Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 512 - AVS Forum
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post #15331 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 10:59 AM
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I let Nick know when he did my DSP upgrade. He still thought it was firmware related.
John

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post #15332 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 11:14 AM
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Just to get the ball rolling again, here are the charts for my current set of ARC V1.2.5 results -- Calculated at 12KHz. The previous post of these was one of the posts lost due to the AVS database failure:




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post #15333 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

As far as I know, Anthem has not reproduced this problem on the D1-HD or D2. Your problem may have been due to the cable box, but maybe not. If it happens again, send Anthem tech support an email with the details.

How are you connected for audio from the TWC box to D1-HD? HDMI audio or Optical/Coax audio?

The folks who have the AVM hissing issue can reproduce it quite easily. It happens pretty much every time a new audio stream starts up.
--Bob

I am guessing that it is a TWC SA8300HDC DVR problem and not the D2. However, I have never been able to get the HDMI audio to work properly between the 8300 HDC and the D2.

I was first connected via HDMI alone and when the native output of the cable box was 720p or 1080i the audio came through fine. When the output was 480p or 480i I received no sound.

I then hooked up the digital coaxial connection for sound and reconfigured the D2 for audio from the coaxial connection and I have no problems with the sound.

In addition, I have the 8300 HDC set for 16x9 output and it is constantly changing on its own to 4x3 when I change channels without any real ryhme or reason behind when it happens. I know the 8300 HDC has had this problem reported before, but it was supposedly fixed. I don't know if there is a handshaking issue between the D2 and the 8300HDC that could cause this to happen, but then I am pretty ignorant on how handshaking and communication via the two units works (actually three when you factor in my Sony VPL-VW60) with HDMI. I don't know if something I may have set up with the video for the D2 could cause the 8300HDC to automatically change to 4x3 when handshaking occurs for some channels.......

"A banker: the person who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it rains" - Mark Twain
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post #15334 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 11:46 AM
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Here are my 12 kHz graphs. dipoles for all back and surround.
LL
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post #15335 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Here are my 12 kHz graphs. dipoles for all back and surround.

Looks good to me! You still have a few dB drop in your side surrounds at 12KHz but nothing to worry about in my opinion. I am surprised, though, that ARC didn't roll off the Target curve up there for your dipoles.

I guess we still haven't figured out just when and why ARC rolls off the Target curve up there for some folks.

Your Measured curves still show some pretty dramatic room response issues around 100Hz to 150Hz. But ARC seems to have that under control even in your 12KHz calculation.
--Bob

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post #15336 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 12:26 PM
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Bob,
Well it sure sounds good and if I close my eyes, I can't see the graphs but I can sure hear the sound
John

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post #15337 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Looks good to me! You still have a few dB drop in your side surrounds at 12KHz but nothing to worry about in my opinion. I am surprised, though, that ARC didn't roll off the Target curve up there for your dipoles.

I guess we still haven't figured out just when and why ARC rolls off the Target curve up there for some folks.

Your Measured curves still show some pretty dramatic room response issues around 100Hz to 150Hz. But ARC seems to have that under control even in your 12KHz calculation.
--Bob

The dropoffs were greater with 5 kHz. They were raised with 12 kHz. May account for the better surround effects.
You have mentioned the use of ARC resources when raising freq. to 12 k. I thought the LFE sounded very good and probably same as my 5k results.
John

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post #15338 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 01:22 PM
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Could someone confirm which additional settings are still active after the ARC? Like the TV crossover, THX Ultra 2 sub etc...

I calibrated to 75 db using my Radio Shack meter prior to running ARC. Should I have set up anything else separately audio-wise?

I had the bass earthquake and still have a bass issue with my Sunfire True Sub now. It has a rattle at around 35hz that did not exist before. I am trying to trouble shoot every possible aspect before sending it to Sunfire for analysis.

The Sunfire is supposed to go into soft clipping before any noise is heard, so I think something may have gone bad. It is 11 years old and had performed flawlessly until now. Has anyone else heard their Sunfire rattle or bottom out. It appears to be around 35 Hz.

The bass was much better after upgrading the ARC software, but I had to re-calibrate. I suggested to Nick that a separate Music and Movie mode might be nice in future upgrades so we can tweak one without having to re-do the other. I did a 9 position movie and a 5 position music. The music was too bass heavy and I had to re-do both to fix it. I also suggested a second music setting for use with SACD/DVD-A etc, so you'd have a Movie/Music/6ch settings to choose from.

