Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide - Page 757 - AVS Forum
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post #22681 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

FIX or NO FIX - Software that can not roll back is BROKEN.

Someone needs to get Anthem to FIX that issue. I would have
never expected this from Anthem. They are just ASKING for
TROUBLE and VERY DISSATISFIED OWNERS

We had it once with the D2 as well. That's one of the reasons you stuck with V1.10 for so long.

In the case of the D2 the problem was that the format for the internal storage of the settings changed, which meant any older firmware installer couldn't work even with the Factory Defaults established by the newer installer.

But I'm surprised an owner can't even roll back using the Flash Eraser. So there must be something more significant going on such as changing a portion of the programming that is not normally changed by the installer (and thus an older installer won't change it back).
--Bob


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post #22682 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 08:41 AM
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Testing so far with V2.07c is a mixed bag.

First of all, audio and video sound and look fine, but so far I've not spotted any dramatic improvements in quality. Calibration levels for video are unchanged. I haven't tested audio so precisely just yet, but subjectively, calibration levels for audio also appear to be unchanged and my older ARC setup seems to be working fine with this firmware. NOTE: I re-Uploaded my older ARC results after the V2.07c install "just in case".

The bug where PLIIx-Movie or PLIIx-Music applied to 2.0 input only produces 2.1 speaker output (instead of 5.1 or 7.1) appears to be fixed. It was already fixed for 48KHz 2.0 input in V2.07 (e.g., stereo audio from cable TV boxes), and is now also fixed for 44.1KHz 2.0 input in V2.07c (e.g., stereo from a CD player). You no longer have to switch to a different audio mode and back to get all the speakers properly active.

V2.07c appears to be having more trouble doing a correct HDMI handshake with my PS3. Symptoms include a black screen, or corrupted audio. Switching to a different input and back cures this. Curiously, I'm NOT having such problems with HDMI handshake from my Oppo BDP-83.

The bug where the unusual DTS-HD HR (not MA) 7.1 track from the Dragon Encounters bonus feature on "Sleeping Beauty" Blu-Ray gets seen by the D2v as only 5.1 when Bitstreamed still exists. It may be the D2v is publishing that it can only accept up to 5.1 for DTS-HD HR Bitstreams, even though it can accept up to 7.1 for DTS-HD MA Bitstreams. I've found no workaround to make the full 7.1 Bitstream work. If you set the player, to do the decoding the full 7.1 HDMI LPCM does come over correctly.

It is still possible for a 7.1 DTS-HD MA Bitstream from the Oppo to be seen by the D2v as only 5.1. THIS problem may be an Oppo bug as it is easily cured by interrupting the audio stream (e.g., Chapter Forward/Chapter Back), and once the 7.1 is properly seen it stays correct thereafter.

The bug where gray scale is messed up (e.g., black levels a little too high) when sending YCbCr 4:2:2 from the Oppo to the D2v is also still there. This is a D2v bug. It appears to be related to the 1360x768p Studio RGB video ouput setting I'm using in the D2v for my Fujitsu plasma, so folks with 720p or 1080p displays may very well not see this. The workaround for me is to use YCbCr 4:4:4 from the Oppo (at 36 bit Deep Color).

The bug where multi-channel HDMI LPCM input gets screwed up if only one channel is active at a time is still there (channels missing or corrupted). Typically this is only going to happen when playing test tones from a calibration disc, so it's not something that affects "normal" content. The workaround is to use HDMI Bitstream when playing those test tones.

The bug where switching to a Component source with a Custom Crop set doesn't actually apply the Custom Crop appears to be fixed. You no longer have to toggle Edges Off/On to get the Video Source Adjust > Crop Input > Custom setting to be applied.

More testing to come.
--Bob


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post #22683 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

FIX or NO FIX - Software that can not roll back is BROKEN.

