denon vs pioneer - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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i need to get a new receiver. it has to have HDMI switching. i get discounts on onkyo, denon and pioneer. right now im tossed between the pioneer vsx1016txvk and the denon avs887 (comes out in sept.)
so what one would you pick and why?
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post #2 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 10:16 AM
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either is fine. Personally I'd get the Pioneer 1016 over the Denon AVR-887, but take the Denon 1907 over the Pioneer 1016.
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post #3 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 10:24 AM
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Depending on your speakers, I'd take the digital switching Panasonic sa-xr57 over both of those receivers---should cost the same or less even without your employee discount.
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post #4 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 10:34 AM
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>Personally I'd get the Pioneer 1016 over the Denon AVR-887, but take the Denon 1907 over the Pioneer 1016. <

This confuses me- isn't '887' just code for a Denon model that is HIGHER than the 1907? (it's that whole "Denon has two model numbers" situation) Like 887=2807 or something? Why take the lower one over the higher one?
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post #5 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cneely8
>Personally I'd get the Pioneer 1016 over the Denon AVR-887, but take the Denon 1907 over the Pioneer 1016. <

This confuses me- isn't '887' just code for a Denon model that is HIGHER than the 1907? (it's that whole "Denon has two model numbers" situation) Like 887=2807 or something? Why take the lower one over the higher one?
I actually just assumed the Denon 887 was a lower model. I am unfamiliar with the "alternative" 3-digit Denon numbering system as I have only dealt with the 4-digit models before. If it is indeed a higher model then I mgiht prefer it, although I am firmly of the opinion that there is only "so much" receiver the average person needs for given speakers.

For any speaker package under $4000 (5.1) I think any receiver costing <$500 will work fine and the decision should be made on features.
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post #6 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 06:42 PM
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FWIW, my Denon 1905 crapped out after 14 months. Probably an isolated case, because I've always heard Denon's are very reliable, but the whole experience has soured me on Denon.

I've been looking at other receivers to replace it with, and will probably go with a Yamaha or maybe a low end Marantz (except - aren't they part of Denon?). One nice thing about Denon is that even the 190x models have preamp outputs (an absolute requirement for me), which you don't find on most of the other brands until you step up a couple of models.
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post #7 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 07:32 PM
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There's another company that owns a good ammount of shares from both Denon and Marantz. It's called D&M holdings http://www.dm-holdings.com/eng/index.html
Ammong other companies they have is marantz, denon, boston acoustics, McInTosH.
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post #8 of 22 Old 09-08-2006, 07:59 PM
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Both receivers have low total harmonic distortion and generally adhere to the advertised power ratings with all channels driven. With that in mind, there should be no sound quality differences; just a difference in features and power output. You should try to find a review of each though, because advertised numbers aren't always the same as actual performance numbers.

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post #9 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 01:37 AM
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I prefer Denon over Pioneer. imo, Denon is a higher quality brand.


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post #10 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 07:43 AM
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"FWIW, my Denon 1905 crapped out after 14 months. Probably an isolated case, because I've always heard Denon's are very reliable, but the whole experience has soured me on Denon."

I had a Denon AVR3300 that had a cold solder joint fail 3 months out of warranty. A cold solder joint failure is a manufacturing defect. My first letter to Denon asking them to consider a repair was ignored -- no reply. My second letter, in which I provided a copy of the first letter, got a cursory "nothing we can do" response. From their view, perhaps it was simply sticking to the terms of the warranty and avoidance of costs if the problem turned out to be wide spread. From my view, it was a poor customer experience. When I replaced the unit with a high-end product, I went with another vendor.

Based solely on my experience, I have little faith in Denon product reliability, and how they handled my correspondence clearly lays out what to expect as soon as the warranty period is over. It was a good sounding product when it worked. But given my experience and the added repair expense for something that IMO shouldn't have failed, I have no plans to ever buy another Denon product.

Caveat Emptor!
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post #11 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 12:02 PM
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I'm sort of starting to wonder this myself. I'm looking to upgrade to an *upconverting* HDMI receiver, and my choices that I'm scoping out are a Denon AVR-4806CI and a Pioneer VSX-84TXSi.

I'm sort of leaning at the Denon - which hurts my wallet - because I just ordered an Epic 80 system from Axiom Audio, and have noticed that those are 4-ohm speakers. Pioneer's Web site says that the 84 can overload driving 4-ohm speakers (it apparently gets pissy at anything below 8 ohms), and I'm not really in the mood to buy a 1500-dollar receiver and then several separate 4-ohm amps to drive my shiny speakers. They both upconvert, and I'm hopefully going to go demo that feature on the 4806CI later today.

The Pioneer has the edge in terms of price (by...a lot), and from what I've heard it's fairly faithful to the 140 watt per channel rating. I have an Elite 74TXVi, which I absolutely love to death - the iPod connectivity is awesome, and it drives my current speakers (a nice, but inexpensive Onkyo 7.2) really well. I also really like MCACC as far as audio setup - the only thing it did weird was crank my subwoofer way way way down, but everything else was spot-on. I've heard some good and bad things about Audyssey, though. I also realy like the Pio remote, but I've never seen the Denon one.

So. Um. Owners of Pioneers and Denons, speak out! :)
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post #12 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 12:14 PM
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with Axiom I think you'll appreciate the superior warmth of the PE rather than the dry, rather sterile sound of the Denon (YMMV: opinion based on comparative listening at Tweeter).

