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post #22861 of 42998 Old 07-20-2009, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by usxplong View Post

Thanks Bob. No it is not a bad thing but I wanted to do the 24 conversion by d2v. I will make the adjustments as you suggested.
Thanks again.

I think what you may be missing is that for film-based Blu-Ray movies, the content on disc is ALREADY 1080p/24. So there's no conversion needed.

You only need conversion when film-based content has been previously raised to video frame rates via the telecine process. This will be the case for SD movies on SD-DVD disc (which are on disc as 480i/60), and for SD movies on SDTV (480i/60) and HD movies on HDTV (1080i/60). Note that to get the benefits of conversion in the D2v you must send this stuff to the D2v at 480i and 1080i respectively, otherwise whatever is doing the scaling ahead of the D2v will have already screwed things up.

[ETA: Note in particular that some HDTV movies are really just SD-DVD transfers that have been upscaled for broadcast. Which means attempting reverse telecine on them probably won't work well.]

But again, for film-based movies on Blu-Ray, if the player is set to output 1080p/24 then the player isn't doing anything. That's what's already coming off the disc.
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post #22862 of 42998 Old 07-20-2009, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Watch any film-based blu-Ray movie. Go to the closing credits vertical scroll. ..................
--Bob

Thanks for the very detailed explanation Bob. It will make it much easier for me to run through tonight and should eliminate the guess work (which I hate).

CF
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post #22863 of 42998 Old 07-20-2009, 04:44 PM
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"Test" firmware V2.07e installed without problems on my D2v.

The video portion of the handshake appears robust. I haven't spotted any problems.

The audio still has problems starting up a new audio stream. Occasionally, you will get a brief "BRAAAP!" noise as a new audio format starts up.

A new problem with V2.07e is that the audio is incorrectly muted when you power up the D2v. This may be limited to Optical Digital audio input. If it happens you can cure it by switching to a different input and back.
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post #22864 of 42998 Old 07-20-2009, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The D2 is limited to 96 KHz input (max 5.1 channels). The D2v will take up to 192KHz input (max 7.1 channels).

Check out the audio only Blu-Ray discs from Acoustic Reality (e.g. Vivaldi The Four Seasons) and from 2L (e.g. Divertimenti), both available from Amazon.
--Bob

O.K. So what would happen if I play a 192KHz BR-audio disc thru my D2?
Would it down-sample to 96KHz or would it play the lossy 'core' audio?
Are you trying to get me to upgrade to the D2v?

I will be honest. If Anthem were to offer me the same deal I got when I went from my AVM30 to the D2 I would give it much more serious consideration. I paid the difference from the list price of the AVM30 and the D2 (plus the xx% discount from the dealer). It doesn't seem that Anthem wants to offer that same kind of deal to those who want to upgrade from the D2 to D2v, if my math is correct.

That having been said, if the only thing I'm missing is 192KHz in, then I'll suffer thru with my D2.
But I am interested in what audio improvements you think the the D2v offers, other than 192KHz in, which is, for now at least, a very minor consideration.
Tom

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post #22865 of 42998 Old 07-20-2009, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

O.K. So what would happen if I play a 192KHz BR-audio disc thru my D2?
Would it down-sample to 96KHz or would it play the lossy 'core' audio?
Are you trying to get me to upgrade to the D2v?

I will be honest. If Anthem were to offer me the same deal I got when I went from my AVM30 to the D2 I would give it much more serious consideration. I paid the difference from the list price of the AVM30 and the D2 (plus the xx% discount from the dealer). It doesn't seem that Anthem wants to offer that same kind of deal to those who want to upgrade from the D2 to D2v, if my math is correct.

That having been said, if the only thing I'm missing is 192KHz in, then I'll suffer thru with my D2.
But I am interested in what audio improvements you think the the D2v offers, other than 192KHz in, which is, for now at least, a very minor consideration.
Tom

The source will discover during the handshake that the D2 is limited to 96KHz. Usually the source will generate 96KHz output from the 192KHz content. For things like TrueHD and DTS-HD this is straightforward. They are designed to make it easy for the decoder to produce less than the full sampling rate.

