Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 519 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by libsim View Post

I apologize if this question has been asked previously, this is my first posting in the forum, I joined earlier today.

My dealer has mentioned that the ARC system greatly benefits larger rooms but unfortunately does not do the same for smaller spaces. I live in a 900 Sq. Ft. Condo and the room dimension that my D2 is in is 10ft X20 Ft. Will the upgrade price be worth it in my case? Thanks in advance for your replies and knowledge.

Libsim.

P.s. The rest of my equipment is the Anthem A5 Amp and 2 Bowers and Wilkins Signature Diamond Speakers in the front and 2 XT4's in the back.
Thanks.

ABSOLUTELY. Odds are your room is not acoustically treated, and if you have something like a 10 foot ceiling you also have dimensions that will couple strongly with certain bass frequencies.

You don't mention whether you have a D2 (ARC upgrade price $400) or an AVM unit (upgrade price $800 plus dealer install charge for the hardware change), but in either case what ARC should provide for you will be a bargain.

If you've got room to put a sofa at your main listening position, then you've also got room to give the ARC mic positions enough spread for it to do its job.
--Bob

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Old 08-18-2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airboyd View Post

First, a reply to Bob about the ARC setup prior to the ARC running....

That's more concise than the manual. I re-calibrated my speakers and did a new read. Thanks. I went through and turned off anything that looked like it shouldn't be on as well like the "TV size EQ"

Second,

These are my readings for the front. I noticed although the numbers are similar the scale is weird between right and left fronts. The left speakers is basically in a corner and the right is in front of the open hallway to the room. Does this graph look right for my room with a big hole (essentially) on the right?

There's no need to turn off those additional audio Setup settings (Room Resonance Filter, Center EQ, THX Ultra 2 Sub, and Boundary Gain Compensation). ARC ignores them during Measurement and also during normal listening (for sources with Room EQ = ON set).

-------------------------------------

I agree with everything ABC999 said about your curves.

Don't worry about the RF Measured curve -- ARC has that well in hand. The dip around 50Hz is probably due to the lack of a wall on that side, but it is not an issue.

Your curves are clean enough that I think you can afford to try raising Max EQ Frequency Target. 12KHz might be a good place to start. Keep an eye particularly on the Center speaker Calculated curve to make sure raising that Target doesn't screw up the lower frequencies too much for that one (that's your roughest curve right now). If you see problems, try splitting the difference on that Target -- maybe 8 or 9 KHz. Remember that you can check all that without having to re-Measure. Just adjust the Target, accept that change, re-Calculate, and if you like what you see re-Upload.

If you do raise that Target, trust your ears. In the final analysis, what you hear is more important than what the curves show. If it sounds better then it IS better. And vice versa.

The subwoofer appears to be well blended in. I would think the results you have right now should sound quite good!
--Bob

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Old 08-18-2008, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yacht422 View Post

Bob: After mucho trial and error, i hope the attachment opens - this is my chart file.
If it opens, your review, please.
As always, thank you.
Walt

Apparently the "docx" file format is the new Microsoft file format for Word -- newer than what my Word 2004 for Mac understands. There is a converter that Microsoft now has available for folks like me, but for reasons I'll leave unstated I don't want to install that.

HOWEVER, you may be able to Save As to a new file the exact same Word file you already have, specifically selecting "doc" file format in the Save As dialog box this time -- the format compatible with older versions of Word. Then if you bring that one here I'll be able to view it.
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Old 08-18-2008, 10:49 AM
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J. Fricano,
It occurs to me that your unusual setup for sub connection may also be a factor in ARC seeing an uncommonly low Room Gain in your room. I have to think about this some more, but if you *DO* try the experiment of just using the subwoofer output from the D2, check out what happens to Room Gain and let us know if you get a different number back.
--Bob

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Old 08-18-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Apparently the "docx" file format is the new Microsoft file format for Word -- newer than what my Word 2004 for Mac understands. There is a converter that Microsoft now has available for folks like me, but for reasons I'll leave unstated I don't want to install that.

