Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 557 - AVS Forum
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post #16681 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 02:58 PM
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I have a fine white line that is around the perimeter of my picture. I thought this was controlled by turning my edges off or on and adjusting the pixel count to 0, but it doesn't seem to be making any difference. I've also tried playing with the custom scaling, but still nothing. My horizontal and vertical size in the scale out menu is at 100%. What am I missing here?

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post #16682 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 05:25 PM
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If the white line or noise is part of the input video (as often happens with broadcast stations), you can eliminate it by turning Edges on in Video Source Adjust > Crop Input and setting the pixel count to something BIGGER than 0. A 0 there is the same as no Edge cropping. The pixel number in Edges is the number of pixels to be cropped off of each of the 4 sides of the input.

It is also possible that you can get a noise line like that if you haven't set the vertical/horizontal positioning properly in your display. Not all displays have user controls for that.
--Bob

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post #16683 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

If the white line or noise is part of the input video (as often happens with broadcast stations), you can eliminate it by turning Edges on in Video Source Adjust > Crop Input and setting the pixel count to something BIGGER than 0. A 0 there is the same as no Edge cropping. The pixel number in Edges is the number of pixels to be cropped off of each of the 4 sides of the input.

It is also possible that you can get a noise line like that if you haven't set the vertical/horizontal positioning properly in your display. Not all displays have user controls for that.
--Bob

Bob:

I have tried adjusting the pixel count all the way up to 20, and the line does not go away. It is strange as it just appeared today when I turned the system on. If I switch to SAT2, which is the same input, the line is not present. In comparing the two video source adjustments, they appear the same.

Follow-up: At 0, the white line is close to the bezel. As I increase the pixel count, it moves further from the bezel or trims the 4 sides accordingly as you indicated, but I can't go less than 0, so I can't seem to get rid of them.

The picture is perfectly centered.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

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post #16684 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 06:03 PM
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does anyone know whether the clicking firmware problem has been resolved now that there is a new version out??
The clicking and poping is starting to aggravate me.Is there anyone out there with a $8000 processor that sounds like their mids and highs are about to require new diaphrams,and when there is $1000 in mids and $400 in highs per speaker these problems must be fixed before you put another version out!! If there is a solution than i apologize for my outburst.Need help?
thanks John
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post #16685 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

Bob:

I have tried adjusting the pixel count all the way up to 20, and the line does not go away. It is strange as it just appeared today when I turned the system on. If I switch to SAT2, which is the same input, the line is not present. In comparing the two video source adjustments, they appear the same.

Follow-up: At 0, the white line is close to the bezel. As I increase the pixel count, it moves further from the bezel or trims the 4 sides accordingly as you indicated, but I can't go less than 0, so I can't seem to get rid of them.

The picture is perfectly centered.

Hmm, that's not right. When you Crop Edges the rest of the video content should be stretched to the limits of the Video Output resolution you have specified. I.e., the bigger the Edges pixel count setting, the more the input video gets stretched -- there should not be a black border around the image after you turn Edges on.

Check your Scale Out setting to make sure you are using one of Panoramic, Anamorphic, or Letter Box.

There may still be a bug in your Anthem (even if scaling is off you should still be cropping that line), but let's check this first.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #16686 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclsound View Post

does anyone know whether the clicking firmware problem has been resolved now that there is a new version out??
The clicking and poping is starting to aggravate me.Is there anyone out there with a $8000 processor that sounds like their mids and highs are about to require new diaphrams,and when there is $1000 in mids and $400 in highs per speaker these problems must be fixed before you put another version out!! If there is a solution than i apologize for my outburst.Need help?
thanks John

John,
What is Anthem tech support telling you about your issue?
--Bob

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post #16687 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Hmm, that's not right. When you Crop Edges the rest of the video content should be stretched to the limits of the Video Output resolution you have specified. I.e., the bigger the Edges pixel count setting, the more the input video gets stretched -- there should not be a black border around the image after you turn Edges on.

Check your Scale Out setting to make sure you are using one of Panoramic, Anamorphic, or Letter Box.

There may still be a bug in your Anthem (even if scaling is off you should still be cropping that line), but let's check this first.
--Bob

Bob:

I am using Panoramic for my SAT input.

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post #16688 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

Bob:

I am using Panoramic for my SAT input.

Hmmm. What else is different between your SAT and SAT2 inputs?

