Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 592 - AVS Forum
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post #17731 of 43014 Old 01-07-2009, 10:04 PM
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bob, by looking at my sub graph how can you tell my sub goes down to 25hz,and how can i get it to go lower i should be able to go much lower, i have a paradigm signature series sub.

 

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post #17732 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

bob, by looking at my sub graph how can you tell my sub goes down to 25hz,and how can i get it to go lower i should be able to go much lower, i have a paradigm signature series sub.

Look at any of the main speaker charts and focus on the dashed (Target) curve. Find the volume level for the flat part of that curve to the right of the crossover frequencies -- i.e, in the mid-range frequencies.

This is what I've been calling the "basic level" that ARC is targeting for your setup. In your case that's about 73dB. The hump to the left of that is the Room Gain that ARC is trying to preserve for your room.

Now go to the subwoofer chart and focus on the green (Calculated) curve which shows the results ARC thinks it will achieve with your subwoofer. Notice that this curve also has a hump -- rising above the basic target level you found above (again, roughly 73dB for your setup) over a certain span of frequencies.

Look on the left side of that hump and spot the frequency where the green curve drops down below the basic target level. In your case that's around 25hz.

This means you've got sub goodness down to 25Hz. Below that, your sub is dropping off. It isn't a hard cutoff but your sub is producing less and less energy below that frequency. Now this is only a rough measure of what your sub is doing down there, but it is still a good basis for comparison between sub setups.

-------------------------------------------------

Now if you think your sub should do better (i.e., go lower) then look at the red (Measured) curve to see if it gives any clues. In your case you've got a sharp peak just above that frequency (roughly 28Hz) that ARC needs to eliminate. Then things really do drop off a cliff below that. The peak is likely a room resonance -- precisely the sort of thing ARC is designed to fix.

But the sharp drop off below that is likely a limitation of your sub itself.

Some subs have an adjustable "subsonic filter" which limits their low end. This protects the sub against very low frequencies that are often transients which may cause it to bottom out. See if you have one of those on your sub that you can set to a lower frequency. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that your sub has one set to 25Hz at the moment.

Also consider placing your sub closer to a solid wall or corner which will give you additional boost at the lowest frequencies due to "boundary gain" (and might also alter how the sub is coupling to the room and, with luck, reduce that peak at 28Hz before ARC has to deal with it).

But again, if ARC needs to clamp down on the sub to fix unwanted peaks a little higher up, you may not see any improvement in the lowest frequencies.

Finally, consider whether your sub is properly sized for the total cubic feet of air it has to pressurize in your listening room. If a sub is undersized for a room it will show up in the lowest frequencies first since that's where it has to huff the most air to get the same sound pressure level in the room. A sub spec'ed to go down to 16Hz for example, won't actually achieve that if the room is too big for it. Openings to other rooms increase the cubic feet of air volume the sub has to pressurize.

-------------------------------------

Any such changes in sub setup or positioning (even inches matter) will mean you have to do a new Measurement pass in ARC.
--Bob

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post #17733 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I looked at all the surge protectors at Richard Grays Power Company and they all use MOVs.

I've used Brick Wall (on my AV system) and Zero Surge (on my computer) and neither uses MOV's. In a quick search for both I found a post on Tech Republic that says: "Use a UL 1449 adjunct testing A-1-1 certified surge suppressers before the UPS. The only surge suppressors to obtain UL 1449 adjunct testing A-1-1 are Series Mode covered by U.S., patents #4,870,528 and #4,870,534." It said that units by Brick Wall, Zero Surge, Surgex and Adcom are the only ones that are so certified.

There have been some audiophile reviews on the Brick Wall units, which (according to memory) found "no degradation" to "some improvement" in sound and video. Not raves, but protection is what I was after. The technology in the two units was developed by Zero Surge but they are late to the audiophile market and I haven't seen any reviews of their audiophile units.

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post #17734 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 07:13 AM
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Bob, is it called a subsonic filter on the sub. all i have is cut off frequency, contour, phase adjustment , i also have my sub in the back of the room because of limitations and it is up against a wall about 1' away, and open area's in the room due to my set up being in my family room ( 13'x3o') paradigm specs show the sub can go down to 10 hz and a cut off from 25 to 150 hz...
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post #17735 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckley44 View Post

Bob, is it called a subsonic filter on the sub. all i have is cut off frequency, contour, phase adjustment , i also have my sub in the back of the room because of limitations and it is up against a wall about 1' away, and open area's in the room due to my set up being in my family room ( 13'x3o') paradigm specs show the sub can go down to 10 hz and a cut off from 25 to 150 hz...

