5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 3041 Old 10-19-2006, 10:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tome View Post

Unless he has a Series3 Tivo or other DVR that outputs HDMI, then he would need a third....assuming he wants one switching point. I know I do - want to feed a single hdmi to the tv and leave it on one source, and switch at the recvr.

If you really want to spend the $250 to run a single wire to your TV, I guess. But if you're doing it for remote convenience, a much better idea is to buy a universal remote. You gain a lot more convenience, it's more flexible, it's got a better 'wow' factor, it will last you a lot longer, and it's cheaper too - what's not to love! If you're technically adept and aren't scared of a little programming, I recommend looking at the professional Universal Remote or Philips Pronto lines. But, if you want to save money or you're not as technically inclined, go with the Logitech Harmony series. All are computer programmable, which will make setup a breeze (comparatively). Just in case you ask, I use the URC MX-850, but it's probably a bit more than you want to spend.

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Originally Posted by tome View Post

OOC, which VP do you have?

Lumagen HDQ

We're well outside the topic now... so... getting back on topic:

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Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

checked out the manual of Onkyo 674. There is only one place where it is mentioned. Under "Supported Audio Formats" of HDMI on page 31, it says "Multichannel linear PCM (5.1 ch, 32-96 kHz, 16/20/24 bit)." But I don't think that this is a "clear" indication that it can output only 5.1 audio out of 7.1 HDMI PCM signals.

First, don't you think they'd shout out such an important feature if they had it? The level 6 receivers that don't say they have it, don't say anything about PCM over HDMI to begin with. Even the Panasonic XR700 touts the 7.1 PCM HDMI support in its very small spec list on the US Panasonic Blue-Ray page.

Second, I don't know how much clearer the manual can be... "We don't support 7.1 linear PCM."? I've never seen a receiver manual state what it can't do, unless it's one of those matrix displays for surround formats with x's and o's. If they did, manuals would have a lot more pages.

It sounds like you really want the receiver (for monetary reasons?). If you want to take the chance, go right ahead, but it's pretty obvious to me that it won't do what you want it to do. I'd at least call the manufacturer first.

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Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

Nevertheless, I think the reason why they can produce low cost AVR with correct implementation of many different processings is that they use sort of standardized chipsets that can assure the correct implementation.

I highly doubt there are any standardized processing chips that handle 7.1 PCM yet. It's a very new development. Not even the HD-DVD and Blue-Ray players output 7.1 PCM, yet. Even the next generation Toshiba player won't have 7.1 output. Granted, 7.1 analog inputs have been around for a little while, but those are trivial to route directly to the amplifier stage. The only receivers that allow processing on analong inputs are high-end processors that have roll-your-own implementations (except HK, which gets trickle-down features from the premium Lexicon line).

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Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

I doubt that Denon, Onkyo, HK, and Marantz output only the 5.1 part of 7.1 PCM audio fed via HDMI.

Do you want to buy a receiver, only to find out it doesn't have the features you thought it had? You better make sure, first.

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Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

I think this matter should be confirmed by using the actual equipments, not the manuals.

I agree, but therein lies the dilemma. There are no 7.1 PCM over HDMI sources currently on the market to test. So, all you can do is look at the manual and call the manufacturer. The first 7.1 PCM over HDMI source will be the Panasonic Blue-Ray player. I don't know the release date off-hand (if there even is one yet), but it's still a ways out.

Because of this, anyone who's buying a receiver at this point in time will have a difficult time finding one that's future-proofed for their needs. This is why I wrote the guide - I spent quite a bit of time doing the research. Don't take this as combative, I'm just trying to save everyone a bit of time .
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post #32 of 3041 Old 10-19-2006, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

1.2 doesn't change support for new audio formats, but I removed the '1.1' reference, since it was unnecessarily specific.

Definition of future proof is flexible based on what kind of handling you want for PCM formats. Providing we don't change physical interfaces and need more channels, any receiver that has full capabilities for PCM over HDMI can handle any future audio formats in, say, the next 5-10 years.

