5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Not at all. You can certainly have bass management that doesn't work with PCM over HDMI. A simple test would be to use level trimming, not bass management. In fact, you can even do level trimming on the remote. Use the same disc, set the player to output PCM over HDMI, make sure the Panasonic is seeing a 5.1 PCM signal (DD/DTS indicator lights are not lit, and all 5 channel indicators are lit), and then try changing the volume of, say, the center channel, and see if it gets louder. If the Panasonic can do that, it can do bass management and delays.
...

Using Tears of the Sun Blu-ray disc, I made certain that English PCM 5.1 Uncompressed was selected as the soundtrack, confirmed by monitoring the output of the BD10 player using OSD. Without the assistance of any surround sound processing by the XR700 (e. g., Dolby Pro Logic IIx), the PCM stream plays as two channel L-R stereo. I can move the sound between the left front and the right front speakers using the balance control on the XR700 itself. And of course these speakers are subject to volume control.

As far as I can determine, setting individual speaker levels is done using internal test tones as per page 31 of the XR700 Manual, i.e., not while playing sources - with the exception of the subwoofer for which levels can be adjusted while playing sources.

Hope this helps.

Dana

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post #452 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

Using Tears of the Sun Blu-ray disc, I made certain that English PCM 5.1 Uncompressed was selected as the soundtrack, confirmed by monitoring the output of the BD10 player using OSD. Without the assistance of any surround sound processing by the XR700 (e. g., Dolby Pro Logic IIx), the PCM stream plays as two channel L-R stereo. I can move the sound between the left front and the right front speakers using the balance control on the XR700 itself. And of course these speakers are subject to volume control.

As far as I can determine, setting individual speaker levels is done using internal test tones as per page 31 of the XR700 Manual, i.e., not while playing sources - with the exception of the subwoofer for which levels can be adjusted while playing sources.

Hope this helps.

Dana

WHAT!!!! Its only playing stereo PCM?????? I think by hitting the surround button you turned off the surround speakers and converted everything to stereo.... at least I hope so!
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post #453 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by shamus1099 View Post

WHAT!!!! Its only playing stereo PCM?????? I think by hitting the surround button you turned off the surround speakers and converted everything to stereo.... at least I hope so!

I've been looking at some other midrange HDMI receivers (Sony STRDG1000, Onkyo TXSR674, Denon 2307CI), and if the XR700 is for some reason converting a 5.1 PCM signal to 2.0, then that's a dealbreaker.

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post #454 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

I've been looking at some other midrange HDMI receivers (Sony STRDG1000, Onkyo TXSR674, Denon 2307CI), and if the XR700 is for some reason converting a 5.1 PCM signal to 2.0, then that's a dealbreaker.


JBlacklow,
do you know how the onkyo and denon you mentioned handle PCM, do they allow for trim adjustments?
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post #455 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by shamus1099 View Post

WHAT!!!! Its only playing stereo PCM?????? I think by hitting the surround button you turned off the surround speakers and converted everything to stereo.... at least I hope so!

Look, guys. I'm doing the best I can to help but you'll have to cut me some slack here. I'm not a professional tester and I'm getting some criticism that I don't need.

The BD10 player is set to output two channel based on these instructions on page 22 of the BD10 player manual.

"You can set the unit to output the best possible sound for your speakers. Select '2 Channel' if the speaker settings can be set on the connected equipment."

If I set the BD10 player output to multi-channel, then I'll have to set speaker sizes, etc. on the player to neutralize any influence those settings may have.

Your call. I'm going to watch football this afternoon.

Dana

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post #456 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbonbi View Post

Using Tears of the Sun Blu-ray disc, I made certain that English PCM 5.1 Uncompressed was selected as the soundtrack, confirmed by monitoring the output of the BD10 player using OSD. Without the assistance of any surround sound processing by the XR700 (e. g., Dolby Pro Logic IIx), the PCM stream plays as two channel L-R stereo. I can move the sound between the left front and the right front speakers using the balance control on the XR700 itself. And of course these speakers are subject to volume control.