What they are calling a "cut off" frequency is likely the built-in crossover in the sub -- the thing that cuts off the *HIGH* end of its response when you don't have some external device managing that already. When used with the D2 (whether or not you are using ARC) you want to disable the internal crossover in your sub and let the D2 do the work so that crossover processing isn't happening twice. Some subs have a switch that disables their internal crossover. Others have a separate set of input jacks that bypass their internal crossover. If your sub has neither then crank up it's internal crossover to the highest possible frequency (150Hz in your case) to get it out of the way as much as possible. Then re-Measure with ARC.

The thing I was talking about in the post above -- the "subsonic filter" -- cuts off the *LOW* end of the sub's response. In some, but not all, subs, the subsonic filter is adjustable. Typically it will have an adjustment range of something like 15Hz to 30Hz, with a roll off below that in the range of 6dB to 12dB per octave.

Keep in mind when sizing a sub for a room, that it is the cubic feet of air volume that matters -- not the square footage of floor space. A room with taller ceilings puts more demands on a sub than a room with lower ceilings of the same floor shape. And again, openings to other rooms or up/down stairs also increase the cubic feet of volume the sub sees. This is why you need to do your ARC Measurements with doors open/closed as you have them while doing normal listening. Even a closet or bathroom door open or closed will alter the room's bass response.

The Velodyne site has a simple calculator on it that suggests an appropriate size of their subs for a given listening room cubic feet value. You might want to try that to get a second opinion on whether your sub is big enough. In my case I found the Velodyne calculator was a bit conservative. They claim I should need one of their 18" subs whereas I'm doing just fine with one of their 15" subs.
--Bob

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post #17736 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 08:09 AM
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buckley44,
Did you mean to say you have the sub 1 foot away from that wall? Moving the sub up against that wall (instead of 1 foot away) will increase any "boundary gain" at the lowest frequencies. A corner placement does this even more.
--Bob

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post #17737 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 08:14 AM
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The Anthem web site is still touting the "Factory Authorized Sale" for the D2 and the AVM-50. I thought this was supposed to be over by now. Has it been extended?

Any dealers care to chime in with an update?
--Bob

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post #17738 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The Anthem web site is still touting the "Factory Authorized Sale" for the D2 and the AVM-50. I thought this was supposed to be over by now. Has it been extended?

Any dealers care to chime in with an update?
--Bob

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post

Finally, the factory sale on both the AVM 50 with ARC-1 and D2 is OVER. They were sold out as of 12/29/08. Sorry. :-( In fact, when I talked to Nick G. at Anthem yesterday he didn't even know that until I told him.

Cheers,
Jim E.

I was told the sale ended Dec 31. Jim said they were sold out. Perhaps they're planning on changing the site over to the new D2v right away and won't bother changing the sale announcement until they do? I'd expect the new models to appear on Anthems site soon.
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post #17739 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 01:38 PM
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I was told the sale ended Dec 31. Jim said they were sold out. Perhaps they're planning on changing the site over to the new D2v right away and won't bother changing the sale announcement until they do? I'd expect the new models to appear on Anthems site soon.

We should know more soon.

Benoit
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post #17740 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 02:21 PM
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yes bob i have the sub 1' away from the wall, maybe ill try moving it closer. thank you..
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post #17741 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

We should know more soon.

Benoit

Oh you tease!
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post #17742 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 02:33 PM
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Just did measurement with 1.2.14 and the cutoffs are now better. The graphs show improvement and no negative changes. With music it sounded very detailed with smooth bass. Will test with movies tonight. So far so good. Prior measurements with calculations in 1.2.14, also showed smoother high end.
John

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post #17743 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 02:53 PM
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How do I go about getting access to Anthem's password protected download page?
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post #17744 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 03:10 PM
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It seems the practice here is to call Anthem tech and they will give you the password.
John

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post #17745 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Morris View Post

My dealer told me that they are going into production this month and that pricing will be confirmed at CES this weekend.

However, someone posted earlier that they were holding pricing at the D2v1 level.

