The Official Yamaha RX-V1700/RX-V2700 Thread - Page 70 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2071 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Really. If I'm following you correctly, what you described would have REDUCED the LFE 10dB, thereby worsening the issue - no?

AFAIK, it doesn't. Bass is stronger with the -10dB (the menu adjustments only allow 0 to -20dB). It could be reducing the other channels by 10dB (same effect). The manual description is on page 89, but I have no idea what that means.

If you have the same movie on DVD, try the same scenes with a normal DVD player (over optical.. thus leaving the AV amp to do the decoding), then comparing it to the MPCM soundtrack on the HD DVD.

Alternatively, choose Dolby Digital soundtracks on the HD DVD and toggle between PCM and Bitstream to see if there is a difference.
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post #2072 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 03:39 AM
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It's these variations in reported LFE issues which has kept the community from knowing whether or not there's any issues.

People are not using the same players and methods. I guess people have to test for themselves.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #2073 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

It's these variations in reported LFE issues which has kept the community from knowing whether or not there's any issues.

People are not using the same players and methods. I guess people have to test for themselves.

Mike, do you think Yamaha could release Firmware to resolve these issues with LFE if there are any? Also, do you think the possible Heat issue with HDMI sync dropping could be fixed as well, or do you think this is just a defect that happens to few 2700's?

Thanks,

JP
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post #2074 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 03:59 AM
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I have not had the HDMI heat issues, so it's possible it only effects some units. It seems plausible that the LFE issue (if it exists) could be fixed with firmware.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #2075 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 04:30 AM
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It would be neat if Yamaha would make their upper line Receivers upgradeable via board replacements to newer technologies like HDMI 1.3 for a fee. This way if it was a heat issue, they could possibly fix it with an updated HDMI 1.2a board that's less succeptible to heat and also offer the upgrades. Would be worth spending a couple hundred more bucks on an upgradeable receiver. I am ready to buy a 2700 but this HDMI heat/sync issue is scaring me. I guess this is one component that I should not try to save money on by buying off the Internet, rather get it from a reputable dealer I can return it to if there is a problem.

Whatcha think?

JP
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post #2076 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireshoes View Post

I'm not using zone 2, but usually you have to use analog audio cables for it.

Thanks, but my issue is that it worked completely perfectly previously - with no cables changing. The zone 2 speakers are connected to the 2700, not other audio sources.
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post #2077 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl b View Post

not to be pushy, but i would like very much if one would respond to my post about the yammy remote.
"one problem that i encountereed with the 2700 is that it stopped respnoding to the remote. it occured after the 2700 was reset. is there a way to reset the remote so that it works?"i'm one whose 2700 did not just work out of the box. i'm thinking of sending back. however, i'm conflicted. i really, really like how good this sounds and i want to try a bit more. any takers? if the unit seems not to respond to the remote, is there anything to do to get the remote working again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl b View Post

after reading that thread i wonder if my problem is the 2700 unit or a non-working remote. i have not been able to configure my inputs for hdmi. no matter what i've tried. after a week of just doing everything and trying to remember so that i don't always repeat the same steps the remote seemed to just stop causing any action.

Quote:
Originally Posted by True Fan View Post

So, why don't you take your unit AND remote to the closest store which carries 2700, and try with THEIR remote if YOUR unit responds ? And then, with YOUR remote try to control THEIR 2700 !
I'd do it first, instead of wasting my (and other Forum users') time ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by darryl b View Post

you wasted your time with that post

TF: Well, apparently I did, you pushy, unappreciative punk !!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by subatomic View Post

I think his suggestion was not send it back, but to take it to the store to help diagnose it using one of the remotes or other units they have there. then you can see if it is your remote, or your unit...
the easy way is just take your remote to bestbuy and try it, if it works better than at home, you know your unit is bad.

TF: Hi, subatomic - thankfully there are some people on this Forum (like you) who can READ, THINK and COMPREHEND ...

Listening to sound opinions, preferring sound of music ...
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post #2078 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

AFAIK, it doesn't. Bass is stronger with the -10dB (the menu adjustments only allow 0 to -20dB). It could be reducing the other channels by 10dB (same effect). The manual description is on page 89, but I have no idea what that means.

If you have the same movie on DVD, try the same scenes with a normal DVD player (over optical.. thus leaving the AV amp to do the decoding), then comparing it to the MPCM soundtrack on the HD DVD.

