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post #19171 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Well! You've made a tremendous amount of progress here, and what you have now should be sounding very good indeed.

The worst of your problems are behind you and now we are dealing with refinements.

First, your pair of subs is definitely going deep enough. Good. Now that dip at 80Hz (red Measured curve) looks suspiciously like a phase cancellation problem between the two of them. This is not certain because you've got room response dips in some of the other speakers near 100Hz as well, so this may must be the way your two subs are coupling to the room.

What I would suggest is that you re-read the instructions (post links in the first post of this thread) for how to set Polarity and Phase in each of your two subs to best match each sub to the LF speaker. If you are confident you have done it right, then fine -- it's just a room issue and ARC has corrected it. If you see something you missed, redo the polarity/phase adjustment on each sub prior to your next ARC Measurement pass and I think you'll get an even cleaner sub solution.

If it is not your phase setting then the next logical step is to look at "room treatments" -- these are things like "bass traps" that reduce the reflections in the room that lead to room modes that boost or cancel at various lower frequencies. It's all about how your speakers couple to the room. It is likely that some room treatment could clean up some of the lower frequency dips you have in the other speakers. For example a corner trap in the corner behind your RF speaker might clean up that dip at 150Hz. ARC has corrected most of that so you really only need to improve it a little bit and ARC can take it from there.

Other than that little dip at 150Hz in RF, ARC has your LF/RF speakers well in hand. And the residual error in RF is small enough that you could probably just as easily ignore it.

For your surrounds: LS is in good shape. The residual error at high frequencies is small enough to ignore. I'd probably say the same about LR given where you are coming from. RS and RR both have more residual error at high frequencies than would be ideal. But given the nature of your installation I'd be sorely tempted to declare victory in the high frequencies!

Lastly, ARC has decided your room has very little "natural" Room Gain -- the hump in the Target curves near the crossovers. You might want to try forcing some Room Gain in the Targets window. Try 2.5dB. But keep an eye on the residual error in your Center speaker around 100Hz. If that error creeps up closer to 5dB you'll need to either back out the Room Gain or try to change how your Center speaker is coupling to the room -- move it in or out a few inches from the wall behind it, raise it a few inches higher from the surface under it, or consider bass trap treatments.

Again, these are refinements of a result which is already vastly superior to your uncorrected room. The real test here is to Upload and do some listening!
--Bob



Bob,

Thanks for the help as ALWAYS. I actually ran two sweeps. One with both subs at phase 0 and one with the front sub at Phase 0 and the rear at Phase 180. I've included both sets of numbers to compare. Please let me know what you think. I'm anxious to see what you see. I really appreciate you pointing out that both subs at phase 0 is canceling each other out. I've confirmed it over the past hour just listening to them.

It's silly...I went and got the Video Essentials disc and used a SPL meter this afternoon. I couldn't see a difference in the SPL meter or I don't know how to properly use it. Probably the latter... Anyhow I then went for the "listening" test. I thought the subs sounded better when both were in Phase 0. This didn't make any sense logically but I thought it sounded better. In reality it didn't "sound" better, it was just louder.

Now fast forward. I've uploaded to the AVM the ARC calculations with all subs at phase 0 and it sound nasty! It sounded much better when I had manually tuned the back sub to phase 180. So in short you're RIGHT ON...I tried to use my untrained ears and goofed. Please tell me that the second set of charts (different sub phases) looks normal because everything else sounds GREAT. The 2nd set of charts is with the subs at different phases.

We've come a long way. I appreciate all your help!!! Now I just need to get these subs dialed in. I will say my optiomal sub configuration was when I ran ARC the other day with only one sub turned on, I then uploaded the ARC results into the AVM, turned on the 2nd sub and manually tuned the 2nd sub into the system thus bypassing it in ARC. I had the front sub at phase 0 and the back at phase 180. I am about to load the latest ARC results that had the subs in opposite phases so hopefully I'll get the same results I had from my install when the subs were working.

Thanks!!!!!!!!

PS. What is room gain? What does it do? I'm about to add some now. Thanks!!!!
LL
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post #19172 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Well!