Does SAT (the one that is failing) have a Setup / Source Setup / Scaler In setting, or are you trying to use video pass through (no scaling)? I presume we are talking about the Main video output here and not Zone 2 right?
--Bob

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post #16689 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Hmmm. What else is different between your SAT and SAT2 inputs?

Does SAT (the one that is failing) have a Setup / Source Setup / Scaler In setting, or are you trying to use video pass through (no scaling)? I presume we are talking about the Main video output here and not Zone 2 right?
--Bob

Bob:

I've switched back and forth between SAT1 and SAT2 in an attempt to figure out what is different, but other than some of the picture adjustments, I can't seem to find any differences. Both SAT1 and SAT2 are using HDMI2 as Scaler Input. I do not use the other zones, so yes, we are talking about the main video out. It just seems so odd why the crop line has all of a sudden appeared on this input.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

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post #16690 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

Bob:

I've switched back and forth between SAT1 and SAT2 in an attempt to figure out what is different, but other than some of the picture adjustments, I can't seem to find any differences. Both SAT1 and SAT2 are using HDMI2 as Scaler Input. I do not use the other zones, so yes, we are talking about the main video out. It just seems so odd why the crop line has all of a sudden appeared on this input.

Yeah, I'm stumped! What you are describing should not be possible.

There's nothing for it but to work the issue with Anthem directly.
--Bob

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post #16691 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yeah, I'm stumped! What you are describing should not be possible.

There's nothing for it but to work the issue with Anthem directly.
--Bob

Great, probably another issue that will be put on hold until the v2's are released. Thanks for your help in any case Bob.

I will update you on what they tell me.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

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post #16692 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Yeah, I'm stumped! What you are describing should not be possible.

There's nothing for it but to work the issue with Anthem directly.
--Bob

Bob: This is what I will be sending to Nick. Can you please review to see if I am missing anything before I send it? Thanks!

Something odd seemed to happen today when I turned my system on. On my SAT1 input, I am all of a sudden getting a cropping border shown around the 4 sides of my picture. I have a Bell 9200HD fed into HDMI2 of the AVM50 for both SAT1 and SAT2. The only difference between the two inputs are a few picture adjustments within the Video Source Adjustment screen. For SAT1, I get the crop border and for SAT2, I don't. Under the Crop Input menu for SAT1, I have tried turning the edges on and setting it to 0. The Scale Out is set to Panoramic. If I change the pixel count from 0 to some larger value, the crop line moves in from the TV's frame as it should, but, like I said, at 0, it still appears at the outer edge. If I turn the edges off, the crop line still shows in the same location as the 0 position when the Edges are on. On Sat2, my Edge setting is on and set to 4. No crop line is showing. Panoramic is selected for this input as well.

Everything appears to be perfectly centered on the screen.

Any idea what is happening here and how I can remove the cropping line on this input? During dark scenes, it is quite annoying as it appears as a white line. I could use SAT2, but I have each input calibrated for different programming.

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post #16693 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 08:47 PM
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The thing that shouldn't be possible is that what you are calling a "crop line" -- really a noise line at the edge of the image -- is moving in from the edge of the screen when you raise the Edges value.

If the problem is in the positioning on your display (an error in the display's settings), the line shouldn't move. And if the problem is in the input content it should vanish as you raise the Edges value (with the image being stretched more to fill the same amount of screen). It should NOT move inwards from the side of the screen.

Add to that your report that the SAT2 setup, using the same settings, doesn't have this noise line and you've got a real puzzle.
--Bob

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post #16694 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The thing that shouldn't be possible is that what you are calling a "crop line" -- really a noise line at the edge of the image -- is moving in from the edge of the screen when you raise the Edges value.

If the problem is in the positioning on your display (an error in the display's settings), the line shouldn't move. And if the problem is in the input content it should vanish as you raise the Edges value (with the image being stretched more to fill the same amount of screen). It should NOT move inwards from the side of the screen.

Add to that your report that the SAT2 setup, using the same settings, doesn't have this noise line and you've got a real puzzle.
--Bob

Bob:

I call it a crop line because only because when I raise the pixel count, it appears to increasingly "crop" the picture on the 4 sides as I increase the pixel count. Outside of this line, the screen is black. Do you think I should call it a noise line instead? The line is one white pixel wide.

Update:

Bob: I discovered what was forming the line. My detail level setting for SAT1 was set at 5 for some reason. I must have inadvertantly changed this as it was always set at 0. Turning this up starts to generate this white line around the edge of the picture. Issue solved!