Well, keep in mind that TODAY, Dolby Digital Plus and True HD support up to 14 channels...

Main screen turn on. All your base are belong to us.
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post #33 of 3041 Old 10-20-2006, 01:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clepto View Post

Well, keep in mind that TODAY, Dolby Digital Plus and True HD support up to 14 channels...

Right. That'll be fun to explain to the wife. Hunny, where do you think we should put the other 6 speakers? At least I have a dedicated room, but I don't think I could pull this one off in the living room . I don't expect to see beyond 8 channels mixed by studios for a good few years, but point taken.
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post #34 of 3041 Old 10-20-2006, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

If you really want to spend the $250 to run a single wire to your TV, I guess. But if you're doing it for remote convenience, a much better idea is to buy a universal remote. You gain a lot more convenience, it's more flexible, it's got a better 'wow' factor, it will last you a lot longer, and it's cheaper too - what's not to love! If you're technically adept and aren't scared of a little programming, I recommend looking at the professional Universal Remote or Philips Pronto lines. But, if you want to save money or you're not as technically inclined, go with the Logitech Harmony series. All are computer programmable, which will make setup a breeze (comparatively). Just in case you ask, I use the URC MX-850, but it's probably a bit more than you want to spend.

I have two reasons to drive the display from a single feed:
I either fish 1 cable, or N cables for 4-5 feet through a wall from the TV to a light box above that serves as a raceway to my closet. I can do it, but it will not be fun and will be a large bundle of 20 ft long cables running back to the closet.

I also want to do it for remote convenience. More precisely, remote convenience for my wife and the occasional house guests. However, re: Universal Remotes....

I am not at all adverse to programming. I am adverse to MS-only devices though - I am a Mac geek. However, I have played with the Pronto and dislike it very much. Like the Pronto, many previous generation URC have very few buttons and rely on the screen too much. Personally I like/need tactile feedback of real buttons in a remote I can use with one hand. I hated having to read the screen to figure out what to push next. Too much staring a the remote itself.

The Harmony looks interesting, it has more real buttons. I have not see the MX-850 before, it too looks like a possibilty. I will have to investigate it further....

Thanks,
-Tom
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post #35 of 3041 Old 10-20-2006, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

It sounds like you really want the receiver (for monetary reasons?). If you want to take the chance, go right ahead, but it's pretty obvious to me that it won't do what you want it to do. I'd at least call the manufacturer first.

No, I don't want the Onkyo receiver. Lindahl, I'm not finding fault with your work. In fact I appreciate your work. I just want to have accurate information.

I think someone with better knowledge than ours about hardware implementation of HDMI chip in AVR should step in. As far as I know, for a receiver that can process 7.1 sources (DD EX, DP IIx, DTS ES), there should be no hardware limitations that force the receiver to discard 2 surround back channels from 7.1 PCM over HDMI.

And I'm not 100% sure but the Oppo 970 has internal DD EX decoder and can send the resulting audio in 7.1 PCM over HDMI. So someone with the Oppo may be able to test it.

- Jay
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post #36 of 3041 Old 10-20-2006, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

I don't expect to see beyond 8 channels mixed by studios for a good few years, but point taken.

Some of the new HD audio codecs can go up to 16 and 32 channels but HD-DVD and Blu-ray are limited to 8 channels maximum. So it would literally take the creation of a new delivery medium to go beyond 8 channels. Until such time as that happens, I think you're safe in labeling 7.1-channel capability over HDMI as future-proof (at least for the next 5-10 years).

BTW, add me to the list of people that think this thread should be stickied; especially if it is updated as new or revised information comes out.

Sanjay

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post #37 of 3041 Old 10-21-2006, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tome View Post


The Harmony looks interesting, it has more real buttons. I have not see the MX-850 before, it too looks like a possibilty. I will have to investigate it further....

