The "Official" Yamaha RX-V659 / HTR-5960 Thread! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 788 Old 12-17-2006, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Catt99 View Post

One future item I'll report on soon is the iPod connectivity. My wife has a little 2GB nano -- I really had no interest in playing highly compressed music through the receiver when I could play most of the content I want through our CDs. However, I ended up ordering a 30GB video iPod through a member rewards sort of program, and I figure I can store 10 - 20 full albums in uncompressed lossless format with plenty of room to spare for compressed mp3's, video clips, etc. So I ended up using some available online store credits to pick up the iPod dock for this receiver; when the new iPod arrives and I get it set-up, I'll report back on my impressions of the iPod connectivity -- lossless music, compressed music with the built-in enhancer, and video abilities (which apparently is not controllable via remote). The whole iPod connectivity is one I thought I'd have little use for, but it may now be fairly useful.

30GB Video iPod arrived a few days back. I had already used iTunes to import a large number of albums from our CDs - some in lossless format, some compressed. I also downloaded from iTunes a movie trailer for the Simpson's Movie and also a bunch of personal photos for a still image experiment. After updating the new iPod and its operating software, I popped it into the YDS-10 docking station (connected to my HTR-5960) and then followed my owner's manual instructions to initiate OSD iPod abilities. More or less went without much of a hitch (though it should clarify that the 5960 remote needs to be switched between "Amp" and "Source" to control the iPod remotely - I use a Harmony universal remote and, after learning the iPod commands via the 5960 remote, it worked flawlessly).

For my evaluation, I used our family room set-up consisting of a Sony s20L1 (Costco version of Sony s2000) 720p LCD HDTV connected to the 5960 via component; for a CD player I'm using an Oppo 971 via digital coaxial; speakers are the little Athena Micra 6 package with a Bic H-100 sub - so keep in mind that we're not talking high-end speakers in this experiment or any sort of audiophile player / decoder etc. To compare sound between CD and iPod, I set up the Oppo player and the iPod to play the same track at the same time, and then switched back and forth between inputs as the tracks played. I used pure direct" mode, stereo 2-channel," and the Yamaha compressed music enhancer at various different points. I selected older rock music tracks that I'm pretty familiar with -- Rush's "Closer to the Heart" in lossless and Led Zeppelin's "Ramble On" compressed. Was going to test on some demanding classical stuff, but I am just not familiar enough and I was ready to wind down my testing at that point.

To start, I experimented with lossless (uncompressed) music from the iPod. The perceived sound levels between iPod and CD player was somewhere about 10 dbs difference (iPod quieter) - I didn't want to try and calibrate with an SPL to find out the precise difference so I could truly compare apples to apples - I just did it by ear switching inputs with one hand and adjusting volume with the other. I expected the lossless iPod stream and the CD to be identical, and I think they are very, very close; however, I still felt the iPod stream was just a little less rich, a tad more flat - I have no idea why, logically, this should be - it could be simple psychology (this isn't a blind test), inaccurate by ear volume adjusts between inputs, or something to do with the Apple lossless transfer - in any event, it sounded good enough to play lossless music from the iPod regularly.

I next compared typical compressed music versus the CD player. Here, the differences were evident in pure direct and in 2-channel stereo mode. The compressed iPod streams are clearly distinguishable from uncompressed CD samples; good news is that they are in fact noticeably improved with the compressed music enhancer DSP in the 5960 - it seems to do its job very well - there is still a difference in sound quality (not surprisingly) but it is quite a bit less noticeable. Given the choice, I'll use my CDs for focused listening; for background music such as when working on a computer or busy with something else that is a drain on attention, I think even compressed music with the Yamaha enhancer is solid enough to be comfortable with for most types of music.

Still images and video is available through the dock. Not surprisingly, the quality / resolution isn't great. I am still new to video iPod, and so may be screwing something up - I tried to load the HD (720p) version of the Simpson's Movie trailer mentioned above, but the iPod wouldn't accept the file since it is incapable of displaying it; I hoped that while the iPod couldn't display it, it could pass the data through the 5960 to my display but can't figure out if this is even possible. So my video experiment was limited to mpeg4 version of the trailer. The still photos I used in a slideshow and were OK but also showed the bit of blockiness associated with scaling it to the 40 display - still, the kids got a big kick out of seeing themselves on the TV. A final note on the image docking process: apparently due to the software design in the iPod, you can't control any of the image / video settings via remote - the only menu items that appear in the OSD of the display attached to the 5960 is music-related - to manage video one must physically work the iPod in its docking cradle.

