to hold the weight down. It is huge too. I had to put it on top of my apparently smallish stand (scary). It does not have the ear problem the D2 has (made it hard to get in and out), but goes so far back none of the cables would fit (HDMI). Another reason it went on top. Oh, and it's just as bad about heat output (I'm a fiend about keeping temperatures down - must be my EE background).

Video, this is complex, as there are two things at odds here. The Denon by default is really not much more than a HDMI switch. This is actually good (in a way). Believe it or not, the video looks much better, and there are fewer issues. Think about that for a second. It's really only a switch (ok a smart switch that steals audio). Therefore there is zero processing going on, and you can see this by a slightly more detailed picture (think about it, scale 1 pixel wider and you have sacrificed some detail). I was surprised by this. Ok, that was nice, but here is where the Denon falls flat on it's face. It scales ok (I have not done a detailed comparison, but it seems similar), but there are problems. Denon went the minimalist approach, so there is no gamma or any of the other sophisticated controls available. No big deal to me, but it could be a big issue for some. It might be impossible to attach to some systems because of this (again, no problem for me now). Also, for analog there appears to be significant issues. So far I have failed to get my LD player black levels correct. It's almost as if Denon used the HD levels for the analog. They are about 7.5 IRE too high, and get this - they only allow for positive adjustment. Therefore so far there is no way to attach the LD player and watch it (ugly). Fairly useless. So for video in a non-complex system with only HDMI, Denon is very good. Not so much for analog or more complex systems. Please note, I have only been playing for a couple of days, so I may find more capability later.

Connectivity - well, it's got a boatload of inputs that's for sure. The ethernet connectivity is nice too, but mostly becasue you can set it up from any computer on the network. So many things have network play capability I'm not sure it's that big a deal. As far as flexability, so far I like the Anthem with the multiple setup of each input. For instance, if I do get the LD working, I'm not sure how to handle the sound. It wants me to pick only one - unfortunatly with AC-3 certain disks will be on one input and others on another...

Audio (CD and such) - hmm, let me just say they are in the same class (my opinion only).

Advanced audio (SACD, etc) - I'm going to have to give the nod to Denon here, but there are lots of compications. For instance I can now use the Dennon-Link for SACD (though the PS-3 is no slouch). Oppo fans stop reading here... I was using the Oppo for SACD and such, but I'm sorry, the 970 sucks big wind on ALL high res audio. Even my semi-educated ears can hear a huge difference (though I am keeping it for a DVD transport). As big a difference as there is between the Oppo and the PS3 (which I have been using instead for quite a while), to me there is an ever so slight difference between the D2 and the AVP. Not anything big (very small difference). Depending on the equipment, I suspect folks could go either way (except for those who can hear the difference between cables - they might think I'm crazy ).

Movie audio - we are talking HD-DVD and Blu-Ray here. I'm sure when the good players with internal decoding are out there will be no difference (much), but WOW, Master Audio and HD audio are great. I was probably doing something totally wrong with my Pioneer, but I have yet to hear as detailed and dynamic scores until I changed over to the AVP/2500 pair. Probably nothing to do with the D2 vs AVP, but having it - I can't go back. This is as big a difference as the OPPO / PS3 to me. (It's really one of the major reasons I did this).

Bottom line - sorry, there is no bottom line for these. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I think it more depends on your tastes and what equipment you have as to which is appropriate for someone (again in my opinion). For now the AVP will be my main unit because of the movies .

And please remember, this is a quick comparison, by one person, who is just a "user", not a trained professional, or self proclaimed videophile/audiophile. They will have their own more educated opinions (I have a flame suit, but prefer not to have to put it on)...
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post #11892 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 11:46 AM
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Thanks Joe.

Obviously details of setup/calibration and the pairing with other equipment can affect this stuff too.
--Bob

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post #11893 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 01:14 PM
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I can't upgrade to 1.31 firmware.
My D2 has 1.11 official firmware. When i try to upgrade (with serial port, not usb-serial) this is the message:
"Eeprom programming failed"
I don't have any problem with 1.11 installer.

Maybe... i have to upgrade to a prior version... and then to 1.31?