If you do decide to go with any remotes made by URC, such as their MX-850. Then make sure you buy it from a reputable and authorized dealer. Or you may be left holding the bag when it comes to future software support and firmware upgrades, due to the fact that with what URC did, you could end up the software that no longer has a functioning "Live Update" option anymore. All because of the way that URC has now totally changed the way that you must go about obtaining the newer software, URC now only lets you D/L the crippled versions direct from them, And for the newer full version software that still has a fully functional "Live Update" option, you must either have it supplied with a CD included with sale of the remote, or for the dealer to email you the new file, or provide a place for yo to download it. If you do any research about the MX-850, both here and at remotecentral.com. You will probably come across quite a few threads about URC's new software and their new support policy changes
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post #38 of 3041 Old 10-21-2006, 03:01 AM
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I'll vote for a stickie too

Boo!
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post #39 of 3041 Old 10-21-2006, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

HD-DVD and Blu-ray are limited to 8 channels maximum. So it would literally take the creation of a new delivery medium to go beyond 8 channels.

Do you happen to have a reference for this? I believe you, but it'd be nice to have a link for quoting in the future. Thanks.
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post #40 of 3041 Old 10-21-2006, 07:07 AM
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Not sure, if you are looking for something like this or not, but these sites have some info about HD-DVD (including brief tech specs)

It says that
Quote:


HD DVD can be mastered with up to 7.1 channel surround sound using the linear (uncompressed) PCM, Dolby Digital and DTS formats also used on DVDs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD
http://www.thelookandsoundofperfect.com/

Blu-Ray
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/


Quote:


Blu_Ray
For audio, BD-ROM players are required to support Dolby Digital AC-3, DTS, and linear PCM (up to 7.1 channels). Dolby Digital Plus, and lossless formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD are player optional. BD-ROM titles must use one of mandatory audiotracks for the primary soundtrack (linear PCM 5.1, Dolby Digital 5.1 or DTS 5.1.). A secondary audiotrack, if present, may use any of the mandatory or optional codecs.[8] For lossless audio in movies in the PCM, Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD formats, Blu-ray Discs support encoding in up to 24-bit/192 kHz for up to six channels, or up to eight channels of up to 24-bit/96 kHz encoding.[9] For reference, even new big-budget Hollywood films are mastered in only 24-bit/48 kHz, with 16-bit/48 kHz being common for ordinary films.

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post #41 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

Do you happen to have a reference for this?

The 8-channel limitation has been common knowledge for a while.

In addition to the links that axs posted, you can go to the Dolby site and look up their audio codec technologies for HD-DVD and Blu-ray. Under the Dolby Digital Plus list of features you will find the following disclaimer:
Quote:


Dolby Digital Plus can support more than eight audio channels. HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc standards currently limit their maximum number of audio channels to eight.

You'll see the same disclaimer for Dolby TrueHD, explaining that the codec can support more channels but the delivery media is limited to 8.

Another example is the FAQ at the Blu-ray.com site, which explains the audio codecs that Blu-ray supports:
Quote:


Linear PCM (LPCM) - offers up to 8 channels of uncompressed audio.
Dolby Digital (DD) - format used for DVDs also known as AC3, offers 5.1-channel surround sound.
Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) - extension of DD, offers increased bitrates and 7.1-channel surround sound.
Dolby TrueHD - extension of MLP Lossless, offers lossless encoding of up to 8 channels of audio.
DTS Digital Surround - format used for DVDs, offers 5.1-channel surround sound.
DTS-HD - extension of DTS, offers increased bitrates and up to 8 channels of audio.

Note that the codecs are only supported up to 8 channels, even though they can deliver more.

Similar info can be found under the at the official HD DVD site, under the Tech Specs link.

Sanjay

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post #42 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 07:08 AM
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stickie
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post #43 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neekos View Post

stickie

Agreed!
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post #44 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 08:26 AM
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future proof is a nebulous concept and the thread certainly adds some organization. I'm not sure that there has ever been a time when so many changes were occuring at once. Honestly I agree that I haven't seen a "Level 6" receiver in existence.