So, all in all, I am happy with the dock and the 5960's performance with it. For the $50 or so I ended up paying for the dock, it provides a very convenient way to charge our iPods, play music from the iPod at either comparable quality or a quality level that, while below that of a CD, isn't by any stretch bad for routine listening (especially with the enhancer enabled or with a lossless recording), view still image slideshows, and watch videos to boot (though nowhere near the quality one might be used to on an HD set).

One request for any others with the dock and a compatible Yamaha receiver: I read in the Gene DellaSala's Audioholics' review of this receiver that there are potentially dire consequences to power cycling the receiver with an iPod in the dock - I haven't had the guts (or foolhardiness) to experiment, and would appreciate hearing from anyone who has done so. I will be much happier knowing I can store my iPod in the dock without worrying about power cycles (especially with others in the house turning the set-up on and off).
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post #92 of 788 Old 12-18-2006, 04:59 AM
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Hi Catt99,

I'm wondering what compression codec and rate you were using for the 'compressed' version.

One of these days I'm going to have to do some testing of this on my own... but like you said, I think for casual listening, the compressed ones aren't bad. I've not really done a comparison back and fourth between the two.

Also, can you tell the difference between pure direct" mode, stereo 2-channel" mode? I couple times I've though maybe I could a bit in the bass... but it might just be my imagination too... but, I typically just leave it in 'stereo 2-channel', as it is so close.

I'm a bit bummed now that I don't have the 'compressed music enhancer DSP', as I do quite a bit of streaming from iTunes on the computer to the receiver. I guess I just need to find the 'happy spot' for how much compression to use.

Thanks,

-Steve

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post #93 of 788 Old 12-18-2006, 06:51 PM
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Steve -

I used AAC (MPEG-4) at 128K. Didn't really think much about the choice at the time. Is .mp3 at 192K better (or something else)?

I've never really focused on differences between pure direct and 2 channel stereo and didn't at this time either -- I tested them both here in an effort to compare the CD versus the iPod; I can't say I noticed any difference between the two (other than all the video circuitry turning off, obviously) though I wasn't really listening for it -- I almost never use pure direct -- like you I tend to use 2-channel, though sometimes I play with the DSPs or 7-channel stereo. I also used 7-channel stereo for a bit with the iPod / CD comparison but not really as rigorously as the other modes I reported on above.
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post #94 of 788 Old 12-20-2006, 06:44 PM
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I upgraded from a RX V595 to this RX V659. I think I paid less for the V659 and this unit is superior to my old one. Call it "Bright" if you must but the bass and highs just stand out without using additional boost of bass or treble controls. No problems passing 480P to HD Panasonic projector which up samples to 720P. I'll check HDTC Directv signal next week, don't foresee any problems. I really seemed to be getting the most of of YPAO feature. Can't see a big difference between "Straight" and "Pure Direct" but enjoy the convenience of having this feature for cd pcm music sources.

Only problem so far is YPAO Auto mode indicates one of my rear surrounds out of phase I need to check into this further.

Undecided yet to just use XM Directv source or go with a optional XM mini-tuner.

Overall so far, nice receiver, great value.

Enjoy
oth

Phase problem corrected after setting amplifier to the correct impedance.
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post #95 of 788 Old 12-22-2006, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt99 View Post

Steve -

I used AAC (MPEG-4) at 128K. Didn't really think much about the choice at the time. Is .mp3 at 192K better (or something else)?

I'm not sure about AAC @ 128 compared to MP3 @ 192. I read one time that people couldn't tell the difference between the two, so it appears that AAC is a bit more efficient codec for the same quality level. I'm currently running MP3 @ 192, primarily for compatibility reasons.

However, in the preferences under advanced, then importing, you can set which type of codec is used, and if you select 'custom' you can set the encoding rates at up to 320 kbps, as well as other options.

What I'd like to do one of these days, is take some CDs and tracks I am familiar with.... rip them to Apple Lossless, as well as MP3 (maybe AAC) at a few different rates..... then have them random play... and see if I can tell any differences. If so, at what point I can. Then I'll know what rate I should be encoding to.

I guess if I notice it for any level of compression, I'm kind of screwed at the moment, as my collection won't fit at Apple Lossless. But, I'm guessing, some level of compression is going to get to the point where I can't really tell. If I find that point... then it doesn't really matter if it is 'technically' not as good, or if others can tell. If I'm happy with it, then that is what matters.

-Steve

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post #96 of 788 Old 12-23-2006, 09:45 PM
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Here's the link:

http://www.audioholics.com/productre...uct-awards.php

Great News, especially since I am planning to pick up an HTR-5960 on Boxing Day.

