Denon Preamp/Processor? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 359 Old 05-30-2006, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Hello,

A Denon rep mentioned that he heard they were working on a new Preamp but wasn't sure if they were releasing it. Any rumors or confirmations on this? I've listened to $5000 integrated units and they still sound like crap compared to seperates of the same value in my opinion.

I'd love to get a new preamp/processor to replace my current unit as soon as possible. Denon usually seems pretty cutting edge with DTS formats etc. I'd like to get a preamp/processor with True HD Dolby, DD Plus and DTS HD as soon as these are an option on my next preamp. I guess the first DTS HD video was just released so I'm hoping to see some equipment soon.
boe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 359 Old 05-30-2006, 06:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ultra 150 pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Western mass
Posts: 1,069
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 17
careful there! youll have lots of denon owners after you soon
ultra 150 pilot is offline  
post #3 of 359 Old 05-30-2006, 06:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!



I heard ~4 years ago they were going to do 2 of them. A really high end one, and a cheaper one.

Never happened.

I heard early last year, from a reputable source, that they were going to do one based on the 4806 receiver. Was supposed to have come out Aug 2005.

Never happened.

So it ain't here until it's here. And it ain't here.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #4 of 359 Old 05-31-2006, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!



I heard ~4 years ago they were going to do 2 of them. A really high end one, and a cheaper one.

Never happened.

I heard early last year, from a reputable source, that they were going to do one based on the 4806 receiver. Was supposed to have come out Aug 2005.

Never happened.

So it ain't here until it's here. And it ain't here.

The rep I spoke to at CES said that everyone was asking him about them - strange - if that is what your clients want don't you think they'd want to give them what they ask for? He said he'd get one himself if they made one.
boe is offline  
post #5 of 359 Old 05-31-2006, 08:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I laugh about it, but if they did one, I'd certainly consider it.

My theory is that as soon as major changes in receivers slow, *then* maybe the "majors" will go back and do pre/pros to keep profits up. All of Sony, Denon, Marantz, and Yamaha among others have done processors in the past. I had a Sony TA-E9000ES for 4 years and its build quality alone approaches what I have now.

After HDMI inputs and outputs, and the new DD and DTS formats percolate through, maybe then.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #6 of 359 Old 05-31-2006, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I still have the TA-E9000ES - would love to send it to my bedroom to replace my even OLDER processor but I'm not buying till I can get a decent processor with TrueDD and DTS HD. You may find it hard to believe but I saw the TA-E9000ES for sale - new- just last year at Magnolia (I think it was Magnolia - might have been another store on that same street).
boe is offline  
post #7 of 359 Old 06-01-2006, 06:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
Mr. Brownstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Virginia
Posts: 719
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I don't know, but I think it's a bit presumptuous for people to laugh at the notion. Denon used to make stereo preamps, because I owned one (a PRA-1500) for many years. Good, quiet piece. XLR outputs and a subwoofer output.

If Denon were to offer an A/V preamp, they'd probably feel obligated to offer matching five- and seven-channel power amps (probably at two power levels, say 100W and 200W), and I'm not so sure they want to devote resources in that direction. Plus those preamp/power amp combinations would compete with their flagship receivers. Tough call.

Personally, as a separates owner, I think a Denon preamp at under $2,000 would be a welcome addition to the marketplace.
Mr. Brownstone is offline  
post #8 of 359 Old 06-01-2006, 06:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsmith901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 8,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Lots of companies used to make lots of things they no longer do. H/k used to make fine separates in the Citation and Signature lines - wish they would start those up again.

"The truth is out there!"
dsmith901 is offline  
post #9 of 359 Old 06-01-2006, 09:25 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jose_L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lafayette, La. U.S.A.
Posts: 893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's not gonna happen ....

Why would they spend extra production cost to sell a couple of hundred vs the thousand's they already sell in receivers.

And "IF" they did, you can bet it would cost >$2000 ...

More than likely it would cost more than their receiver w/ similar features. Why ? Because it would be a limited ed./run sort of thing and they would figure people purchasing this unit would pay more.

So if you want a Denon Pre-pro, just buy a Denon receiver and use as such.