My philosophy has been to spend a greater amount of money on a great set of speakers since speaker technology is less likely to be all over the map in terms of "upgrades". If you find something you like, you may be set for a 5-10 years. I am not planning on replacing my B&W 802 Diamond mains anytime soon. The sound is fantastic albeit expensive.

One strategy for the receiver crowd might be to simply buy something like the Rotel Class D 7 channel amplifier. It would allow you to upgrade the processor technology without spending vast amounts of money on 7 channels of amplification.

I still like the panasonic saxr57 for now and I plan to stick with it since I have spent almost nothing on it and it sounds great.

My future plan would be to follow the Panasonic Class D line of receivers since they offer the best bang-for-the-buck out there and they have a rapid product cycle, Hopefully they will come out with a new receiver option every 6 months or so with improvements.

Blazar!
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post #45 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 10:12 AM
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Great thread and I vote for stickie too. Anyone with a projector probably only has 1 (or 2 at the most) HDMI inputs, so the HDMI (video) switching either has to be done with a dedicated HDMI switch or with the AVR. I think this is true for many TVs too, except maybe the newer ones. It's easy these days to have 4 or more HDMI sources (cable or/and sat box, TIVO, HDDVD, DVD, Blueray).

I'm helping a friend that is currently setting up a HT and needs an AVR. He wants to have a "musical" AVR and it looks like the Arcam/Rotel mid/high end AVRs are always behind, and don't support HDMI audio yet. Using your terms do you know of any "warm" / musical AVRs that output at least 100 watts and support 5.1 PCM HDMI audio? Thanks.

jcg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindahl View Post

If you really want to spend the $250 to run a single wire to your TV, I guess. But if you're doing it for remote convenience, a much better idea is to buy a universal remote. You gain a lot more convenience, it's more flexible, it's got a better 'wow' factor, it will last you a lot longer, and it's cheaper too - what's not to love! If you're technically adept and aren't scared of a little programming, I recommend looking at the professional Universal Remote or Philips Pronto lines. But, if you want to save money or you're not as technically inclined, go with the Logitech Harmony series. All are computer programmable, which will make setup a breeze (comparatively). Just in case you ask, I use the URC MX-850, but it's probably a bit more than you want to spend.

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post #46 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcg View Post

I'm helping a friend that is currently setting up a HT and needs an AVR. He wants to have a "musical" AVR and it looks like the Arcam/Rotel mid/high end AVRs are always behind, and don't support HDMI audio yet. Using your terms do you know of any "warm" / musical AVRs that output at least 100 watts and support 5.1 PCM HDMI audio?

I'd say with 100% certainty that the Marantz 7001 would be perfect for this application. They're known to be warm/musical, are very well built, have plenty of HDMI inputs and the power you require. Unfortunately, from what I've read, they only support 5.1 PCM HDMI audio (may be wrong), but since that's all you require, you're golden.
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post #47 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

I think someone with better knowledge than ours about hardware implementation of HDMI chip in AVR should step in. As far as I know, for a receiver that can process 7.1 sources (DD EX, DP IIx, DTS ES), there should be no hardware limitations that force the receiver to discard 2 surround back channels from 7.1 PCM over HDMI.

And I'm not 100% sure but the Oppo 970 has internal DD EX decoder and can send the resulting audio in 7.1 PCM over HDMI. So someone with the Oppo may be able to test it.

I was wrong about the Oppo 970. It only has DD, DTS, and DP II decoder for 5.1 PCM output via HDMI. Yes, I think you're right, Lindahl, in saying that currently no disc players are available that output 7.1 PCM over HDMI. So, as to this HDMI audio capability (5.1 vs 7.1 PCM acceptance) of currently available receivers, only time will give us precise information, unless someone with expert knowledge enlightens us.

- Jay
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post #48 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay_WJ View Post

I was wrong about the Oppo 970. It only has DD, DTS, and DP II decoder for 5.1 PCM output via HDMI. Yes, I think you're right, Lindahl, in saying that currently no disc players are available that output 7.1 PCM over HDMI. So, as to this HDMI audio capability (5.1 vs 7.1 PCM acceptance) of currently available receivers, only time will give us precise information, unless someone with expert knowledge enlightens us.