Alternatively, choose Dolby Digital soundtracks on the HD DVD and toggle between PCM and Bitstream to see if there is a difference.

An detailed, step by step description of how I tested the 1700 for LFE issues is posted in the "LFE, ..." thread sticky. The method I followed was checked by several who have done similar testing with other models.

I doesn't make any sense to me that a NEGATIVE dB adjustment to a control labeled as "LFE Level" would have an affect or increasing the dB of the LFE channel. The description even says that it "adjusts the output level of the LFE channel".

At any rate within the next couple days I'll be doing some extensive testing for the LFE issue on my HTR-6090. I also have audio calibration tools I will use to see EXACTLY what the LFE bass is doing. Stay tuned...
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post #2079 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 11:34 AM
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Hi Everyone,

I have been following this thread for some time now and can't remember if this was covered or not. I have an Oppo 971 and the Yam 2700 connected by DVI - HDMI cable. When watching movies, the sound is out of sync with the picture. I stop the movie then instantly start it back up and it is in sync again. But after a few minutes, the sound starts to get out of sync again. This never happened when I had the oppo connected to my old Yam HTR5650. Has anyone else had this problem?
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post #2080 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 11:51 AM
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That can happen Marengo. There is an adjustable lip synch delay in the receiver's options, if memory serves me right. That may not help if your delay is not consistent.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #2081 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marengo123 View Post

Hi Everyone,

I have been following this thread for some time now and can't remember if this was covered or not. I have an Oppo 971 and the Yam 2700 connected by DVI - HDMI cable. When watching movies, the sound is out of sync with the picture. I stop the movie then instantly start it back up and it is in sync again. But after a few minutes, the sound starts to get out of sync again. This never happened when I had the oppo connected to my old Yam HTR5650. Has anyone else had this problem?

I have the same oppo and 2700. Now That I have blu-ray I have only watched 5-10 DVD'son the oppo, but have not had ANY issues with the sync. I am not sure about what is causing your problem, sorry
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post #2082 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPBOSS View Post

There's no reason why this wouldn't work. http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satel...VisitorWrapper

You could configure it on your pc and then take it and plug it into the 2700 via a short Cat5 cable and should run fine. Don't worry about what they say about game consoles and all. The main part is where they say that it takes a wired ethernet connective device and converts it to Wireless. You could pick one up at a local store and then return it if it doesn't work. Using another wireless router and turning it into a bridge is possible but unless you have multiple Ethernet devices around your 2700 that needs connecting, this would be overkill IMHO.

JP

By putting this on my network would I be able to access video and audio files from my network? What exactly can be done by getting the mentioned adapter and getting it to work correctly?
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post #2083 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MASrules View Post

By putting this on my network would I be able to access video and audio files from my network? What exactly can be done by getting the mentioned adapter and getting it to work correctly?

You could listen to encoded music files shared from your PC and also connect to Internet Radio stations, everything that the 2700 manual tells you that you can do and it would work just like you had the 2700 plugged into your home router via a wired ethernet connection, however instead of full 100Mbps speed of wired connection you would probably see somewhere around 40Mbps over the 802.11g wireless connection but that should be sufficient and the bottleneck would be your Internet Service connection speed-limit. Of course you have to share your MP3 music files from your PC to get it to work.

If/When I purchase the 2700 I have already got the Lantronix Serial to Ethernet adapter which will allow me to plug the 2700's Serial control connection into Ethernet and I can then run the 2700 managment software on my laptop and control it wirelessly. Pretty neat stuff.
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post #2084 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MASrules View Post

By putting this on my network would I be able to access video and audio files from my network? What exactly can be done by getting the mentioned adapter and getting it to work correctly?

In conjunction with this software you can control all the RXV2700's menu functions via the PC interface.

I just put a WAP54G next to my RXV2700. I plugged the NET232-DCE into the access point, which is already integrated with my existing wireless network router, and it works great, but it only has 1 port and I wanted at least 2. I found a WET54GS5 on Amazondotcom, it has 5 ports so I can stream internet music and/or control it via the interface without having to switch connections. Plus a open port for my Pioneer BDP-HD1, IF I ever pull the trigger. I'm hoping it will take care of my streaming video needs.
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post #2085 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 05:41 PM
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explain what you mean by managing your 2700 with the management software wirelessly.