Regards,
Jose
Jose_L is offline  
post #10 of 359 Old 06-01-2006, 10:44 AM
Member
 
jenkman61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: RTP, NC
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
From the 2004 CES show Denon previewed pre/pros and amps. So what has happened? I thought I remembered that they had shown prototypes. Wish they would manufacture these.
jenkman61 is offline  
post #11 of 359 Old 06-04-2006, 07:53 PM
Senior Member
 
slybasil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I still own a denon 1500 pre amp with denon 2800 amp and 660 tuner. still sound and look great. Now I am upgrading to surround sound. Is anyone familiar with this system? The amp has switching for pair of "A" speakers and "B" speakers. You can play either pair or both at same time. I was wondring....can this amp be used in a surround sound system for two front speakers "A" and center speaker "B".
slybasil is offline  
post #12 of 359 Old 06-05-2006, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
You may want to let them know if you are interested - worst case scenario you waisted 1 whole minute of your life letting them know it would be a good idea. contactus@denonnj.com
boe is offline  
post #13 of 359 Old 06-05-2006, 09:14 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Keenan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 27,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_L View Post

So if you want a Denon Pre-pro, just buy a Denon receiver and use as such.

Regards,
Jose

That's what I do, darn near impossible to find a separate pre-pro with the capabilities and quality of a Denon receiver for the price.
Keenan is offline  
post #14 of 359 Old 06-05-2006, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_L View Post

It's not gonna happen ....

Why would they spend extra production cost to sell a couple of hundred vs the thousand's they already sell in receivers.

So if you want a Denon Pre-pro, just buy a Denon receiver and use as such.

Regards,
Jose

I would like to see them make it because if you use their receiver as a preamp, you are creating unnecessary heat, drawing unnecessary power (even when not powering speakers) and adding line noise for an internal amp not used.

There must be a market - see Sherwood Newcastle 965, Outlaw Audio 970, 990, Emotiva LMC-1, DMC-1, Rotel 1068, Boston Acoustics AVP7 etc.

The Rotels are sluggish in moving forward so I can't depend on them, I have a personal issue which I need to come to grips with before considering Sherwood - kind of like buying a product from Realistic. I'm not familiar with the others but I'm hoping to see this market grow again like it was when Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Sony all made preamps.

I realize Classe, ML, Anthem, and many other super high end processors will be out in a year but I'd like something more towards the $1500-2000 range that has reasonable bang for the buck.
boe is offline  
post #15 of 359 Old 06-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jose_L's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lafayette, La. U.S.A.
Posts: 893
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm not saying there isn't a market, just not a large one like the receiver market.

It's just not big enough for the large receiver companies to go after. imho

Regards,
Jose
Jose_L is offline  
post #16 of 359 Old 06-05-2006, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_L View Post

I'm not saying there isn't a market, just not a large one like the receiver market.

It's just not big enough for the large receiver companies to go after. imho

Regards,
Jose

You may be right - I'm just REALLY hoping you are wrong.
boe is offline  
post #17 of 359 Old 06-05-2006, 01:28 PM
 
atdamico's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

...I'm hoping to see this market grow again like it was when Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Sony all made preamps.

Frankly, I believe that rather than the high end or even middle end pre/pro market growing it will continue to shrink. Follow the money. It's economies of scale. Other than a few niche players, this market is dying a slow death that, IMO, can not be turned.
atdamico is offline  
post #18 of 359 Old 10-09-2006, 08:13 PM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Could be true, but you never know. Let's say that 95% of the population uses receivers and 3% uses preamps. If Bill Gates were in charge of any of the major companies such as Sony or Denon, he'd certainly make a preamp or two.
boe is offline  
post #19 of 359 Old 10-09-2006, 09:03 PM
Member
 
scottcot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Sammamish, WA
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I (think) I understand what a pre-amp is doing, technically, but I can't figure out why you want one. Could someone educate me why you want a pre-amp if you have an amplifying receiver? Are you taking line-level input to the pre-amp and then pre-amp directly to a receiver? Do you bypass the second amplifier and just use the receiver as a source selector? Or when you say pre-amp do you mean a graphic equalizer, and you're manually tuning to your room accoustics?

-curious
scottcot is offline  
post #20 of 359 Old 10-09-2006, 11:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
Craigslue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I talked to Denon Jeff at a hdmi seminar about a month ago at my local dealer and he mentioned to me that there would be a prepro coming out. Don't quote me but I thought he said price would be around 4-5 grand and I think he said 1st quarter but none of this is clear in my mind except that he did bring up that they would be bringing one to market.
Craigslue is offline  
post #21 of 359 Old 10-09-2006, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Craigslue, thanks for the potential info! Jeff Talmadge? Are you sure he said $4-5K just for the preamp/processor? I'm guessing/hoping he meant to say with the amps it would go for $4-5K. I'd be surprised if Dell tried to compete with the pricey market (e.g. Krell, ML, etc.) Denon certainly has some fine equipment but they usually seem to go for the bang for the buck market - not the cheapest but usually reasonably priced. Anyone else go to the hdmi seminar?