HOWEVER, you may be able to Save As to a new file the exact same Word file you already have, specifically selecting "doc" file format in the Save As dialog box this time -- the format compatible with older versions of Word. Then if you bring that one here I'll be able to view it.
--Bob

Bob is correct that you can do a File - save as for word 2003 compatibity format. Also using the alt print screen key combo saves the active window into the paste buffer whihc could be copied into window paint program to save a jpg file format.
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Old 08-18-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by libsim View Post

I apologize if this question has been asked previously, this is my first posting in the forum, I joined earlier today.

By the way, welcome to AVS and welcome to this thread!

In the first post of this thread you will find a collection of links to "The Good Parts Version" -- a collection of links to posts in this thread which have proven helpful to many of us.

At the moment we don't have ARC stuff in there yet -- perhaps we'll collect a section of ARC post links in the next few months. But for all the non-ARC stuff, those links are worth a look.
--Bob

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Old 08-18-2008, 12:08 PM
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FYI - Ordered the ARC upgrade for my AVM-50 today. They quoted me about 2 weeks until it should arrive and are charging me $100 for the labor.

My only regret is that I wish I would have ordered sooner to ensure arrival before the holiday weekend.
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

CycloneMike,
ARC doesn't use the "large" and "small" settings you have in the Anthem's Setup menu. ARC figures out your speaker's response on its own and comes to its own decision.

For your Music configuration (and also for your Movie configuration) I think ARC is seeing the steep dip at 100Hz (particular in the LF speaker) as an indication of the natural cutoff for your speakers, and is thus ignoring what your satellite subs are adding below that. You have an unusual inherent response in your combo front speakers because of the hole between where the main speaker drops off and the satellite sub kicks in.

You may be able to address this most effectively by adjusting the internal crossovers for your satellite subs. And as you've already noted, you also need to adjust the volume for them.

The fact that ARC is treating this dip at 100Hz as part of the inherent response of your front speakers -- instead of a room mode -- may also be an indication that you don't have your mic positions spread out enough.

Alternatively, you can run ARC in Advanced mode and adjust the Target crossover ARC plans to use for the front speakers yourself in the Targets window. If you want to try this, there's no need to re-Measure. Just make the change in Targets, accept that, re-Calculate, and re-Upload.

ETA: If that dip at 100Hz really is a room mode, then ARC ought to be trying to eliminate it for you. The fact that it isn't suggests ARC is hearing it at all your ARC mic positions -- no variation between mic positions. Which tells ARC this is inherent response in the speakers themselves.

(edited to correct the ETA above -- it is mic positions, not speaker positions that are at issue here)
--Bob

Bob,

Thank you for the response and suggestions.

I guess what I do not understand is why if in the standard setup when I uncheck the box that indicates movies and music are the same and then in the music column I indicate there are no other speakers except for the front why the ARC program would not implement a "flatter" curve down to 20 Hz?

This has nothing to do with whether I am indicating large or small or full range in the D2 setup (I know that is ignored in the ARC program), it has to do with the front speakers being the only speakers, so the ARC should not implement a waterfall curve that represents a 115 HZ crossover?

I started with the sub crossover at 60 Hz, and switched to 80 Hz after the first run, my next attempt will be at 100 Hz. I actually used the Stereophile setup CD to find what was wrong with the phasing and set the correct phasing on the speaker / sub combinations. I will take the next step and use it and adjust the volume (as best as possible with a Rat Shack meter at low frequencies..although my ears might work just as well at the lower frequencies) to get a more smoth curve and transition on the bass decade warble sweep.

According to the Stereophile review (at least in J. Atkinson's room) my C1's exhibited a drop in the response similar to what ARC is seeing, so maybe increasing the crossover will help this out. Also attached is the measured response in the chamber (blue speaker, red rear port, black combined - I think).


See attached from the review.

Thank you,

Mike
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Old 08-18-2008, 12:42 PM
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CycloneMike,
Your front speakers (with the attached satellite subs) have an odd response that is confusing ARC.