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post #15339 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 01:31 PM
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Hi,
I apologize if this is a stupid question but I am a bit confused and would appreciate some clarification. I am comparing some graphs I ran/calculated at 5hz and I just took an identical set of measurements and ran targets/calculations at 12hz and to my eyes they look identical. Is there a step I am missing? I did auto detect and then increased the x-over boxes to 12000.
I have not loaded them in yet as I wanted to be sure I did not miss anything.
/\\/\\
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post #15340 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 01:33 PM
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[quote=airboyd;14423322 I suggested to Nick that a separate Music and Movie mode might be nice in future upgrades so we can tweak one without having to re-do the other. I did a 9 position movie and a 5 position music. The music was too bass heavy and I had to re-do both to fix it. I also suggested a second music setting for use with SACD/DVD-A etc, so you'd have a Movie/Music/6ch settings to choose from.[/QUOTE]

Great suggestions!
/\\/\\
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post #15341 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airboyd View Post

Could someone confirm which additional settings are still active after the ARC? Like the TV crossover, THX Ultra 2 sub etc...

I calibrated to 75 db using my Radio Shack meter prior to running ARC. Should I have set up anything else separately audio-wise?

I had the bass earthquake and still have a bass issue with my Sunfire True Sub now. It has a rattle at around 35hz that did not exist before. I am trying to trouble shoot every possible aspect before sending it to Sunfire for analysis.

The Sunfire is supposed to go into soft clipping before any noise is heard, so I think something may have gone bad. It is 11 years old and had performed flawlessly until now. Has anyone else heard their Sunfire rattle or bottom out. It appears to be around 35 Hz.


The bass was much better after upgrading the ARC software, but I had to re-calibrate. I suggested to Nick that a separate Music and Movie mode might be nice in future upgrades so we can tweak one without having to re-do the other. I did a 9 position movie and a 5 position music. The music was too bass heavy and I had to re-do both to fix it. I also suggested a second music setting for use with SACD/DVD-A etc, so you'd have a Movie/Music/6ch settings to choose from.

You don't need any post processing like THX since ARC does all that and much more. Turn all sources to Room EQ=ON and just listen.
John

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post #15342 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

There were some reports a while back that people were having troubles playing some of the SACDs out there that have unusual speaker setups (e.g. 4.0) using an Oppo player and HDMI PCM audio.

At the time, I believe it was thought this was an Oppo problem, but I'm not sure that proved to be true. Oppo was undoubtedly in touch with Anthem on this, and so you might want to send an email to Anthem tech support and see if they have any updates on this, and in particular whether they know it to be a player problem with your player.

I presume you are already on the V1.33 Anthem firmware. If not they will likely suggest you try that as a first step.

ETA: I don't think I own any 5.0 tracks that I can try this way.
--Bob

I have similar problems with the Pioneer DV-58AV which, apparently, uses some of the same chipset as the Oppo.

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post #15343 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 02:22 PM
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How long is the USB microphone cable?

I will be using a desktop computer in another room and was wondering if the USB cable is too short to reach listening area, could I use an USB extension cable?

Is it necessary to be able to see the computer screen while doing ARC measurements?

I may have to buy a cheap laptop.

--Don
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post #15344 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwwhitley View Post

How long is the USB microphone cable?

I will be using a desktop computer in another room and was wondering if the USB cable is too short to reach listening area, could I use an USB extension cable?

Is it necessary to be able to see the computer screen while doing ARC measurements?

I may have to buy a cheap laptop.

--Don

You don't have to see the computer screen during the measurements. It prompts and then you have to click OK to start each mic position, etc. So you've got time to move between.

But long USB cables are generally not a good idea.

The provided mic cable is about, oh, 10 feet long.

If it's too much trouble to move your main computer (and believe me, I understand that), then a cheap laptop may be the way to go. If you have an Intel-based Mac laptop, you can also run Windows on that via the BootCamp environment. That's what I'm doing (using a MacBook).
--Bob

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post #15345 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airboyd View Post

I suggested to Nick that a separate Music and Movie mode might be nice in future upgrades so we can tweak one without having to re-do the other. I did a 9 position movie and a 5 position music. The music was too bass heavy and I had to re-do both to fix it. I also suggested a second music setting for use with SACD/DVD-A etc, so you'd have a Movie/Music/6ch settings to choose from.