Someone needs to get Anthem to FIX that issue. I would have
never expected this from Anthem. They are just ASKING for
TROUBLE and VERY DISSATISFIED OWNERS

I completely agree with you 1000% on this. Putting software out that could fail and not providing a way to rollback to a previous version is really unacceptable. I'm a software developer, and I know if I released software and it failed and/or had problams and I didn't have a way of rolling back to the previous working version, I would be looking for a new job. On top of that, if it fails, you would have to send your unit in to the factory to get it reprogrammed, oh please. Well, I don't have the D2v, so, I don't have to worry about it. Hopefully, anyone with the D2v that installs the test firmware will not have any problems with the install. I wish much success and good luck to all the D2v owners that installs the software.
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post #22684 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 12:59 PM
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More V2.07c test results.

Audio dropouts when playing CDs at HDMI LPCM 176.4KHz from the PS3 have been fixed. There's no longer the need to use the workaround to set the PS3 to 48KHz output.

There's a new bug where sometimes the on-screen text display from pressing the Select button one or more times fails to time out and go away. The workaround is to press Select again to bring up a new text display, which will properly time out and vanish.

I have to *RETRACT* my previous report that 44.1KHz 2.0 HDMI LPCM (as from a CD) played using PLIIx-Movie no longer incorrectly outputs only to 2.1 speakers in my 5.1 speaker setup. While testing that again with the Oppo I just had another such failure. Press Select multiple times and only LF/RF/Sub are shown as active for output, and indeed those are the only speakers getting audio. After some additional testing, it appears the problem is less likely to happen than in the V2.07 firmware, but it still happens. As before, cycling to a different input and back or simply changing audio mode to anything else and back cures the problem. Now I couldn't make this fail AT ALL last night. I have no idea what might have changed between then and now. So far it still appears to be the case that this bug is ONLY showing up when the 2.0 HDMI LPCM input is 44.1KHz. In particular, 48KHz stereo input from my Comcast box and from the PS3 does not trigger this bug (NOTE: This problem existed for other input frequencies as well prior to V2.06). So right now it looks like the problem is only for 44.1KHz input, which for most people will mean just CDs. And the problem only seems to arise if you have PLIIx-Movie or PLIIx-Music set as the Mode Preset for 2.0 audio input.

I still get easily repeatable "Buzz SNAP!" noise at the start of new audio from my Pioneer Elite DV-59avi (HDMI RGB 480i and HDMI Bitstream audio).

There are two long standing bugs that both relate to settings not getting properly loaded from the Video Source Adjust menu. The common factor in both of these is that toggling Edges On/Off and back again unsticks whatever is blocking the setting from being loaded properly. One bug only occurs with Component video input and has to do with a Custom Crop not getting properly applied when you select a Source you have set up that way (in Video Source Adjust > Crop Input > Custom). A secondary effect of that was that an Edges On setting was not properly applied when LEAVING that Source to another Source where Edges On was set. That bug (both parts) is fixed in V2.07c.

The other bug affects only HDMI Video input and it is NOT fixed in V2.07c. If the video stream is interrupted and apparently if the aspect ratio is different, then the gray scale levels get subtly altered. In my system, Black levels are raised just a hair. The easiest way to see this is for me to set my Comcast box to 1080i output for all channels (using HDMI). Then when I go back to an SD channel, the pillar box bars are not black. They are a hair raised up from black. Switching to a different input and back cures this. So far you could easily believe this is a merely a Comcast cable box bug (one of many). But toggling Edges On/Off *ALSO* cures this! That means this really is a D2v bug. Something about the base video calibration levels is not getting properly reloaded when video input detection is triggered (either by the interruption in the video stream when you change channels or by the aspect ratio change). Again, this bug has been around for a long time. And it is still not fixed in V2.07c. Nick tells me there is apparently a race condition between a couple of processor threads when input detection is triggered and apparently they still don't have this one figured out for HDMI input even though the related Component video bug IS fixed.

I'm not sure why it doesn't seem to happen with other source devices. It may be specific to 1080i input (which I never use from other sources).

