The "Official" Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX Owner's Thread - Page 4 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Lindahl's Avatar Lindahl 10:37 AM 10-24-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Htdude14 View Post

The second issue is lack of .lfe from HD-DVD's through the Toshiba HD-A1.

This is a problem with configuration. The punch lost from HDMI PCM is due to the -10 db LFE drop called out in Dolby and DTS(?) specs, which the Toshiba HD-A1 (and possibly other HD players) fails to compensate for.

See my post, here. I'm a little blurry on the details (as is everyone), but it's easy to find out if this is the source of the problem and correct it - raise the LFE by 10 db on the Toshiba.

JayMan007's Avatar JayMan007 04:33 PM 10-24-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

This is a problem with configuration. The punch lost from HDMI PCM is due to the -10 db LFE drop called out in Dolby and DTS(?) specs, which the Toshiba HD-A1 (and possibly other HD players) fails to compensate for.

See my post, here. I'm a little blurry on the details (as is everyone), but it's easy to find out if this is the source of the problem and correct it - raise the LFE by 10 db on the Toshiba.


I've also heard that some receivers have a sub "boost" of 10db to compensate for this... Does anyone know if the Pioneer Elites (81, 82, etc) have this capability?
cdistasi's Avatar cdistasi 06:23 PM 10-24-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyVice View Post

I have a Pioneer Eilte 82, Oppo DVD, JVC HDFN97 TV, and a 5.1 speaker system (SVS sub and Rocket speakers). I have HDMI running from DVD to receiver, and optical out from TV to receiver. I set up the receiver using MCACC, and I get audio tones out of side surrounds. The oppo set up is down->5.1, and HDMI->raw (which is what Oppo instructions receommends when using HDMI and a 5.1 system). Speakers are wired correctly, or MCACC tones wouldnt be so clearly heard, right?

My question is, when i watch movies OR HDTV, I get minimal if any sound out of sides when in standard surround. I tried changing the speaker level controls via MCACC, with little improvement. Last night, I switch to advanced surround-->7-channel and finally have good sound out of surrounds without changing MCACC settings.

So..I am doing something wrong? Why doesn't standard surorund give me much sound out of side speakers during movies or TV? I am confused, but happy that I seem to be getting some sound out of these speakers. i was beginning to feel like i spent alot of $$ for a pretty box to hang on the wall!

Hi MyVice, I've notice the exact same thing. That being said, some HD broadcasts have much 'more' (for lack of a better word) surround to their sound. I *think* (someone pls correct me if I'm wrong), that 7CH just pumps sound through all 5.1 speakers. with auto surround, you get the effect of surround - dialogue from center channel, etc...experiment with the settings and on different sources and you may see some differences...

at any rate, for most viewing at this point, im using 7ch, as well. ill be interested to find what you learn...
pbmpharmacist's Avatar pbmpharmacist 07:17 PM 10-24-2006
I picked up this receiver today. Very pleased thus far and no technical issues.
goldielox's Avatar goldielox 07:49 PM 10-24-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan007 View Post

I've also heard that some receivers have a sub "boost" of 10db to compensate for this... Does anyone know if the Pioneer Elites (81, 82, etc) have this capability?

Yes.
datou's Avatar datou 10:02 AM 10-25-2006
Hello all:

I am a long time lurker, and you all on avs forum have helped me a great deal in picking out my system. I have recently purchased all components for my media room based on information gathered from these forums. However, I cannot get SACD to play over HDMI in surround format. I have an OPPO 970 and a Pioneer Elite 82. I think I have properly set up the Oppo to output the SACD in multi-speaker format. I can hear nothing. Could someone please tell me how to get the receiver to play SACD in surround. Thank you all for all the info you have given me thusfar. Thanks in advance for your help here.
Htdude14's Avatar Htdude14 01:44 PM 10-25-2006
MAGIC! AS someone here posted the help, thanks. The problem was little or no bass from HD-A1 with the 82. Solution was in the HD-A1's speaker settings, set all to large and -7db while leaving the sub set at 0db. Bingo, the impact is there with a vengence now .
This is a most helpful thread, let's keep it going owners(and all others with insight )
JayMan007's Avatar JayMan007 01:56 PM 10-25-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldielox View Post

I've also heard that some receivers have a sub "boost" of 10db to compensate for this... Does anyone know if the Pioneer Elites (81, 82, etc) have this capability?