My understanding is they will begin shipping at the end of next week at an "introductory" price of $7499, moving later to $7999. How long the introductory price holds was not clear.

So I was very close to accepting delivery on a Denon AVP-A1HDCI, when I got news of the D2V2 availability soon...I can switch if I choose to - I would save about 15% buying the D2V2 over the A1+Audyssey Pro kit combo...but the A1 is a beast in its own right....please add to my anguish and post your comparative thoughts if you're familiar with both the A1 and the current D2 with ARC.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Ohdee~ View Post

How do I go about getting access to Anthem's password protected download page?

Anthem tech support will give you a password.
The next question is why do you want to upgrade to a test firmware?
Were you advised to do so by Anthem tech?
Are you not happy with v1.2.5?
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Unless you are advised by Anthem tech to use the test software, you use it at your own peril.
When they work out the bugs it will posted on the official page. My suggestion to you is to wait until then.
Tom

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post #17747 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 05:14 PM
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~Ohdee~,
It's no big secret, but Anthem is trying to keep track of who is using these "test" software versions -- at the very least to make sure you are aware it is software still under development and thus may come with some unpleasant surprises. So I don't give out the password, but if you contact Anthem tech support with a problem, or even just because you want to help test stuff before it becomes "official", odds are they will give you the password.

Please note that in the past some "test" software versions were put up to address problems peculiar to particular production versions of the hardware, or particular combinations of home theater equipment -- and were not intended to be used by everyone. And some "test" software versions had sufficiently nasty problems that they had to be pulled, even as "test" software, within days.

If you don't like surprises, and just want things to work so you can enjoy them, it is always best to stick to the "official" versions that are on Anthem's public (non-password protected) download pages.

And with the D2v apparently about to ship, this new version of ARC will likely become "official" fairly soon.
--Bob

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post #17748 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Ohdee~ View Post

How do I go about getting access to Anthem's password protected download page?

I Agree with TOM

Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Tom

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DO NOT ROCK THE BOAT
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post #17749 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 07:11 PM
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Thanks for the advice. Everything is working as it should so I'll wait until the software becomes official before I play with it.
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post #17750 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Here's another CES press release, this time from Paradigm, talking about their new "Reference Signature Sub 25", which, perhaps confusingly, is a 15" cone-size entry into the $4000 sub category:

http://www.hometoys.com/news_detail.php?id=17770371

Note this snippet from near the end of the release:



The release shows a $299 price for the PBK-1. I've not been able to find out if this is another piece of electronics (in addition to a Windows application), or if the necessary hardware is already built into the sub and you are just paying for the software license and microphone stuff.
--Bob

Bob, does this suggest that more than one sub might be configured independently rather than multi subs treated as a single entity as is the case today?

Peter
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post #17751 of 43014 Old 01-08-2009, 08:30 PM
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I've no idea. All I know about the PBK-1 is what's in that press release.
--Bob

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post #17752 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 10:27 AM
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AVM 50v Formally Announced!

The CEDIA announcement of the Statement D2v last September (at that time called the Statement D2 v.2) made no mention of similar changes for the AVM-50. We quickly got verbal assurance from Anthem contacts that the AVM-50 would be treated similarly, but there was no official public statement.

Anthem has now addressed that. Here's the CES press release from the site of the PR company Anthem and Paradigm use for such things:

http://www.castercomm.com/prView.cfm?cid=111&id=247

Quote:




Photo Gallery
Anthem, part of Paradigm Electronics Inc, is a leading manufacturer of award-winning high-end electronics for music, home theater, and distributed sound systems, sold internationally under the brand names Anthem® and Anthem® Statement. Anthem products are used at all levels of music reproduction and allow you to virtually "be there" every time you listen to a favorite piece of recorded music or experience the excitement of surround-sound home theater. Headquarters are Mississauga, Canada. Anthem® and Anthem® Statement are trademarks of Anthem/Sonic Frontiers International.


ANTHEM UNVEILS THE LATEST AUDIO/VIDEO MASTER 50

The AVM 50v features improved processing capabilities, additional HDMI inputs and the heralded Anthem Room Correction (ARC-1) system.