Now I will have visions of Sugar Plums... or at least Banana Plugs.
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post #97 of 788 Old 12-27-2006, 09:47 AM
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I have the Yamaha receiver RX-V659 and recently bought the Yamaha Ipod dock YDS-10. When I hooked it up with my ipod and can hear the music thru my speakers but can't see any video thru it. I have the new video 80gb Ipod so it should work. Can anyone help me??
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post #98 of 788 Old 12-27-2006, 09:13 PM
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I just found this thread,

Just bought a used HTR-5960 and Athena AS-F2, AS-C1 center channel, AS-400 powered sub ( I have Velodyne sub and using it instead of the AS-400, what do you think? ) and a pair of surround speakers from same owner for killer price.

Just played Fast and Furious, Tokyo Drift and the sound rocks. Personally, the sound is very tranparent and natural to me. I've not done any tweaking yet; need to study the manual and this thread first.

Any experienced member with this unit can tell me if i'm going the right way, here...

HDMI connection from Samsung Upscaling DVD player directly to Sony KF800 via DVI adapter. Audio by rca cables to the receiver (should I use optical cable to get 7.1 channel?).

What would be the ideal way to connect these units? I'm going to use it for primarily watching movies.
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post #99 of 788 Old 12-28-2006, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kf800owner View Post

I just found this thread,

Just bought a used HTR-5960 and Athena AS-F2, AS-C1 center channel, AS-400 powered sub ( I have Velodyne sub and using it instead of the AS-400, what do you think? ) and a pair of surround speakers from same owner for killer price.

Just played Fast and Furious, Tokyo Drift and the sound rocks. Personally, the sound is very tranparent and natural to me. I've not done any tweaking yet; need to study the manual and this thread first.

Any experienced member with this unit can tell me if i'm going the right way, here...

HDMI connection from Samsung Upscaling DVD player directly to Sony KF800 via DVI adapter. Audio by rca cables to the receiver (should I use optical cable to get 7.1 channel?).

What would be the ideal way to connect these units? I'm going to use it for primarily watching movies.

Welcome aboard!

I also use HDMI from the DVD player direct to my TV. I then use an optical cable (bought from monoprice.com, fab prices) from the DVD player to my Yamaha receiver. Works and sounds great, couldn't be more pleased.
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post #100 of 788 Old 12-28-2006, 09:52 AM
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Are you able to see OSD with optical cable connection? I need to do what I think is called YPAO but want to make sure audio wiring is correct before proceeding.

Thanks
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post #101 of 788 Old 12-28-2006, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by kf800owner View Post

Are you able to see OSD with optical cable connection? I need to do what I think is called YPAO but want to make sure audio wiring is correct before proceeding.

Thanks

Yep! Your OSD will come over the HDMI cable to the set. The sound will come through via the optical calbe. I ran through the YPAO setup several times, just cause I thought it was so cool to listen and watch the whole process!
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post #102 of 788 Old 12-28-2006, 02:20 PM
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I got the Yamaha RX-V659 and the Ipod dock YDS-10. For some reason I can't see the display menu on my screen. I can hear the music thru the speakers and even se videos but can see the ipod menu on my screen. I heard that you have to see a Yamaha icon on my ipod when connected but I can't get it to appear. Can anyone help me????
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post #103 of 788 Old 12-28-2006, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edmed03 View Post

I got the Yamaha RX-V659 and the Ipod dock YDS-10. For some reason I can't see the display menu on my screen. I can hear the music thru the speakers and even se videos but can see the ipod menu on my screen. I heard that you have to see a Yamaha icon on my ipod when connected but I can't get it to appear. Can anyone help me????

There is a setting on your iPod that you need to change in order to view videos on your TV. Videos -> Video Settings -> TV Out needs to be set to "On" (and set to "Off" to watch anything on the iPod screen).

If you've figured out how to do that (a little unclear in your post), then in order to see the iPod music menu on your TV, you need to have a video connection between the Yamaha and your TV, and also need to set the input to V-Aux. Curiously, I just did this with mine to verify and I couldn't pull up the iPod menu by manually switching inputs at the Yamaha unit -- I had to use the remote to select "V-Aux" as the input and when I did so, I immediately got the iPod menu. Try selecting "V-Aux" as the input from the Yamaha remote (instead of manually dialing to it on the Yamaha itself, if you had previously done that).
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post #104 of 788 Old 12-29-2006, 05:16 AM
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I did what you told me but no luck. I did change the setting to TV out and the videos I can see, but still havent been able to see the ipod menu. Any other suggestions???
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post #105 of 788 Old 12-29-2006, 10:01 AM
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Well I picked up an HTR 5690 on Boxing Day for a great price and am in the process of hooking it up. I just got the fronts and sub going to listen to some CD's - very nice.