Does the 2700 come with management software? If so how else would you manage the receiver if not wirelessly?

this is neat stuff.
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post #2086 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MASrules View Post

By putting this on my network would I be able to access video and audio files from my network? What exactly can be done by getting the mentioned adapter and getting it to work correctly?

When connected to your local area network, the 2700's USB/Network selection only allows you to:
  • Play music files that are streamed from one or more "streaming servers" on your network
  • Play Internet Radio stations that are streamed from the Internet over your network.
  • Video streaming is not supported.
Local Streaming: A "streaming server" is software running on an appliance or PC that interacts with a remote client (the 2700 in this case) to provide jukebox functionality. Moreover, the standard for PC streaming allows the remote client to see and select the server's music categorizations like genres, artists, titles, and playlists. Thus, from the 2700's on-screen menu, you can choose any music the server provides. The 2700 does NOT accept or display streaming video content.

Windows XP with Media Player 11 provides complete music streaming and thus can provide your 2700 with all of the music stored on your PC. There are other stand-alone software and hardware appliances that can also act as streaming music servers.

Serious Interface Flaw: HOWEVER, be aware that there are serious usability problems with the 2700's remote streaming interface. The menu times out VERY fast (like 7 secs) so it is difficult to choose a song from a long list before the menu disappears and you have to start all over.

Secondly, although hard to believe, there are no Page UP/DOWN keys so if you have a large collection of, say, 400 artists (I have 600), then you will have to press DOWN 200 times just to reach the middle of the list! Add those two disabilities together and you routinely have the case where you madly press DOWN 200 times, you stop to scratch your nose, and the menu disappears, forcing you to start hitting DOWN another 200 times praying you don't time out. In other words, it is not usable with anything but very small collections. If you do not mind destroying your music library's organization (I certainly do), you can break up your artists into separate folders like A-C, D-F, ... X-Z. You can also create playlists that group artists but that's a royal pain that would be maddening to maintain as you add/delete music.

Internet Radio: Assuming your home network is connected to The Internet via an always-on high-speed connection AND your 2700 has been successfully connected to the same network, there is nothing else to do to receive Internet Radio. You just select Internet Radio from the menu and you get a streaming server list but, in this case, the "servers" are music stations from around the world that you choose by genre then country.

Since the stations are grouped that way, the usability problem that prevents joyful use of local streaming is not an issue since there are only a few stations in each country/genre. The menu time out stilll is a pain, though. This feature works REALLY GREAT! With a high speed connection, I rarely get any streaming timeouts and the quality from most stations is very decent. The 2700 uses a large streaming buffer to minimize drop outs.

Connections: I highly recommend that you hard wire your connection, if at all possible. It provides simple and near flawless connectivity. In an attempt to avoid the hassle of running wires, I first tried the LinkSys WGA54G 54 mbps wireless Gaming Adapter but, after 1 week of intense hair pulling, I was not able to get it to participate in my network using simple WEP encryption (it does not support WPA). The router saw it as connected but neither the adapter nor the 2700 were accessible. Running in naked unencrypted mode, I could connect but throughput was minimal since wireless throughput rapidly falls off at even short distances. A 54 mbps wireless adapter only gives 30-40 mbps at zero distance and rapidly falls to single digits across a typical house. If your router-to-receiver distance is only 20-30 feet without any major obstructions, you may be ok - if you can get it to work. They are about $100 at BestBuy.

I then tried a pair of D-Link DHP-301 powerline 200 mbps Ethernet adapters. After 3 days of intense hair pulling and zero support from India, I managed to get them working but they gave minimal bandwidth which was enough to get good music streaming but not HD video streaming to my other (not 2700) devices like my Pioneer Elite 1140HD plasma TV. Since the adapters will not work through a UPS and are heavily impeded by surge supressors, they only perform best when plugged into naked outlets without any protection. So, I returned them and began the tedious effort of running direct wiring. If you only need music & Internet streaming (not Video), you might try the DLink DHP-301 kit. They are about $160 at BestBuy.

Before committing to stringing hard-wired cable, I bought 150' of Cat 5e cable, strung it across my 1st floor rooms, attached modular plugs at either end (very easy to attach), and tested that. Worked GREAT! I could stream music to both my 2700 and my Elite 1140HD plasma as well as stream HiDef WMV video to the 1140HD without a single hiccup. It is awe-inspring to see native HD WMV files streaming to the TV from my PC.

