My AVR-3806 Audyssey experience! (measurements inside) - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 417 Old 12-20-2006, 06:44 PM
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Just want to add that for many people (both users and professional reviewers), Audyssey performs very well. Here is a repeat of my post after I setup Audyssey on my 4306, correct distances, good xover settings, and bass equalized to 28Hz at least as good as what I was able to do with a BFD.

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I've had my 4306 for a week now, and have just compared the Audyssey EQ for the sub frequencies to the what I previously was getting with my Yam 2095 and a BFD. For my setup, there is no doubt that the 4306 w/ Audyssey is doing as good, if not better, as the Yam 2095 w/BFD. Here are the results:

4306 w/EQ on: 28Hz-140Hz, +/-4 dB
2095 w/BFD: 28Hz-140Hz, +/- 7dB

The two are actually fairly similar below 80Hz, the biggest difference between is in the region between 80Hz-140Hz, where I assume the Audyssey is doing more than just sub correction, here are the results:

4306 w/EQ on: 80Hz-140Hz, +/-3 dB
2095 w/BFD: 80Hz-140Hz, +/- 6 dB

I'm using the crossovers recommended by Audyssey, which are:
60 Hz - Mains
80 Hz - Center
100 Hz - Surrounds

I've also checked all of the levels with Avia HT Setup Disk, and all of the channel levels are spot on.

One other interesting thing the Audyssey did, when I was looking at the response curves in the Graphic EQ, they were set for the most part +/- 2 dB of flat, with the exception of the 500Hz-1kHz region, here there was a -5dB cut for both the L & R speakers. I looked up the speaker's response curve (Norh 6.9 SM), and they have a 5dB peak starting at 500Hz and extending past 1kHz. So it looks like Audyssey is doing a good job of flattening out the sound field for a uniform response.

I realize not everyone has had similar experiences with Audyssey, but for me it is working about as good as could be expected. So far I like the results of having it engaged.

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post #392 of 417 Old 12-20-2006, 07:25 PM
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The two are actually fairly similar below 80Hz, the biggest difference between is in the region between 80Hz-140Hz, where I assume the Audyssey is doing more than just sub correction, ..................

I measured decay and found that Audyssey made significant differences in that range.

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post #393 of 417 Old 12-20-2006, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruin View Post

Not saying that it is or is not working correctly, but something that few people seem to take into account is that Audyssey can not/does not take into account individual tastes, and individual differences in hearing.

If you use the flat curve, and Audyssey is tyring to achieve a flat frequency response, but you happen to like a non-flat curve, then you won't like the sound. Also, some of the "wacked out" stuff that Audyssey is doing is for room correction. If you read u p on Audyssey you will note that they even SAY that distance measurements may not reflect actual measured distances because they are artificially increasing or decreasing distances as part of the correciton for room accoustics. Throwing a tape measure down and comparing against Audyssey is a waste of time. If all Audyssey did was simulate a tape measure and an SPL meter it would not be worth it.

personally, being in the over 40 crowd, I expect that I have some personal roll off of the high end, so I don't want the Audyssey curve, nor do I care for what THX processing does to the high end, so I use the audyssey flat curve (which has audyssey fully engaged except for NOT rolling off the high end), and I don't use THX processing.

Folks that have "grown up" with the music mixes put out in the last 20 years are used to overblown. over-subed, bass. "true to life" music is going to sound strange to you.

Anyway, enough rambling. All I am trying to say is that if you don't like the results, don't use it. Also, beware of preconcieved notions of what you thing Audyssey should be doing.

Good luck, and good listening!