ETA: Note that key to these two Edges On/Off bugs (one fixed and the other not yet fixed) is that both Source Setup definitions involved have to point to the same device so that you are not getting a new HDMI handshake when you select the new source. If you are getting a new handshake anyway, then the issue can't arise.

More testing later.
--Bob


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post #22685 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja12 View Post

I completely agree with you 1000% on this. Putting software out that could fail and not providing a way to rollback to a previous version is really unacceptable. I'm a software developer, and I know if I released software and it failed and/or had problams and I didn't have a way of rolling back to the previous working version, I would be looking for a new job. On top of that, if it fails, you would have to send your unit in to the factory to get it reprogrammed, oh please. Well, I don't have the D2v, so, I don't have to worry about it. Hopefully, anyone with the D2v that installs the test firmware will not have any problems with the install. I wish much success and good luck to all the D2v owners that installs the software.

We wear the same shoes. I run SW Engineering Projects. I would
FIRE any engineer that put out SW like this that can't be rolled
back. It should always be the 1st LAW of SW Development
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post #22686 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 01:29 PM
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Hey, there's a long tradition of such stuff in software:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_day_(software)



We're spoiled because Anthem's firmware updates have, for the most part and for most people, been so straightforward. That's what makes this one unusual.

As I recall, Denon and Pioneer are still requiring AVRs to be sent to a service center for new firmware (if they even OFFER upgrades to the newer firmware shipping in newer manufacturing runs).
--Bob


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post #22687 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 01:37 PM
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Bob. Where would users be without you?

Does Anthem plan on halting firmware updates at some point? I read this thread periodically and wonder if the updates are adding new feRures or an endless series of bugfixes?

I think I would go batty?! My processor is 4 years old. There have been 2 updates. Works/sounds great.

Are endless updates part of owning an Anthem? I've beta tested a few pieces and it seems most updates fix designated issues but create others. It seems there would be perpetual wondering if everything would work perfectly after each update... That would give me a headache. Am I missing something here?


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #22688 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Bob. Where would users be without you?

Does Anthem plan on halting firmware updates at some point? I read this thread periodically and wonder if the updates are adding new feRures or an endless series of bugfixes?

I think I would go batty?! My processor is 4 years old. There have been 2 updates. Works/sounds great.

Are endless updates part of owning an Anthem? I've beta tested a few pieces and it seems most updates fix designated issues but create others. It seems there would be perpetual wondering if everything would work perfectly after each update... That would give me a headache. Am I missing something here?

Sure. Anthem's software updates are fixing real problems for folks, much of which are the result of other hardware they are also using (HDMI being what it is). The fact that most Anthem owners don't have these problems doesn't mean Anthem shouldn't try to improve life for the customers that do.

In addition, Anthem is adding new features. The Dolby Volume feature is expected shortly.

The experience with the D2v is not unlike the first months with the D2 when it first shipped. The current D2 firmware is really quite stable and yet there are a few lingering problems and the most common recurring theme here from D2 owners is that they want Anthem to do yet another firmware update for the D2 -- sooner rather than later.

Most of the posts you read here are from folks (like me) testing public beta ("test") releases. These are on a password protected download page. They never even show up on the normal download page most owners visit. By the time these releases become "official" they have been pretty well vetted, so that it really does make sense for most owners to do the upgrade.
--Bob


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post #22689 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Hey, there's a long tradition of such stuff in software:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_day_(software)


--Bob

I don't think the Wiki Page applies. Those are examples of changes
in Functionality or Protocol - like NCP to TCP/IP. That is why they
are called flag days - it is like saying This is a NEW DAY. Even in
the case of NCP to TCP/IP - you could roll it back but then all you
would have is NCP and NOT TCP/IP.

And sure - I have 42 years of engineering under my Belt. I know
well some people/projects/companies have written SW that does
not roll back.