Lastly, ARC has decided your room has very little "natural" Room Gain -- the hump in the Target curves near the crossovers. You might want to try forcing some Room Gain in the Targets window. Try 2.5dB. But keep an eye on the residual error in your Center speaker around 100Hz. If that error creeps up closer to 5dB you'll need to either back out the Room Gain or try to change how your Center speaker is coupling to the room -- move it in or out a few inches from the wall behind it, raise it a few inches higher from the surface under it, or consider bass trap treatments.

Again, these are refinements of a result which is already vastly superior to your uncorrected room. The real test here is to Upload and do some listening!
--Bob


I'm in the target window now, it shows my room gain as 0.258642. So to add 2.5%, would I need to make the number look like 2.50000 in the target gain white box? Is that the proper way to use the decimal or would it be .0250000?

Thanks!!!! I'm so thrilled we're making progress.
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post #19173 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 08:50 PM
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ARC Upgrade question. When I upgrade to a new version of ARC, can I go back and rerun old sweeps. I.E. run a sweep I did with 1.25 and see if 2.1 makes a difference? If yes does the new ARC software make new adjustments or am I better off doing a new sweep every time I upgrade to a new version of ARC?

Thanks!!!!!
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post #19174 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post

I'm in the target window now, it shows my room gain as 0.258642. So to add 2.5%, would I need to make the number look like 2.50000 in the target gain white box? Is that the proper way to use the decimal or would it be .0250000?

Thanks!!!! I'm so thrilled we're making progress.

The Room Gain values in the Targets window (there's one for Movie and one for Music) are in dB. So to force a room gain of 2.5 dB you would enter "2.5" into both of those fields and leave the "force" box checked.

You'll see the result as a slight hump in the Target curves in the vicinity of the crossover frequencies. The peak of that hump will be 2.5 dB above your "basic volume level" -- which again is the flat part of the Target curves to the right of the crossover frequencies. Pretty simple, eh?

Room Gain is a "desirable" room response characteristic. Normally ARC detects the natural Room Gain of your room and preserves it even as ARC is eliminating all the undesirable room response characteristics. You may have a very flat room, but I suspect ARC is defaulting to a low Room Gain due to some of the other problems you've got in speaker response. So give it a nudge up.
--Bob

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post #19175 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post

ARC Upgrade question. When I upgrade to a new version of ARC, can I go back and rerun old sweeps. I.E. run a sweep I did with 1.25 and see if 2.1 makes a difference? If yes does the new ARC software make new adjustments or am I better off doing a new sweep every time I upgrade to a new version of ARC?

Thanks!!!!!

Some changes to ARC will work with old Measurements. Some require new Measurements. Read the text file that comes with each upgrade for clues.

Personally, although I may use old Measurements with a new ARC for a quick check, I always plan to take the time to do a new set of Measurement before settling for any given version of ARC for the long term.

I do this, if for no other reason than 2 months from now I'm likely to forget whether I took new Measurements or not for my current ARC setup. It's better for me to just do it each time and then I don't have to strain my memory.

If you decide to use old Measurements, I strongly suggest you make a copy of your old file and do the job in the copy. ARC writes into the file and so the resulting file won't be the same as what the prior ARC made for you -- which means its harder to go back if you ever want to.
--Bob

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post #19176 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Big Tex View Post

Bob,

Thanks for the help as ALWAYS. I actually ran two sweeps. One with both subs at phase 0 and one with the front sub at Phase 0 and the rear at Phase 180. I've included both sets of numbers to compare. Please let me know what you think. I'm anxious to see what you see. I really appreciate you pointing out that both subs at phase 0 is canceling each other out. I've confirmed it over the past hour just listening to them.

It's silly...I went and got the Video Essentials disc and used a SPL meter this afternoon. I couldn't see a difference in the SPL meter or I don't know how to properly use it. Probably the latter... Anyhow I then went for the "listening" test. I thought the subs sounded better when both were in Phase 0. This didn't make any sense logically but I thought it sounded better. In reality it didn't "sound" better, it was just louder.

Now fast forward. I've uploaded to the AVM the ARC calculations with all subs at phase 0 and it sound nasty! It sounded much better when I had manually tuned the back sub to phase 180. So in short you're RIGHT ON...I tried to use my untrained ears and goofed. Please tell me that the second set of charts (different sub phases) looks normal because everything else sounds GREAT. The 2nd set of charts is with the subs at different phases.