Yes.

Thanks, I've looked through the manual, but didn't see it. Do you know what page or what Pioneer calls this feature?
Gabuk's Avatar Gabuk 04:07 PM 10-25-2006
Hi all,

I was reading all the posts on this thread and had a few questions for clarifications.

I am about to pull the trigger on this receiver and a new JVC FN97 HDTV.

I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD and want to take advantage of the VSX82's superior scaler.

Is this the proper setup?

1) Component out from SA8300HD to VSX82.
2) Setup up VSX82 to scale/output 1080i.
3) Setup SA8300HD for passthrough in its menu settings.
4) By enabling passthrough on the SA8300HD, all native 1080i will passthrough the VSX82 to the TV, correct? Likewise, all 480i, 480p and 720p will be scaled to 1080i via the VSX82 then sent to the TV, correct?

Thanks for the help.
5) Lastly, do I use the HDMI output to the HDMI input on the TV or do I stick with component all the way thru?
pbmpharmacist's Avatar pbmpharmacist 04:24 PM 10-25-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabuk View Post

Hi all,

I was reading all the posts on this thread and had a few questions for clarifications.

I am about to pull the trigger on this receiver and a new JVC FN97 HDTV.

I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD and want to take advantage of the VSX82's superior scaler.

Is this the proper setup?

1) Component out from SA8300HD to VSX82.
2) Setup up VSX82 to scale/output 1080i.
3) Setup SA8300HD for passthrough in its menu settings.
4) By enabling passthrough on the SA8300HD, all native 1080i will passthrough the VSX82 to the TV, correct? Likewise, all 480i, 480p and 720p will be scaled to 1080i via the VSX82 then sent to the TV, correct?

Thanks for the help.
5) Lastly, do I use the HDMI output to the HDMI input on the TV or do I stick with component all the way thru?

Personally I'd go HDMI out from the cable box to the TV and use the other HDMI spot on your TV for the receiver, that's what I'm doing since I want every last drop of resolution from the cable box and using component seems to decrease picture quality from what I have seen in my house.
dponeill's Avatar dponeill 09:12 AM 10-26-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabuk View Post

Hi all,

Is this the proper setup?

1) Component out from SA8300HD to VSX82.
2) Setup up VSX82 to scale/output 1080i.
3) Setup SA8300HD for passthrough in its menu settings.
4) By enabling passthrough on the SA8300HD, all native 1080i will passthrough the VSX82 to the TV, correct? Likewise, all 480i, 480p and 720p will be scaled to 1080i via the VSX82 then sent to the TV, correct?

Thanks for the help.
5) Lastly, do I use the HDMI output to the HDMI input on the TV or do I stick with component all the way thru?

That is the way I have mine set up. I would have prefered to use the HDMI output on the 8300 but it has the older firmware that will not work with repeaters. I also found that the Pioneer when converting component to HDMI does not pass blacker than black and also causes the picture to look overly dark.
Vengure's Avatar Vengure 07:59 PM 10-29-2006
Heard somthing about this model being discontinued wondered if this rumor was true.
pbmpharmacist's Avatar pbmpharmacist 07:34 AM 10-30-2006
The model isn't being discontinued, Magnolia is going to quit carrying the Pioneer 82 and 84
Vengure's Avatar Vengure 07:57 AM 10-30-2006
Ahh ok I was curious for a bit. I knew that those models have just recently came out I was thinking how could they be discontinued so fast. My last reservation is weather or not to get a 84 or 82 the 84 seems like it would be easier to flash the firmware on yourself instead of sending it into a Repair center And a few slight other features but im trying to think if the extra 200$ is worth it for my fairly basic needs.
dponeill's Avatar dponeill 08:08 AM 10-30-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan007 View Post

Thanks, I've looked through the manual, but didn't see it. Do you know what page or what Pioneer calls this feature?

I was thinking I had seen it in the manual, but it was only for the 5.1 analog inputs.
Staszek's Avatar Staszek 03:53 PM 10-31-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmpharmacist View Post

The model isn't being discontinued, Magnolia is going to quit carrying the Pioneer 82 and 84


Why are they not carrying them anymore I was planning on going there to look at them this week, deciding whether to buy from them or Howard Pierce's.
StarrsMill Tiger's Avatar StarrsMill Tiger 07:39 PM 10-31-2006
Tweeter and Hi Fi Buys have them in stock if you have those stores near you.