My Opinion is not to let anyone get away with that and no one has
ever gotten away with that ON-MY-WATCH. My Engineering
experiences is all in the Telecom world where things do not go down,
where fault tolerance is #1 and in-service upgrades are the ORDER
of the day without ever dropping a connection or a packet.
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post #22690 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drhankz View Post

My Opinion is not to let anyone get away with that and no one has
ever gotten away with that ON-MY-WATCH. My Engineering
experiences is all in the Telecom world where things do not go down,
where fault tolerance is #1 and in-service upgrades are the ORDER
of the day without ever dropping a connection or a packet.

I've done telecom related software too, and it is a very different proposition than consumer electronics. Six to twelve months of acceptance testing to get carrier grade reliability aren't going to work when you are making hardware compatibility fixes in an environment where there is a 1 year product lifecycle.

However I do feel that the possibility that a user error could end up with the equipment wedged to the point where it has to go back to the factory is unreasonable.

"Nature Abhors a Vacuum Tube" -  
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post #22691 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 02:51 PM
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I suggest we wait and see what warnings apply when this firmware eventually becomes "official".

However, as "test" software, it is unfortunate that many folks who could help out with testing will, quite rightly, decide the risk is too high to do this install.
--Bob


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post #22692 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 03:34 PM
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Bob, the notes mention "major" video code changes, any chance that includes horizontal squeeze (Panamorph "Mode 2") scaling?

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do,
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post #22693 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Hey, there's a long tradition of such stuff in software:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_day_(software)



We're spoiled because Anthem's firmware updates have, for the most part and for most people, been so straightforward. That's what makes this one unusual.

As I recall, Denon and Pioneer are still requiring AVRs to be sent to a service center for new firmware (if they even OFFER upgrades to the newer firmware shipping in newer manufacturing runs).
--Bob

In my place of business, that's still completely unacceptable. If the software is not working, it must be rolled back regardless of the cost. Before we release any software, it goes through a rigorous amount of capacity, stress, and fail-over testing before we release it to our customers. And once again, we are talking about updating software which means if it's a major software update, the first step is to take a backup of the existing software first. If the install fails, collect diagnostic of the failure, send to the technical team, pop up a message to inform the customer that the install failed, and re-install the previous working software. Every software install should never put a customer in a worse position. Anyway, that's all I'm going to say about software upgrades. Let's get back to the "tweaking" and enjoying our toys.
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post #22694 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

I've done telecom related software too, and it is a very different proposition than consumer electronics. Six to twelve months of acceptance testing to get carrier grade reliability aren't going to work when you are making hardware compatibility fixes in an environment where there is a 1 year product lifecycle.

However I do feel that the possibility that a user error could end up with the equipment wedged to the point where it has to go back to the factory is unreasonable.

I would never expect a Consumer SW Company to invest in Telecom
Class SW - but still - compare the level of Sophistication of the End
User - Carrier versus Consumer?

If I were developing Consumer class SW - I'd be sure to get it RIGHT
because the Consumer is clueless on what even went wrong.

All Consumers are not Beta Testing Bob Pariseau kind of guys.
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post #22695 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Bob, the notes mention "major" video code changes, any chance that includes horizontal squeeze (Panamorph "Mode 2") scaling?

Not that I can find.

There are no feature changes visible in the Setup or Video Source Adjust menu settings.
--Bob


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post #22696 of 43085 Old 07-11-2009, 08:09 PM
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I need some advise from Anthem owners.

I am looking into getting a Anthem AVM 30 & the Anthem PVA 5 new from a local store for around $2500CND ($2100US).

I am currently using a Marantz 7500 to power a set of Paradigm Studio speakers. I use the set mostly for music and for the weekly movie. Will I notice a big difference between the two setups? I would love to go with the latest version from Anthem but is out of my price range. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
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post #22697 of 43085 Old 07-12-2009, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by allEars-here View Post

I need some advise from Anthem owners.

I am looking into getting a Anthem AVM 30 & the Anthem PVA 5 new from a local store for around $2500CND ($2100US).