We've come a long way. I appreciate all your help!!! Now I just need to get these subs dialed in. I will say my optiomal sub configuration was when I ran ARC the other day with only one sub turned on, I then uploaded the ARC results into the AVM, turned on the 2nd sub and manually tuned the 2nd sub into the system thus bypassing it in ARC. I had the front sub at phase 0 and the back at phase 180. I am about to load the latest ARC results that had the subs in opposite phases so hopefully I'll get the same results I had from my install when the subs were working.

Thanks!!!!!!!!

PS. What is room gain? What does it do? I'm about to add some now. Thanks!!!!

Of these two sets of charts, your combo with Phase shifted 180 has a somewhat better result for the subs. The other speakers still look the same of course.

One thing you may not be aware of is that the effect of the "Phase" control is usually limited to the region around the crossover frequency. It is used to fine tune the sub's phase to match that of the main speakers near the crossover (using the Left Front speaker as a surrogate for all the main speakers).

So shifting phase 180 degrees does not reverse one sub vs. the other over the whole bass frequency range -- only near the crossovers.

There is another control called Polarity. It has the effect of swapping the speaker wire driving that sub -- which means it swings things around 180 degrees across the entire bass frequency range.

Typically if you have one sub in the front of the room and one in the back (as you have done), you would set the one in front to "normal" polarity, and the one in back to the opposite polarity.

Then you use the Phase control on each sub to refine the Phase of that sub when played in combo with the Left Front speaker -- using the phase calibration test tones from a calibration DVD.

Do you follow? Phase 180 degrees around is not the same as inverting Polarity. Phase operates over a limited range of frequencies. Think of which direction the speaker cone is moving. The speaker in the rear of the room is turned around compared to the one in the front which is why you typically start with the two subs at opposite polarities so that both cones are moving in the same direction. Then you use Phase to refine that around the crossover frequencies.

Personally I think this is better done by ear than with the SPL meter. Basically what you are listening for is the phase setting that gives the most output when the sub and LF are playing that Pink Noise test tone together. If the sub is out of phase with the LF then the portions of the test tone near the crossover will cancel out since it is coming out of both the sub and the LF at the same time. That leaves just the lower frequencies of bass below the crossover. So another way to think of this is you want the phase setting that seems to give you the most HIGHER FREQUENCY sounds from that pink noise test tone.

OK so you set the front sub to "normal" polarity and then adjust it's phase as described to best match LF. Then you power it down and switch to the rear sub. Set it to the opposite polarity and then adjust its Phase as well to work best with LF. When both subs are matched in phase to LF then they are also matched in phase to each other.

Done this way (the two subs using opposite Polarity) you may find that the best Phase settings for the two of them are even the same Phase. More likely you will find it is some random difference of Phase -- not 0 and not 180. Why? Because the proper Phase is also a function of the distance of the sub from the LF speaker and of course that's quite different for your two subs.

Using opposite Polarity -- which completely reverses one sub with respect to the other -- is not affected the same way because of course sub 1 is the same distance from sub 2 as sub 2 is from sub 1. Make sense?

It is easiest to do phase adjustment if you have previously done the volume setting exercise I told you about with the noise level in the Setup menu and the volume controls on each sub. That will result in the LF and sub each putting out about the same volume of this pink noise phase test tone.

The difference between in phase and out of phase is subtle so take your time. When you think you have a candidate Phase setting, try swinging phase 180 around from that. If you had a good candidate Phase, then 180 degrees around from that will be the worst Phase. Can you hear the difference in the higher frequencies of that Pink Noise test tone? The good Phase setting should have more higher frequencies in that hiss. It's not very much so listen carefully and, again take your time. Go back and forth a few times to train your ears for this maximum amount of change.

Now go back to your candidate proper Phase setting. Shift off it to one side and sneak up on it until you think it is right again. Then shift off to the other side and sneak up on it again. Compare you two results and split the difference if they are not the same. That's how you refine your idea of the "best" Phase setting. With a little practice you'll get the hang of it.