But if for some silly reason the source can't do that, then yes, you will get the lossy "compatibility" track instead.

7.1 channel HDMI input is the other big one right now. Dolby Volume, when it ships, will also be a difference. For folks who like playing with HDMI Bitstream, the option to do the decoding in the D2v itself is also a difference.

That said, I was surprised to discover that my D2v sounded noticeably better than my D2 even on "normal" 5.1 tracks. I don't have a good explanation for that. I can only assume they made some improvements they aren't talking about.
--Bob

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post #22866 of 42998 Old 07-20-2009, 08:06 PM
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I got some more details from Nick on the hardware dependency for the "test" V1.47c firmware (D2 and AVM 50). As we surmised, the firmware is dependent on some rolling hardware changes they made in manufacturing way back when. Normally, firmware releases discover just what hardware is actually in the unit and adjust accordingly. The whole idea is that these hardware changes are not feature changes, but simply stuff done in the course of manufacturing a product over time as part availability changes. The end user is not SUPPOSED to be able to find any difference. The firmware is supposed to conceal all that.

Well V1.47c doesn't work with older versions of the hardware. As it turns out, there are two things an owner can see through the vents that will guarantee you have hardware which is new enough. If your video board (the large, upper board just underneath the vents at the top of the chassis) is colored red, or if your power supply doesn't have the big toroidal transformer of the original power supply, then you are good to go. (I.e., it's not actually the power supply, it's that IF you happen to HAVE that newer power supply, then you must ALSO have the other newer hardware V1.47c requires.)

But if you have the original power supply, and if you have either a green or gray video board, you MAY ALSO be good to go. It's just that there's no easy way for an owner to tell. So to be safe, don't install V1.47c in your D2 or AVM 50 unless you can see you have either a red video board or the power supply without the toroidal transformer (or both).

Presumably, by the time this firmware becomes "official" additional work will have been done on it so that owners don't have to worry about any of this.
--Bob

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post #22867 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 12:29 AM
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Well I can't really recommend the "test" V2.07e firmware. Although video seems more reliable than with V2.07c, audio has gone the other way. The "BRAAAAP!" noises still occur when a new audio format starts, but now it seems to be far too easy to end up with no audio at all -- requiring a cycling of inputs to get audio back.

Loss of audio seems to be common for the source selected at power up. Loss of audio is also easy to produce when playing a CD on the PS3 using HDMI LPCM 176.4KHz output.

But I should add that once you get the audio going, the resulting audio and video are very good indeed.

All the details have been passed on to Anthem.
--Bob

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post #22868 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I got some more details from Nick on the hardware dependency for the "test" V1.47c firmware (D2 and AVM 50). As we surmised, the firmware is dependent on some rolling hardware changes they made in manufacturing way back when. Normally, firmware releases discover just what hardware is actually in the unit and adjust accordingly. The whole idea is that these hardware changes are not feature changes, but simply stuff done in the course of manufacturing a product over time as part availability changes. The end user is not SUPPOSED to be able to find any difference. The firmware is supposed to conceal all that.

Well V1.47c doesn't work with older versions of the hardware. As it turns out, there are two things an owner can see through the vents that will guarantee you have hardware which is new enough. If your video board (the large, upper board just underneath the vents at the top of the chassis) is colored red, or if your power supply doesn't have the big toroidal transformer of the original power supply, then you are good to go. (I.e., it's not actually the power supply, it's that IF you happen to HAVE that newer power supply, then you must ALSO have the other newer hardware V1.47c requires.)

But if you have the original power supply, and if you have either a green or gray video board, you MAY ALSO be good to go. It's just that there's no easy way for an owner to tell. So to be safe, don't install V1.47c in your D2 or AVM 50 unless you can see you have either a red video board or the power supply without the toroidal transformer (or both).

Presumably, by the time this firmware becomes "official" additional work will have been done on it so that owners don't have to worry about any of this.
--Bob

The big toroidal transformer is it round, grey and in the right front corner ?