P.S.: sorry for my poor english.. i'm learning your language.. but only one hour every week...
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post #11894 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

There are actually FOUR sub outputs in the D2 (2 RCA and 2 XLR). They carry the identical signal except for the standard 6dB volume difference between RCA and XLR outputs. That is, there is only one set of sub controls in the D2 and those control affect the output on all 4 of those jacks identically, and the same source content is sent to all 4 of those jacks.

The Setup item for 1 sub vs. 2 subs simply has the affect of lowering the calibration volume level to account for the extra driver in the room. It is merely a convenience item. It doesn't cause the jacks to carry distinct, or separately controllable bass signals for example.
--Bob

Oh - THANKS Bob for the EDUCATION - it saves
me from READING the Manual Now

I'll stay with my EXTERNAL system that lets
me individually control output and crossover
Freq for the 6 LFE channels all based on
the Single LFE output of the D2.
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post #11895 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobracalde View Post

Maybe... i have to upgrade to a prior version... and then to 1.31?

The upgrade instructions say you should
be able to go from 1.11 to 1.31
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post #11896 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobracalde View Post

I can't upgrade to 1.31 firmware.
My D2 has 1.11 official firmware. When i try to upgrade (with serial port, not usb-serial) this is the message:
"Eeprom programming failed"
I don't have any problem with 1.11 installer.

Maybe... i have to upgrade to a prior version... and then to 1.31?

P.S.: sorry for my poor english.. i'm learning your language.. but only one hour every week...

Make sure you follow the installation instructions correctly.

In particular make sure that you do not have any powered HDMI connections to the D2 while doing the firmware install. Be aware that many HDMI source and display devices leave their HDMI sockets powered even though the device appears to be OFF. What I recommend is that you disconnect all sources AND your display from wall power before doing the D2 firmware install whether or not you are using HDMI.

Also, note that you MUST "Restore Factory Defaults" in the D2's Setup / Save and Restore Settings menu prior to doing the firmware install.

Also make sure nothing else is running on your Windows PC during the install and that your Windows PC will not go to Sleep during the install.

Finally, there are rather rare situations where a failed firmware install (for ANY reason) can leave some portion of the D2 in a state where it won't accept a new install. If you can re-install V1.11 without problem then this is not likely to be your problem, but if you think you MIGHT have this problem, Anthem tech support can send you a Windows program that forces all of the programmable parts of the D2 back to the state where they can accept a new install attempt. Contact Anthem tech support.
--Bob

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post #11897 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

The upgrade instructions say you should
be able to go from 1.11 to 1.31

Yes, from readme:

Quote:


FAQ: Do I need to load previous versions prior to this update?
A: No.

But... i can't...

No problems with 1.11 installer or live video settings editor 1.2
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post #11898 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Make sure you follow the installation instructions correctly.

Yes Bob..

I followed these instructions:

Quote:


1.) Shut off the D2 using the rear power switch.
2.) Removed all HDMI inputs and output.
3.) Plugged-in the RS-232 connector.
4.) Powered up unit from rear.
5.) Used Live View to turn on unit, get current settings and save.
6.) Used remote to save current settings via setup menu.
7.) Restored Factory Defaults.
8.) Shut off unit via Front Panel.
9.) Cycled on/off rear power switch.
10.) Uploaded firmware
11.) Turned on unit via Front Panel and after 30 sec. shut down.
12.) Turned on unit via Front Panel and loaded Factory Defaults, then loaded my saved settings.
13.) Opened Live View and loaded my saved settings and uploaded to D2.
14.) Turned of unit via Front Panel and shut down rear power.
15.) Removed Rs-232 connector and plugged-in HDMI Inputs and output.
16.) Turned on Rear Switch and powered up D2

It works with 1.11 but with 1.31 it doesn't..
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post #11899 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobracalde View Post

Yes Bob..

I followed these instructions:

It works with 1.11 but with 1.31 it doesn't..

Sorry, then, but I don't have any answers for you. You'll need to try to work this with Anthem tech support.

They made changes in V1.30, V1.30a, and V1.31 in how the installer works with certain PC configurations. Perhaps they broke something with regards to your computer. (If possible, try using a different PC.)

You may also have a hardware fault in your D2 that is not found by the V1.11 install due to the larger size of the V1.31 install.