LAS VEGAS, NV - CES 2008 - January 8-11, 2009 - The Venetian Tower Room 30-133 - Anthem, a leading manufacturer of high-end electronics for music, home theater and distributed audio systems, announces the availability of the Audio/Video Master 50v (AVM 50v), a state-of-the-art music preamplifier/home theater processor with a built in tuner and independent source selection for recording. This updated version of the AVM 50 combines unprecedented A/V performance-enhancing technologies with whole-home entertainment control that makes it possible for users to direct audio and video program materials throughout their homes.

Anthem engineers are among the most meticulous in the industry, and the company's commitment to value is confirmed by every new aspect of the AVM 50v. It features the latest Sigma Designs* VXP® broadcast-quality digital video processing to ensure deep color while offering improved noise reduction through block artifact and mosquito noise reduction. Two new dual-core audio Digital Signal Processing (DSP) engines, designed in-house by Anthem, offer a total of 800 million instructions per second (MIPS) of processing power to allow decoding of the new Dolby, DTS and other HD audio standards. Additionally, a free software download for support of Dolby Volume will soon be available via Anthem's website (www.anthemav.com).

In seeking to accommodate the most advanced input formats available, Anthem has upgraded its pulse-code modulation (PCM) input to support 7.1 channels at 24 bits or 192 kHz. Additional HDMI inputs (v.1.3c) have been added, bringing that total to eight, along with two parallel HDMI outputs, enabling the AVM 50v to be the true high-performance hub of any A/V set-up.

Anthem's heralded Room Correction System (ARC-1TM) comes standard with the AVM 50v. While equalizing frequency response in a room to achieve some generic (i.e. "flat") response is a common approach to solving problems with room acoustics, it will result in an unnatural spectral balance, since it does not take into account the human hearing system. ARC-1 is a true audiophile solution: it differs from other systems in that it uses proprietary processing to compute each speaker's in-room frequency response, and then computes a target frequency response for each to yield the optimal sound.

Estimated FMV for the Anthem AVM 50v is TBD. For more information, please visit www.anthemav.com.

*Key features of VXPTM technology include: • Superior image quality using per-pixel processing. • Very robust film mode detection. • TruMotionHDTM Adaptive De-Interlacing to ensure optimal image sharpness and picture resolution when converting 480i, 576i and 1080i inputs to progressive scan. • FineEdgeTM Dynamic Directional Interpolation to eliminate jaggy artifacts (i.e. temporal distortion) found in traditional de-interlacing algorithms. • FidelityEngineTM Image Enhancements to remove unwanted noise and improve detail. • RealityExpansionTM True 10-Bit Image Processing for eye-catching natural imagery.



Caster Communications, Inc 155 Main Street Wakefield, RI 02879 T 401.792.7080 F 401.792.7040 info@castercomm.com

Note that price and shipping date are not announced yet.

--Bob

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post #17753 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 10:42 AM
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AVM 50v Photos!

That PR site also includes AVM 50v pictures! Note that the back panel shot still shows "AVM 50 v.2", whereas the front panel shot shows "AVM 50v". These photos are huge -- way too slow loading to include in-line in this post, and I can't even upload them to AVS as links due to the size. So go to this page to see all 4 photos: Lifestyle, Internals, Back Panel, Front.

http://www.castercomm.com/gallery.cfm?cid=111

--Bob

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post #17754 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 10:53 AM
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presumably they will maintain the same price differential as now which is, what, $2k?
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post #17755 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 11:00 AM
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One thing that puzzles me is that the block of text on VXP at the bottom of the release lists "RealityExpansionTM True 10-Bit Image Processing for eye-catching natural imagery".

The new VXP chip Anthem is using in the AVM 50v and the Statement D2v is a full 12 bits per component (36 bits per pixel) processing engine with two independent video processing data paths.

I suspect this block of text may have been copy/pasted from what they had for the older VXP chip in the current AVM-50 and Statement D2.

I just looked at the product literature for the Sigma Designs VXP chip on the Sigma Designs site and couldn't find any reason to believe any part of its processing would be limited to only 10 bits per component.

I also can't find the trademark "realityexpansion" used anywhere in Google to refer to the newer VXP chips. It appears to be a trademark Gennum used with the old VXP chip (the one in the current Anthem products) prior to Sigma Designs buying that product line from them.

ETA: I've got an email off to Nick seeking clarification on this.

