5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 101 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #3001 of 3041 Old 03-14-2011, 05:47 PM
Member
 
ROSSINFLORIDA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
so who here uses regular hdmi cables and who uses 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for
their blu ray player to receiver to hdtv?

i have not yet watched my first blu ray movie with lossless true dolby digital or
true dts so im wondering if there is a difference at all?


or what exactly do you need the 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for? i think i read you need
1.4 hdmi cables for 3d hdtv but i hate the thought of 3d hdtv so im just wondering
what other reasons you might need 1.3 or 1.4 cables

thanks again
ROSSINFLORIDA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #3002 of 3041 Old 03-17-2011, 12:11 PM
Senior Member
 
lightbox's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROSSINFLORIDA View Post

so who here uses regular hdmi cables and who uses 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for
their blu ray player to receiver to hdtv?

i have not yet watched my first blu ray movie with lossless true dolby digital or
true dts so im wondering if there is a difference at all?

or what exactly do you need the 1.3 or 1.4 hdmi cables for? i think i read you need
1.4 hdmi cables for 3d hdtv but i hate the thought of 3d hdtv so im just wondering
what other reasons you might need 1.3 or 1.4 cables

thanks again

I think virtually all HDMI cables made over the past two or three years have been 1.3 compliant, and probably all the new ones being manufactured today are 1.4 (although there's plenty of 1.3 cable inventory still on the market). An excellent explanation of the different HDMI versions is here on Wikipedia.

Basically, 1.3 was introduced to permit passage of "Deep Color" video and high resolution audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio).

1.4 enables passage of 3D at full HD resolution, as well as a few other features such as Audio Return Channel, and Ethernet over HDMI.
lightbox is offline  
post #3003 of 3041 Old 03-17-2011, 04:15 PM
Member
 
AV NUT19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Let me get this straight once and for all cause so many people say different things and u seem to know what your talking about. I will be as clear as I can. Lets say a movie specifies DTSMA and NOT PCM 5.1. My receiver does not decode that format however my blu ray player does. I can set my blu ray to PCM 7.1 surround, use an HDMI cable and receive DTSMA audio? My receiver will say PCM, but I will essentially be getting DTSMA lossless?
AV NUT19 is offline  
post #3004 of 3041 Old 03-17-2011, 05:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Kal Rubinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC + Connecticut
Posts: 28,428
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV NUT19 View Post

Let me get this straight once and for all cause so many people say different things and u seem to know what your talking about. I will be as clear as I can. Lets say a movie specifies DTSMA and NOT PCM 5.1. My receiver does not decode that format however my blu ray player does. I can set my blu ray to PCM 7.1 surround, use an HDMI cable and receive DTSMA audio? My receiver will say PCM, but I will essentially be getting DTSMA lossless?

Yes.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

Kal Rubinson is online now  
post #3005 of 3041 Old 03-17-2011, 07:50 PM
Member
 
Operajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
as I know virtually nothing, where would the marantz sr 8500 fit in?
and I currently own the yamaha rx-v463. how does that compare? am I better with one or the other?
Operajay is offline  
post #3006 of 3041 Old 04-18-2011, 03:21 AM
AVS Special Member
 
specuvestor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Some coded soundtracks (as opposed to PCM soundtracks) use a core+extension structure. I'll use 7.1 TrueHD as an example. The core of a TrueHD soundtrack is a lossless 2-channel mix, either downmixed from the multi-channel original or a dedicated stereo mix. In any case, it contains all the information in the 7.1 soundtrack, just in fewer channels.

The first extension packet contains the data that, when combined with the core, will give you a lossless 5.1 soundtrack. Again, it contains all the information in the original 7.1 mix, but as a 5.1 version. The second extension packet contains the information that, when combined with the core and first extension packet, yields a lossless copy of the original 7.1 soundtrack. And so on, with more extension packets and more channels.

As a short-hand, you can say that the first extension packet contains 3.1 channels. But what it really contains is the specific data needed to convert the 2-channel core into a 5.1 track. As you can guess, some of the data in the stereo mix will have to be tossed or re-arranged to other channels as part of this conversion to 5.1.