Ruin

Good reply/post and thanks! A little about me. I am 41 years old and work in the music industry in instrument sales. I have been a drummer all my life and have made a living as a drummer for about half of my working career. So basically I know what live music sounds like and especially drums. I have some very good acoustic well recorded CD's I use as reference. When Audessey is used the cymbals sound dull and lifeless, so does not stand up bass or the punch of the kick drum.
So what I've done is used Audessey and copied the curve and adjusted to what I believe sounds more real. Not saturated sizzling highs or over blown subs but just natural realality. Now keep in mind this is only my bedroom system.
My main room HT is all McIntosh amps and pre-pro and I have the ability to plug in some eq's to that system but have not yet. My main HT room is extremely well treated and really sound good with no eq but there are a few places I'd like to employee a few channels of parametic eq and fix some things. Studios use this tyoe of eqing with a real time analizer and so forth.
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post #394 of 417 Old 12-21-2006, 04:40 AM
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I've found that if I read the instructions carefully and set the bass on my sub crossover to 100 instead of bypass or any other setting, it sounds good.

I must have missed this. Is this true ? I just assumed you would want your sub set to bypass ( before and after eq-ing ). Can others comment on this ...If true, I wonder why this would be the case
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post #395 of 417 Old 12-21-2006, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

I must have missed this. Is this true ? I just assumed you would want your sub set to bypass ( before and after eq-ing ). Can others comment on this ...If true, I wonder why this would be the case

I do not recall anything about this but, wherever you set your crossover, if you do so before/during Audyssey measurements, the performance will be accounted for.

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post #396 of 417 Old 12-21-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I do not recall anything about this but, wherever you set your crossover, if you do so before/during Audyssey measurements, the performance will be accounted for.

It's another 'user error' thing that I've encountered. Still, for my ears, I'm not entirely fond to the Audyssey sound. The instruction is on page 10, #1, on the "Turning on the power" section.
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post #397 of 417 Old 12-21-2006, 10:57 AM
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Quote:


It's another 'user error' thing that I've encountered. Still, for my ears, I'm not entirely fond to the Audyssey sound. The instruction is on page 10, #1, on the "Turning on the power" section

Maybe this could explain why Audyssey is cutting the 125hz region fairly drastically on my speakers ...Hmm, Im gonna try it with the crossover on the sub set to 100 hz instead of bypass and see if this makes a difference on the 125 hz cuts to my main speakers.
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post #398 of 417 Old 12-21-2006, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

Maybe this could explain why Audyssey is cutting the 125hz region fairly drastically on my speakers ...Hmm, Im gonna try it with the crossover on the sub set to 100 hz instead of bypass and see if this makes a difference on the 125 hz cuts to my main speakers.

Remember to set it back to Bypass after the calibration is done.

Edit: also, you will have to adjust the sub volume level to your liking after the calibration. Mine was at -9.5db and I had to increase it to my liking.

As for the 125hz being cut-off, it does that to mine too. 250hz & 2K-8K. I'm not a 2CH person, so if I was using Dolby, I keep the Audyssey settings on all my speakers except the front, which gets boosted. When I watch movies, I use the Flat setting to avoid an unbalanced sound. That's just me.
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post #399 of 417 Old 12-21-2006, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a_ok2me View Post

I've found that if I read the instructions carefully and set the bass on my sub crossover to 100 instead of bypass or any other setting, it sounds good.

I turned my gain to 50% and maxxed my bypass to like 140 (or whatever it goes to) during setup. After, I went back to 90 hz or so on the sub and turned the gain to 60%. This really helped Audyssey and now it doesnt lose too much bass, still some is gone at the very bottom.

We need to play with the bypass and gain settings and see if we can't get Audyssey to behave better.
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post #400 of 417 Old 12-21-2006, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [SS]Shooter View Post

I turned my gain to 50% and maxxed my bypass to like 140 (or whatever it goes to) during setup. After, I went back to 90 hz or so on the sub and turned the gain to 60%. This really helped Audyssey and now it doesnt lose too much bass, still some is gone at the very bottom.

We need to play with the bypass and gain settings and see if we can't get Audyssey to behave better.

Weird,

After using Audyssey I usually need to cut my subs 3 to 5 db as they are hot. This is according to SPL readings and music.

I know Denon says the Audyssey is the same in their receivers, but the chipset is different in the 4806/5805 (8 point) and uses the Texas Instruments Aureus chipset for DSP. The units below this level are all 6 point and use the Analog Devices, HammerHead SHARC.

