Marantz SR4001/5001/7001/8001 - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m@rkus View Post

I think the only AVR to upconvert analog signals to 1080p today is the Sony STR-DA5200es. But, from most reports here on AVS, the scaler isn't that great so it may not even be worth the consideration if you are just looking for a unit to scale to 1080p.

A scaler would not be required for this, would it? It is just plain upconversion going from 1080p component to 1080p hdmi, no one is talking about going from 720p or 1080i inputs to 1080p output via a scaling process. But, your comment is still valid insofar as maybe very few AVRs upconverting analog 1080p to digital. Maybe in the next rev of these devices.
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post #302 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 09:01 AM
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davedelite - I honestly don't know. Its my understanding that component video cannot carry 1080p regardless. I may be wrong - which is quite possible.

My comment was more geared towards upscaling 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i signals.

With regards to the Marantz and 1080p, it may be that it cannot accept a 1080p signal via component or as I just mentioned, component may not even be able to carry 1080p.
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post #303 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 09:58 AM
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I start my AVR replacement at the crack of down tomorrow. I am cautiously excited about the change out. For those not wanting to read back.. It will be out with the Denon 4802 and in with the Marantz SR7001. Maybe a full report back here by the end of the weekend.
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post #304 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I start my AVR replacement at the crack of down tomorrow. I am cautiously excited about the change out. For those not wanting to read back.. It will be out with the Denon 4802 and in with the Marantz SR7001. Maybe a full report back here by the end of the weekend.


JnD,
Good luck with your new toy

I believe that you will enjoy your Marantz SR7001. I am quite pleased with similar SR8001 that I installed in November. I am running all type of input signals, with HDMI out to my DLP projector. Active sources include DVD player, Xbox360HD, SlingBox Pro, DVD+R, HD DirectTV, CD Player, etc.

One nice feature is the ability to rename your inputs. As an example, renamed VCR1= Xbox360, TV=DVD+R, etc. The new names appear on the front panel display, making it easier for the family.
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post #305 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 10:22 AM
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Nice to hear there DonQijote....

I would have gotten the SR8001 if I didn't use all extrenal amps, it just seemed over kill, so I decided to save some money.
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post #306 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 10:55 AM
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To clarify, I'm not asking the SR7001 to upconvert component to 1080p, I'm asking it to transfer an existing 1080p component signal via the HDMI out. It transfers 480i, 480p, 720p and 1080i from component signals to the HDMI out, I cannot get it to move my Xbox 360 1080p signal via component out of the HDMI.

Edit: Just saw davedelite's follow up, missed page 11! We said the same thing.
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post #307 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 11:10 AM
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tbassny - as I mentioned earlier, I don't think component cable is capable of transmitting 1080p, despite you setting the Xbox 360 to do so.
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post #308 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m@rkus View Post

tbassny - as I mentioned earlier, I don't think component cable is capable of transmitting 1080p, despite you setting the Xbox 360 to do so.

It's my understanding that some 1080p displays are not capable of accepting (or a better term would be displaying) such a signal over component. But it is possible on certain newer sets. If you want I will take a picture of my TV with the 360 hooked up via component that shows 1080p/60 on the info screen, but I don't want to be "that guy." Besides, it will just show that my TV accepts it, not displays it (which it can't no matter what the cable, since it's 768p).

Either way, it's not something I'm trying to do anyway. My display can take a 1080p signal, but this is of little use to me, as the display is 768p. I keep my Xbox 360 and my Oppo 981 at 720p resolutions, so that my TV does as little scaling as possible. I'm just testing it for the good of the forum.

So my understanding is that 1080p will move over component, but the bulk of 1080p sources (Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc.) won't allow it because there's no HDCP (though I guess the HD-DVD looked the other way and allowed VGA).

This article gives a great little chart at the end that lays out what resolutions are possible between component and VGA on the Xbox 360 and the HD-DVD add-on.
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post #309 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 12:58 PM
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Thanks - I'll read the article.
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post #310 of 2839 Old 12-15-2006, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m@rkus View Post

Thanks - I'll read the article.