Then either your setup is wrong, or there's something seriously wrong with the BD10 player or XR700 receiver. Doesn't look like we can rely on your equipment to do the testing here, since all you can get is stereo PCM. Thanks for your hard work. We'll wait until someone who has more experience gets his or her hands on the receiver. Enjoy the game.

Oh, and about level trimming, I'm not talking about whether or not you can do it while the movie is playing. I'm talking about whether or not the level trimming processing is done on PCM streams (whether or not the level trimming takes affect). No worries, though.
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post #457 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jedi.night View Post

JBlacklow,
do you know how the onkyo and denon you mentioned handle PCM, do they allow for trim adjustments?

The Denon can, but I'm not sure on the Onkyo. It might drop out of the running, since it seems that it won't do more than 5.1 PCM over HDMI, nor is it HDMI 1.2 (which may not make a difference if you're using a PS3 for SACD). As far as I can tell, the other three all explicitly state via manuals or reps that they accept 7.1 PCM over HDMI and will allow HDMI processing. That last part might only apply to the Sony and Denon, if Dana's results bear out.

ETA: I apologize if we're starting to sound critical of you, Dana. I appreciate all the testing you're doing, and the downfall of electronic communication is the loss of subtelty and nuance.

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post #458 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 09:59 AM
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I can confirm that a Denon 4306 does indeed to 5.1 PCM over HDMI - source was a 3910.

Disengaged the Denon link 3rd that I normally use, and then I could choose to decode DTS & Dolby from within the player and send it PCM over HDMI.

4306 reports MULTI CH IN and the leds indicate 5.1. Watched part of a DTS movie this way, and its in no way sounding different than with decoding in the reciever.

So, 4306 (or maybe 3806) is a safe bet, surely for 5.1 PCM. The 3910's internals don't decode DTS-ES or Dolby EX, so I couldn't check for 7.1 on the 4306.

4306 and 3910 are both HDMI 1.1 compliant devices.

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post #459 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Annotation:

There are currently no 7.1 channel sources of audio over HDMI. Receiver manuals are notoriously vague on HDMI audio support. Therefore, there are very few confirmed level 6 receivers. Most level 5 receivers are rumored to be level 6 receivers. Contacting the manufacturer is the best way to confirm level 6 receivers. For some reason or another, the Panasonic XR series don't allow processing of PCM over HDMI (unconfirmed). Hopefully this is an error in the manual, or Panasonic can get it's act together with it's next receiver.

Currently there are no movies with 7.1 but this is a different story for video games, if you must test a reciever then use a Playstation 3 connected to the reciever using HDMI and play the game Resistance:Fall of Man. This game supports 7.1 as it shows up as such on my friends Yamaha RX-V2700.
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post #460 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post

Currently there are no movies with 7.1 but this is a different story for video games, if you must test a reciever then use a Playstation 3 connected to the reciever using HDMI and play the game Resistance:Fall of Man. This game supports 7.1 as it shows up as such on my friends Yamaha RX-V2700.

^^ Does this mean that the 2700 is indeed level 6?

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #461 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 11:13 AM
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It would seems so, but when you bring up the audio input information it only tells you there is a LFE signal, yet on the front display it shows a 6.1 input with one surround back channel. The small lines that are supposed to show up when multiple surround back channels are being input do not light up. The PS3 itself does not support 6.1 output in PCM so this is rather conflicting.
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post #462 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post

It would seems so, but when you bring up the audio input information it only tells you there is a LFE signal, yet on the front display it shows a 6.1 input with one surround back channel. The small lines that are supposed to show up when multiple surround back channels are being input do not light up.

Thanks for the information.

Hopefully either here or in the 1700/2700 thread we can get some other owners to chime in on all of this.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #463 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

I've been looking at some other midrange HDMI receivers (Sony STRDG1000, Onkyo TXSR674, Denon 2307CI), and if the XR700 is for some reason converting a 5.1 PCM signal to 2.0, then that's a dealbreaker.