What does the newer power supply look like ?
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post #22869 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 09:06 AM
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Bob,
Just got my Oppo BD-83 this morning and set it up with my D2v and all went smoothly as did the beta firmware update by USB. Have a couple of questions.

1. should I use Video Direct for Blu-ray?
2. should SD movies be set to 480i out?
3. how do you set output from the Oppo separately for BD and SD?
4. should I ignore the setting for speakers in the Oppo setup menu, ie. leave them at default?

I have set sound to bitstream and it sounds a little more detailed than PCM from my PS3.
thanks,
John

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post #22870 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

Bob,
Just got my Oppo BD-83 this morning and set it up with my D2v and all went smoothly as did the beta firmware update by USB. Have a couple of questions.

1. should I use Video Direct for Blu-ray?
2. should SD movies be set to 480i out?
3. how do you set output from the Oppo separately for BD and SD?
4. shold I ignore the setting for speakers in the Oppo setup menu, ie leave them at default?

I have set sound to bitstream and it sounds a little more detailed than PCM from my PS3.
thanks,
John

You can use either Source Direct or explicit 1080p. The Oppo's video processing is good enough that I'm perfectly comfortable using explicit 1080p for both Blu-Ray and SD-DVD. Explicit 1080p means you also have access to some of the convenience features in the Oppo's video processor such as the zoom modes.

For the firmware you are using, my settings for use with the D2v were:

Explicit 1080p, "Multi-system", "16:9 Wide/Auto", HDMI YCbCr 4:4:4, 36-bit video, 1080p/24 Auto, DVD-24 OFF. All Picture controls at 0 (factory default).

Secondary Audio OFF, Dynamic Range Compression OFF, SACD PCM.

You can use either HDMI LPCM or HDMI Bitstream interchangeably. In testing I switch between them frequently and basically there is no difference. There are two exceptions: For CDs, use HDMI LPCM because the D2v does not decode the special data found in HDCD bitstreams (and the Oppo does). For SD-DVD use HDMI Bitstream and you don't have to think about whether the disk your are playing is in DTS-ES format (the Oppo doesn't decode the matrixed rear channel in DTS-ES format SD-DVD tracks, but the D2v does.

There are a few bugs in this setup that only affect HDMI LPCM and a few bugs that only affect HDMI Bitstream, but I can't go into details and for the most part you are unlikely to run into them. Just remember that if something unusual seems to be happening you can switch between LPCM and Bitstream on the fly to see if that's a workaround.

The speaker settings in the Oppo are ignored if you are using HDMI for audio.
--Bob

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post #22871 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 09:34 AM
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This is perhaps one of the first and definitely the most detailed review of the D2v and P5 to date with a host of screenshots.

http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

The translation is not so bad. One can understand what is being said clearly. Enjoy the read. I don't know if it was posted here before.
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post #22872 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 09:59 AM
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Bob,
As always, thanks for your help.

John

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post #22873 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haroon Malik View Post

This is perhaps one of the first and definitely the most detailed review of the D2v and P5 to date with a host of screenshots.

http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

The translation is not so bad. One can understand what is being said clearly. Enjoy the read. I don't know if it was posted here before.

Sort of like reading one of those japanese/english manuals...

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post #22874 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 12:57 PM
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Thanks, Bob!
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post #22875 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 02:51 PM
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The big toroidal transformer in the older D2, is it round, grey and in the right front corner ?

What does the newer power supply look like ?

Thanks
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post #22876 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thestewman View Post

The big toroidal transformer in the older D2, is it round, grey and in the right front corner ?

What does the newer power supply look like ?

Thanks

I know it is in my AVM-50....Not sure about the D-2 though.
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post #22877 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 06:52 PM
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Why would the main power supply make any difference whatsoever for firmware?
Unless the firmware regulates the voltage, etc. for the entire unit and the chip that controls the power supply was changed out as well and the code that communicated with the old chip was left out of the new firmware.

If that is true, it seems the unit wouldn't operate at all or would be very squirrelly.