I agree on being able to separate the Movie and Music Measurements and redo them separately. In fact I'd love to have a way to tell ARC to redo just one mic position. Sometimes I hear background noise that ARC doesn't complain about and I'd like to tell it to redo that mic position without having to start over from the beginning.

I'm not sure what the limiting factor would be in setting up more than just 2 ARC configurations. Obviously ARC is moving a significant amount of room correction data to the Anthem when you do the Upload so at some point I suppose they just wouldn't have enough memory to up the number of configurations. From a user interface point of view you would also need to manage the cross overs for them separately. It could probably be done if they have the spare memory in the Anthem to hold that.
--Bob

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post #15346 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmabuse View Post

Hi,
I apologize if this is a stupid question but I am a bit confused and would appreciate some clarification. I am comparing some graphs I ran/calculated at 5hz and I just took an identical set of measurements and ran targets/calculations at 12hz and to my eyes they look identical. Is there a step I am missing? I did auto detect and then increased the x-over boxes to 12000.
I have not loaded them in yet as I wanted to be sure I did not miss anything.
/\\/\\


Anybody?
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post #15347 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmabuse View Post

Hi,
I apologize if this is a stupid question but I am a bit confused and would appreciate some clarification. I am comparing some graphs I ran/calculated at 5hz and I just took an identical set of measurements and ran targets/calculations at 12hz and to my eyes they look identical. Is there a step I am missing? I did auto detect and then increased the x-over boxes to 12000.
I have not loaded them in yet as I wanted to be sure I did not miss anything.
/\\/\\

The only thing I can think of is that you didn't actually make those Targets changes happen -- i.e., you Cancelled out of the Targets window.

I don't have it in front of me and can't recall whether the Targets window offers an Apply button when you make Targets changes, but if so you should click on that, and then click on OK to dismiss the Targets window. Then do a new Calculation.

After you do your new Calculations you can re-open the Targets window to confirm what Targets it actually used for those -- i.e., that your change is actually in there.

Keep in mind that your Calculated curves won't change until you do the new Calculation after changing Targets. And that the Targets changes don't actually take effect until you OK out of that Targets window. When the new Targets take affect, there will be a brief pre-processing phase, just as happens at the end of taking a set of Measurements. That's another way to know they are changing.

I don't recall how your charts looked, but on my charts it was readily obvious that the correction had moved outwards from 5KHz to 12KHz.
--Bob

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post #15348 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The only thing I can think of is that you didn't actually make those Targets changes happen -- i.e., you Cancelled out of the Targets window.

I don't have it in front of me and can't recall whether the Targets window offers an Apply button when you make Targets changes, but if so you should click on that, and then click on OK to dismiss the Targets window. Then do a new Calculation.

After you do your new Calculations you can re-open the Targets window to confirm what Targets it actually used for those -- i.e., that your change is actually in there.

Keep in mind that your Calculated curves won't change until you do the new Calculation after changing Targets. And that the Targets changes don't actually take effect until you OK out of that Targets window. When the new Targets take affect, there will be a brief pre-processing phase, just as happens at the end of taking a set of Measurements. That's another way to know they are changing.

I don't recall how your charts looked, but on my charts it was readily obvious that the correction had moved outwards from 5KHz to 12KHz.
--Bob

Thanks for the reponse Bob.

I had done all that you mention and oddly enough they look identical to the previous ones which makes no sense to me at all. Should the "forced" box be checked or unchecked?
When I open the targets box after the calculation process it does say 12000...
I guess I will do a load of them and see if I can hear any difference.

Much appreciated as always!

/\\/\\
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post #15349 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airboyd View Post

Could someone confirm which additional settings are still active after the ARC? Like the TV crossover, THX Ultra 2 sub etc...

I calibrated to 75 db using my Radio Shack meter prior to running ARC. Should I have set up anything else separately audio-wise?

Before doing ARC Measurements, set the Setup / Speaker Calibration / Noise Level value, and adjust the volume knob on your subwoofer. It sounds like you did that.