Another tip: When playing the Pink Noise phase adjustment test tone from the calibration DVD, adjust the main volume on the Anthem so that the Pink Noise measures about 70 to 75dB SPL. That's loud enough for you to hear the subtle difference between in phase and out of phase without being so loud that it gets too tiring to listen to it long enough to make a good adjustment.
--Bob

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post #19177 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 09:46 PM
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Used the default process settings, which I believe is 5K. Will experiment further including speaker/sub positioning due to room anomalies that showed up in the response graphs.

I moved the sub around, and remeasured this weekend for movie and music configurations. The 5K frequency calculation sounded pretty good. When I moved it out to 20K, I could not believe how much smoother everything sounded: more air, subtle instrumentations revealed, more space between instruments, instruments very well placed in the soundstage. Still have an issue with sub performance, but is likely due to more than one issue(small size and placement). I'm sticking with 20K going forward.

Someone in an earlier post mentioned the value of running a Music config for 2 (.1) channel stereo. Up until today I thought 5.1 was good enough, but I was wrong and am now a believer.

Reject Passivity, Accept Responsibility,
Lead Courageously, Live for the Greater Reward

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post #19178 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 10:36 PM
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Jayray,
I've confirmed my issue of 7.1 channel input down mixed to 5.1 speaker output for "test" firmware V2.02c(13feb) using "Hellboy II" Blu-Ray.

I can hear it in Chapter 1 in Father's voice narration of the story and in particular in the metallic sound effects in the Center speaker when the king is crowned with the golden crown (around the 4:00 mark) and when the crown is separated into pieces (around the 5:00 mark).

But I can hear it even more in the training scene that begins Chapter 2. Particularly in the naturalness of the sounds of his breathing and his footfalls as he runs around.

When the PS3 is set to 5.1 output these sounds are much more airy and in the open. You can hear the ambience of the space he's in. When the PS3 is set to 7.1 output these sounds are more "in a box".

I attribute this to the significant amount of high frequency correction ARC is adding for my Center speaker combined with the theory that the bug with 7.1 input (when down-mixing to 5.1 speaker output) is that ARC correction is not actually being applied to that Center speaker.
--Bob

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post #19179 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

LFE starts rolling in around 125Hz, but both the roll in of LFE and the effect of a crossover are gradual. Generally you've got another octave.

But keep in mind that the "CLX" crossover you are referring to is the transition between the main drivers and the satellite sub in your combo speaker. Presumably the pre-defined "CLX" value is what they consider the optimum transition point. So any LFE higher than that frequency isn't going to get lost. It will simply be handled by the main drivers of the combo speaker just as the manufacturer intended.

The separate LFE input on your satellite subs is for all those lesser pre-pros out there that aren't as smart as the Anthem. I.e., pre-pros that don't steer LFE into the main LF/RF output channels when you have no sub configured.

ARC will send all the right amount of LFE to the LF/RF speakers -- mixed of course with the bass coming in on those channels already. Your combo speakers will reproduce some of that in their main drivers and some in the satellite sub.

You'll see from the red Measured curves in ARC just how well that is working. Normal deviations will be corrected by ARC. Since your speaker maker has thought to hand you default setup settings for including these satellite subs the odds are there will be no mistakes in their setup you will need to address.
--Bob

Great! Now I can begin to enjoy my newly spent hard-earned $ as intended.
On reflection, it was a silly query. Of course, the CLX will be handling what the sub 'discards' with its Low Pass setting, whichever frequency chosen. Duh

My profound thanks again, Bob, for making it sound so elementary.
Ben
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post #19180 of 42948 Old 02-16-2009, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

If the dubbing stages mix in 7.1 or more, will it be advantageous enough to make a genuine sound improvement into our homes, through blu-ray?

Bob

Everything is relative, but for the AVS enthusiast, I'd say definitely yes, if executed well. Did I leave enough wiggle room there?
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post #19181 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 02:04 AM
 
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Oh yes, lots of room to play with! And that was also my thought regarding good transfer to
Blu-Ray in 7.1 straight from the master. (Or 9.1 if & when coming!)

Bob

P.S. The theory of Relativity ---> by Einstein.
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post #19182 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 03:25 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

What be said. We aren't mixing in 7.1.

I am working with a company right now that has a theatrical 384.8 system and technology

Yes.

384 discrete channels and speakers. 8 discrete LFE.

Were hoping to mix a film in the format this year.