I just bought the LAST 84 from the Magnolia in my local store in Atlanta today (floor model - got a good deal)!
Staszek's Avatar Staszek 04:38 AM 11-01-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarrsMill Tiger View Post

Tweeter and Hi Fi Buys have them in stock if you have those stores near you.

I just bought the LAST 84 from the Magnolia in my local store in Atlanta today (floor model - got a good deal)!

Hmm I am going to go today then maybe I can get a good deal. I bought my Onkyo TV-909pro 11 years ago as a floor model and it was one of my best purchases ever (saved a ton too!)
Peter740's Avatar Peter740 06:19 AM 11-01-2006
They have 2 more pioneers on clearnce in my store in NJ if you are interested. But both are open box. Warranty is the same as a brand new one.
Staszek's Avatar Staszek 09:25 AM 11-01-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter740 View Post

They have 2 more pioneers on clearnce in my store in NJ if you are interested. But both are open box. Warranty is the same as a brand new one.


Sent you a PM
gtgray's Avatar gtgray 10:30 AM 11-01-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Htdude14 View Post

I have had this rec. just over a week now. Audio wise it is awesome, loads of clean detailed power and a nice upgrade from my old Denon 3802.
But, I do have a few issues, the scaler is one and is a work in progress(sd content without the scaler is unwatchable, but set correctly works fine). Watching an SD DVD, Denon 2900 with component connection to Elite 82, there was a fine line of distortion running through the screen, bottom to top. I also see this from SA8300HD but this goes away with a res. change. Both are connected through component and all is routed through the 82 and HDMI out to tv.

The second issue is lack of .lfe from HD-DVD's through the Toshiba HD-A1. I have changed the players settings to large speakers and no sub and this helps but the impact is just not there. This could be the HD-DVD player, or the HDMI input in the 82, only a return will tell for sure. The sounds and impact, punch, details and Woooooooohaaaaaaaaaaaa sound is there in spades from the 2900. This is connected through digital coax for sound. So I know the rec. is fine, well except the HDMI in as I have tried all 3 inputs same results. I am returning the HD player soon and getting a GEn2 player. I will report back, if it's the player I don't want to bad mouth the 82 here.

I get a faint blue horizontal band when I connect the A1 to component. I have virtually given up on the scaler, actually video conversion in general on the 82. The scaler just kills the grey scale.. Sure it sharpens things and handles the diaganol lines smoothly but with 4 different player it crunches the blacks an unacceptable amount. It won't play my DVD NC85h through HDMI, so I am using it through component and it does much better when not converted by the elite to HDMI. I have an Oppo 970 on order and hopefully it will play through HDMI on the Elite and not crush the blacks..... I think the only combination I haven't tried is my Samsung HD850 through HDMI.. The A1 has crushed blacks direct to the TV so I can't blame that on the Elite but I get the impression that if Video Conversion is on the blacks crush more even on HDMI with no scaling. This effect is not too major but if the scaler is on it just hammers them. I keep trying to make the 82 elite work for me. I have finally figured out most of the quirky controls and limitations but gee whiz. You would think Pioneer would have done a much better job of the video on piece this expensive. I wonder how their Blu-Ray player does through this thing.
Mach1Man's Avatar Mach1Man 01:20 PM 11-01-2006
I only want to upscale D* SD (H10 box) by the 82 to 720P as I plan to have my sony 3100ES dvd player do the upscaling to 720P and simply pass the signal thru the 82 to my native 720P sony display. I plan to run HDMI from the dvd player to the 82. I realize I will have to switch scaler "on" or "off" depending upon source selected but that's no biggie.

Have these two questions though...............

1. Should I run component or HDMI from the H10 to the 82?? I think if I read previous posts correctly component will yield better results.

2. HDMI out of the 82 to the display should be OK for both DVD and D* correct??

Thank you for some help.
gtgray's Avatar gtgray 04:01 PM 11-01-2006
I had a tech support call today with Pioneer about the excessive contrast and dark picture with video conversion and the scaler. They said they knew about the issue and would likely address it in a firmware upgrade at some point. From my perspective it just about makes the scaler useless. Maybe just with my TV and my source devices net, net though I can't find any reasonable combination of settings on any of my dvd players I have that are not crunched by the Scaler in the Elite. I take that back my Pioneer LD over composite stays nice and bright with good blacks with lots of shadow detail.