I've had a 3806/4806 units and the 4806/and currently the 5805MK2 in my house Pathetic I know But strongly feel that the Audyssey implementation is different for these. Even the Audyssey in the 5805 has had 3 revisions, with the current version the best sounding and most reliable, especially in the bass department.

My .02

James
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post #401 of 417 Old 01-18-2007, 09:55 AM
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I have been fighting with the Audyssey on my 2807 for a few months now and am confused and concerned by the results.
My room is about 13 x 18 (speakers on the short wall) witha L shaped sofa dominating the room. Ceilings are about 7 1/2 ft.

The Rocket 850 fronts are about 7' apart and 10' to the listening position. The left front unfortunately is directly in front of the Settee portion of the sofa about 2' away. Nothing blocking the right speaker. My sides are Rocket rss 300's and my rears are Rocket 750 sigs.

When I invoke the Audyssey setting it sounds like a blanket has been thrown over the whole system - almost no highs at all. The front setting restores the highs and the difference in sound quality is very noticeable (better). But why? If all you are doing is eq'ing the side and rears to match the fronts how could there be such a drastic change in sound quality? I would love to see what someone else's graphs look like after running Audyssey.

Any help/comments would be appreciated.
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post #402 of 417 Old 01-19-2007, 10:14 AM
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try using the flat setting. You will get the audyssey curve except that it wont roll off the high end.

Ruin
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post #403 of 417 Old 01-23-2007, 01:39 PM
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Can anyone tell me if the 3806 will do 7.1 LCPM from the PS3 for blue ray? I have heard that the 3806 can only do 5.1 LCPM.

I will be getting 2 more speakers soon and purchasing a new reciever and I am trying to decide between the 2807 and the 3806. I have heard the 3806 sounds better and has better power but want to make sure I get everything I need out of it sound wise for blu ray on a ps3.

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post #404 of 417 Old 01-23-2007, 02:13 PM
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It's a 7.1 receiver able to decode LPCM digitally, or to amplify such signals decoded by a player and sent through analog cables to the Ext. In inputs, so why wouldn't it?
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post #405 of 417 Old 01-23-2007, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

Can anyone tell me if the 3806 will do 7.1 LCPM from the PS3 for blue ray? I have heard that the 3806 can only do 5.1 LCPM.

I will be getting 2 more speakers soon and purchasing a new reciever and I am trying to decide between the 2807 and the 3806. I have heard the 3806 sounds better and has better power but want to make sure I get everything I need out of it sound wise for blu ray on a ps3.


Quote:
Originally Posted by s2silber View Post

It's a 7.1 receiver able to decode LPCM digitally, or to amplify such signals decoded by a player and sent through analog cables to the Ext. In inputs, so why wouldn't it?

There are some 3806 and 4306 with old version of firmware, which can do only 5.1 PCM over HDMI. A firmware upgrade is needed for 7.1 PCM over HDMI. Check this thread for more info:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&page=1&pp=30
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post #406 of 417 Old 01-24-2007, 04:04 AM
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After wading through this thread, I can't help but conclude that most people who posted are unhappy with Audessey. Maybe they are asking it to do too much, but most posters get poor or inconsistent results and many just abandon it. I had high hopes for this but I guess I will wait for the next iteration.
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post #407 of 417 Old 01-25-2007, 06:31 AM
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Question for you guys.

I have Klipsch RF-3 Front channels, Klipsch RC-62 center, Klipsch RS-52 surrounds, Klipsch KDS-1bookshelfs for back surrounds, and just a crappy subwoofer that I plan to replace when I buy a house soon.

I am thinking of getting either a 2807 or a 3806 but I cannot decide. The 3806 has more wattage.

What would you guys suggest? I have an upconverting sony hdmi dvd player, a ps3, a a sony xbr2 1080p TV. Go with the 2807 or the 3806 and why?

this would be replacing a sony str-de985 which has problems outputting sound from blu ray movies.

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post #408 of 417 Old 01-25-2007, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethhobrin View Post

Question for you guys.