I sent a specific question to Marantz at this webpage

http://us.marantz.com/AboutUs/75.asp

and got a really fast response with the exact information I requested.
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post #311 of 2839 Old 12-16-2006, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbassny View Post

To clarify, I'm not asking the SR7001 to upconvert component to 1080p, I'm asking it to transfer an existing 1080p component signal via the HDMI out.

This "transferring" is the definition of upconverting. Going from the analog component to the digital HDMI is "upconverting" from analog to digital in the mind of Marantz (and I think some other manufacturers) is the terminology they are using in their manuals, even if you are staying in the same format. It is scaling when you are going from one format to another...example, 480p to 720p, and deinterlacing only when going from 480i to 480p as an example.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbassny View Post

So my understanding is that 1080p will move over component, but the bulk of 1080p sources (Blu-ray, HD-DVD, etc.) won't allow it because there's no HDCP (though I guess the HD-DVD looked the other way and allowed VGA).

This is correct. Go to www.hdtvsupply.com and you will see a ton of component cables and switchers that are 1080p tested and certified.


Again, going back you will see tbassny successfully tested 1080p component pass through and 1080p HDMI pass through. He just had an issue with one source device (the 360's dashboard) when trying to get 1080p in to come through as 1080p out via HDMI. I am doubting it is a "source" issue unique to the 360 and am now convinced it is an issue of the upconversion limitation of the receiver. Look on page 41 and the second overall paragraph (the first one under the title of "UP-Conversion from Analog Video Signals to HDMI") and you will see the omission of 1080p. They either didn't plan on being much demand for managing incoming 1080p analog signals due to few sources allowing these signals to come through component (which appears logical for the most part), or it is a fundamental limitation of the chip capability that has no impact when just trying to pass through.

Finally, I don't even recall whad DID happen when tbassny tried to get an HDMI out signal from his 1080p component 360 dashboard source. Can you just verify again. Did you get a black screen or somethign? Or, did your display device register a lesser format?

After that, I think we have kicked this issue around enough. Until someone else verifies that they have tested with some other source and found that 1080p component is carried through to 1080p HDMI....then we can challenge the thinking that it was not a "designed in" capability.
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post #312 of 2839 Old 12-16-2006, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedelite View Post

This "transferring" is the definition of upconverting. Going from the analog component to the digital HDMI is "upconverting" from analog to digital in the mind of Marantz (and I think some other manufacturers) is the terminology they are using in their manuals, even if you are staying in the same format. It is scaling when you are going from one format to another...example, 480p to 720p, and deinterlacing only when going from 480i to 480p as an example.

Marantz literature also uses the phrase "format conversion" with respect to processing video signals to enable output over a cable other than that used for the input.

Also, their literature use the phrase "I/P conversion" with respect to deinterlacing 480i to 480p.

I find "upconversion" vague and confusing. It hints that scaling is taking place, when it may not, and implies that converting component to HDMI somehow improves the signal when it is really just converting analog to digital for convenience in the cabling connections between devices.
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post #313 of 2839 Old 12-18-2006, 07:11 AM
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yes, confusing for sure.

I got my SR7001 installed this past Saturday. The table format for video and digital audio assignments while probably a much better user friendly way to do it really took me a few hours to start to catch on too.

The de-interlacer and subsquent conversion to HDMI from SVideo sources was OK / watchable, but was not as good as taking the svideo monitor out and routing it to the projector directly. The next Laserdisc I screen, I will experiement with the 480i straight transcode to HDMI. I have some hope for this, because I did test my 1080i SD-DVD upconverting player and it looked identical when I was viewing it off the Component monitor output of the 7001 or the HDMI transcoded output of the 7001, indicating to me the transcode is very very good.

It switched my problematic for me A1 HD-DVD player. I had tried three other switchers w/remotes that produced only an HDMI Error 1 from the A1 HD-DVD player. So this makes the AVR a way keeper for me.

Sonically, I think it sounds a little better than my Denon 4802 amazing enough. But keep in mind I am only using it as a pre/pro with all external amplification.

