The "Official" Pioneer Elite VSX-82TSX Owner's Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Just a follow up:

I was told on the phone Friday the receiver would ship Monday and it did. I received a tracking number Monday evening and the receiver arrived as expected the next day. It was clearly new, previously unopened/unused, and it seems to be functioning correctly. So, although the purchase acknowledgment/receipt never happened, and the shipment took four days instead of the specified 2 to 3, it did arrive and appears to be as advertised.

Oh yes, I've also verified that the 82TXS HDMI LPCM LFE decode is 10dB low in comparison to its HDMI bitstream LFE decode. No question, it's real!
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post #182 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Oh yes, I've also verified that the 82TXS HDMI LPCM LFE decode is 10dB low in comparison to its HDMI bitstream LFE decode. No question, it's real!


How did/do you compensate for this?
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post #183 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 07:56 AM
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Interesting. I'd curious to know how to compensate as well. I'll be getting an A2 player, but was wondering if the A2 might correct this issue? Do we know if this is an HD-DVD issue or the receiver? If it's an HD-DVD issue, maybe it was because of the A1 or XA1?
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post #184 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan007 View Post

How did/do you compensate for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Interesting. I'd curious to know how to compensate as well. I'll be getting an A2 player, but was wondering if the A2 might correct this issue? Do we know if this is an HD-DVD issue or the receiver? If it's an HD-DVD issue, maybe it was because of the A1 or XA1?

It was mentioned earlier the problem also exists using an Oppo player using HDMI LPCM, so I'm presuming it to be the 82/84 at fault.

My calibration has all "large" speakers, and so all I could do was lower the player 5.0 channels 10 dB and make sure the receiver 5.1 speaker calibration levels were set as high as the adjustment range allowed (while preserving the relative differences, of course). That requires use of an SPL meter.

I don't hear a sonic difference per se' due to the reduce LPCM levels, but it does mean the master volume will have to be dropped ~10dB before changing to sources having more normal levels -- so don't forget .
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post #185 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

It was mentioned earlier the problem also exists using an Oppo player using HDMI LPCM, so I'm presuming it to be the 82/84 at fault.

My calibration has all "large" speakers, and so all I could do was lower the player 5.0 channels 10 dB and make sure the receiver 5.1 speaker calibration levels were set as high as the adjustment range allowed (while preserving the relative differences, of course). That requires use of an SPL meter.

I don't hear a sonic difference per se' due to the reduce LPCM levels, but it does mean the master volume will have to be dropped ~10dB before changing to sources having more normal levels -- so don't forget .

I have my speakers calibrated to be 75db at 0 using the test tones. So are you suggesting that I calibrate the system to 85db at 0 using the test tones? Then just lower the receiver master volume by -10db so that my normal DVDs play at the correct 75db level?
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post #186 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

I have my speakers calibrated to be 75db at 0 using the test tones. So are you suggesting that I calibrate the system to 85db at 0 using the test tones? Then just lower the receiver master volume by -10db so that my normal DVDs play at the correct 75db level?

I didn't worry about 75dB Vs 85dB or whatever. Use whatever calibration level allows you to achieve the maximum volume from the master volume control -- that will provide the maximum available correction for the HDMI LPCM lowered level. If you can get an entire 10dB out of it, great! I would expect it to be less though since your starting point is probably a scatter around 0dB in the adjustment scale.
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post #187 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

I didn't worry about 75dB Vs 85dB or whatever. Use whatever calibration level allows you to achieve the maximum volume from the master volume control -- that will provide the maximum available correction for the HDMI LPCM lowered level. If you can get an entire 10dB out of it, great! I would expect it to be less though since your starting point is probably a scatter around 0dB in the adjustment scale.

I assume when you mean 0 on the adjustment scale you mean the individual speaker levels? If so, I believe I currently have a mix from -3 to +3 depending on the speaker (maybe more).