Scottcot - the preamp/processor, is the source selector - e.g. DVD, TV etc. It adjusts the volume as well. Some can process the DTS or DD signal, some adjust individual speaker volume, some can do equilization, some give you options for playback environment - e.g. church, theatre, arena. Some also have a radio built in.

They go in between the device (DVD) and amplifier (which powers the speakers).
boe is offline  
post #22 of 359 Old 10-10-2006, 12:28 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Johnla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,499
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

I'm guessing/hoping he meant to say with the amps it would go for $4-5K.


I don't think Jeff Talmadge meant to say $4-$5k for a pre-pro and amps, I do think that the price he mentioned is for only a pre-pro, assuming they do end up deciding to actually offer one. Because they have talked about just a pre-pro alone being priced in the $4-$5 range before. And I'm guessing if they do decide to offer a pre-pro, it will be a higher end type unit. Quite possibly with features that are at least equal to their current 5805 receivers. Or maybe even better yet, equal to their new $7.5k 5805CI receiver that will be out sometime soon.
Johnla is online now  
post #23 of 359 Old 10-10-2006, 01:38 AM
Advanced Member
 
Jase H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: España
Posts: 576
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Trouble is, Denon have been talking about releasing Seperates for a couple of years now, even going so far as showing Prototypes at various Shows. Much as I'd like one I couldn't wait forever so bought their A1XV (5805) and use that as a Processor.
Jase H is offline  
post #24 of 359 Old 10-10-2006, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
I guess $4K isn't impossible by any means, I was just hoping it would be more in line with the Rotel preamps for pricing.
boe is offline  
post #25 of 359 Old 10-10-2006, 07:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsmith901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 8,966
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottcot View Post

I (think) I understand what a pre-amp is doing, technically, but I can't figure out why you want one. Could someone educate me why you want a pre-amp if you have an amplifying receiver? Are you taking line-level input to the pre-amp and then pre-amp directly to a receiver? Do you bypass the second amplifier and just use the receiver as a source selector? Or when you say pre-amp do you mean a graphic equalizer, and you're manually tuning to your room accoustics?

-curious

The word "preamp" is being a little misused here. What they are talking about is more accurately termed a "preamp/processor (pre/pro)" or "audio video processor (AVP)." Historically a preamp was just a two channel analog controller that allowed switching between analog sources (LP, tape, CD) with a volume control, with the source signal then sent via preouts to a separate power amp. A pre/pro/AVP does the same thing but includes 7 or more channels, bass management, digital inputs, performs audio processing, and usuallly handles video switching as well. A separate power amp is required. You are correct that a typical multichannel audio/video receiver will do the same thing and will not require a separate amp, plus it includes a radio tuner. But many feel separate pre/pro and power amps give better performance.

"The truth is out there!"
dsmith901 is offline  
post #26 of 359 Old 10-10-2006, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Craigslue,

By any chance did he mention HDMI 1.3, DTS HD or DD TrueHD on the new units?

I didn't realize until someone pointed out that they had $7000 receivers, I wonder if they'll offer upgrades to those units to handle the new formats- I'd hate to have purchased a $7000 receiver this year only to find out it can't handle those formats.
boe is offline  
post #27 of 359 Old 10-12-2006, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
boe
AVS Special Member
 
boe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 2,321
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Did anyone else here anything recently on this unit?
boe is offline  
post #28 of 359 Old 10-12-2006, 05:20 PM
 
J.H.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Did anyone else here anything recently on this unit?

I will a million bucks it does not happen. I emailed Yamaha about this once and they basically got snooty and said Yamaha WILL NEVER EVER DO SEPARATES! They were very clear and strong on that point. I doubt either DENON nor YAMAHA will do separates at all. J.H.
J.H. is offline  
post #29 of 359 Old 10-12-2006, 05:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Denon did do a pre/pro in the past. The 8000 or something. Only had Dolby Digital as it came out before DTS became "mandatory." Also, Yamaha has done dedicated processors before too (DPL era, and early Dolby Digital era). Yamaha still does separates amplifiers and tuners too:

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/separate.html?CTID=5002000

Just no multichannel stuff.

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #30 of 359 Old 10-12-2006, 06:30 PM
 
J.H.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

Denon did do a pre/pro in the past. The 8000 or something. Only had Dolby Digital as it came out before DTS became "mandatory." Also, Yamaha has done dedicated processors before too (DPL era, and early Dolby Digital era). Yamaha still does separates amplifiers and tuners too:

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/separate.html?CTID=5002000

Just no multichannel stuff.

Yes thats what i meant no HT separates. J.H.
J.H. is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off