Anyway, for any trivia buffs, there is a musical score written on the outside of the box that the unit comes in. Turns out it's one of my favourite pieces of music, so that was like a good omen.

Anyone know what piece of music it is?
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post #106 of 788 Old 12-29-2006, 02:20 PM
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A question for you owners that perhaps have figured this out, and a few comments. The question:

One of the not mentioned in this thread differences (supposedly) is the ability of the 659 to bridge (assign, in Yamaha speak, I think) the 7.1 presence channels to the front channels. This would help in the rather limited power of the amp, and I fear I'm going to need same. But I can't find mention of this in the owner's manual. Can anybody instruct me on the how it works, if it works aspects? I've seen Yamaha pictures explaining the concept so I know they do mean it bridges, but can find out how to turn it on or what implication it has, if any, to the impedance requirements of the amp section. As I'll be using low impedance power hungry speakers all this matters.

A little help guys?

Comments:

Power:
No, I don't believe this amp has 700 watts continuos RMS 20-20k. It will have very very close to 50% of the power supplies input (400w), and it would seem that's /7 to get a per channel rating. So we're dealing w/about 30w per channel 20-20k rms all channels driven. Not that I care. I'll run the thing under 10 watts continous, but I need the lots headroom.. 200 peak to peak is about minimum. Note the question above about bridging..

Brightness:
Maybe so. I've not heard them, but surely we all agree electronics can color sound. But rarely as much as a speaker can affect things. Unless this is a major tonal screw-up it might even be a good thing. A Yamaha probably will sound very nice on some magnepans.

Bkopp: I noted you asked what speakers would sound good on this amp for sub $500. I'd be thinking MMG-W pretty hard, then I'd take the balance and start saving for a good tight sub. I wonder how the klipsch 10 would sound? Personally, I'm wondering about the MC1's
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post #107 of 788 Old 12-29-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edmed03 View Post

I did what you told me but no luck. I did change the setting to TV out and the videos I can see, but still havent been able to see the ipod menu. Any other suggestions???

Are you switching the remote selector switch from "AMP" to "Source"? -- this is a side mounted slider that is next to the volume +/- buttons. When set on AMP it just cycles through the OSD options or brings up the OSD for the receiver. You first need to switch it to "Source" and then press the "display" button. Front panel of Yamaha should read "Loading . . " for a second or two, and then the iPod screen comes up. All the iPod commands only work with the selector set on "source."

If that doesn't do it, you should probably contact Yamaha directly (I don't use the iPod all that much, and programmed all the remote commands into a universal remote, so I'm not real experienced with the tips and tricks for the YDS-10 and, as you know, the manual for the dock is near useless -- the iPod control section of the manual for the receiver leaves a lot to be desired, too).
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post #108 of 788 Old 12-30-2006, 08:07 PM
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Everything I've read on these boards talks about setting the receiver's crossover to 80 Hz as a rule of thumb.

I have Paradigm Cinema 110 CT speakers hooked up to my RX-V659 Yamaha receiver.

I've used the YPOA on my receiver 3 times and it continues to set all of my speakers to small (as expected) and the sub crossover to 200 Hz. Just curious if there is any reason that it should be set this high?

Thanks
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post #109 of 788 Old 12-30-2006, 08:36 PM
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just set it at 80 , or what ever you want

http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3418

super dirty , super clean , pow
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post #110 of 788 Old 12-31-2006, 03:25 AM
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Anybody want to take a shot at the "assignable" puzzler I mentioned?
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post #111 of 788 Old 12-31-2006, 03:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfischer View Post

Anybody want to take a shot at the "assignable" puzzler I mentioned?


look on pages 87, 96, 105 of the manual, theres a mention of powering the 2zone and presence channels. Not sure if thats what your looking for.

super dirty , super clean , pow
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post #112 of 788 Old 12-31-2006, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dfischer View Post


Bkopp: I noted you asked what speakers would sound good on this amp for sub $500. I'd be thinking MMG-W pretty hard, then I'd take the balance and start saving for a good tight sub. I wonder how the klipsch 10 would sound? Personally, I'm wondering about the MC1's

It's been awhile since I ran a pair of Maggies, but as I remember they are not very efficient and need a good deal of power and headroom. Not sure I'd use a yammy to power them. When I did have a set, I was running them from a modified Hafler. I love the sound of the Maggies, and would suggest anyone who has the opportunity should give them a listen, or even spring for the MMG with their money back program.