Btw, while I calibrated my speakers at 0db on the master volume, I listen to DVDs at -8 to -12db on the master volume.

I'll do some adjustments tonight to test out my 360 add on. I'd like to get that sounding a little better.
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post #188 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

I assume when you mean 0 on the adjustment scale you mean the individual speaker levels? If so, I believe I currently have a mix from -3 to +3 depending on the speaker (maybe more).

Btw, while I calibrated my speakers at 0db on the master volume, I listen to DVDs at -8 to -12db on the master volume.

I'll do some adjustments tonight to test out my 360 add on. I'd like to get that sounding a little better.

That's right. Mine worked out to a range of -6.5 to +10 when maxed (should be checked with an SPL meter, just adding a computed difference isn't reliable). The -6.5 is the subwoofer .
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post #189 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

That's right. Mine worked out to a range of -6.5 to +10 when maxed (should be checked with an SPL meter, just adding a computed difference isn't reliable). The -6.5 is the subwoofer .

No problem. I have an SPL meter. Any issues with running the speakers up to +10 hot?
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post #190 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

No problem. I have an SPL meter. Any issues with running the speakers up to +10 hot?

If the volume is getting a little high for you, just ease back on the remote volume control a little, won't interfere with you manually adjusting the level settings.
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post #191 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

So will the VSX-8x series handle converting audio for delivery via HDMI?

A phone call with Pioneer indicated it ought to do this. But two e-mails from support indicates the VSX-81 and all other Elite receivers cannot deliver audio from non-HMDI sources to the HDMI output.

So much for being able to use one cable.

The only alternative is to pull a separate stereo audio cable, picking up it's signal from one of the recording monitor outputs.
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post #192 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

My calibration has all "large" speakers, and so all I could do was lower the player 5.0 channels 10 dB and make sure the receiver 5.1 speaker calibration levels were set as high as the adjustment range allowed (while preserving the relative differences, of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Use whatever calibration level allows you to achieve the maximum volume from the master volume control -- that will provide the maximum available correction for the HDMI LPCM lowered level.

Alert! I've discovered I was in error on this attempt at "compensation" for the -10dB HDMI LPCM. Although it results in the highest possible volume at 0dB on the master volume control, the final maximum is unchanged since the adjustment range above 0dB shrinks in accordance to the gain shift.

So, although the gain increases at a given volume setting, the maximum gain available doesn't change.

Sorry about that!
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post #193 of 1630 Old 11-22-2006, 11:23 PM
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Help!

I've spent ages now trying to determine how to activate the "AV Parameter" screen. I have two sources configured, one HDMI and the other Optical+S-Video. Both play properly through HDMI, and the S-Video source also plays through S-Video. However, although I can select either of those two sources ("Video-1" and "DVD") or the "Receiver" source and access "Setup", I can't access the "AV Parameter" screen.

What am I overlooking?
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post #194 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 01:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Alert! I've discovered I was in error on this attempt at "compensation" for the -10dB HDMI LPCM. Although it results in the highest possible volume at 0dB on the master volume control, the final maximum is unchanged since the adjustment range above 0dB shrinks in accordance to the gain shift.

So, although the gain increases at a given volume setting, the maximum gain available doesn't change.

Sorry about that!

Just hooked up my multi-channel audio player and sure enough, the Elite guts the ELF again. What is the matter with those morons in Pioneer land? Major drag! Still, I guess the solution for both problems ends up being a sub boosted MCACC profile. Could probably use the same 10dB boosted Subwoofer profile for both, though the highs may require a slightly different treatment. Guess I'm lucky that at least my speaker calibration is all large -- makes it easier.
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post #195 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Just hooked up my multi-channel audio player and sure enough, the Elite guts the ELF again. What is the matter with those morons in Pioneer land? Major drag! Still, I guess the solution for both problems ends up being a sub boosted MCACC profile. Could probably use the same 10dB boosted Subwoofer profile for both, though the highs may require a slightly different treatment. Guess I'm lucky that at least my speaker calibration is all large -- makes it easier.