My bet would be it is a problem with the V1.31 installer and your PC. So if you can take the Anthem to another PC and try the install on a new PC that would probably be a good step while waiting to hear back from Anthem.

If you DO find the install works correctly using another PC, please do pass on the details (both PCs) to Anthem!
--Bob

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post #11900 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 02:24 PM
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Ok Bob. I emailed Nick..
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post #11901 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 03:41 PM
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I loaded 1.31 yesterday over 1.29k. At first I had the same problem with switching inputs. The screen went to complete snow and no muting took place. I remembered a comment Nik had made to me earlier about the letterbox gray shade in the video setup menu. I changed the shade from "Black" to another shade, saved the changes, and presto, muting came back. I don't know whether it's the change of shade from Black or just the fact that I saved a new change to the memory that corrects this problem, but either way it works.

John

John
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post #11902 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

This may be a little off topic with all the excitement and questions about the ARC-1 and software upgrades (I also ordered my ARC-1 and am eagerly awaiting its arrival), but I am looking to get a new cd player and was wondering if anyone out there has any suggestions as to players that 'play well' with the D2. I have a SFI centered system- D2, A5 & A2, Paradigm S4 speakers.
I'm planning to spend in the $2-3k range.
Just wondering if there is anyone out there with similar set-up that could suggest a cd player to me to help narrow my hunt.
Thanks,
Tom

The Cambridge Azur 840C is getting rave reviews, but it is lower than your price point.

I have a modded Roksan Kandy MkIII which gives me really good sound. This gets you to your budget.

However, the point of interest to me is the difference in sound if I use the player's analog outs vs using the player as a transport and letting the D2 do the decoding. In my set up, I cannot tell the difference between the 2

I have quite expensive analogue interconnects but used moderately priced digital cable when using the Roksan as a transport. With the benefit of this hindsight, maybe I should have used the money spent on the interconnects to have bought myself a better transport instead of the modded Roksan.

I guess what I am eluding to is: an alternative for you might be to buy a decent transport and let the D2 do the decoding. I wish I had more information for you to give you direction.
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post #11903 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by netroamer View Post

I loaded 1.31 yesterday over 1.29k. At first I had the same problem with switching inputs. The screen went to complete snow and no muting took place. I remembered a comment Nik had made to me earlier about the letterbox gray shade in the video setup menu. I changed the shade from "Black" to another shade, saved the changes, and presto, muting came back. I don't know whether it's the change of shade from Black or just the fact that I saved a new change to the memory that corrects this problem, but either way it works.

John

Good tip! Thanks for posting that.
--Bob

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post #11904 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 05:29 PM
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Thanks Bob for your reply, I'll try v1.31 tonight. I truly hope your right about my component video problems, I worry that switching the D2 on and off to get video up on screen will shorten the life of the D2. I do plan to use the ARC-1 once I see all the problems are ironed out and all the units (new and older) operate as intended, so having v1.31 onboard should'nt be a bad idea. Wish me luck, I'll let you all know how it works out.

Thanks, E. Anderson

EA
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post #11905 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruginator View Post

The Cambridge Azur 840C is getting rave reviews, but it is lower than your price point.

I have a modded Roksan Kandy MkIII which gives me really good sound. This gets you to your budget.

However, the point of interest to me is the difference in sound if I use the player's analog outs vs using the player as a transport and letting the D2 do the decoding. In my set up, I cannot tell the difference between the 2

I have quite expensive analogue interconnects but used moderately priced digital cable when using the Roksan as a transport. With the benefit of this hindsight, maybe I should have used the money spent on the interconnects to have bought myself a better transport instead of the modded Roksan.

I guess what I am eluding to is: an alternative for you might be to buy a decent transport and let the D2 do the decoding. I wish I had more information for you to give you direction.