NOTE: To set Noise Level correctly you need to set the Left Front speaker's volume trim value to 0dB first. This is apparently a bug. You should also have the subwoofer volume trim at 0dB when adjusting its internal volume knob.

Before or after setting up ARC, be sure to enter correct values for your Setup / Listener Position (speaker distances) and for the Phase and Polarity of your subwoofer in both the Movie and Music configuration. ARC only listens to one speaker at a time so it is OK to adjust these settings after setting up ARC without having to do new measurements.

[EXCEPTION: If you have more than one subwoofer, you need to set up correct Polarity and Phase for all of them *BEFORE* doing ARC Measurements since ARC listens to your entire set of subwoofers at the same time.]

Room Resonance Filter, Center EQ, THX Ultra 2, and Boundary Gain Compensation settings will be ignored during ARC Measurements and for any source with Room EQ = ON during playback after setting up ARC.

The ARC Measurements will also ignore the cross over settings and speaker levels you currently have set. Only the Noise Level is used, and of course the volume knob setting on your subwoofer. The ARC Upload will load new cross over settings and speaker levels.

Be sure that Setup / Source Setup / Room EQ = ON is set for all your sources after you Upload ARC settings for the first time.

Do not fiddle with the crossover and speaker level settings ARC Uploads into the Setup menu for you as you will mess up what ARC has set up.

After doing an ARC Upload, it is wise to do a Save User and/or Installer Settings to capture the crossover and speaker level settings changes ARC includes as part of the Upload. This makes sure you won't mess up those settings if you ever need to do a Reload from those memories.

If you have more than one subwoofer, you *STILL* should set your speaker configuration to "1 subwoofer" in the Setup menu when using ARC.

Read the new Section 3.15 in the Manual for other guidance on setting up and using ARC.
--Bob

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post #15350 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmabuse View Post

Thanks for the reponse Bob.

I had done all that you mention and oddly enough they look identical to the previous ones which makes no sense to me at all. Should the "forced" box be checked or unchecked?
When I open the targets box after the calculation process it does say 12000...
I guess I will do a load of them and see if I can hear any difference.

Much appreciated as always!

/\\/\\

The "forced" box should be checked by default. The Room Gain is basically just reported by ARC -- i.e., it is the "natural" Room Gain as determined by the Measurements. If you want to make ARC "force" the room to a different Room Gain -- one that is not the natural response of the room -- you have to change the numeric value and also check that box.

I suspect a different user interface might be less confusing here.

You'll have to post some before and after charts to see if we can spot anything wrong. Really, if you had any residuals between 5Khz and 12KHz they should be smaller when you do the 12KHz Calculation.
--Bob

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post #15351 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The "forced" box should be checked by default. The Room Gain is basically just reported by ARC -- i.e., it is the "natural" Room Gain as determined by the Measurements. If you want to make ARC "force" the room to a different Room Gain -- one that is not the natural response of the room -- you have to change the numeric value and also check that box.

I suspect a different user interface might be less confusing here.

You'll have to post some before and after charts to see if we can spot anything wrong. Really, if you had any residuals between 5Khz and 12KHz they should be smaller when you do the 12KHz Calculation.
--Bob

Is it possible that they were so small they are insignificant?
I just tried the process again with another clean measurement file and have the same result despite the target box stating 12000...
/\\/\\
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post #15352 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by drmabuse View Post

Is it possible that they were so small they are insignificant?
I just tried the process again with another clean measurement file and have the same result despite the target box stating 12000...
/\\/\\

Post before and after and we'll see. I suppose you ARE sure your "before" charts really were done with 5KHz, right?
--Bob

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post #15353 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Post before and after and we'll see. I suppose you ARE sure your "before" charts really were done with 5KHz, right?
--Bob

For sure - have never changed the values before today.
/\\/\\
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post #15354 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Post before and after and we'll see. I suppose you ARE sure your "before" charts really were done with 5KHz, right?
--Bob

Think I may have figured it out...
My copies of the measurement file were made after I did the target set. Each one of my files has the target saved previous...
Back to measurement...

/\\/\\
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post #15355 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmabuse View Post

Think I may have figured it out...
My copies of the measurement file were made after I did the target set. Each one of my files has the target saved previous...
Back to measurement...

/\\/\\

Shouldn't be necessary to re-Measure.