The bad? I would say the AVR needs to support more sources. Beware here when considering it or any other late model AVR for that matter, I can only assume the 8001 supports more, but the SR7001 is topped out at 8 devices. You can sort of fool it and get a few more out of it, but really 8 devices and that's it.

The remote for the 7001 means well, but I was having a devil of a time Sunday using it until I got it progammed up on the Harmony 880 remote. It is in the Harmony database and works well.

I now have my HD Sat box, my A1 HD-DVD player, and my BD-P1000 Blu-ray players all hooked up recieving Audio and Video only through the HDMI input on the AVR. Switching feels very high quality. I left my OTA tuner hooked up via VGA directly to the projector as it only offers DVI output so I would have had to run a separate digital audio connection anyways.
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post #314 of 2839 Old 12-18-2006, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

The bad? I would say the AVR needs to support more sources. Beware here when considering it or any other late model AVR for that matter, I can only assume the 8001 supports more, but the SR7001 is topped out at 8 devices. You can sort of fool it and get a few more out of it, but really 8 devices and that's it.

I own the 8001 and it appears it only takes 8 inputs. This suprised more for an AVR of this level. Obviously, there are numerous unused physical inputs on the back but I presently have all of the designated/labeled inputs used and I need more. Is there a way to assign used inputs beyond this or is there a work around.
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post #315 of 2839 Old 12-18-2006, 12:34 PM
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Well, if you have any analog / audio only devices, you can piggy back a video source that uses coax/optical digital on to it. When the video source is off it will auto to analog and give you sound, and when the video / digital audio device is in use it will auto to the digital audio.

It was hella stupid for Marantz to not just include a few more user defined options. I hate the hard labeling on the remote (well the Sr7001 remote anyways).

Can you list what you have hooked up and what you still need to hook up?

I have:
HD-Sat Box via HDMI
OTA-HD Box - via coax digital audio - video straight to my display via VGA
Sony 400 disc CD Juke - Via analog now - so I could piggy back AC3 LD on to it as wel
Pioneer CLD-99 Laserdisc player -via svideo-optical and analog audio( I used the tape input)
HD-DVD player - via HDMI
Blu-ray player - via HDMI
Svideo VCR - Via svideo - analog audio
SD-DVD Player - Via 1080i Component video input - coax digital audio
May laserdisc has two svideo outs, Optical audio as well as AC3 audio outputs, I used the second svideo out and AC3 digital out piggy bakced on the CD and switch my player to the analog output.

I mean, there are so many other devices that could be hooked up, seems crazy to me to limit the AVR so much in this manner.
Best of luck, Marantz needed to think this format through a little more. I almost returned it, but dang it sounds good, and it switches even my problematic HDMI devices smoothly.
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post #316 of 2839 Old 12-18-2006, 09:06 PM
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What sort of problems were you seeing with your DirectTV, may I ask ? I assume it is the HD DirectTivo perhaps ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbrod1 View Post

Just for the record, I hooked up the Dish TV 622DVR via HDMI and it is working well. Unfortunately this was not the case with my Direct TV tuner or my Oppo 970HD and even Marantz says there is a handshake issue with them. I picked up the new Toshiba HD-A2 over the weekend and it is working fine via HDMI so I will no longer be using the Oppo anyway.

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post #317 of 2839 Old 12-18-2006, 11:29 PM
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Does anyone know whether Marantz will release an HDMI 1.3 compatible version of their receivers soon?
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post #318 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 02:21 AM
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Do the SR7001 and SR8001 handle the 10db LFE boost correctly through HDMI - Blu/Ray & HD DVD.

Also, can anyone confirm DPL2 will work on 5.1 PCM with the PS3 (i want lossless, but I still want the 6th and 7th channel to be used).

Thanks
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post #319 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STriderGT View Post

Does anyone know whether Marantz will release an HDMI 1.3 compatible version of their receivers soon?

Just a guess here, but since these receivers are all still basically brand new, I'd say next year around september/october is when you'll see HDMI 1.3 from Marantz.