Can you assign different MCACC profiles to different inputs? In other words, could you assign a sub-boosted MCACC profile to DVD(HDMI) and assign a different profile to Cable TV (optical/coax)?
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post #196 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JayMan007 View Post

Can you assign different MCACC profiles to different inputs? In other words, could you assign a sub-boosted MCACC profile to DVD(HDMI) and assign a different profile to Cable TV (optical/coax)?

I dont' think so. I've tried that, but it appears to be a universal setting.
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post #197 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Just hooked up my multi-channel audio player and sure enough, the Elite guts the ELF again. What is the matter with those morons in Pioneer land? Major drag! Still, I guess the solution for both problems ends up being a sub boosted MCACC profile. Could probably use the same 10dB boosted Subwoofer profile for both, though the highs may require a slightly different treatment. Guess I'm lucky that at least my speaker calibration is all large -- makes it easier.

Are you saying in your settings you have your speakers all set to large? Is this why you are getting no LFE? Or is the LFE handled differently via analog in vs bitstream?
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post #198 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Are you saying in your settings you have your speakers all set to large? Is this why you are getting no LFE? Or is the LFE handled differently via analog in vs bitstream?

Yes, they're all set to large. However, that has no effect on whether LFE is either present or boosted.

The advantage to all speakers set to 'Large' is that there's no bass redirection to the subwoofer from the other channels. This means that a MCACC profile that boosts the subwoofer output will only actually boost the LFE. Otherwise, redirected bass would be boosted as well as the LFE (which would result in the redirected bass being louder than ideal).

However, some people are reporting a modest boost on the subwoofer output of maybe 5dB provides a satisfactory workaround for when some speakers are required to be "Small" (and avoids lowering the 5.0 channel levels for LPCM output from the player). I guess a combined solution would be partial lowering of the player 5.0 HDMI LPCM levels, plus partial subwoofer boosting with an MCACC profile -- think I'm going to try that next for HD-DVD.

The receiver seems to reliably handle the LFE properly when received via bitstream. The problems are just when it receives LFE via either HDMI LPCM or Multichannel Analog Input. However, I just learned there's a workaround for low ELF on the Multichannel Input (top right paragraph on Pg54 of the Manual).

Also finally realized there is no menu screen for "AV Parameter". Whew! Had me going for a while there !
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post #199 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayMan007
Can you assign different MCACC profiles to different inputs? In other words, could you assign a sub-boosted MCACC profile to DVD(HDMI) and assign a different profile to Cable TV (optical/coax)?



I dont' think so. I've tried that, but it appears to be a universal setting.

*EDIT*

You can assign up to 6 MCACC presets. See page 42 of the owners manual. Then when you select a different input, you can manually change the MCACC by click the MCACC button on the bottom of your remote. I'm not sure if you can then set it to a specific input or not.
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post #200 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Yes, they're all set to large. However, that has no effect on whether LFE is either present or boosted.

The advantage to all speakers set to 'Large' is that there's no bass redirection to the subwoofer from the other channels. This means that a MCACC profile that boosts the subwoofer output will only actually boost the LFE. Otherwise, redirected bass would be boosted as well as the LFE (which would result in the redirected bass being louder than ideal).

However, some people are reporting a modest boost on the subwoofer output of maybe 5dB provides a satisfactory workaround for when some speakers are required to be "Small" (and avoids lowering the 5.0 channel levels for LPCM output from the player). I guess a combined solution would be partial lowering of the player 5.0 HDMI LPCM levels, plus partial subwoofer boosting with an MCACC profile -- think I'm going to try that next for HD-DVD.

The receiver seems to reliably handle the LFE properly when received via bitstream. The problems are just when it receives LFE via either HDMI LPCM or Multichannel Analog Input. However, I just learned there's a workaround for low ELF on the Multichannel Input (top right paragraph on Pg54 of the Manual).