Im willing to bet it can. This was made to go with the Panny BD player.... at least I hope so!
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post #464 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 11:55 AM
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Dana,
Welcome to the wonderful world of equipment reviewing and reporting!

If the player does speaker configuration related adjustments to the multi-channel PCM prior to sending it to the receiver, it is easy to set things so that none of that will get in your way, and so that you can ACTUALLY manage your speaker configuration in the receiver as you want. Note, some players with multi-channel analog audio outputs may only do such stuff on their analog outputs, in which case none of these settings will alter the digital output. But it doesn't hurt to set them anyway.

* Tell the player that you have a full set of speakers, including a subwoofer, whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your speakers, other than the subwoofer, are "large" full frequency range speakers, whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your surround speakers are "direct" rather than "dipole", whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your speakers are at the same distance from the listening position -- typically there will be a default distance, but it really doesn't matter what distance you use so long as they are all the same -- again whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your speakers play at the same volume. I.e., if there is a relative volume level setting for the different speakers, set all speakers the same. Typically the default setting of 0db (neither louder nor softer than "normal") is best here.

* Turn off any audio enhancement features in the player that appear related to speaker configuration, or corrections for the listening room's impact on the sound you hear. I.e., set the player to do as little as possible of this stuff. Odds are there will be no such options in your player, but turn them off if there are.

* If despite setting your main speakers to "large" the player wants you to set a "cross-over" frequency for controlling the subwoofer, set it to as large a value as possible, or even better, disable it if you have that option.

NOTE: If instead of having a setting for whether your main speakers are "large" or "small" your player just has a cross-over setting that can't be disabled, set it to 80Hz. That's not ideal, but it is the best you can do.

With these settings, even if the player tries to do speaker configuration related stuff, there is nothing for it to do. No modifications to the PCM are necessary. So the PCM should come through unaltered to your receiver. Be sure your TRUE speaker configuration information is set up in the receiver.

------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The question people are trying to get an answer to here is whether or not this specific receiver actually IMPLEMENTS such "processing" of the incoming PCM -- including both the general area of speaker configuration processing (i.e., time alignment, level balancing, bass management, content steering), and more specialized surround sound "enhancement" processing to alter the default surround sound coming in on the multi-channel PCM in various ways according to user preference (i.e., THX post processing). If the receiver can't do even speaker configuration management on the incoming, multi-channel, high res PCM, then it is not really an appropriate receiver for this use.

The only way to tell whether the receiver can do this stuff is to set the player to send multi-channel, high res PCM to the receiver and then to modify the receiver's configuration setting in some significant way to see if it now sounds differently. For example, temporarily tell the receiver you have no Center speaker and see if the movie dialog -- which is normally most prominent only in the Center channel -- gets steered by the receiver (i.e., mixed into) the content directed to the Left Front and Right Front speakers. If things are working right your center speaker should go silent but dialog should still sound almost the same as before. If dialog is muffled or goes away then your receiver is not steering the center channel content and thus is likely not processing any of the incoming PCM.

Receivers regularly process 2 channel, normal resolution PCM when playing, say, CDs via an optical, coax, or HDMI digital audio connection. Processing PCM has been around forever. Your receiver undoubtedly does such 2 channel, normal resolution, PCM processing correctly. The question is whether this receiver also has the bandwidth and processing power to do it on the multi-channel high res PCM coming in from an HD-DVD or Blue Ray player, and whether it actually implements that.
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post #465 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 11:59 AM
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Denon 4306 - When doing the DTS decoded in 5.1 PCM from the 3910, all bass management of the 3910 is greyed out. So 5.1 PCM is sent in 'pure' from to the 4306. There I can use audissey, which means the receiver processes the 5.1 in all possible domains (distance, level, bass management, ...)

On the "there is no 7.1" subject - we do have discrete 6.1 sources, like DTS-ES.

Yves
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post #466 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Dana,
Welcome to the wonderful world of equipment reviewing and reporting!
...
--Bob

Bob,

I appreciate your lengthy and constructive response. But, Lindahl has relieved me of further testing.

"We'll wait until someone who has more experience gets his or her hands on the receiver."