 

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post #22878 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tngiloy View Post

O.K. So what would happen if I play a 192KHz BR-audio disc thru my D2?
Would it down-sample to 96KHz or would it play the lossy 'core' audio?
Are you trying to get me to upgrade to the D2v?

I will be honest. If Anthem were to offer me the same deal I got when I went from my AVM30 to the D2 I would give it much more serious consideration. I paid the difference from the list price of the AVM30 and the D2 (plus the xx% discount from the dealer). It doesn't seem that Anthem wants to offer that same kind of deal to those who want to upgrade from the D2 to D2v, if my math is correct.

That having been said, if the only thing I'm missing is 192KHz in, then I'll suffer thru with my D2.
But I am interested in what audio improvements you think the the D2v offers, other than 192KHz in, which is, for now at least, a very minor consideration.
Tom

Wait, I thought the D2 took all digital input and upsampled it to 24/192?
Why are we talking about a 24/96 limitation now?

If we're talking about 24/96, MLP\\TrueHD is "limited" to 24/96 for 5.1 and 24/192 for 2 channel.
I don't see this as limitation of the D2 vs D2v but of the codec itself.
2-channel 24/192 is not common in source material AFAIK and 24/96 is not common in 5.1 DVD-A either or Blu-Ray.

Color me confused

 

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post #22879 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Why would the main power supply make any difference whatsoever for firmware?
Unless the firmware regulates the voltage, etc. for the entire unit and the chip that controls the power supply was changed out as well and the code that communicated with the old chip was left out of the new firmware.

If that is true, it seems the unit wouldn't operate at all or would be very squirrelly.

It doesn't. The power supply is an easy indicator of what video board is inside, as they switched both at the same time.

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post #22880 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

Wait, I thought the D2 took all digital input and upsampled it to 24/192?
Why are we talking about a 24/96 limitation now?

If we're talking about 24/96, MLP\\TrueHD is "limited" to 24/96 for 5.1 and 24/192 for 2 channel.
I don't see this as limitation of the D2 vs D2v but of the codec itself.
2-channel 24/192 is not common in source material AFAIK and 24/96 is not common in 5.1 DVD-A either or Blu-Ray.

Color me confused

The *INPUT* to the D2 is limited to 96KHz.

The input is upsampled to 192KHz prior to audio processing.

The D2v supports 192 KHz input. It also supports 7.1 input vs. 5.1 input for the D2. Both are capable of 7.1 speaker output.
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post #22881 of 42998 Old 07-21-2009, 10:07 PM
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Ok I had a huge problem setting up the new D2V. First of all we could not get HDMI sound to work, the input devices were set up correctly and finally we just turned on and off the D2 and we finally got sound. At times when say switching from a Blu Ray Player to a DSS box I find that nothing happens and we have to either reboot the DSS or the Anthem or Both, any suggestions you experts.

Thanks for all.
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post #22882 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ragdog View Post

Ok I had a huge problem setting up the new D2V. First of all we could not get HDMI sound to work, the input devices were set up correctly and finally we just turned on and off the D2 and we finally got sound. At times when say switching from a Blu Ray Player to a DSS box I find that nothing happens and we have to either reboot the DSS or the Anthem or Both, any suggestions you experts.

Thanks for all.

This is not all that uncommon with the D2v. I often have to turn on and off the D2v when switching sources, especially to the PS3. I also have to switch the D2v off/on at times when starting a video game on the PS3 as I get garbled sound.

The D2v could use a command that forces a new handshake between the source being used. I know it can be done by switching sources or turning the unit off/on. I have tried switching sources and at times it does nto work and I have to turn theunit off/on.

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post #22883 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 08:47 AM
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It is totally UNcommon for me......I can honestly say I have had this issue maybe twice in the past 3 or 4 months that I have been using my D2V.
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post #22884 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by spiderv6 View Post

It is totally UNcommon for me......I can honestly say I have had this issue maybe twice in the past 3 or 4 months that I have been using my D2V.

Same here -- with the exception of the "test" V2.07c firmware that had some handshaking problems that now appear to be fixed in "test" V2.07e firmware.