Thanks for the input Kruginator.
I did try the Azur 840c and was very disappointed. I had sold my Creek Classic cdp while my D2 was in the great white north getting a new video board a few months back thinking that the 840c would be an upgrade. I really liked my Creek, but went on the basis of the great reviews the Azur was getting. I bought the Cambridge thru Audio Advisor and was sent a used unit that may have been bad. I tried connecting it analog, both balanced and unbalanced and digital coax with no difference. All bad.I returned the Cambridge, but the experience had left a bad taste in my mouth and I decided to get the Creek Destiny cdp. I figured that if I loved the Classic that I would really love the Destiny. The destiny is good, but I think the Classic was far better, even though it cost $1000 less.
That wil teach me not to leave good enough alone. Sometimes the enemy of good is better.
I decided to compare the Oppo 980h with the Destiny today for cd playback. The Destiny was better, but the Oppo was pretty darn close. Considering it cost 1/10th as much that says alot. I have tried other $200 cdp's before that were nowhere near to the quality of the Oppo.
I do like listening to cd's so my hunt will continue. I think I have it narrowed down to a Meridian g06 or an Ayre cx7e. Both are a little above my initial budget, but it won't be the first time I've exceeded my a/v budget, and probably not the last. I can stay on budget if I buy thru Audiogon.
I think I'll google the Roskan now. Thanks
Tom

"You can have my remote when you pry it from my cold dead fingers" tngiloy
Anthem D2v;Anthem A5;Golden Ear Aon3,SuperCenter XL,SuperSat3;SVS SB13 Plus x 2;Oppo BDP-103D;Ayre CX-7eMP;Panasonic plasma; Dish Hopper;PS Audio Power Plant 5- Subject to change without prior notification.
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post #11906 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 07:00 PM
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I just finished loading 1.31, and I am still getting a blank screen when I try to enter the setup menu. Is anyone else experiencing this problem?
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post #11907 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

This may be a little off topic with all the excitement and questions about the ARC-1 and software upgrades (I also ordered my ARC-1 and am eagerly awaiting its arrival), but I am looking to get a new cd player and was wondering if anyone out there has any suggestions as to players that 'play well' with the D2. I have a SFI centered system- D2, A5 & A2, Paradigm S4 speakers.
I'm planning to spend in the $2-3k range.
Just wondering if there is anyone out there with similar set-up that could suggest a cd player to me to help narrow my hunt.
Thanks,
Tom

Not sure if you're looking for a cd transport to feed the D2 with or just the standalone unit as a separate entity, but the Esoteric DV50 (used ones are available on Audiogon) is a great unit. I have the Esoteric P70/D70 and their stuff is built like the proverbial sh@t brickhouse! Very quick, smooth, and reliable. Sound great too.

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post #11908 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

Oh - THANKS Bob for the EDUCATION - it saves
me from READING the Manual Now

I'll stay with my EXTERNAL system that lets
me individually control output and crossover
Freq for the 6 LFE channels all based on
the Single LFE output of the D2.

C'mon doc don't leave us hanging, what are the 6 subs you have?

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post #11909 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by The Bogg View Post

C'mon doc don't leave us hanging, what are the 6 subs you have?

I don't know about the other 5, but one of them turns his entire home theater into a Low Rider. Look at it bounce!

(grin!)

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post #11910 of 43031 Old 03-16-2008, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

Thanks for the input Kruginator.
I did try the Azur 840c and was very disappointed. I had sold my Creek Classic cdp while my D2 was in the great white north getting a new video board a few months back thinking that the 840c would be an upgrade. I really liked my Creek, but went on the basis of the great reviews the Azur was getting. I bought the Cambridge thru Audio Advisor and was sent a used unit that may have been bad. I tried connecting it analog, both balanced and unbalanced and digital coax with no difference. All bad.I returned the Cambridge, but the experience had left a bad taste in my mouth and I decided to get the Creek Destiny cdp. I figured that if I loved the Classic that I would really love the Destiny. The destiny is good, but I think the Classic was far better, even though it cost $1000 less.
That wil teach me not to leave good enough alone. Sometimes the enemy of good is better.
I decided to compare the Oppo 980h with the Destiny today for cd playback. The Destiny was better, but the Oppo was pretty darn close. Considering it cost 1/10th as much that says alot. I have tried other $200 cdp's before that were nowhere near to the quality of the Oppo.
I do like listening to cd's so my hunt will continue. I think I have it narrowed down to a Meridian g06 or an Ayre cx7e. Both are a little above my initial budget, but it won't be the first time I've exceeded my a/v budget, and probably not the last. I can stay on budget if I buy thru Audiogon.
I think I'll google the Roskan now. Thanks
Tom

Also try the Naim CD5x
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