I have Klipsch RF-3 Front channels, Klipsch RC-62 center, Klipsch RS-52 surrounds, Klipsch KDS-1bookshelfs for back surrounds, and just a crappy subwoofer that I plan to replace when I buy a house soon.

I am thinking of getting either a 2807 or a 3806 but I cannot decide. The 3806 has more wattage.

What would you guys suggest? I have an upconverting sony hdmi dvd player, a ps3, a a sony xbr2 1080p TV. Go with the 2807 or the 3806 and why?

this would be replacing a sony str-de985 which has problems outputting sound from blu ray movies.


I would only go with the 2807 if you need the Video Conversion capability of 480I to 480P. IF not, then the 3806 is the way to go.
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post #409 of 417 Old 01-25-2007, 04:20 PM
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Quote:


Question for you guys.

I have Klipsch RF-3 Front channels, Klipsch RC-62 center, Klipsch RS-52 surrounds, Klipsch KDS-1bookshelfs for back surrounds, and just a crappy subwoofer that I plan to replace when I buy a house soon.

I am thinking of getting either a 2807 or a 3806 but I cannot decide. The 3806 has more wattage.

What would you guys suggest? I have an upconverting sony hdmi dvd player, a ps3, a a sony xbr2 1080p TV. Go with the 2807 or the 3806 and why?

this would be replacing a sony str-de985 which has problems outputting sound from blu ray movies

It's 10 stinkin watts ..Man I fell like shouting this out, 10 watts aint jack, maybe you could squeeze 1 extra db of volume out . Besides you have Klipsch speakers, you could drive them properly with a clock radio and have watts left over.
Why not get the newer versioned 2807 ..Plus Id advise you as axs did to check out that thread ( we're trying to hash out some issues with the 3806 ).
The 2807 works, thats saying something now adays. Its a perfect match for the PS3. IMO anybody who heres some huge difference between these two units is kidding themselves. Also both units have good dacs so dont give me that ( dacs are like a couple of bucks now adays) . I would love to have a blind a/b test challenge between these two because I would rake in the money.
You could always add a cheap used external amp to either the 2807 or 3806 ..as neither one will be suffecient for ineffecient hard to drive speakers, but thats not the case for you with the Klipschs
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post #410 of 417 Old 01-25-2007, 04:29 PM
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The 3806 does sound slightly better than the 2807 partially due to the better DACs. I owned the 3805 and tried the 2807 and it didn't sound quite the same. It was close but not the same. The 3806 also has AL24 processing on all channels and the 2807 only has it on the Left and Right front speakers. That might also be a reason for the slightly better sound. If I had never owned the 3805 I would have been perfectly happy with the 2807. But coming from the 3805 the 2807 was a notch below in audio quality so I got a refurb 3806. If I was in the market for a receiver now, I would just wait for the new models. I did loose $250 on the 2807 when I sold it recently but I got the 3806 refurb last year with the intentions of replacing it with one of th enew denons this Summer. I figure I'll get the successor to the 3806 or 4306 depending on what features they offer and the price. But for now the 3806 does a great job creating 7.1 with DPLIIx processing of the 5.1 PCM from the PS3 and the A2.

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post #411 of 417 Old 01-25-2007, 04:37 PM
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The 3806 does sound slightly better than the 2807 due to the better DACs. I owned the 3805 and tried the 2807 and it didn't sound quite the same. It was close but not the same.

Did you have these at the same time or did you sell the 2807 prior to getting the 3806 ?