Just take any copy of that Measurement set and do an Auto Detect in Targets and it should reset things for you. I think that will also reset you to 5KHz but you can put that in manually if necessary.

Then accept those Targets changes and do a re-Calculation.

Voila! You'll have a 5KHz Calculation you can compare to your current 12KHz Calculation in the other file.

The 5KHz vs. 12KHz stuff doesn't change how the Measurements are taken -- just what's done with them afterwards.
--Bob

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post #15356 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 04:26 PM
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I hope folks who are fiddling with this Max EQ Frequency Target thingy realize that this 12KHz stuff is kind of something that got pulled out of a hat. One person used that value, and then I tried it expecting bad results and found good results instead, and other folks have picked up on that value.

Your particular Measurements may not require you go up that high, or may work better if you go a little higher.

I know in my case, however, that cranking it all the way up to 20KHz produced more wobbles lower down in frequency, so I think that's too high for my stuff.

You should look at your Measurements and see if you can pick a natural point higher than 5KHz, but not too high, which looks good to try. That may be 12KHz or it may be some other frequency.

Or you my discover that in your case, raising it *AT ALL* above the default 5KHz produces results that don't sound as good *EVEN THOUGH* the Calculated curves look better. That could be the "high frequency directionality" issue making your Measurements misleading up there -- and thus making the Calculations incorrect. Trust your ears.
--Bob

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post #15357 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 06:09 PM
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I, too, experienced the case where I had my AVM 50 settings get set to factory defaults (speaker levels set to 0.0 dB, distances reset, crossovers changed to 80Hz, video settings all nominals, etc). I made another set of measurements, did the calculations, and uploaded the results, and when I didn't hear really good results, I checked, and saw the settings had been seriously altered.

I restored my video settings from my laptop, re-uploaded my ARC values, but it seems like the ARC isn't being recognized: I don't hear it when I toggle the EQ in the input settings. It is as though the ARC isn't there.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Ron
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post #15358 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post

I am guessing that it is a TWC SA8300HDC DVR problem and not the D2. However, I have never been able to get the HDMI audio to work properly between the 8300 HDC and the D2.

I've been using an 8300 with the D2 for a while now over HDMI. Some pointers:
  • I lose audio on 480i/p channels when tuning from a HD channel. I can restore audio by switching the D2 to another source then back.
  • Set the 8300 to widescreen and stretch for 480 channels. I was told by my ISF calibrator the stretch mode gives the D2 the full 480 picture to work with.
  • Only enable 480i as an output format. This stops the 8300 from upconverting 480i channels to HD formats - best to let the D2 do this.
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post #15359 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIppolito View Post

I, too, experienced the case where I had my AVM 50 settings get set to factory defaults (speaker levels set to 0.0 dB, distances reset, crossovers changed to 80Hz, video settings all nominals, etc). I made another set of measurements, did the calculations, and uploaded the results, and when I didn't hear really good results, I checked, and saw the settings had been seriously altered.

I restored my video settings from my laptop, re-uploaded my ARC values, but it seems like the ARC isn't being recognized: I don't hear it when I toggle the EQ in the input settings. It is as though the ARC isn't there.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Ron

Ron,
If you had a good set of User Settings in the Anthem Setup Menu, load those and your settings will return even after uploading ARC. I had the same problem and Bob recommended this.

John

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post #15360 of 42976 Old 08-11-2008, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RIppolito View Post

I, too, experienced the case where I had my AVM 50 settings get set to factory defaults (speaker levels set to 0.0 dB, distances reset, crossovers changed to 80Hz, video settings all nominals, etc). I made another set of measurements, did the calculations, and uploaded the results, and when I didn't hear really good results, I checked, and saw the settings had been seriously altered.

I restored my video settings from my laptop, re-uploaded my ARC values, but it seems like the ARC isn't being recognized: I don't hear it when I toggle the EQ in the input settings. It is as though the ARC isn't there.

Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks in advance,

Ron

Restore your Setup menu settings from Saved User or Installer Settings.

I've not heard of a case where re-Uploading the ARC results didn't fix this. It sounds to me like your ARC results file is corrupted somehow.

Start from a fresh copy of your Measurements file, redo the Calculation and Upload it again.

ETA: Please do email Anthem technical support with details of what you did that resulted in your Setup settings reverting like this. Anthem needs to track down what is causing this.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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