Tom N.
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post #113 of 788 Old 01-02-2007, 08:11 PM
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Doc:

Thanks. I'm really looking for hard data points. I've seen nothing that speaks to the impedence supported while bridged, or shows a bridged power output. I'll go look at the pages you suggest again. Seems like the owners manual can be downloaded.

Tom:

Yes, I too wonder about the power. I really treat this amp as a 30W amp, but of course it's all about the headroom. Nobody listens to more then 10W or so continous..

I've both a NAD 7120 and a Tandberg hanging around from the old days. The Tandberg drove an old set of maggies just fine (well, maggies seem to like power) but I could get listening levels certainly adequate to the task at hand.

Actually it seems Magnepan is brinding a motorized MC-1 out and then an option to imprint designs on the socks next. As you can imagine, both will help the WAF. Thus, I'm now thinking MMG-W's as an interim.... If I could get away w/floor standing I'd buy the MMG's in a flash.



If anybody has any specs, data, as answer on this "assigned vs impedance" this I'd sure appreciate it.


Thanks guys,

dan
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post #114 of 788 Old 01-02-2007, 09:09 PM
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Question on sound choices.
My older Yamaha receiver had a "6.1/5.1" button that would take a Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1 and matrix a 6.1.

The 659 does not have this button.

Seems like the closest thing I can do with the 659 is to set the extended surround to give me DD + DPL IIx.

Is this Dolby Digital for the front 3 + 2 surrounds, and a dolby prologic IIx for the 6th and 7th speakers?
or is this altering my front and surround signal?
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post #115 of 788 Old 01-02-2007, 09:19 PM
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I ordered an RX-V659 today. I strongly considered going for the RX-V2700, but common sense prevailed. I have no need for the HDMI or network features, so the 659 fit my requirements perfectly. I'll be using it as my PC's audio system and will pair it with two HTD Level 3 bookshelf speakers and a Rocket Tyke subwoofer. I'll post my comments/impressions when it arrives, next week.
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post #116 of 788 Old 01-03-2007, 10:47 AM
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Hooked up my new 5960 last night. I have Def Tech Promonitors and subs hooked up along with my PS3 and DTVHD...5.1 for now... So far I love it. The sound is phenominal. While goofing around with the setup, I came across Twister on HBO. There was a scene where the two talking outside in the rain. I could hear the rain around and behind so clearly. I'm difinitely pleased with the upgrade. By the way the Def Techs really fill the room nicely for their size. Great sound and nice pairing with the 5960.
Thanks
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post #117 of 788 Old 01-05-2007, 08:09 AM
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Received my 659 last weekend on recommendations from this forum. Got it for under $400, shipped next day.
For those of us building home theater on a budget look no further. I haven't owned a system that sounds this "musical" since the seventies. For those concerned about brightness with the Yamaha, I did find that the auto setup produced a bright sound. I reset the receiver and made my own minor adjustments, sounds very clean and natural.
Only drawback is no hdmi switching.
This unit is a steal.

TRUST in your EARS!
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post #118 of 788 Old 01-05-2007, 01:23 PM
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I decided to spend the extra dough (and use some gift cards) and pick up a 5960 today after returning a faulty 5950. This upgrades from an old Sony DE model I was using previously. I'm hoping it will be good to power some new Onix X-LS speakers that UPS delivered today! I can't wait to get home from work and try everything out.
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post #119 of 788 Old 01-05-2007, 06:47 PM
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Can someone tell me what's the best way to hook up audio for 5960? Should I use rca cable or optical cable? is optical cable for audio only or for both?
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post #120 of 788 Old 01-05-2007, 08:16 PM
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I'm new here and have had my 659 for about 2 weeks. I am trying to figure out what the design is for the "presence" channels and how to use them. The manual for this thing is almost as bad as the user interface. I hooked up 2 small speakers to the presence/zone 2 connections and the auto setup does not find them. I attempt to manually enable them using the manual speaker setup menu but it won't let me switch from "none" to "yes". I have successfully turned on zone 2 and had sound come out of them but cannot figure out how to change the volume - what a confusing arrangement. I'm a 30-year veteran electrical engineer and this thing is driving me nuts! I don't understand your comment about bridging the presence speakers with the front speakers. Bridging is generally when you drive 2 amps out of phase across one speaker in order to get more power. What really puzzles me is whether this thing has 7.1 amp channels AND 2 presence amp channels or are they doing something really wierd to get these presence channels like use the rear amps or something. Any clues?
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