I am thus committed to finishing the hard wiring and be done with it. If you think about it, the cost of a wireless adapter or a pair of powerline adapters is far more than the cost of Cat 5e cable with 2 plugs and not much different then what a decent wiring guy might charge to do it for you. In my case, I have an unfinished basement so a wire tech could easily have done in 1-2 hours. It will probably take me an extra hour or three since I tend to over-think everything to ensure I end up with a mediocre job

Regardless of how you connect to the network, you set the 2700 to use a fixed IP address within your router network address space that does *not* fall within the range of your router's DHCP (automatic addressing) address assignment range. For my 192.168.0.x network, I chose 192.168.0.251 which worked well. You then set the address mask to 255.255.255.0 and the gateway and DNS addresses to that of the router which, in my case, is 192.168.0.1. Some routers such as some Linksys models have a different network address space like 192.168.1.x. Also, since hard-wiring avoids all security issues, you don't have any encryption settings to worry about.

Hope that helps.
Happy connections.
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post #2087 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilT3 View Post

explain what you mean by managing your 2700 with the management software wirelessly.

Does the 2700 come with management software? If so how else would you manage the receiver if not wirelessly?

this is neat stuff.

PhilT3, The Receiver Manager Software does not come with the 2700, I suggest you Read this post...

"Theoretically television may be feasible, but I consider it an impossibility, a development which we should waste little time dreaming about." -Lee de Forest, inventor of the cathode ray tube. -1926.
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post #2088 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 06:47 PM
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I've searched but couldn't find the answer.

I've got my iPod connected to the V-1700 through the dock and the receiver connected to my Sharp 46D62U through HDMI. Videos play fine as does music. Problem is, I never get an onscreen display (on the TV) of songs, or any other information from the receiver. Does the OSD not go through HDMI? Any way that I can view my iPod info on the TV to browse songs, etc.? It's a pain to get up to scroll through my albums. Thanks in advance...
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post #2089 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcallister View Post

I think to apply any crossover the speaker would have to be set to small. So all the speakers would be set to small but what I'm wanting to know is; can you set different crossover points for each speaker?

I know the Denon 3806 you can set different crossover points for each speaker, but it looks like the 2700 it's one for all speakers that are set to small. I'm surprised that you can't set them individually, since most people probably don't have 5 identical speakers. My fronts can go much deeper than the surrounds, but they aren't full range, so they need to be set to small. Oh well.
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post #2090 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjinglesusa View Post

I've searched but couldn't find the answer.

I Any way that I can view my iPod info on the TV to browse songs, etc.? It's a pain to get up to scroll through my albums. Thanks in advance...

Sure. AppleTV.
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post #2091 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by teague View Post

Sure. AppleTV.



I know. I'd rather not have yet another component in my set-up if what I have can do what I need it to do.
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post #2092 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

An detailed, step by step description of how I tested the 1700 for LFE issues is posted in the "LFE, ..." thread sticky. The method I followed was checked by several who have done similar testing with other models.

I doesn't make any sense to me that a NEGATIVE dB adjustment to a control labeled as "LFE Level" would have an affect or increasing the dB of the LFE channel. The description even says that it "adjusts the output level of the LFE channel".

At any rate within the next couple days I'll be doing some extensive testing for the LFE issue on my HTR-6090. I also have audio calibration tools I will use to see EXACTLY what the LFE bass is doing. Stay tuned...

Where is the "LFE,..." sticky? Is it in this AMPS, Receivers subgrouping?

Have you tried it on yr RXV1700? Does it have similar adjustments?

All I know is what I experienced on my HDDVD/Combo Disc of Superman Returns. Adjusting -10dB increases the bass output. I recall one of the possible LFE adjustments in a previous thread was applying -10dB to other channels (ie except LFE).
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post #2093 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof Woof View Post

Where is the "LFE,..." sticky? Is it in this AMPS, Receivers subgrouping?

Have you tried it on yr RXV1700? Does it have similar adjustments?

All I know is what I experienced on my HDDVD/Combo Disc of Superman Returns. Adjusting -10dB increases the bass output. I recall one of the possible LFE adjustments in a previous thread was applying -10dB to other channels (ie except LFE).

Here's a link to that thread along with my findings and approach testing the RX-V1700. I'll be doing the same for the HTR-6090 shortly, but so far from casual listening I do not believe it has the issue.