- Jay

The PS3 will output 7.1 LPCM, so I'll know next month if the new Pioneer Elites actually accept discrete 7.1 LPCM audio.
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post #49 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 07:09 PM
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what titles (games/movies) currently have a 7.1 soundtrack?

Boo!
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post #50 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold View Post

what titles (games/movies) currently have a 7.1 soundtrack?

Resistance: Fall of Man, a launch PS3 title, was confirmed by the game's developers to support 7.1 discrete LPCM audio in an interview with IGN.
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post #51 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 08:19 PM
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Regarding HDMI and multi-channel audio..
This should clear up some of the confusion...

Here are some FAQs right from the HDMI.org website..


Q. Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) Additionally, most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI.


Q. Does HDMI support Dolby Digital, DTS, and high-resolution audio formats?

Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any currently available flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby (including Dolby Digital EX 7.1, Dolby Digital Plus 7.1, Dolby TrueHD) or DTS (including DTS-ES 6.1 and DTS-HD Master Audio). (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces). HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless digital surround audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. Additionally, most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI.
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post #52 of 3041 Old 10-22-2006, 10:43 PM
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Hmm with the above mention am I right to say there will be no need for coaxial/optical cables since HDMI is able to support the audio format?
Hope i got it right.

Darthfunk Mini Review

OPPO DV-983H
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post #53 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 07:53 AM
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The only way to guarantee any longevity of future proofing is to make the entire receiver modular. You have a mainboard with slots that can accept, and therefore later change, any style of i/o connector, sound processing card, amplifiers and so on. You would also need to standarize all the slots/cards to ensure compatability & the economy of upgrading. Certainly it wouldn't entirely 'future proof' (someday the mainboard would become obsolete), but in effect extend the usefullness well beyond that of standard receivers whos functionality are completly fixed. We're starting to hear rumors of such devices, but don't hold your breath for mass marketing, because joe blow wants his 'stereo' today whatever it is and they will happily give it to him.
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post #54 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc10000 View Post

The only way to guarantee any longevity of future proofing is to make the entire receiver modular. You have a mainboard with slots that can accept, and therefore later change, any style of i/o connector, sound processing card, amplifiers and so on. You would also need to standarize all the slots/cards to ensure compatability & the economy of upgrading. Certainly it wouldn't entirely 'future proof' (someday the mainboard would become obsolete), but in effect extend the usefullness well beyond that of standard receivers whos functionality are completly fixed. We're starting to hear rumors of such devices, but don't hold your breath for mass marketing, because joe blow wants his 'stereo' today whatever it is and they will happily give it to him.

See Meridian Reference 861. It fits your description and, yes, there have been a few revisions/updates required for the mainboard over the years but the architecture has accommodated many new formats, in/out and processing.

What would be great would be a standard architecture, a la the PC, so that (1) we could select cards from many manufacturers and (2) transfer useful cards over to a new mainboard/chassis as needed. Now, I am not suggesting a HTPC but one that had the user interface of a standard AVR.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
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post #55 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 12:30 PM
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Really the only thing separating a good pre/pro or receiver from being the ultimate htpc is the operating system & storage. There are many specialty companies doing those, wonder how long it will be for the a/v sector to figure this out. The os could be on another card & the storage could be external sata drives like some cable dvrs are using now. But I digress...what really is future proofed ?
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post #56 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 01:10 PM
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Really the only thing separating a good pre/pro or receiver from being the ultimate htpc is the operating system & storage. There are many specialty companies doing those, wonder how long it will be for the a/v sector to figure this out. The os could be on another card & the storage could be external sata drives like some cable dvrs are using now. But I digress...what really is future proofed ?


Look inside the Toshiba HDA1 HD DVD player..
Intel board plus (4) A/D sharcs and plug in memory module..
Also note that inside its chassis tooling was an HDD mounting support brackets.
Next guess what just was announced in Japan by Toshiba...
An HD DVD player, built-in HD and digital satellite tuner..
Then when one realizes the video codec being used was supplied by Microsoft..