I am currently using a Marantz 7500 to power a set of Paradigm Studio speakers. I use the set mostly for music and for the weekly movie. Will I notice a big difference between the two setups? I would love to go with the latest version from Anthem but is out of my price range. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

I can't give you any direct comparison, but it might help to know that from an audio perspective, the AVM 30 should sound basically identical to the original AVM 50 (without ARC). So any info you find on audio from the AVM 50 (without ARC) would be applicable. Look for older reviews using Google.
--Bob


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post #22698 of 43085 Old 07-12-2009, 06:25 PM
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This update is too scary for me. I couldn't live without my pre pro for weeks while waiting for it to be fixed at the factory.

I hope the official release won't require factory reprogramming if something happens with the install.

My Theater -
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post #22699 of 43085 Old 07-12-2009, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

As I recall, Denon and Pioneer are still requiring AVRs to be sent to a service center for new firmware (if they even OFFER upgrades to the newer firmware shipping in newer manufacturing runs).
--Bob

Bob.... that's not correct..

Pioneer is indeed skimpy on FW updates, but for the newer models, there are those that have been updating them in the field.

Denon has been allowing updates over the internet since the advent of the x308 lineup, including the AVP... it's much the same as updating the Oppo over the internet (although it takes much longer.) Most of the updates have been for bug fixes, but the most recent one for the AVP and 5308 added Denon Link 4. They have also offered paid updates in the past for the 4308 and 3808 for Audsysey Dynamic EQ and Volume, Rhapsody, HDMI CEC and Sirius capability (that was a total package for $100).

In my opinion, the antiquated RS-232 updates of the Anthem represent one of the few blemishes on this otherwise stellar product line up... it's neither convenient, simple or with out issues on certain hardware setups.
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post #22700 of 43085 Old 07-12-2009, 07:21 PM
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Bob.... that's not correct..

Pioneer is indeed skimpy on FW updates, but for the newer models, there are those that have been updating them in the field.

Denon has been allowing updates over the internet since the advent of the x308 lineup, including the AVP... it's much the same as updating the Oppo over the internet (although it takes much longer.) Most of the updates have been for bug fixes, but the most recent one for the AVP and 5308 added Denon Link 4. They have also offered paid updates in the past for the 4308 and 3808 for Audsysey Dynamic EQ and Volume, Rhapsody, HDMI CEC and Sirius capability (that was a total package for $100).

In my opinion, the antiquated RS-232 updates of the Anthem represent one of the few blemishes on this otherwise stellar product line up... it's neither convenient, simple or with out issues on certain hardware setups.

Got it. Thanks. And if you decide you don't like the update and want to roll back to the prior version?

I'm just teasing. I agree that Anthem should move away from RS232 for updates.
--Bob


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post #22701 of 43085 Old 07-12-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


In my opinion, the antiquated RS-232 updates of the Anthem represent one of the few blemishes on this otherwise stellar product line up... it's neither convenient, simple or with out issues on certain hardware setups.

I could not possibly agree with you more.

Bob knows this too, because he can compare to the extreme ease of upgrading the Oppo BD83.


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post #22702 of 43085 Old 07-12-2009, 07:26 PM
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I could not possibly agree with you more.

Bob knows this too, because he can compare to the extreme ease of upgrading the Oppo BD83.

Ah, but we beta testers are not allowed to talk about the Oppo updating issues real customers don't see!
--Bob


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post #22703 of 43085 Old 07-13-2009, 05:29 AM
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Hey, there's a long tradition of such stuff in software:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_day_(software)



We're spoiled because Anthem's firmware updates have, for the most part and for most people, been so straightforward. That's what makes this one unusual.

As I recall, Denon and Pioneer are still requiring AVRs to be sent to a service center for new firmware (if they even OFFER upgrades to the newer firmware shipping in newer manufacturing runs).
--Bob

Also. don't forget that this software has not been released to the general public. Anybody that logs onto the password protected site should already fully understand that they are using test software that is not released yet to the general public and may have problems.