It is apparently seeing the steep dip at 100Hz as the natural cutoff of those speakers, and thus the dramatic rise in bass below that is being treated as a room effect (like Boundary Gain). ARC is wrong in deciding this, and so you have to help it out.

Odds are your different mic locations are also picking up variations on that low bass, which would be another reason ARC is seeing all of that as unwanted room response.

The best approach would be to deal with the cause of that dip at 100Hz. That would help ARC figure out the true crossover Target should be lower, but while also looking for variations in the satellite bass response that really are room related and need to be weeded out.

But you can also manually lower ARC's choice of crossover Target for the fronts to help it past its confusion.

In any event, the first thing to do is to get the volume of those satellites more in line with what the main speakers are producing, and look again at their crossover to see if that's the solution to the 100Hz dip.
--Bob

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Old 08-18-2008, 12:48 PM
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I use ARC on a D1 in a 11x13x7 room, and the improvement is significant - well worth the $400. I was using an SOS Optimizer to tame my largest node, but ARC sounds much better and adds major improvement up through the mid-range.

One note - my room was well treated before I got ARC. In the low frequencies, the improvement from ARC about matched the improvement from adding two Mondo Traps to the front of the room. Of course, the traps are big and ugly, and cost twice as much as the invisible ARC.

Good luck!
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izzihd View Post

One note - my room was well treated before I got ARC. In the low frequencies, the improvement from ARC about matched the improvement from adding two Mondo Traps to the front of the room. Of course, the traps are big and ugly, and cost twice as much as the invisible ARC.

Good luck!

So are you saying you actually REMOVED the Traps and are STILL getting better bass results from ARC? Wow!
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

........I'm not enough of an audio engineer to advise on room treatments.
--Bob

While hunting for info on room treatment recently, I found this article rather informative.

-Ben
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:21 PM
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Hi Bob,

I do still have the Mondo traps and really value the contribution they make to the sound of the system. They don't look pretty, but they are paid for and they work.

Thanks.
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Old 08-18-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barhoram View Post

Anyone useing ARC witha Buttkicker setup?? I'm feeding my Velodyne sub via the XLR output and have RCA sub output #1 and #2 feeding 2 Buttkicker Amps and 7 Buttkickers. After ARC, I've had to crank up the volume on both amps to almost 100% (they were at 50% before). With the output matching now, it's hard to put my finger on it, but the sensation isn't quite as good as it was before ARC....seems to be more easy to locate in the chair and slightly delayed. Any thoughgts?? I wonder if there would be a way to get an non-ARC'd sub output from one of the two sub outputs??

I, too, had to crank up my Buttkicker amp level a bit after applying ARC. This was because my subwoofers (Velodyne DD-18 and two in-wall Triad subs) had their upper-bass removed a bit by ARC , leaving less upper-bass to be sent from the D2's subwoofer output to the Buttkickers as well. But I have my Buttkicker amp set to only work below 50 Hz, so the difference wasn't very dramatic. I'm pretty happy with how it all worked out.

- Dave
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Old 08-18-2008, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by izzihd View Post

Hi Bob,

I do still have the Mondo traps and really value the contribution they make to the sound of the system. They don't look pretty, but they are paid for and they work.

Thanks.

Ah, OK. Thanks for clarifying that.
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Old 08-18-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCWolfPck View Post

FYI - Ordered the ARC upgrade for my AVM-50 today. They quoted me about 2 weeks until it should arrive and are charging me $100 for the labor.

My only regret is that I wish I would have ordered sooner to ensure arrival before the holiday weekend.

$100 seems high. My dealer charged me $39 and he said it was a snap for my AVM-50. I would inquire about that.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

Click here for pic of my 2 channel system.

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Old 08-18-2008, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

$100 seems high. My dealer charged me $39 and he said it was a snap for my AVM-50. I would inquire about that.

With the weak dollar $39 in Canada might equal $100 in the USA !

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Old 08-18-2008, 08:20 PM
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funny how not to long ago, the dollar was the other way, I'll take it for now.