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

Click here for pic of my 2 channel system.

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post #16695 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 09:11 PM
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It makes more sense to me to call it noise or garbage on the edge of the image, but as long as you describe it the way you have described it here the name is probably not important.
--Bob

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post #16696 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 09:12 PM
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It makes more sense to me to call it noise or garbage on the edge of the image, but as long as you describe it the way you have described it here the name is probably not important.
--Bob

Bob...see my update in previous message.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

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post #16697 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 09:35 PM
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Imagine that! That's certainly unexpected.

You may have discovered a bug in the Detail algorithm. I think it would still be a good idea to send an email to Anthem with what you discovered. Detail processing should be smoothly diminished near the real crop edges to avoid such "haloing" of the sharp crop edges themselves.

The other thing that still puzzles me is that raising the Edges value for SAT1 is resulting in a black border around the image instead of stretching what remains of the cropped image to the Video Output resolution limits.
--Bob

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post #16698 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclsound View Post

does anyone know whether the clicking firmware problem has been resolved now that there is a new version out??
The clicking and poping is starting to aggravate me.Is there anyone out there with a $8000 processor that sounds like their mids and highs are about to require new diaphrams,and when there is $1000 in mids and $400 in highs per speaker these problems must be fixed before you put another version out!! If there is a solution than i apologize for my outburst.Need help?
thanks John


Describe this more thoroughly. What do you mean by a clicking firmware problem ?
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post #16699 of 43422 Old 11-04-2008, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

Describe this more thoroughly. What do you mean by a clicking firmware problem ?


He means that when playing a audio source, and adjusting the bass/treble controls either fast or slow, a clicking noise would be heard from the speakers.. And the noise is very loud if volume is turned up..


I have this issue as well, and Nick stated that in a "future" firmware it would be fixed. Seems like ever since firmware 1.11 this problem appeared.. Expecially with ARC in the firmware now..


I agree, that for the price of this equipment, this should not happen..

but..

Since in firmware 1.11 it was not there, a new firmware could fix this.. So it's not a hardware issue..
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post #16700 of 43422 Old 11-05-2008, 02:37 AM
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yes that is correct,although it happens on alot more than just bass and treble
john
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post #16701 of 43422 Old 11-05-2008, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Imagine that! That's certainly unexpected.

You may have discovered a bug in the Detail algorithm. I think it would still be a good idea to send an email to Anthem with what you discovered. Detail processing should be smoothly diminished near the real crop edges to avoid such "haloing" of the sharp crop edges themselves.

The other thing that still puzzles me is that raising the Edges value for SAT1 is resulting in a black border around the image instead of stretching what remains of the cropped image to the Video Output resolution limits.
--Bob

I will send an e-mail to Nick to describe my findings and let you know.

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

Click here for pic of my 2 channel system.

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post #16702 of 43422 Old 11-05-2008, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Imagine that! That's certainly unexpected.

You may have discovered a bug in the Detail algorithm. I think it would still be a good idea to send an email to Anthem with what you discovered. Detail processing should be smoothly diminished near the real crop edges to avoid such "haloing" of the sharp crop edges themselves.

The other thing that still puzzles me is that raising the Edges value for SAT1 is resulting in a black border around the image instead of stretching what remains of the cropped image to the Video Output resolution limits.
--Bob

Bob:

Following is my question to Nick at Anthem and his response:

Nick:

I discovered something today which seems a bit peculiar to me. Under Video Source Adjustment>Picture>Detail Enhancement, I tried adjusting the detail level to 5. What I discovered as I did this was a line formed around the perimeter of my picture which I will call a noise line, for lack of a better term. This line is white and is one pixel wide, but surrounds the picture on all 4 sides. At first, I tried to eliminate it by setting my edges off but this did not accomplish what I had hoped. I also tried edges on and setting it to 0 but as I expected, this didn't remove the line either. I also tried adjusting the edge setting above 0, but no change other than the line moving in to correspond with the edge setting. My scale out setting is set to Panoramic. I then went back to the detail adjustment and played around with the setting some more. The line disappears at a detail level of 2. Anything above 2 produces the line.

I have a Bell 9200HD fed into the HDMI2 of the AVM50. My TV is a Panasonic 58PZ700 plasma. Any idea what is happening here? This virtually eliminates me using the detail setting on the AVM unless I want to put up with having a very distracting white line framing the picture. The AVM is v 1.33.