The PC biz is driving the hardware and supporting technologies, including HDMI 1.3 deep colors...
But now the primary test is...
Can they only get rid of those pesky blue screens..
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post #57 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 01:15 PM
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The only way to guarantee any longevity of future proofing is to make the entire receiver modular. You have a mainboard with slots that can accept, and therefore later change, any style of i/o connector, sound processing card, amplifiers and so on. You would also need to standarize all the slots/cards to ensure compatability & the economy of upgrading. Certainly it wouldn't entirely 'future proof' (someday the mainboard would become obsolete), but in effect extend the usefullness well beyond that of standard receivers whos functionality are completly fixed. We're starting to hear rumors of such devices, but don't hold your breath for mass marketing, because joe blow wants his 'stereo' today whatever it is and they will happily give it to him.


We can't even "future proof" motherboards for computers. "Upgrading" an existing computer is almost a running joke. You almost always end up getting the new motherboard AND new chip to get your PC to "the next level". In the end, the only way to be future proof is not to increase your expectations about home theater. You got dolby digital 5.1? happy? Stick with it!

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post #58 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if these 'future-proofing' comments are aimed at me, but in case you weren't paying attention: I defined a 'future-proof' receiver as a fully functional 7.1 receiver that will currently play future HD-DVDs and Blue-Rays with 7.1 lossless audio as well as doing upmixing from 5.1 to 7.1. Thanks for the pointing out the obvious though (you can't literally future-proof anything). Perhaps we can keep these [smartarse] comments out of this thread to avoid dilluting the useful information? Thanks.
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post #59 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 03:17 PM
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Lindahl,

Great summary of receivers. Being in the market for a new receiver to initiate my home theater project, this is very useful. I had pretty much decided on the HDTV with the Panny 65" 1080p set. The receiver is next on the list, so I will be using your information in deciding. Looks like VP is being added to receivers, so not sure if waiting for improvements in this area is worthwhile with the cost of an external VP so high. Perhaps something like the Sony STR-DA5200ES might be worth a look, but not sure if it is going to offer any VP that I won't get in my HDTV.
The Flea HDMI looks interesting also to help with the noisy SD content from sat/cable broadcasts.

So much to figure out in this area, so your summary is much appreciated!
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post #60 of 3041 Old 10-23-2006, 08:14 PM
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I'm not sure if these 'future-proofing' comments are aimed at me, but in case you weren't paying attention: I defined a 'future-proof' receiver as a fully functional 7.1 receiver that will currently play future HD-DVDs and Blue-Rays with 7.1 lossless audio as well as doing upmixing from 5.1 to 7.1. Thanks for the pointing out the obvious though (you can't literally future-proof anything). Perhaps we can keep these [smartarse] comments out of this thread to avoid dilluting the useful information? Thanks.


Not being a smartass at all... I was just commenting on why spending massive amounts of money on available "card-cage" strategies is not likely to be great bang for the buck. In the end, the meridian and theta style setups are EXTREMELY expensive ways to skin this cat. In the end, the card-cage computer style setups would only be seriously forward compatible if you could gut them almost completely for new boards... then of course the cost would end up being almost the same as a new receiver anyway.

I said before that I am increasingly more interested in buying "lower end" processors for movie audio playback. This way I can buy/sell on a whim without worrying about whether my pseudo-investment will last 10 years.

On the whole, the best future proof receiver may still be a basic analog 7.1 channel pre-amp (which I'm not sure exists). You could couple this with the latest processor out there and not re-purchase everything each time. In the end it is often pure speculation that the DVD, HD-DVD, Blu-Ray player will do a worse job of D/A conversion than the processor. Besides bass management, it is not a universal truth that all receiver processors will do a better job of audio conversion than the player itself. There is no technical reason why the players couldn't be built to do a better job.

Video switching and audio switching should also be done in a replaceable separate box so I don't have to get a whole new receiver every time hdmi 1.x comes out.

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