Ed
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post #22704 of 43085 Old 07-13-2009, 08:22 AM
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Also. don't forget that this software has not been released to the general public. Anybody that logs onto the password protected site should already fully understand that they are using test software that is not released yet to the general public and may have problems.

Ed

Nick told me the V2.07b "test" firmware (the one with the HDMI YCbCr problem) was put up to address a critical audio problem being experienced by one particular customer. I don't know what that problem actually was.

Because of the YCbCr problem in it, I think they were forced to put up V2.07c sooner than they wanted.

That said, we still won't know until the next "official" software release whether it will come with the scary warnings or not.

-------------------------------------

I've not found any additional issues with V2.07c, and it looks and sounds great in my setup. So the problems are related to getting the content going in the first place -- HDMI handshakes that are a bit balkier than "official" V2.07 and some brief audio corruption now and again as a new audio stream starts. I've sent all my results to Anthem.

ps: Software updates for the PS3 have NEVER allowed roll-back. And yes they've gotten bitten by that from time to time. It's only very recently that they provided a mechanism to allow the user to try a re-install of the newest firmware if the first install left the player bricked. But still no roll-back, and if the re-install doesn't work it's back to the service center.
--Bob


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post #22705 of 43085 Old 07-13-2009, 08:26 AM
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I've not found any additional issues with V2.07c, and it looks and sounds great in my setup.

Thanks for the info. Better than 2.07 or just in general?

My Theater -
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post #22706 of 43085 Old 07-13-2009, 08:31 AM
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Thanks for the info. Better than 2.07 or just in general?

Just in general. There's one specific video improvement I've found related to SD-DVD playback from the Oppo, but I can't go into details because it involves beta Oppo software.

Other than that, I haven't yet found any specific cases of audio or video better than "official" V2.07. Calibrations are unchanged. I do like the fact that my Custom Crop settings now work as they are supposed to.

If there are audio/video improvements, they are fairly subtle (as is the case with the Oppo thing I alluded to above). So maybe I'll spot more as time goes on.
--Bob


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post #22707 of 43085 Old 07-13-2009, 12:56 PM
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Here is my latest Arc run with the new front stage.
What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Jeremy
LL
LL
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AVM 50 firmware V1.31 has appeared this afternoon on Anthem's password protected download page. The "official" firmware version for the AVM 50 remains V1.33, so presumably this older version (from March 2008) has been put up to help diagnose a specific problem some AVM 50 customer is having.
--Bob


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post #22709 of 43085 Old 07-13-2009, 03:41 PM
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Here is my latest Arc run with the new front stage.
What do you guys think?

Thanks,

Jeremy

ARC is Measuring way too much bass from LF/RF -- particularly around 50Hz -- so it is acting pretty aggressively to counter that. This includes starting the crossover for those at a higher frequency than it is using for the other speakers. This may give you a poorer transition between LF/RF and the sub.

If you can tone down the bass LF and RF are producing, that would be good. If they have satellite subs or powered woofers, there will likely be controls for this. Or there may be a bass port you need to close. Or you may need to move them further away from the wall or put some bass traps behind them.

You also have a hole in Center around 150Hz. There are some signs in the other speakers that there may be some room response issues near there, but nothing nearly as dramatic as in C. ARC has corrected quite a bit of that but you still have a residual error of around 3-4dB which is enough to be worth some effort. This could be due to the mounting of Center or how closely it is placed to reflective surfaces.
--Bob


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post #22710 of 43085 Old 07-13-2009, 03:53 PM
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Thanks Bob,

I just picked up Studio 100s and a CC690. Subs are 2 JL F113s and still have the Polk RTI6s for the four surrounds. I have Auralex corner traps and panels at first reflection and rear wall. The 100s are away from the front wall 16" and 22" from the side. It is a front projection setup and the center is below the screen 8" from the wall.

Jeremy
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