Next time you're down here I'll take you for a listen if you haven't already heard it.

Sounds like Wave Field Synthesis over at Mann's Chinese. I'd love to hear it someday.
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post #19183 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Jayray,
I've confirmed my issue of 7.1 channel input down mixed to 5.1 speaker output for "test" firmware V2.02c(13feb) using "Hellboy II" Blu-Ray.

I can hear it in Chapter 1 in Father's voice narration of the story and in particular in the metallic sound effects in the Center speaker when the king is crowned with the golden crown (around the 4:00 mark) and when the crown is separated into pieces (around the 5:00 mark).

But I can hear it even more in the training scene that begins Chapter 2. Particularly in the naturalness of the sounds of his breathing and his footfalls as he runs around.

When the PS3 is set to 5.1 output these sounds are much more airy and in the open. You can hear the ambience of the space he's in. When the PS3 is set to 7.1 output these sounds are more "in a box".

I attribute this to the significant amount of high frequency correction ARC is adding for my Center speaker combined with the theory that the bug with 7.1 input (when down-mixing to 5.1 speaker output) is that ARC correction is not actually being applied to that Center speaker.
--Bob

I can check it out later on mine if you'd like.
John

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post #19184 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Thanks, works like a charm.

And what's very nice is it's smart enough not to do another HDMI handshake, so the "toggle" is very fast.

Okay, on my way to work this morning, I was thinking about this cropping thing.

I setup a toggle on my remote server, so one button on my remote toggles between TV1 and TV2, to go LB/non-LB cropping. I tested with a 1080i show, but I think that's it.

My question is - Is the cropping range based on the output resolution, or input resolution? So do I need to set up different inputs to crop for 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p? Or does the crop take effect *after* the upscaling?

If the latter (I think it is the latter), does that mean this crop will work on 480i content, even though the D2v is adding the sidebars? So are the sidebars part of the overall image it's cropping?

I'm asking because I'd like to be able to use the same toggle for all content, including 480i LB content that the D2v adds sidebars to. And I'd like to avoid consuming yet another virtual input just to crop 480i content.

Does this all make sense? I know I could just test, but I won't be able to for hours, and I can't get this out of my head!

Thanks,
-Mark

TiVo is on it's way out - stream everything!
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post #19185 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 08:04 AM
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Here are a few issues I have found:

In the setup menu #5 Level Calibration using the manual test tones I get no sound out of right front speaker, yet when using auto I do.

I am using 2 displays a Sony 60A3000 TV and a Sony VPL VW-50 Projector. I cannot get the Video Editor to display when playing sources thru my projector.

The last thing, although not real bad, is the handshake time when switching between sources, especially my Tivo Series 3.

I have also emailed these to Nick.
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post #19186 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post

Here are a few issues I have found:

In the setup menu #5 Level Calibration using the manual test tones I get no sound out of right front speaker, yet when using auto I do.

I am using 2 displays a Sony 60A3000 TV and a Sony VPL VW-50 Projector. I cannot get the Video Editor to display when playing sources thru my projector.

The last thing, although not real bad, is the handshake time when switching between sources, especially my Tivo Series 3.

I have also emailed these to Nick.

Bill.. if you look back a couple of pages you'll see the tone issue is being addressed.

I think the handshake time, Bob mentioned, will not be able to be "fixed.." It seems it's a feature of the new video solution.
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post #19187 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Okay, on my way to work this morning, I was thinking about this cropping thing.

I setup a toggle on my remote server, so one button on my remote toggles between TV1 and TV2, to go LB/non-LB cropping. I tested with a 1080i show, but I think that's it.

My question is - Is the cropping range based on the output resolution, or input resolution? So do I need to set up different inputs to crop for 480i/p, 720p, and 1080i/p? Or does the crop take effect *after* the upscaling?

If the latter (I think it is the latter), does that mean this crop will work on 480i content, even though the D2v is adding the sidebars? So are the sidebars part of the overall image it's cropping?

I'm asking because I'd like to be able to use the same toggle for all content, including 480i LB content that the D2v adds sidebars to. And I'd like to avoid consuming yet another virtual input just to crop 480i content.

Does this all make sense? I know I could just test, but I won't be able to for hours, and I can't get this out of my head!