I use Component video and Optical audio from my Comcast HD/DVR, but that's not due to handshaking problems.
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post #22885 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by spiderv6 View Post

It is totally UNcommon for me......I can honestly say I have had this issue maybe twice in the past 3 or 4 months that I have been using my D2V.

I agree, once I got all my HDMI cables updated to High Speed HDMI 1.3a Category 2 andseated properly, I have not had any of these problems. Maybe just like spiderv6, once or twice in the last few months...
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post #22886 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I agree, once I got all my HDMI cables updated to High Speed HDMI 1.3a Category 2 andseated properly, I have not had any of these problems. Maybe just like spiderv6, once or twice in the last few months...

I have had problems with my Oppo 83 and popcorn hour NMT. I ordered a new set of HDMI cables from bluejeanscables and will post back on what i find. The problems i have encountered are limited to when I switch sources or play a new source. Again these problems are not consistent so it is hard to figure out what is the cause.
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post #22887 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 11:52 AM
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Thats exactly what I was experiencing, I'm not sure why the alignment on the Anthems HDMI sockets are so touchy(make sure there is no torsion in any direction other then straight in and have no pulling in one direction or another), but the other problem for me was directly related to the cable I had going out from the D2v to the display, I thought it was a good cable, but I guess it would be it did not have enough bandwidth to carry full 1080p which resulted in issues for me.

Mono price sells the HDMI socket savers which have been very helpful for people to relieve the strain on the sockets.

DO NOT buy from anywhere else, as others have had problems with different manufacturers, Monoprice ones are known to be good from other D2, D2v, AVM50 & AVM50v members trial and error history.
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post #22888 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

Thats exactly what I was experiencing, I'm not sure why the alignment on the Anthems HDMI sockets are so touchy(make sure there is no torsion in any direction other then straight in and have no pulling in one direction or another), but the other problem for me was directly related to the cable I had going out from the D2v to the display, I thought it was a good cable, but I guess it would be it did not have enough bandwidth to carry full 1080p which resulted in issues for me.

Mono price sells the HDMI socket savers which have been very helpful for people to relieve the strain on the sockets.

DO NOT buy from anywhere else, as others have had problems with different manufacturers, Monoprice ones are known to be good from other D2, D2v, AVM50 & AVM50v members trial and error history.

I have monoprice and still have occasional problems. Not with my PVR. It is normally with my PS3 and occasionally with the Oppo83. I just put up with it and all that use the system know that all they have to do is force a new handshake and all will be well.

If the cable is not inserted correctly a new handshake should not correct the problem as the cable has not been moved.........

Even with these occasional glitches I still think the Dv2 is the best pre/pro at its price point in the market today.

Mike

"A banker: the person who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining and wants it back the minute it rains" - Mark Twain
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post #22889 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CycloneMike View Post

If the cable is not inserted correctly a new handshake should not correct the problem as the cable has not been moved.........

Actually that's not true. The handshake is unforgiving. If the signal is marginal it may just give up after a couple retries. But a marginal signal might be good enough to let it work most of the time. There are high and low bandwidth parts of the signal with the low bandwidth stuff driving the handshake. Cables, plugs and sockets degrade the high and low bandwidth stuff differently -- sometimes the low bandwidth stuff gets degraded more.

So it really is worthwhile checking whether your plugs are all properly inserted in the sockets, with no cable weight stress (or whatever) tugging them in any direction.

This stuff really is a pain in the neck to sort out.

Try temporarily setting up input and output to use no higher than 1080i. If that works without problems then it suggests a cable problem. If 1080i also has problems, try temporarily using 480p (not 480i) input and output (the simplest HDMI connection). Again, if THAT works without problems then it suggests a cabling problem.
--Bob

Anthem D2/D2v/AVM50/AVM50v/ARC1 tweaking guide. -- Need personal consultation/training? PM me!
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post #22890 of 42998 Old 07-22-2009, 03:23 PM
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Agreed Bob, I don't use the port savers, but after aligning all my cables with precision, I have an extremely rare issue with those types of problems....
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