Likewise, Roger used a short-hand to say that the second extension packet contains the last 2 channels of the 7.1 mix. What it really contains is the specific data needed to convert 2 surround channels back to the original 4. It's just easier to refer to these packets in terms of channels: 2-channel core, 3.1-channel first extension packet, etc. But it's really extension data, not actual channels.

This structure makes backwards compatibility easier. If your TV has 2 speakers, then the player only has to decode the core (no need to decode all 7.1 channels and downmix on-the-fly to 2.0). You'll still hear the entire soundtrack. If you have a 5.1 set-up, then your receiver only has to decode the core and first extension packet (no need to decode all 7.1 channels and downmix on-the-fly to 5.1). You'll still hear the entire soundtrack.

Hi sorry to resurrect this thread but what happens if I want to downmix to 3.1 and only use LCR speakers with SW?

great explanation BTW
specuvestor is offline  
post #3007 of 3041 Old 02-14-2012, 05:50 PM
Senior Member
 
ReSultZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Not sure if this is the right forum 4 this but here we go...

With the below link/comparisons I notice that some of the receivers only support the new DTS and DD codecs, with the Denon 3312ci supporting older and newer codecs with a list of the older supported codecs below.. What does this mean and would it cause problems of any kind not having support the older codecs? Would the Denon benefit in any way by supporting older codecs?

DTS
DTS Neo:6
DTS-ES
DTS-HD
DTS-HD Master Audio
Dolby Digital (5.1)
Dolby Digital EX
Dolby Digital Plus
Dolby Pro Logic II
Dolby Pro Logic IIX
Dolby TrueHD




http://receivers.findthebest.com/com...amaha-RX-A1000
ReSultZ is online now  
post #3008 of 3041 Old 02-14-2012, 06:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BIslander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 8,519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 126
I am not sure what you are asking here. Receivers that decode the newer lossless codecs can also decode the older legacy versions such as DD 5.1 and DTS.
BIslander is online now  
post #3009 of 3041 Old 02-14-2012, 07:31 PM
Senior Member
 
ReSultZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't understand why in the link I posted...Certain older Codecs aren't checked???
ReSultZ is online now  
post #3010 of 3041 Old 02-14-2012, 09:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 367 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReSultZ View Post

I don't understand why in the link I posted...Certain older Codecs aren't checked???

The link to help you find the best receiver is apparently not the best place to get information about receivers.
Roger Dressler is offline  
post #3011 of 3041 Old 02-14-2012, 10:02 PM
Senior Member
 
ReSultZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Cnet also shows those receivers not having certain codecs and the Denon having them.
ReSultZ is online now  
post #3012 of 3041 Old 09-16-2012, 08:31 AM
Newbie
 
LilScrappy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 9
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Please help me i have Onkyo TX NR 818 hdmi (1.4) frorm PC-to in to Receiver and from out hdmi (1.3a) to TV
When i play LPCM 5.1 for input is reed in receiver PCM 2.0 (the movie is 5.1)
for DTS-HD MA and TrueHD is all good no problem !
i use Potplayer
Please help me to fix problem with LPCM 5.1
LilScrappy is offline  
post #3013 of 3041 Old 12-15-2012, 12:14 PM
Newbie
 
larsond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i just bought an onkyo 616 and going to run 7.2 my question is can i use my old hk avr65 reciever for any part of the new set up or not?
larsond is offline  
post #3014 of 3041 Old 02-23-2013, 07:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
eaamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: South mid Tn.
Posts: 533
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 18
dear moderator this old sticky from 2006 needs to be retired and seriously updated.......

my HT
eaamon is offline  
post #3015 of 3041 Old 02-23-2013, 08:07 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 1072
+ 1,000,000

This thread is ready to be let loose and drift away....

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #3016 of 3041 Old 02-23-2013, 12:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 87
OTOH it gives a good historical account of the evolution of the AVR over this 7 year period. At the expense of those it bothers no end, of course. redface.gif
Gary J is offline  
post #3017 of 3041 Old 02-23-2013, 08:06 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 1072
Historical curiosity IMO isn't sufficient justification for it to remain a sticky. For at least 3 years now essentially EVERY receiver on the market decodes full HD audio, it's basically now as standardized as Dolby Digital and DTS decoding were 10 years ago.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #3018 of 3041 Old 02-24-2013, 04:04 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 87
Well only opinions count for mod wannabes.
Gary J is offline  
post #3019 of 3041 Old 02-24-2013, 01:22 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 1072
Thanks for yet another valuable contribution.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #3020 of 3041 Old 02-24-2013, 01:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 87
On my own time too!
Gary J is offline  
post #3021 of 3041 Old 10-02-2013, 02:42 AM
Member
 
intgenx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 86
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
To Folks who are following this excellent thread...

could you pl. help me out with finding an A/V processor with HTPC like functionality....