Hi Mark,

That's what it's supposed to do. Like a sharpness control, it draws artificial borders around edges of objects in the image and like most videophiles, I say leave it off. The difference is that a sharpness control is analog (boosts high frequency, which occurs where there are transitions in brightness) whereas the detail enhancement control does this through digital processing, with the result being a little cleaner. It's still artificial.

This is image processing - the edge cropping function that re-frames the input has nothing to do with it.

Best Regards,
Nick P., Technical Support

Click here for pic of my 7.1 home theater system and here for pic of S2 surround wall mounting.

Click here for pic of my 2 channel system.

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post #16703 of 43422 Old 11-06-2008, 06:46 AM
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Arc 1.28 is up
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Originally Posted by abc999 View Post

Arc 1.28 is up

Gotit!
Finally it is possible to build a true stereo profile (without sub).
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post #16705 of 43422 Old 11-06-2008, 08:21 AM
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Arc 1.28 is up

Why do I only see 1.25 on the web site ?
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post #16706 of 43422 Old 11-06-2008, 09:29 AM
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Gotit!
Finally it is possible to build a true stereo profile (without sub).

I look forward to this. I made changes to the layout of my equipment and room finishes (see attached) so I need to recalibrate anyway. I will wait until the software has been deemed "safe for use"...

Thank you,

Mike
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post #16707 of 43422 Old 11-06-2008, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemark81 View Post

Hi Mark,

That's what it's supposed to do. Like a sharpness control, it draws artificial borders around edges of objects in the image and like most videophiles, I say leave it off. The difference is that a sharpness control is analog (boosts high frequency, which occurs where there are transitions in brightness) whereas the detail enhancement control does this through digital processing, with the result being a little cleaner. It's still artificial.

This is image processing - the edge cropping function that re-frames the input has nothing to do with it.

Best Regards,
Nick P., Technical Support

Well, I disagree with Nick on this and would consider this a bug. A haloing contrast enhancer like this should know the difference between transitions that are actually in the content and the false transition that happens at the 4 edges of the frame. It's easy enough to do. Just calculate as if the content is extended a few pixels outside the frame on all 4 sides (duplicating the pixels that are actually along each edge). Thus the false transition is now outside the area of the results you are producing, so the unwanted line is not produced in the visible frame.

But on the other hand, I do agree with him that Detail and Sharpness enhancement should both be left off for best quality viewing, so I suppose the issue is moot.

It will be interesting to see if the new VXP chip in the v.2 products also has this oddity.
--Bob

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post #16708 of 43422 Old 11-06-2008, 10:09 AM
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Arc 1.28 is up

What happened to 1.27? Don't seem to remember having seen it.
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ARC V1.2.8 is on Anthem's password protected download page, which means it is still "test" software. Folks trying "test" software should be prepared for the possibility of surprises. There's no big secret about the password for this download page. If you are working a problem, Anthem tech support will give you the password. But Anthem, quite reasonably, wants to know that folks understand the nature of "test" software, so they should be the ones to give out the password. (I.e., I won't post it.)

In the past, "test" software which seems to be working well gets put up on the public download page within days to weeks after appearing on the password protected page.

The release notes for ARC V1.2.8 read as follows:

Quote:
Changes:

v1.2.8:

1. Change to how sub crossover frequency is selected to address cases where the sub is a lot closer to the listener than the center channel, causing dialog to be heard from the sub if its crossover was set high enough.

2. More settings available for configurations not using a subwoofer. Note that while the front channels will be set to Large in the setup menu, ARC will still create a low frequency contour on the room correction target based on response at those frequencies. This is separate from the bass manager's crossover. To override it, set ARC's crossover (which is really part of the EQ profile) to 25 Hz in the Custom mode Targets menu, click OK, then Calculate, then Upload.

If using a file made with v1.2.2 or later, re-measurement is not necessary. Open the file using v1.2.8 Custom mode, calculate and upload.

I should note that the last time Anthem tried a change as in item (1) above the results were decidedly NOT GOOD, and the test software was rapidly withdrawn. The bass balance was way off for many normal speaker layouts. So folks might want to wait a bit to see if early reports are good with this version.

--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #16710 of 43422 Old 11-06-2008, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benleeys View Post

What happened to 1.27? Don't seem to remember having seen it.

ARC V1.2.6 and V1.2.7 were never released, even as test software. My guess would be they were internal test versions being used as part of the v.2 hardware development.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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