Dana

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post #467 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Yves Smolders View Post

Denon 4306 - When doing the DTS decoded in 5.1 PCM from the 3910, all bass management of the 3910 is greyed out. So 5.1 PCM is sent in 'pure' from to the 4306. There I can use audissey, which means the receiver processes the 5.1 in all possible domains (distance, level, bass management, ...)

On the "there is no 7.1" subject - we do have discrete 6.1 sources, like DTS-ES.

There are no movies, be it HD DVD or Blu Ray that currently have discrete 7.1 audio, we've had 6.1 for quite some time but only in lossy formats. Currently HD DVD and Blu Ray support 5.1 but this will change as players begin to support this and 7.1 sources begin to be released.
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post #468 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 12:39 PM
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Dana,
I don't think you can get out of it that easily. (grin!) Whether or not you do the testing, you will likely have to do a setup such as I described to get your system working properly.

You definitely do NOT want to be receiving only 2 channel audio from the player.
--Bob

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post #469 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Dana,
I don't think you can get out of it that easily. (grin!) Whether or not you do the testing, you will likely have to do a setup such as I described to get your system working properly.

You definitely do NOT want to be receiving only 2 channel audio from the player.
--Bob

Bob,

Yes, I agree. I will do as you say for my personal enjoyment.

Dana

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post #470 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Dana,
Welcome to the wonderful world of equipment reviewing and reporting!

If the player does speaker configuration related adjustments to the multi-channel PCM prior to sending it to the receiver, it is easy to set things so that none of that will get in your way, and so that you can ACTUALLY manage your speaker configuration in the receiver as you want. Note, some players with multi-channel analog audio outputs may only do such stuff on their analog outputs, in which case none of these settings will alter the digital output. But it doesn't hurt to set them anyway.

* Tell the player that you have a full set of speakers, including a subwoofer, whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your speakers, other than the subwoofer, are "large" full frequency range speakers, whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your surround speakers are "direct" rather than "dipole", whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your speakers are at the same distance from the listening position -- typically there will be a default distance, but it really doesn't matter what distance you use so long as they are all the same -- again whether or not that is true.

* Tell the player that all of your speakers play at the same volume. I.e., if there is a relative volume level setting for the different speakers, set all speakers the same. Typically the default setting of 0db (neither louder nor softer than "normal") is best here.

* Turn off any audio enhancement features in the player that appear related to speaker configuration, or corrections for the listening room's impact on the sound you hear. I.e., set the player to do as little as possible of this stuff. Odds are there will be no such options in your player, but turn them off if there are.

* If despite setting your main speakers to "large" the player wants you to set a "cross-over" frequency for controlling the subwoofer, set it to as large a value as possible, or even better, disable it if you have that option.

NOTE: If instead of having a setting for whether your main speakers are "large" or "small" your player just has a cross-over setting that can't be disabled, set it to 80Hz. That's not ideal, but it is the best you can do.

With these settings, even if the player tries to do speaker configuration related stuff, there is nothing for it to do. No modifications to the PCM are necessary. So the PCM should come through unaltered to your receiver. Be sure your TRUE speaker configuration information is set up in the receiver.

------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The question people are trying to get an answer to here is whether or not this specific receiver actually IMPLEMENTS such "processing" of the incoming PCM -- including both the general area of speaker configuration processing (i.e., time alignment, level balancing, bass management, content steering), and more specialized surround sound "enhancement" processing to alter the default surround sound coming in on the multi-channel PCM in various ways according to user preference (i.e., THX post processing). If the receiver can't do even speaker configuration management on the incoming, multi-channel, high res PCM, then it is not really an appropriate receiver for this use.

The only way to tell whether the receiver can do this stuff is to set the player to send multi-channel, high res PCM to the receiver and then to modify the receiver's configuration setting in some significant way to see if it now sounds differently. For example, temporarily tell the receiver you have no Center speaker and see if the movie dialog -- which is normally most prominent only in the Center channel -- gets steered by the receiver (i.e., mixed into) the content directed to the Left Front and Right Front speakers. If things are working right your center speaker should go silent but dialog should still sound almost the same as before. If dialog is muffled or goes away then your receiver is not steering the center channel content and thus is likely not processing any of the incoming PCM.