That sucks hearing you guys are getting charged, Honestly this can be installed by yourself , Anthem gives you everything from extra screws and even a strap to stop electical discharge o the new DSP.

BTW, I ordered my new CC690 Center, was hoping to have it tomorrow, we shall see.

But this means another reARC... argggg i hate that...lol
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Old 08-18-2008, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TREVLAN View Post

funny how not to long ago, the dollar was the other way, I'll take it for now.

That sucks hearing you guys are getting charged, Honestly this can be installed by yourself , Anthem gives you everything from extra screws and even a strap to stop electical discharge o the new DSP.

BTW, I ordered my new CC690 Center, was hoping to have it tomorrow, we shall see.

But this means another reARC... argggg i hate that...lol

No you won't when you hear the difference
John

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Old 08-18-2008, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by TREVLAN View Post

But this means another reARC... argggg i hate that...lol

I know but it gets easier every time...........

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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Old 08-18-2008, 11:52 PM
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Here are the changes after I adjusted the crossover on the fronts and turned down the volume on the satellite subs.

Much better! It sounds great.

Now - if I want to try a higher cutoff frequency do I have to remeasure, or just recalculate?

Thanks,

Mike

 

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Old 08-19-2008, 02:29 AM
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since a few weeks I am experiencing HDMI connection failures from time to time during a movie from various sources (player, PC, cable TV) via D2 to projector or TV. It usually reconnects automatically after a few seconds (the message apears "frequency outside of range.." on a blue screen). I have installed v 1.33. Before with 1.31 I do not remember having similar issues. Very annoying. Are there any of such issues known with 1.33? I have very expensive and solid HDMI cables and don't think that the cables are the reasons of the recent problems. Any ideas? And if so, can I reinstall 1.31? thanks
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Old 08-19-2008, 05:30 AM
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Before I explain, I fully understand that what I did was dumb. I knew I was taking a risk when I did this and the outcome sucks, but I'll live with it because I'm an idiot.

I had an AVM-50 running firmware 1.21 that I wanted to upgrade to 1.33. I only had a Radio Shack USB>Serial adapter that has served me well with previous updates. However, I no longer have a XP machine to use. I searched the net to find a way to run this adapter on Windows Vista and I thought I found what I needed.

I installed the "Vista Driver" and ran the update. BAM! During the flash update I get the Blue Screen of Death and Vista crashed. I load up to try again....same thing.

So, I go purchase a new USB>Serial adapter that is compatible with Windows Vista (I purchased the Gigaware adapter from RS, part number 26-949). And took the following steps:

1) Uninstalled all previous drivers and rebooted
2) Installed Vista drivers for new adapter and rebooted
3) Confirmed COM port settings, etc...
4) Ran the Anthem 1.33 firmware upgrade file and followed directions (reloaded default settings, unplugged HDMI, reset power, etc...)

This time, I got an error after the OKI Internal flash updated/verified. The error was "Cannot connect to OKI boot loader".

I ran the firmware upgrade several times with the same result. I came here are did some searching and it appears that several people that continually encountered this error fixed the problem with a flash erase. So, I ran the flash erase program 5 times then tried to install 1.33 again.

I keep getting the same error. The firmware upgrade cannot complete.

However, I am able to use my AVM-50. I reset all of my settings and remapped all of my sources. The version number says 1.33 on the display.

My concern is that there is still something wrong as the flash upgrade has not been able to finish. I just yesterday ordered the ARC-1 upgrade and I am hoping that this won't create problems for that install.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to be able to complete the install of 1.33?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:10 AM
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kal and jay,

I know what you guys are saying but it's just a pain, move the speaker an inch reARC, touch this reARC. But I guess in the long run it is worth it, just more of a pain you know.

Going from a 590 to 690 shouldn't be that big a deal Jayray?