Thanks,
-Mark

The values used for vertical and horizontal cropping, and the centering of that crop within the input image, are based on the 1920x1080p version of the video that the Anthem uses for all its internal processing. Which means you can define one crop and it will extract the same percentage and location out of the input video regardless of the input video resolution. The crop is also entirely independent of the output video resolution you have chosen. The Scale Out setting determines how the shape you have cropped out of the input gets stretched or padded to match the shape of your defined Video Output configuration. Scaling then converts the resolution to complete the task.

It's a little more complicated because SD video pixels are not square and the same pixels will get interpreted as having two different widths according to whether the input SD video is flagged as 4:3 content or 16:9 content (as from an SD-DVD player). Examples of the math are shown in the Fun With Custom Cropping and Scaling links in the collection of links in the first post of this thread.
--Bob

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post #19188 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post

Here are a few issues I have found:

In the setup menu #5 Level Calibration using the manual test tones I get no sound out of right front speaker, yet when using auto I do.

I am using 2 displays a Sony 60A3000 TV and a Sony VPL VW-50 Projector. I cannot get the Video Editor to display when playing sources thru my projector.

The last thing, although not real bad, is the handshake time when switching between sources, especially my Tivo Series 3.

I have also emailed these to Nick.

There are several bugs in the Setup > Level Calibration menu that I believe are fixed in the "test" firmware V2.02c(13feb) for the D2v and AVM 50v. I haven't actually tried the Level Calibration menu with this firmware yet so I'm not sure it all works correctly now.

This "test" firmware is only available at the moment from Anthem's password protected download page. Anthem tech support can get you access if they feel testing has progressed enough for this to be safe.

----------------------------------------

There is evidently still some more work for Anthem to do on the new HDMI code for the D2v, but I suspect the slower handshake will likely remain -- a result of the more elaborate process needed to support two HDMI outputs and, likely, the stricter protocols imposed by HDMI V1.3c.

----------------------------------------

I'm not sure what you mean by the "Video Editor" here. Do you mean the Video Source Adjust menu (accessed by pressing and holding the "7" key)? If so, that's a new bug. Please do get details to Anthem tech support.
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post #19189 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post

Here are a few issues I have found:

In the setup menu #5 Level Calibration using the manual test tones I get no sound out of right front speaker, yet when using auto I do.

I am using 2 displays a Sony 60A3000 TV and a Sony VPL VW-50 Projector. I cannot get the Video Editor to display when playing sources thru my projector.

The last thing, although not real bad, is the handshake time when switching between sources, especially my Tivo Series 3.

I have also emailed these to Nick.

Bill, Nick advised me that the handshaking is slower with the HDMI 1.3c chips and that there is no fix for it. The handshaking on my old D2 was much faster with my Tivo Series 3, than it is now. Just something I (& you) will need to get accustomed to.

Stan
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post #19190 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayray View Post

I can check it out later on mine if you'd like.
John

Please do. If I'm right you won't hear exactly what I hear because the correction of your Center is almost certainly different from the correction of my Center.

But it would be nice to get confirmation that at least one other user can hear this problem.
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post #19191 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'm not sure what you mean by the "Video Editor" here. Do you mean the Video Source Adjust menu (accessed by pressing and holding the "7" key)? If so, that's a new bug. Please do get details to Anthem tech support.
--Bob

Yes I did mean the Video Source Adjust menu. What is confusing is it works for all sources on my TV but not on my projector.
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post #19192 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post

Yes I did mean the Video Source Adjust menu. What is confusing is it works for all sources on my TV but not on my projector.

The video processor chip in the D2v and AVM 50v has two separate video processing paths. Even though the two HDMI outputs can only carry the same output signal (in the current firmware), the two halves of the VXP chip are still used.

The Video Source Adjust menu is generated by the VXP chip and overlayed on top of the video stream being processed. Apparently that is only functioning for one of the two paths through the chip.

It's a bug.
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post #19193 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 10:49 AM
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OK, I just tried the Setup > Level Calibration menu in the "test" V2.02c(13feb) firmware and the nasty new bugs introduced in the V2.xx firmware have indeed been fixed.