Receivers regularly process 2 channel, normal resolution PCM when playing, say, CDs via an optical, coax, or HDMI digital audio connection. Processing PCM has been around forever. Your receiver undoubtedly does such 2 channel, normal resolution, PCM processing correctly. The question is whether this receiver also has the bandwidth and processing power to do it on the multi-channel high res PCM coming in from an HD-DVD or Blue Ray player, and whether it actually implements that.
--Bob

Great post!

I wonder how PS3's are going to fit into this equation that you spelled out here.

There are no settings in the PS3's audio menus. It's straight up HDMI and hopefully it's the kind of situation where you're completely at the mercy of your receiver and you can just set that receiver the way you want to.

I'm hoping. That's what I'm counting on anyways with whatever I end up buying.

Great ISF Job by Chad B.
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post #471 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Currently the cheapest decently-future-proof receiver on the market is, by far, the Panasonic XR57. The only confirmed fully future-proof receivers on the market are the Yamaha RX-V1700 and higher and Pioneer Elite VSX81 and higher. (see annotation for more possibilities).

The above quote is from the 1st post. Is the above statement up to date, or should the Denon's and Onkyo's now be in this group? (I don't have the time to read all of this lengthy thread.) I've got a brand new custom installed 7.1 speaker setup to go with my new HDTV, and I want a receiver that is compatible with 7.1 channel sound and the new audio formats. Is there someplace in this thread that basically has all of the current receivers that fit this description?
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post #472 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 08:02 PM
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...and aren't the some Sony's out right now that will do all this too (STR-DA5200ES?)
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post #473 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjensen View Post

The above quote is from the 1st post. Is the above statement up to date, or should the Denon's and Onkyo's now be in this group? (I don't have the time to read all of this lengthy thread.)

Good catch. The Onkyos are not in that group since they only support 5.1 PCM, but I've added the Denons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterjensen View Post

I've got a brand new custom installed 7.1 speaker setup to go with my new HDTV, and I want a receiver that is compatible with 7.1 channel sound and the new audio formats. Is there someplace in this thread that basically has all of the current receivers that fit this description?

The first post tries to do this.
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post #474 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Good catch. The Onkyos are not in that group since they only support 5.1 PCM, but I've added the Denons.

Thanks for the update Lindahl So the Sony's are out too? I thought models like the STR-DA5200ES were made specifically to accommodate future BD audio formats? This stuff is confusing the heck out of me. In a nutshell, are you saying (in the first post) that the receivers you've listed will output the new audio formats in 7.1 channel sound from HDMI if they are fed that from a 7.1 HDMI future audio format source?
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post #475 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 10:25 PM
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Haha I think maybe I should have checked this forum before I went out to Magnolia Hi-Fi with my PS3 to check out my options.

I'm trying to upgrade my receiver so I can work with DTS-HD (Lossless).

I skin read though this thread, too tired to dig into everything which I'll get to probably tomorrow. But here is what I have understood after being at Magnolia Hi-Fi testing out some of their equipments ( Pioneer Elites and Denon and some other receivers)

If you have a player which can decode DTS-HD (Lossless) into PCM which can be transmitted through HDMI 1.1 1.2 1.2a, you only need a receiver that supports PCM (Don't know if LPCM is the same thing)
If you have a player which does NOT decode DTS-HD (Lossless) into PCM, then you will need HDMI 1.3 which will be able to carry over the signal to a receiver that can decode DTS-HD (Lossless)

Humm so here is my questions:
Playstation 3 Manual states that *** This system does not support output from the DTS-HD 7.1 Ch. DTS-HD 7.1 Ch audio is output from a 5.1 or lower channel. What does that mean??