Ive had all 3 of these that you mention ( 3805, 3806 and 2807 ) ...and imo this just wasnt the case, the 2807 sounded better then the 3805 ( because of the eq ) and on the same level as the 3806. My speakers are pretty good ( Von Schweikerts ) as well so that not it ..
Also when I was at my audio dealer, myself and my dealer ( along with a fellow employee ) listened and switched back and forth ...nobody could tell any audible differences..but as I said this was in a store environment and wasnt conducted on a blind basis or anything. I was just the opposite as you, I sold the 3806 and then got the 2807 ( either one for the same price )
But hey, Im glad the 3806 works for ya..thats what really matters ( but I still would like to get you in a blind a/b test with these two )

But really we're kinda splitting hair's on these two recievers ..and the thread is about Audysses ..so, sorry for the interuption. Continue on
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post #412 of 417 Old 01-26-2007, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

The 3806 does sound slightly better than the 2807 partially due to the better DACs. I owned the 3805 and tried the 2807 and it didn't sound quite the same. It was close but not the same. The 3806 also has AL24 processing on all channels and the 2807 only has it on the Left and Right front speakers. That might also be a reason for the slightly better sound. If I had never owned the 3805 I would have been perfectly happy with the 2807. But coming from the 3805 the 2807 was a notch below in audio quality so I got a refurb 3806. If I was in the market for a receiver now, I would just wait for the new models. I did loose $250 on the 2807 when I sold it recently but I got the 3806 refurb last year with the intentions of replacing it with one of th enew denons this Summer. I figure I'll get the successor to the 3806 or 4306 depending on what features they offer and the price. But for now the 3806 does a great job creating 7.1 with DPLIIx processing of the 5.1 PCM from the PS3 and the A2.

Thank you very much for the input guys. Keep the remarks coming. I have read botht he 3806 and 2807 threads completely. Also to correct you from what I read the 3806 with the new firmware supports 7.1 PCM not just 5.1 PCM.

You guys make a good point about the wattage not really having an impact on my klipsch. My budget is 1000 bucks and the that is not negotiable and I noticed that the 3806 is cheaper than the 2807 at most locations yet seems to have the same or bettter features. Damn this is a hard decision.

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post #413 of 417 Old 01-26-2007, 06:11 AM
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Quote:


Also to correct you from what I read the 3806 with the new firmware supports 7.1 PCM not just 5.1 PCM.

No, what we're finding out on that thread curently is in flux. My observations are that finally Denon has acknowledged that there is some firmware versions..one does 7.1 LPCM and one does not. They can not however determine which s/n's etc and theres seems to be massed confusion.
Also more importantly ..it seems that so far the people who have the newer firmware version can indeed do 7.1 LPCM but CANT add PLIIx onto 5.1 LPCM ( this would be a biggie )...Now the people who apparently have the older version CANT do 7.1 LPCM but CAN add PLIIx over 5.1. Again, this is unscientific but appears to be the case..Is there anybody out there that can do both ?? ( 7.1 LPCM and 5.1 LPCM with overlayed PLIIx )
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post #414 of 417 Old 04-25-2007, 11:59 AM
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Sorry for bringing this thread back to life but I just picked up the 3806 and I must say Audyssey rocks!
Bass has never sounded this even and surrounds blend perfectly for the first time.
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post #415 of 417 Old 04-25-2007, 03:08 PM
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Glad to hear that someone other than me likes it a bit.

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post #416 of 417 Old 04-25-2007, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruin View Post

Glad to hear that someone other than me likes it a bit.

Ruin

No problem
Its always fun to grab your radio shack spl meter and AVIA but in my opinion is quite useless now. If you have any kind of a peak or dip, its just not going to calibrate it correctly the way Audyssey has.
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post #417 of 417 Old 10-19-2007, 08:54 AM
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I've followed the "instruction" that Chris shared with us through this thread and the results where excelent:

1 - No more lack of bass (I don't use LFE+Main in my 4306 also).
2 - Controled deep bass.
3 - Great midrange and highs to my ears

I've done the following procedure:

1 - Use the mic on a camera stand
2 - pointed the mic to the ceiling
3 - Used 6 different measurement positions in the following way:
a) 1st position: Main listening position with the mic on the stand on top of the sofa at ear height (not close to the back of the sofa)
b) 2nd and 3rd position: same as the first but in the other two seats of the sofa (left and right of the main position)
c) with the stand on the floor and the mic at the same height as if it was on top of couch I've simulated a second sofa 1 meter ahead of the real one.


Results: Excelent. Thanks Chris and everyone else for support.
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