Trev
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:10 AM
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KCWolfPck,

I experienced the same 1.33 upgrade problem as you. In the past I had always used an older XP machine to do the upgrade and never had a problem. For 1.33, I used a new Vista SP1 box and got the "Cannot connect to OKI boot loader" error four times before I gave up. I found that the motherboard code had been upgraded to 1.33 but the video processor code was still at 1.31. However, I spoke with Nick & Piero at Anthem and they said that there were no significant changes in the video code that would cause problems if I continued to run that configuration. But they did say that there could be compatibility issues if I had been running older firmware. They also said that there seemed to still be some compatibility issues between the flash utility and Vista.

I waited a few weeks before I got the chance to try upgrading again, but this time I pulled my old XP box back by the AVM50 and used that and the upgrade worked perfectly on the first try. I did not have to do a flash erase. Both PCs have ASUS motherboards with 16650's on the board - I have never attempted to use a USB to serial converter to do an upgrade.

So unfortunately the answer seems to be "use XP for flash upgrades".

On a side note, I did find an annoyance with 1.33. One of the main reasons I upgraded to it from 1.31 (aside from the occasional self shutdown bug) was to get the new input resolution on the display feature. I've found that it does not refresh properly all the time. A few examples: a DirecTV receiver set to output native resolution for each channel connected via component. The first channel will display the resolution (say 720p). I then swtich to a standard def channel and instead of getting 480i, it defaults back to MAIN. Cycling through the status info also shows "No Input" for video even though there is a picture being displayed. I've also found this to be an issue when using my DVD player (component in) and PS3 (HDMI). I talked with Piero and he filed a trouble ticket for this.

Hope all this helps!
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoz74 View Post

KCWolfPck,

I experienced the same 1.33 upgrade problem as you. In the past I had always used an older XP machine to do the upgrade and never had a problem. For 1.33, I used a new Vista SP1 box and got the "Cannot connect to OKI boot loader" error four times before I gave up. I found that the motherboard code had been upgraded to 1.33 but the video processor code was still at 1.31. However, I spoke with Nick & Piero at Anthem and they said that there were no significant changes in the video code that would cause problems if I continued to run that configuration. But they did say that there could be compatibility issues if I had been running older firmware. They also said that there seemed to still be some compatibility issues between the flash utility and Vista.

I waited a few weeks before I got the chance to try upgrading again, but this time I pulled my old XP box back by the AVM50 and used that and the upgrade worked perfectly on the first try. I did not have to do a flash erase. Both PCs have ASUS motherboards with 16650's on the board - I have never attempted to use a USB to serial converter to do an upgrade.

So unfortunately the answer seems to be "use XP for flash upgrades".

On a side note, I did find an annoyance with 1.33. One of the main reasons I upgraded to it from 1.31 (aside from the occasional self shutdown bug) was to get the new input resolution on the display feature. I've found that it does not refresh properly all the time. A few examples: a DirecTV receiver set to output native resolution for each channel connected via component. The first channel will display the resolution (say 720p). I then swtich to a standard def channel and instead of getting 480i, it defaults back to MAIN. Cycling through the status info also shows "No Input" for video even though there is a picture being displayed. I've also found this to be an issue when using my DVD player (component in) and PS3 (HDMI). I talked with Piero and he filed a trouble ticket for this.

Hope all this helps!

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I now only have 2 laptops and both are running Vista, a Vista desktop, and a MacBook. I wonder if I can revert my older laptop back to XP (it's running slow on Vista anyway)?

The only problem I've had so far with my uncompleted firmware update is that I've lost access to the on-screen menu. When I go to the set-up menu, the screen just goes blank. I can adjust menus using the front display. If I change the video muted background color to blue or magenta, instead of the screen going blank....I get that color instead. Weird....but better than having a bricked AVM-50.

I would definitely like to complete a firmware install. Hopefully there is a way to do it with my current Vista notebook, but if not....I'll have to find an XP one.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by TREVLAN View Post

kal and jay,
I know what you guys are saying but it's just a pain, move the speaker an inch reARC, touch this reARC. But I guess in the long run it is worth it, just more of a pain you know.

It only matters if you care and, apparently, we all do, around here.

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Old 08-19-2008, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post

Here are the changes after I adjusted the crossover on the fronts and turned down the volume on the satellite subs.

Much better! It sounds great.