I'm going back to the store to try out more receivers soon :-D
[indent] What's really significant about HDMI 1.3 in the short term is that it will allow the high- resolution audio formats from Dolby and DTS to be transmitted in their native, digital form from HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc players to AVRs and surround processors. Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and Master Audio can all be used on HD DVD and Blu-ray.
HDMI 1.3
Released 22 June 2006.[1] [2]
Increases single-link bandwidth to 340 Mhz (10.2 Gbps)
Supports 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit (RGB or YCbCr) color depths or over one billion colors, up from 24-bit in previous versions.
Supports xvYCC color standard.
Incorporates automatic audio syncing (lip sync) capability.
Supports output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams for external decoding by AV receivers.[3] TrueHD and DTS-HD are lossless audio codec formats used on HD DVDs and Blu-ray Discs. If the disk player can decode these streams into uncompressed audio, then HDMI 1.3 is not necessary, as all versions of HDMI can transport uncompressed audio.
Availability of a new mini connector for devices such as camcorders.[4]

PS3 will decode TrueHD and pass it through as LPCM, but it will not decode DTS-HD. If you set your audio output to "Bitstream" though, once you replace your receiver with a TrueHD and DTS-HD compatible HDMI 1.3 receiver, the TrueHD and DTS-HD will pass through digitally to the receiver thanks to PS3's HDMI 1.3 port where your receiver will gloriously decode it for you.

So anyways these are few things that I found online that shined some light on what I'm trying to do. But here's a weird question:
If HDMI 1.2 can support 7ch PMC which is Lossless and uncompressed, how is it the DTS-HD data will require that much more bandwidth that it'll require HDMI 1.3?

Word is the first HDMI 1.3 receiver is coming out early next year for about 1500. Whether if it will decode DTS-HD I have no clue. HUmmMMmmmmm

PLEASE CORRECT ME IF ANYTHING ABOVE IS INCORRECT, BECAUSE I'm CONFUSED AS HELL RIGHT NOW!
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post #476 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 10:46 PM
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OH does anyone know if the SONY BD player that just came out has HDMI 1.3?
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post #477 of 3041 Old 12-03-2006, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strangerazn View Post

If HDMI 1.2 can support 7ch PMC which is Lossless and uncompressed, how is it the DTS-HD data will require that much more bandwidth that it'll require HDMI 1.3?

That question starts from a false premise. Using DTS-HD to compress a PCM soundtrack means you end up with less data, requiring less bandwidth for transmission.

Sanjay

Sanjay
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post #478 of 3041 Old 12-04-2006, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

That question starts from a false premise. Using DTS-HD to compress a PCM soundtrack means you end up with less data, requiring less bandwidth for transmission.

Sanjay

that's it. HDS-HD data/sec < PCM so why do we need 1.3 ???
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post #479 of 3041 Old 12-04-2006, 12:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strangerazn View Post

that's it. HDS-HD data/sec < PCM so why do we need 1.3 ???

Good question... Ive always wondered that.
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post #480 of 3041 Old 12-04-2006, 01:17 AM
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Because it's a new format. The standards people needed to define how it was carried across the link.

In effect this amounts to not much more than something like "DTS-HD is carried in audio packets with identifier code XXX; capability is signalled by YYYY; maximum rate is ZZZZ; capability is optional for all sinks". This information was specified in version 1.3 of the HDMI standard.

But the point is not that you're "waiting for HDMI 1.3". You're waiting for a receiver that has a DTS-HD decoder!!! When those receivers come along, they will be using the transmission method defined in HDMI 1.3.

All this talk and worrying about version numbers doesn't make sense, you lot. You don't want a "HDMI 1.2 receiver", you want a receiver that accepts DSD over HDMI. You don't want a "HDMI 1.3 player", you want a player that can output a DTS-HD bitstream.

There are HDMI 1.2a bits of kit out there that don't offer any extra facilities beyond HDMI 1.1 - they just conform to all the more stringent requirements of 1.2a.

"Having HDMI 1.3" is not a very meaningful concept. A piece of kit might conform to the version 1.3 of the HDMI spec, but that doesn't necessarily mean it does anything beyond your HDMI 1.1 kit from last year.
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