Another AVR with a nice warm sound that will match well with those speakers would be the Marantz 8500 which has a torroidal transformer and should be able to handle 4 ohm speakers---might want to confirm that with Marantz. I'd also consider the Harman Kardon 7300 which is going for around $1K now, MSRP was around $2500 I think---also a torroidal-based AVR.
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post #13 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 12:16 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions! But do either of those do component -> HDMI trascoding/upconverting? That was the biggest requirement I had. :) I should go look them up but I'm running out the door....
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post #14 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edster922
with Axiom I think you'll appreciate the superior warmth of the PE rather than the dry, rather sterile sound of the Denon (YMMV: opinion based on comparative listening at Tweeter).

Another AVR with a nice warm sound that will match well with those speakers would be the Marantz 8500 which has a torroidal transformer and should be able to handle 4 ohm speakers---might want to confirm that with Marantz. I'd also consider the Harman Kardon 7300 which is going for around $1K now, MSRP was around $2500 I think---also a torroidal-based AVR.
I highly doubt you could tell the difference in a double blind test.
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post #15 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 01:51 PM
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If you want HDMI Upconversion...go with a Yamaha RX-V2600


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post #16 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJRothman
I highly doubt you could tell the difference in a double blind test.
Maybe, but I'd say it probably depends on the speakers used. With a more forward speaker like the Focal 908, the PE definitely sounded very different. Less so with the Polk LSi7 and 9.
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post #17 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EJRothman
either is fine. Personally I'd get the Pioneer 1016 over the Denon AVR-887, but take the Denon 1907 over the Pioneer 1016.
The 1907 carries a list of 699, while the 1907 is 549. If you look at the specs for each, you will bind out that the 887 is equivalent to the 21xx series, which is higher up in the line than the 1907. Therefore, it you are recommending the 1907 over the Pioneer 1016, then the 887 should be a double recommend. Personally, I would listen to the Pioneer against the 1907, and see which one I liked better, assuming that that is the correct price range for the recommendee.

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post #18 of 22 Old 09-09-2006, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSaull
The 1907 carries a list of 699, while the 1907 is 549. If you look at the specs for each, you will bind out that the 887 is equivalent to the 21xx series, which is higher up in the line than the 1907. Therefore, it you are recommending the 1907 over the Pioneer 1016, then the 887 should be a double recommend. Personally, I would listen to the Pioneer against the 1907, and see which one I liked better, assuming that that is the correct price range for the recommendee.
Already addressed - see post #5 in this thread.
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post #19 of 22 Old 09-11-2006, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-99
"FWIW, my Denon 1905 crapped out after 14 months. Probably an isolated case, because I've always heard Denon's are very reliable, but the whole experience has soured me on Denon."

I had a Denon AVR3300 that had a cold solder joint fail 3 months out of warranty. A cold solder joint failure is a manufacturing defect. My first letter to Denon asking them to consider a repair was ignored -- no reply. My second letter, in which I provided a copy of the first letter, got a cursory "nothing we can do" response. From their view, perhaps it was simply sticking to the terms of the warranty and avoidance of costs if the problem turned out to be wide spread. From my view, it was a poor customer experience. When I replaced the unit with a high-end product, I went with another vendor.
Caveat Emptor!
Funny you mention that.. I also have an AVR-3300 that crapped out after about 2 years. The right front pre-out channel went dead and would sometimes come back if I slapped the unit round a little. I currently looking for a replacement and am considering the Pioneer VSX-1016. Does anybody know if this unit has and adjustable audio delay...
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post #20 of 22 Old 09-11-2006, 06:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edster922
with Axiom I think you'll appreciate the superior warmth of the PE rather than the dry, rather sterile sound of the Denon (YMMV: opinion based on comparative listening at Tweeter).

Another AVR with a nice warm sound that will match well with those speakers would be the Marantz 8500 which has a torroidal transformer and should be able to handle 4 ohm speakers---might want to confirm that with Marantz. I'd also consider the Harman Kardon 7300 which is going for around $1K now, MSRP was around $2500 I think---also a torroidal-based AVR.
I have had Denons in my system and have heard many in store demos with Denon vs other brands. Same speakers and level matched.

Denon always sounded as you described and inferior to the other brands. Otherwise, there was no difference in sound quality. Perhaps I should have worn a blind fold rather than have the equipment behind me.
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post #21 of 22 Old 10-22-2006, 03:49 PM
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I also have a Denon AVR3300 and after about two years, I started noticing a high pitched squeal after running it for the length of an average movie (about two hours). Really annoying, and like another poster mentioned earlier, a letter to Denon went unanswered. I would have appreciated some kind of response, even a simple form letter telling me to pound sand, but I got nothing at all. And also like the other poster, this is my last Denon product. There is no excuse for poor customer service. I'm looking to go the separates route, and have been scoping out the Anthem line of pre-pros. Trouble is, I would like to know if the squeal from the Denon is originating from the preamp side or the power amps. This would make it easier to decide which separate component to buy first: preamp or power amp. Anyone have any idea?

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post #22 of 22 Old 10-22-2006, 05:38 PM
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You might be able to borrow an amp from a local AV dealer and then connect it to the AVR3300 using it's preamp section only. After a few hours, it seems like you might have the answer to your question.
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