ETA 2: I got a quick reply from Nick confirming that this is, indeed, outdated info. The new VXP processing in the AVM 50v and Statement D2v is 12 bit through and through. I wonder what it will take for them to fix that now that the press releases are already in the wild?
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post #17756 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 11:05 AM
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Wow, those photos ARE big! I think I'm sold... I don't think I could ever justify the price of a D2v (As much as I WANT to) but the AVM-50v looks sweet. I can't think of anything else I would want in a processor for at least a few years. Time to start saving.

Also a quick question... I noticed that one of the improvements in the new VXP chip is that it is capable of "Dual-channel" scaling (i think I saw this in the press release for the D2v), does this mean it could down-res the inputs for a second output? For example take whatever your input video is, scale it to the native res of your main display, and also output to a second monitor at a different resolution?
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post #17757 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

AVM 50v Photos!

That PR site also includes AVM 50v pictures! Note that the back panel shot still shows "AVM 50 v.2", whereas the front panel shot shows "AVM 50v". These photos are huge -- way too slow loading to include in-line in this post, and I can't even upload them to AVS as links due to the size. So go to this page to see all 4 photos: Lifestyle, Internals, Back Panel, Front.

http://www.castercomm.com/gallery.cfm?cid=111

--Bob

I resized a couple of them.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9...nternalij0.jpg
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/9...0v2backzz6.jpg
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post #17758 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 11:21 AM
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Wow, those photos ARE big! I think I'm sold... I don't think I could ever justify the price of a D2v (As much as I WANT to) but the AVM-50v looks sweet. I can't think of anything else I would want in a processor for at least a few years. Time to start saving.

Also a quick question... I noticed that one of the improvements in the new VXP chip is that it is capable of "Dual-channel" scaling (i think I saw this in the press release for the D2v), does this mean it could down-res the inputs for a second output? For example take whatever your input video is, scale it to the native res of your main display, and also output to a second monitor at a different resolution?

The processing chip is certainly able to do that (two completely independent video processing paths), but the word we have is that the firmware at launch will NOT allow that -- both HDMI outputs will be live simultaneously but they will carry identical video.

One thing I'm not clear on, even after an exchange of emails with Nick, is whether the architecture allows a FUTURE firmware release to add separate video output configurations for the two HDMI outputs. There are some complexities in the user interface of course (in particular the stuff that's currently included in the Video Source Adjust menus assumes only one active Video Output configuration at a time), but my real worry is that the HDMI circuitry will get in the way.

Here's the problem: If you have one HDMI source going to two outputs with DIFFERENT Video Output configurations then you need to satisfy the source that two different HDCP (copy protection) setups are both valid. The HDMI spec includes provision for fanning out one source to multiple outputs, but the presumption is that each output is carrying the same video configuration.

HDCP over HDMI is driven, end to end, by the source device. So having two different Video Output configurations active at the same time from the Anthem could be problematic both in the Anthem and with some source devices. I just don't know if there is any engineering workaround for this.

[The dual video processing in the chip was intended for applications such as Blu-Ray players that have a main (movie) and secondary (picture-in-picture commentary) video stream that have to be separately processed and then mixed together into one combined output. It is also useful inside of TVs that implement picture-in-picture or picture-and-picture display of two channels at once. But in both cases the two streams are combined into just one video format prior to output/display.]
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post #17759 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 11:34 AM
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Cool, thanks Bob! Informative as always.

I can definitely see HDMI getting in the way which is too bad. ..

Do the copy protection rules allow for, say, a lower res 720p or 480p signal to be unprotected? Could we see Anthem changing firmware to allow an unprotected output down-converted from the HDMI input? I thought Studios cared less about protecting the smaller resolutions, and mainly didn't want people to have access to unprotected 1080p; of course, that may have no bearing on what is and isn't allowed for with HDCP
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post #17760 of 43014 Old 01-09-2009, 11:35 AM
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Something else I hadn't noticed before is that the front panel includes LED indicator lights for DTS, Dolby Digital, and Dolby TrueHD.

But not for DTS-HD MA.

Now the DTS-HD MA logo is silk screened onto the front panel, and I'm sure the Front Panel Display and On-Screen Display will show when you are feeding a DTS-HD MA bitstream to the unit. But for folks who think LED indicator lights are the reason for buying a product like this, well, they'll just have to do without one light...



ETA: I see they've got the "Dolby Volume" logo silk screened on there as well even though the press release makes it clear this is only coming in a future (free) firmware update.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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