I follow what you are saying about the -10dB but it still sounds wacky if that's how Yamaha actually implemented it that way.
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post #2094 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weels View Post

In conjunction with this software you can control all the RXV2700's menu functions via the PC

I think you were being asked if it could be controlled over the network, via Ethernet - not via an RS-232 hard wired connection. I read the manual and it seems to only speak of a hardwired RS-232 Home Theatre controller connection. Thanks.
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post #2095 of 5395 Old 02-27-2007, 10:00 PM
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So just to verify what I think I understand after 70 pages!!!

If I currently have a squeezebox and what I consider a small music collection 5250+ songs and 2200+ artists, and I am looking at getting the 2700, I should plan on keeping the squeezebox?
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post #2096 of 5395 Old 02-28-2007, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Here's a link to that thread along with my findings and approach testing the RX-V1700. I'll be doing the same for the HTR-6090 shortly, but so far from casual listening I do not believe it has the issue.

I follow what you are saying about the -10dB but it still sounds wacky if that's how Yamaha actually implemented it that way.

Where is the link?
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post #2097 of 5395 Old 02-28-2007, 12:47 AM
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Here's the link (refer to post no.194) :

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=748147&page=4

Enjoying High Definition Movies in Lossless Audio! Awesome Xperience!
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post #2098 of 5395 Old 02-28-2007, 05:40 AM
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** double posting this here and in the LFE,... thread **

I couldn't get the XA2 to output in Bitstream mode over HDMI.

Only available options for HDMI output were Auto, PCM or Downmixed (stereo) PCM.

So I switched to my PS3 also hooked up with HDMI.

As usual, I used Superman Returns since that was the one I was most familiar with.

My Setup is as follows:
XA2 -> HDMI DVD input of RXV2700
PS3 -> HDMI DTV input of RXV2700

RXV2700 HDMI output to Mitsubishi HC5000

Front and Rear Satelites - B&W 601S2s
Center Speaker - B&W CDM CSE
Side Speakers - Atlantic Technology dipoles (forgot the model no)
Subwoofer - PB12ISD/V

Calibrated with YPAO earlier.

In the PS3 Dashboard, Settings, BR/DVD Settings/Audio HDMI was set to
a. Bitstream, and then
b. PCM

There is no need to change the Audio Track since there is only Dolby Digital 5.1

With a, I see from the Yamaha 2700 display that it was receiving a Dolby Digital Display (Sur Decode and Ext Surround: Dolby ProLogic IIx: Movie applied)

Selected Chapter 11 of the movie

Soundtrack/score is playing as Superman leaves the sports bar and runs to change.

Scene switches to the plane that Lois is in... as the plane/shuttle picks up speed, and the sonic boom occurs, the loud pop is very obvious

Later, when the ignition boosters are ignited, the bass is also very strong.



With b, Yamaha 2700 displays MPCM (Sur Decode and Ext Surround: Dolby ProLogic IIx: Movie applied like before)

Chapeter 11 again

When sonic boom occurs, the pop isn't as obvious.

And ignition boosters lacked the punch.

I am not saying I can't hear the subwoofer. It is still in action, and I can feel the drivers kicking in. But it does seem more muted than before. Sounds like the 10dB LFE problem to me.

I don't think lovingdvd and I are the ONLY two guys with RXV2700s and HDMI based players to test this out.. come on, guys. Let's have some other opinions here.
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post #2099 of 5395 Old 02-28-2007, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjinglesusa View Post

I've searched but couldn't find the answer.

I've got my iPod connected to the V-1700 through the dock and the receiver connected to my Sharp 46D62U through HDMI. Videos play fine as does music. Problem is, I never get an onscreen display (on the TV) of songs, or any other information from the receiver. Does the OSD not go through HDMI? Any way that I can view my iPod info on the TV to browse songs, etc.? It's a pain to get up to scroll through my albums. Thanks in advance...

As the manual says, the OSD does not work with HDMI. I suggest you take a composite feed from the monitor out on the 1700 and plug that into your TV. You should be able to view and use the iPod menu by switching to the composite input on your TV and switching the 1700 from amp to source then hitting the lower "display" botton on the 1700 remote. This latter part assumes the 1700 uses the same commands as my 2700. Works great on my setup.
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post #2100 of 5395 Old 02-28-2007, 08:18 AM
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OSD does work with HDMI. It just doesn't work when a source is playing.

An important distinction, because, for example, the GUI works just fine over HDMI.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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