If anything comes out earlier, I'd say maybe an updated flagship from Marantz since these new models now have some features the flagship does not.

Thanks Richard

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.
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post #320 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jon smith View Post

Do the SR7001 and SR8001 handle the 10db LFE boost correctly through HDMI - Blu/Ray & HD DVD.

Also, can anyone confirm DPL2 will work on 5.1 PCM with the PS3 (i want lossless, but I still want the 6th and 7th channel to be used).

Thanks

I have definetly verified this one, with the ST7001 your get a choice of EX, or DPLIIx for this. I can't get it to ever process anything when recieving 2.0 PCM though via the HDMI. It says it is, but only front L/R produce sound no matter what mode you select.


As far as the 10+ DB boost? I never had any issues with this on my old AVR and don't seem to be have any issues with it on this one either, even now that I am using the HDMI instead of the 5.1 analog connectiona s with my old AVR.
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post #321 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 06:03 AM
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I still find that 2.0 thing a little hard to believe. It's a rather critical bug. Have you been back to the dealer? Has anyone else seen this?
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post #322 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 06:45 AM
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Could it be a 96/24 issue? Like maybe it cannot process such a high res digital audio signal?

I have not been back to the dealer, I guess it didn't bug me quite as bad. I mean this is only on 2.0 LPCM lossless tracks and so far only on Blu-ray. I just chose one of the 5.1 tracks instead. You know, this is an odd one too. I am going to recheck all this. because I swear last night I found out my Sat box only sends 2.0 PCM via it's HDMI connection. (Very irritating, but I am pretty sure it was giving me DPLIIx surround), But when I did it from my BP player it was not.

I'll do some more testing and post back. There is so much to check and so many devices to check stuff with, really hard to make any sort of accurate sweeping statements like that, I would not be surprised if it does work in some instances andnot others.
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post #323 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 08:32 AM
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You're right, it can't surround process 96kHz. That's in the manual. I would hope the display would show that it's not doing it though.

What's the source? Most HD/BD discs are actually 48kHz, as far as I understand, but I understand the Toshiba HD-A1/A2 may sometimes upsample to 96kHz for no apparent reason. (I'd call that a fairly serious design flaw).
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post #324 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 09:01 AM
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This was either Legends of Jazz or Pat Metheny Live on BD, well I should check that too, Pat Metheny may be on HD-DVD as well.


Interesting, I never considered the source could be to high rez. Two channel like that on a music performance isn't the worst thing in the world either, I will have to listen to see if I think it sounds better.
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post #325 of 2839 Old 12-19-2006, 06:02 PM
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Hi!

So I am on the verge of deciding between the 7001 and one of the Yamahas - I am favouring the Marantz in terms of warmth and the great support/warranty, but I do have a few questions :

1) Firmware updates - how are these applied ? For the Yamaha there seems to be a very easy process of burning CD then feeding output optical - quite neat

2) Do people have dropout issues on the Marantz with HDMI audio from HDR10-250s ? OR Hd-A2 s ? These are my current HDMI devices, and I'd really like them both to work without going optical if possible - pipe dream ?

Any other advice or comments would be most welcome - I have trawled through many many pages of comments and forums to get to this shortlist, but am still open to advice !

-g.

p.s.
I am replacing my older NAD T770 btw, so if anyone is interested in that, feel free to PM away :-)
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post #326 of 2839 Old 12-20-2006, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

Well, if you have any analog / audio only devices, you can piggy back a video source that uses coax/optical digital on to it. When the video source is off it will auto to analog and give you sound, and when the video / digital audio device is in use it will auto to the digital audio.

It was hella stupid for Marantz to not just include a few more user defined options. I hate the hard labeling on the remote (well the Sr7001 remote anyways).

Can you list what you have hooked up and what you still need to hook up?