Now - if I want to try a higher cutoff frequency do I have to remeasure, or just recalculate?

Thanks,

Mike

Yes, those look a lot better.

If you want to try experiments with a higher Max EQ Frequency Target all you need to do is re-Calculate and re-Upload.
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Old 08-19-2008, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by buddy4711 View Post

since a few weeks I am experiencing HDMI connection failures from time to time during a movie from various sources (player, PC, cable TV) via D2 to projector or TV. It usually reconnects automatically after a few seconds (the message apears "frequency outside of range.." on a blue screen). I have installed v 1.33. Before with 1.31 I do not remember having similar issues. Very annoying. Are there any of such issues known with 1.33? I have very expensive and solid HDMI cables and don't think that the cables are the reasons of the recent problems. Any ideas? And if so, can I reinstall 1.31? thanks

You can certainly re-install V1.31, but there are no changes in V1.33 that would explain this, and no other reports here that I recall like this.

A few things to check:

* Double check that all of your HDMI plugs are fully inserted straight into the socket, with no cable stress shifting the plug in any direction. It only takes a little looseness in the socket to make for a flakey connection. Check both ends of each HDMI cable.

* For the sources that are giving you a problem, view that source, open up the Video Source Adjust menu, go to the Output pane, and check that Frame Lock is OFF (unless you have good reason to want it set to Auto for that source). Frame Lock = Auto makes the HDMI handshake a little more complex.

* When setting up the video to your display, did you discover that you had to adjust the display to shift the image horizontally by a significant amount (more than a few pixels)? If so then you may have HDMI Sync set the wrong way in Setup / Video Output. There are 2 possible sync settings and choosing the wrong one will result either in no video or in video that's shifted horizontally. And if you do get video, and correct for the horizontal shift by making an adjustment in your display, then the video connection can be flakey.

* Double check that the rest of your Video Output settings match what you thought you set in there -- i.e., that things got restored properly after the V1.33 firmware install.

* If you are having problems primarily with a cable or satellite TV box, see if you can discover whether they have snuck new firmware onto your box. It is not unheard of for firmware updates of cable boxes to screw up their HDMI output. Try using Component video from the cable box to the Anthem (with Optical digital audio) to see if that works better.

If these suggestions don't lead to a solution, give Anthem tech support a call and describe what's happening with V1.33. They may ask you to try a re-install of V1.33 on top of itself. It is unlikely that you have a hardware problem, but give them a chance to diagnose this with you.

And take heart. Anthem is working on new HDMI code that's slated for V1.34 that should clean up the HDMI handshake quite a bit.
--Bob

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Old 08-19-2008, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by KCWolfPck View Post

I keep getting the same error. The firmware upgrade cannot complete.

However, I am able to use my AVM-50. I reset all of my settings and remapped all of my sources. The version number says 1.33 on the display.

My concern is that there is still something wrong as the flash upgrade has not been able to finish. I just yesterday ordered the ARC-1 upgrade and I am hoping that this won't create problems for that install.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do to be able to complete the install of 1.33?

Thanks in advance.

Well you do need to solve this. You will need to re-install V1.33 after the ARC DSP board is added to your machine to activate that new hardware.

Make sure your USB/Serial adapter is connected directly to your computer (no USB hub). Disconnect any other USB devices if you can. Use a wireless mouse instead of a USB mouse for example. Make sure no other programs are running on the computer while doing the firmware install. Make sure the computer's energy saver settings are not set to slow down the computer or go into screen saver or turn off the disc drives etc. I.e., try to eliminate anything that might be happening during the install that might cause a hiccup in the install.

People here HAVE used Vista to do this firmware install. Most folks have had the best luck using the Keyspan USA-19HS USB to serial adapter. If you decide to get one of those, be sure to delete the Radio Shack adpater's drivers before you install the Keyspan. And download the latest Keyspan driver for Vista from their web site.

---------------------------------

My understanding is that Vista install discs also include a "downgrade to XP" option which might be what you need to replace Vista with XP on the slower laptop.
--Bob

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