However there are a couple long standing old bugs that were first spotted in the firmware for the D2 and AVM 50 that are still in this latest firmware for the new hardware. They are:

1) When using Auto test mode, the Center speaker only produces output the first time around. This may be related to having a Music speaker configuration that does not include the Center speaker -- I'm not sure of that.

2) The output produced by the "Test Level" line (labeled "Noise Level" in the V1.33 firmware) is altered by the current setting of the Left Front speaker line. That means if you want to measure Test Level to achieve some particular target level you need to first zero out the Left Front line. After setting Test Level you can then restore the value in the Left Front line as necessary.
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post #19194 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 10:56 AM
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I heard back from Nick:

Hi Bill,

The menu 5 tones need fixing - known issue - although if running ARC the most that's needed from the menu 5 is a test level adjustment in there's too much background noise.

The on-screen display (I assume this is what you're referring to) only works through HDMI 1 output, no graphics besides setup menu through HDMI 2 output.

Handshake time is as fast as we could make it. There may be room for improvement but the split output complicates things.

Best Regards,
Nick P., Technical Support
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post #19195 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post

I heard back from Nick:

Hi Bill,

The menu 5 tones need fixing - known issue - although if running ARC the most that's needed from the menu 5 is a test level adjustment in there's too much background noise.

The on-screen display (I assume this is what you're referring to) only works through HDMI 1 output, no graphics besides setup menu through HDMI 2 output.

Handshake time is as fast as we could make it. There may be room for improvement but the split output complicates things.

Best Regards,
Nick P., Technical Support

Maybe, Anthem can offer one variation of the firmware for those of us who are not using the split output and one for those using the split output.

Stan
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post #19196 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post

I heard back from Nick:

Hi Bill,The on-screen display (I assume this is what you're referring to) only works through HDMI 1 output, no graphics besides setup menu through HDMI 2 output.

They'll have to fix this for the Video Source Adjust menu if they ever do offer the ability to put out different video on the two HDMI outputs.

But it sounds like Nick is saying that you can't even get the on-screen volume, mode, and Select info displays out of HDMI 2. Is that correct?

ETA: I can't find anything in the latest D2v Manual that suggests "on-screen display" limitations for the HDMI 2 output.
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post #19197 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billatlakegeorge View Post

I heard back from Nick:

Hi Bill,

The menu 5 tones need fixing - known issue - although if running ARC the most that's needed from the menu 5 is a test level adjustment in there's too much background noise.

The on-screen display (I assume this is what you're referring to) only works through HDMI 1 output, no graphics besides setup menu through HDMI 2 output.

Hi All, I have the same problem and have a call into Anthem TS but I suspect this is not just limited to HDMI 2 because I am only using HDMI 1. I also had a variant of the tone problem but it went away after I reloaded the factory defaults and then re-loading my user settings . . . if I remember correctly, the system had somehow deleted a speaker from my set-up and the problem went away once I told the system that I did indeed have both a FR and FL speaker.

I'm hoping to get access to the password protected site later today to see if the new firmware fixes some of my remaining issues (black/gray levels, etc.).

Shawn
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post #19198 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 11:24 AM
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Just a small pet peeve...

It's Blu-ray and NOT BlueRay or Blue-Ray or Blue Ray.

Blu-ray Disc = BD not BR!

Full name = Blu-ray Disc
Most common street name = Blu-ray
Abbreviation = BD

Okay... I feel better now
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post #19199 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 11:38 AM
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If the inability to get the Video Source Adjust menu output on HDMI 2 proves to be a long term thing, it will complicate video setup for folks.

You'll need to temporarily plug the display you intend to use on HDMI 2 into HDMI 1 to bring up the Video Source Adjust > Patterns internally generated test charts so you can properly set the video levels on that display. Then you'll need to move it back to HDMI 2 and repeat the process with the display you want to use on HDMI 1.
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post #19200 of 42948 Old 02-17-2009, 12:58 PM
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Nick at Anthem tells me that they were able to run with the info I provided on the YCbCr gray scale bug (still present in the V2.02c(13feb) "test" firmware) and found the culprit.

The bug in YCbCr handshaking arises when Extended RGB is enabled in the Video Source Adjust > Picture > Input Color Space menu for that input device.

He says they have the fix in place but it will take a few more days before it is out as a new test version pending other bug fixes.

My cookie tastes even sweeter now!


--Bob

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