My cheap Pioneer DVD player also seems to do better than my other players through the 82, my NC85h, Samsung 850 or Tosh A1.

I figured based on the Pioneer pieces playing better with the 82 maybe I needed a decent late Pioneer DVD player to match with the Elite. Unfortunately the only one I can really afford is the new Elite 46AV but the ones they shipped have noisy HDMI interfaces.. that is not speculation either. My tech support person confirmed for me that just about any in the field so far have this problem. I have an OPPO 970 coming hopefully it has enough adjustment to leverage the scaler in the Elite.

What's up with Pioneer anyway?
dominus_l's Avatar dominus_l 08:06 AM 11-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtgray View Post

I had a tech support call today with Pioneer about the excessive contrast and dark picture with video conversion and the scaler. They said they knew about the issue and would likely address it in a firmware upgrade at some point. From my perspective it just about makes the scaler useless. Maybe just with my TV and my source devices net, net though I can't find any reasonable combination of settings on any of my dvd players I have that are not crunched by the Scaler in the Elite. I take that back my Pioneer LD over composite stays nice and bright with good blacks with lots of shadow detail.

My cheap Pioneer DVD player also seems to do better than my other players through the 82, my NC85h, Samsung 850 or Tosh A1.

I figured based on the Pioneer pieces playing better with the 82 maybe I needed a decent late Pioneer DVD player to match with the Elite. Unfortunately the only one I can really afford is the new Elite 46AV but the ones they shipped have noisy HDMI interfaces.. that is not speculation either. My tech support person confirmed for me that just about any in the field so far have this problem. I have an OPPO 970 coming hopefully it has enough adjustment to leverage the scaler in the Elite.

What's up with Pioneer anyway?

I've had this receiver for couple of months, and didn't realize the video problem until I got the Oppo DVD player. I can definitely tell the excessive contrast and darkness after video conversion. But then Oppo's default setting looks way too bright on my TV. I just adjusted it there. I hope Pioneer addresses this problem with a simple firmware upgrade but I don't know if they even distribute firmware files publically. But the conversion is really for the legacy devices.. not for the future.. there will be less and less of them in the future. Some upconverting and scaling are better than none. I don't hold too much grudge against pioneer

I also found that digital audio inputs on this receiver actually takes 192 kHz PCM streams! Though I'm not sure if the source is 16 bit or 24 bit though since the Oppo dvd player didn't say. I did have to disable HDMI on the oppo to get the optical output to put out 192 kHz streams though.. So much hype for iLink ... I'm sure it's better but all I want is clean and precise stereo sound for my CDs.

What I hate about the receiver... remote.. What's up with shift key and other key combos? What's next? Control Alt Delete to reboot?
dominus_l's Avatar dominus_l 08:14 AM 11-02-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by wlkingdude View Post

Tell me about it. I did the same thing you did but I did it all in one shot. The wife is scared to ask how much I spent and I'm scared to tell her. The Harmony was a life saver. It made it very easy for my wife and kids to use. I setup activities to watch tv only, watch DVD, Watch TV with stereo , Listen to iPod etc. If you are computer literate the web interface isnt' to hard to use. I'm told the Pronto remotes are even better than the Harmony but they are also more $$$.

The IR issues seems to be with my VIP622 DVR from Dish Network. I had originally purchased the Onkyo TX674 but it had compatability problems with the DVR using both HDMI and Component connectors. I took it back and spent $250.00 more and purchased the 82 which I like a lot better and it doesn't have the compatability issues with the component. I still have IR issues but it doesn't matter if I connect through the 82 or the directly to the T.V. I still have a lot to learn about the 82 and configuring it.

Yes.. pronto is a lot more flexible for geeks and it does recover more gracefully if stuff doesn't work. Try that on a harmony and it'll be confused what state it's in. Then it'll be a pain in the ass to set it to the state it's supposed to be in. I have a harmony right now but it misses the flexibility I had with my old pronto. But harmony does make it easier for the rest of family and friends to enjoy your system. Sharing is always fun.
dponeill's Avatar dponeill 08:36 AM 11-02-2006
My experience has been that the upscaling works fine, it's the conversion that introduces all of the problems.
Mach1Man's Avatar Mach1Man 11:36 AM 11-02-2006
OK how do I solve this one.