At the following the thread

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1493123/need-a-hybrid-htpc-a-v-processor-xlr-usb-mediaplayer-browser
intgenx is offline  
post #3022 of 3041 Old 12-02-2013, 02:42 PM
Newbie
 
bluezeak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

This is a great sticky, and a great thread.  It would be awesome if the original post could be updated, but it was so long ago it's possible the poster is gone and it can't be updated.

bluezeak is offline  
post #3023 of 3041 Old 12-02-2013, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,595
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 38 Post(s)
Liked: 87
You're elected.
Gary J is offline  
post #3024 of 3041 Old 02-28-2014, 09:16 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mtbdudex's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 4,256
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 190
I vote to de-sticky this also,
IMO the Mods here (AVS) really are passive, should be looking at the stickies and making sure they are relevant.

Others, report this post to Mods, let's remember this thread fondly but realize it's time to sunset it for other more relevenat posts for sticky status.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaamon View Post

dear moderator this old sticky from 2006 needs to be retired and seriously updated.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

+ 1,000,000

This thread is ready to be let loose and drift away....
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Historical curiosity IMO isn't sufficient justification for it to remain a sticky. For at least 3 years now essentially EVERY receiver on the market decodes full HD audio, it's basically now as standardized as Dolby Digital and DTS decoding were 10 years ago.

Click on the red flag to report this post, select reason other, ask Mod to de-sticky:
mtbdudex is offline  
post #3025 of 3041 Old 02-28-2014, 09:52 AM
Super Moderator
 
DrDon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 12,621
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 251
I'm assuming someone has already PM'd the OP, who's still very much active. If not, I suggest you do so. If he doesn't want to fool with it, but gives permission for an update, one of you can copy the original post, edit it and PM it to me. I can replace the original post with the edited version. But since it's the OP's thread, let's start there.

Also, since stickies don't really "stick" anymore, we tend to leave them so long as they're active and still contain useful information.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
DrDon is online now  
post #3026 of 3041 Old 02-28-2014, 11:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,111
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 1072
The first post is still written in the context of 6+ years ago. If we don't want to unsticky, it's definitely necessary to update because it's just an anachronism otherwise. The legacy info may still be useful for people with older units, but the context needs to updated to reflect the realities of the current landscape.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is online now  
post #3027 of 3041 Old 03-05-2014, 05:34 AM
Senior Member
 
Farley1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Georgia, United States
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 160

As a new member trying to figure things out I will say that I was disappointed to find this thread as the sticky. Future-proofing...and the OP is so old. So I jumped to the last page to see what was currently being discussed, maybe see if there was a more recent informative post to go to instead of the OP...it seems not.

 

So is there such a thing as worrying about future-proofing an AVR today? If so, where do I go to read about that? 


Samsung PN60F5300, Sony PS3

Denon AVR-X1000

SVS PB-2000

Front-Center-Surround, Pioneer: FS52-C22-FS51

Farley1 is offline  
post #3028 of 3041 Old 03-05-2014, 11:27 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 176 Post(s)
Liked: 150
The only thing that will make receivers future-proof is the end of the world.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #3029 of 3041 Old 03-05-2014, 11:31 AM
Senior Member
 
Farley1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Georgia, United States
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

The only thing that will make receivers future-proof is the end of the world.

Then I am sorry I wasted my time trying to learn something from this sticky.


Samsung PN60F5300, Sony PS3

Denon AVR-X1000

SVS PB-2000

Front-Center-Surround, Pioneer: FS52-C22-FS51

Farley1 is offline  
post #3030 of 3041 Old 03-05-2014, 11:33 AM
Senior Member
 
weekendtoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 50
^ That and 7 analog in which most mid-level and lower receivers are dropping...

I reject your reality and substitute my own.

weekendtoy is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off