Also finally realized there is no menu screen for "AV Parameter". Whew! Had me going for a while there !

Ok I just read that and find it interesting. Does this seem to cure your problem?
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post #201 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 01:30 PM
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Does anyone know if this receiver supports the HR10-250 DirecTV TiVo over HDMI? I've seen reports that some Denons do not.
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post #202 of 1630 Old 11-23-2006, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Ok I just read that and find it interesting. Does this seem to cure your problem?

My current solution for both HDMI LPCM and Multichannel analog is to select an MCACC profile that includes a 7dB subwoofer boost. In addition, I have a relative 3dB subwoofer boost in both players. That's working for now anyway.
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post #203 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 07:12 AM
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Is it possible to select an HDMI input from the remote directly (without scrolling using the Input Select key)? All other inputs have dedicated buttons but the HDMI inputs seem to have been forgotten. My goal is to program macros for my universal remote to select a specific input.

Thanks for any info,
Al Rovner
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post #204 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

My current solution for both HDMI LPCM and Multichannel analog is to select an MCACC profile that includes a 7dB subwoofer boost. In addition, I have a relative 3dB subwoofer boost in both players. That's working for now anyway.

So the +10db to the subwoofer and analog ins did nothing?
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post #205 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

So the +10db to the subwoofer and analog ins did nothing?

No, it worked as advertised. I'm just currently using a shared profile instead.
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post #206 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 01:02 PM
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Gotcha
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post #207 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 03:46 PM
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Regarding the 82TXS handling of LFE -- I spent a lot of time evaluating audio behavior Thursday, and posted a summary in the 84TXSi thread. Perhaps someone will find it helpful:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8980859
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post #208 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

No, it worked as advertised. I'm just currently using a shared profile instead.

Hiya Metalsaber,

Just wanted to let you know I've reverted to using the manual Pg54 solution for Multichannel Input LFE. It's not clear the MCACC profile can be applied during multichannel input -- more research needed I guess.
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post #209 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Hiya Metalsaber,

Just wanted to let you know I've reverted to using the manual Pg54 solution for Multichannel Input LFE. It's not clear the MCACC profile can be applied during multichannel input -- more research needed I guess.

Keep us posted. I hope there is a cure for the HDMI input though as that will be what I use for my A2 when it gets here.

With the 360 add on, I followed your recommendation and boost the sub channel to +8. I watched Tokyo Drift and there was a lot more bass than before. Still not up to what I think it should be, but sounded a lot better than before.
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post #210 of 1630 Old 11-24-2006, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Keep us posted. I hope there is a cure for the HDMI input though as that will be what I use for my A2 when it gets here.

With the 360 add on, I followed your recommendation and boost the sub channel to +8. I watched Tokyo Drift and there was a lot more bass than before. Still not up to what I think it should be, but sounded a lot better than before.

Glad you gained some ground there (try dropping the other 5.0 channels at the player by 2dB). One thing I'm really appreciating is that the sound quality of the 82 is steadily (albeit gradually) improving. I consider that a VERY good sign!

Tonight I'm focusing on multichannel input sound, and frankly, it was a little ragged a couple days ago. I'm focusing on DVD-A and the sound is much more musical than I expected. I've been considering different multichannel cabling options, but the sound is clearly still evolving. Right now I'm playing Donovan's "Fairy Tale" and it is truly beautiful (it doesn't deliver everything, but it definitely delivers a lot). Last night, while watching "The Dirty Dozen" HD-DVD, I was repeatedly surprised by how natural various sounds occurred to me. I feel a major test is for the sound to be reasonably convincing both in the next room and the originating room, and the 82 is doing better and better.

I've read it described as a high value receiver, and I'm becoming increasingly convinced it truly is. At first I wasn't sure whether it was a keeper, but it is gradually convincing me. I would certainly like to have the HDMI LPCM low LFE corrected, but I definitely don't consider that a deal breaker. This is a good box!
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