My wife likes to watch TV using only the TV speakers. Can't figure out how I can get there as I plan to.........

1. Run component out of H10 into the 82 then component to TV. Going to have the 82 upscale SD to 720P.

2. Run HDMI out of my DVD into the 82 then HDMI to TV. Going to have the DVD do the upscaleing to 720P.

My TV only has one HDMI input so I can't go HDMI out of the H10 for her TV only mode. The H10 only has one component out so that is out also. If I use S-video out of the H10 for her she won't get the HD channels.

Any suggestions????
dominus_l's Avatar dominus_l 05:14 AM 11-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach1Man View Post

OK how do I solve this one.

My wife likes to watch TV using only the TV speakers. Can't figure out how I can get there as I plan to.........

1. Run component out of H10 into the 82 then component to TV. Going to have the 82 upscale SD to 720P.

2. Run HDMI out of my DVD into the 82 then HDMI to TV. Going to have the DVD do the upscaleing to 720P.

My TV only has one HDMI input so I can't go HDMI out of the H10 for her TV only mode. The H10 only has one component out so that is out also. If I use S-video out of the H10 for her she won't get the HD channels.

Any suggestions????

well you really don't have a choice without adding a component splitter or something to H10. Then connect your TV and 82 to the output of the splitter. It's an inexpensive solution but you'll get a drop in signal level of course. HDMI seems to have all sorts of weird and inconsistent problems when you use different switches, repeaters, etc. You can think of variations from this approach. Make your wife happy.. Good luck!
pier0188's Avatar pier0188 06:55 AM 11-03-2006
I checked out BBY last night, the only openbox/clearance stuff they have is a 71 series, which lacks many of the things I am looking for. They said that the 82 and 84 were new and not clearance/discontinued like other have said.

How do you bargain down an 82 series? I have a 12% off coupon, but he was pretty adamant that he wouldn't just come down in price, I even mentioned that I bought my 52" Toshiba dlp there and he didn't budge.

Also, one thing that sucks was that BBY apparently has changed it's open box policy, they are now giving out gift certs with OB purchases. This is pretty disappointing, considering the 71 series was missing the mic, remote, manual, and ipod connector. I am missing all of that and the best you can do is a $120 gift card? No thanks.

Anyway, I need some advice on how to get this thing below 1200, my wife's cut-off is 1000.
Staszek's Avatar Staszek 10:12 AM 11-03-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by pier0188 View Post

I checked out BBY last night, the only openbox/clearance stuff they have is a 71 series, which lacks many of the things I am looking for. They said that the 82 and 84 were new and not clearance/discontinued like other have said.

How do you bargain down an 82 series? I have a 12% off coupon, but he was pretty adamant that he wouldn't just come down in price, I even mentioned that I bought my 52" Toshiba dlp there and he didn't budge.

Also, one thing that sucks was that BBY apparently has changed it's open box policy, they are now giving out gift certs with OB purchases. This is pretty disappointing, considering the 71 series was missing the mic, remote, manual, and ipod connector. I am missing all of that and the best you can do is a $120 gift card? No thanks.

Anyway, I need some advice on how to get this thing below 1200, my wife's cut-off is 1000.

Try another BB. Thats the only advice I can give you because I went to my Magnolia by my house and they wouldnt budge at all at first even when I showed them internet prices (not that I expected them to get there but I figured it would help a bit. NOPE. The most they gave me was 12% which put it right around $1000. So I told them I would think about it. One of the other members suggested trying another store saying they had 2 open boxes left. I went there yesterday they guy said let me check. Went in the back and brought out a brand new one. He said the open boxes were gone but he had one new one left and he was like since its the last one I will give you an open box price (I almost fell on the floor). I basically got it for well under what your limit was in your post. Actually just barely above the internet prices (pre shipping so probably a better deal) and my full Elite warranty.

Good luck its different from store to store.

On a side note I havent had time to play with it yet I opened it up started reading through stuff but since I am going to do some rewiring I wasnt in a hurry to pull the old AVR out yet.
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