I have:
HD-Sat Box via HDMI
OTA-HD Box - via coax digital audio - video straight to my display via VGA
Sony 400 disc CD Juke - Via analog now - so I could piggy back AC3 LD on to it as wel
Pioneer CLD-99 Laserdisc player -via svideo-optical and analog audio( I used the tape input)
HD-DVD player - via HDMI
Blu-ray player - via HDMI
Svideo VCR - Via svideo - analog audio
SD-DVD Player - Via 1080i Component video input - coax digital audio
May laserdisc has two svideo outs, Optical audio as well as AC3 audio outputs, I used the second svideo out and AC3 digital out piggy bakced on the CD and switch my player to the analog output.

I mean, there are so many other devices that could be hooked up, seems crazy to me to limit the AVR so much in this manner.
Best of luck, Marantz needed to think this format through a little more. I almost returned it, but dang it sounds good, and it switches even my problematic HDMI devices smoothly.

Thanks for asking. Here are the input devices that I presently have hooked up to the 8001.

1. HD DVR Cable STB SA 8300 - via HDMI

2. A 2nd STB SA 8300 - Dig audio in only. The video goes to a component matrix switcher for distribution to 8 different displays/outputs

3. Marantz DV9600 DVD player - via HDMI

4. Pioneer DVD player - Dig audio in only (video to matrix switcher)

5. Escient audio server - via Svideo and Dig audio

6. Marantz Ipod base/adapter - via Svideo and Analog audio

7. Netstreams Digilinx Audiodistribution - via Analog audio

8. Matrix switcher - via Analog audio

Presently I have the Pioneer DVD (dig) and the Ipod (analog) sharing input "Aux 1". This requires me to have the ipod audio and vid plugged into the front of the AVR (not attractive). By doing this, I presently have everything in my system hooked up. However, it seems to allow no expansion, which I wouldn't expect from an AVR of this caliber. I'm sure it won't be long before I want to add something else in. Right now, I already want to occassionally hook up my HD Sony camcorder to the system, preferably via its HDMI output. How do I do that without unplugging one of my HDMI inputs? I'm open to some tips and suggestions here. Thanks, Marc
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post #327 of 2839 Old 12-20-2006, 02:41 PM
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It is my biggest warning for people considering this line of AVR. They should have had several more aux routes. I almost sent it back once I figured this out about it.
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post #328 of 2839 Old 12-20-2006, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

It is my biggest warning for people considering this line of AVR. They should have had several more aux routes. I almost sent it back once I figured this out about it.

I am becoming disappointed with the lack of analog inputs on the Marantz receivers. I am hoping a 9001 has more than the 8001! I have a CD player, turntable, CD recorder, and cassette deck to connect. The Yamaha 2700 has enough inputs for all of these in addition to the video inputs. Even with the 8500 and 9600, I'd have to use one of the video inputs for one of these..but it appears that they got rid of the "CD" input on the 8001..so it's one less now. So I'd have to use BOTH the "TV" and "DVD" audio inputs to use all my music sources.. God I hope the 9001 has more analog audio inputs...
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post #329 of 2839 Old 12-20-2006, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocam View Post


1) Firmware updates - how are these applied ? For the Yamaha there seems to be a very easy process of burning CD then feeding output optical - quite neat

I don't know about other manufacturers, but as Marantz owner I'm disappointed they hardly ever offer updates. The only upgrade they offered was to bring the 8200/9200 up to 9200/9300 level. Despite this, they always tout the "upgradability" of their receivers in their advertising.
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post #330 of 2839 Old 12-21-2006, 12:25 AM
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I'm sorry, but I cannot follow you guys.
My 7001 has 6 RCA audio, 3 optical and 3 coax digital inputs. That's 12 in total.

Brian81 for example only needs 4 RCA inputs.

TV should go through either optical or coax. Even if someone is only able to get analog audio from their TV, there are still two audio inputs left.
What am I missing?

I'm using a scaler which combines audio from my DVD and DVB-S receiver to one optical line. Even without the scaler:
TV & DVD optical, CD player, IPod and turntable via RCA.
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Marantz Sr 4001 Home Theater Receiver , Marantz Sr5001 Xm Ready Surround Sound Receiver
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