5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 25 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #721 of 3041 Old 12-07-2006, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Lindahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Added the Sony STRDG1000 as a level 4 receiver, until we get 7.1 confirmation. I still have to add a disclaimer for the LFE issue, though.
Lindahl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 12:09 AM
Newbie
 
arib0nd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Alright everyone.
I picked up a Sr-604 from Circuity City today. My Infinity Primus 7.1 setup speakers are coming via UPS tomorrow, I am also gonna head to Home Depot tomorrow to grab some speaker wire.

Disclaimer: I have never owned a receiver (and speakers) in my life.

I have the Sr604 , will have my speakers soon, a have a Samsung 6187W 61 inch DLP, and I have a toshiba Hd-xa1 dvd player (with around 6 or so HD dvd titles).

If someone wants to help me (and themselves and everyone out) and walk me through exactly how to test all these different features we keep talking about
(a) Bass management
(b) Speaker Distances
(c) LFE
(d) 7.1 matrixing etc..
I am willing to play around to figure out what is the best setup for me, plus any information that I can contribute on here.

As I mentioned below, I have never owned/setup a receiver speakers before, so please be gentle, but I am a techie.. and I have read a lot of threads on AVS ...
If anyone wants to post instructions on here.. or PM me, that would be great! I can test with HDMI and with Analog for the Sr604 (well as soon as I get my speakers I guess)

Ari
arib0nd is offline  
post #723 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 12:24 AM
KMO
Advanced Member
 
KMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

So, a box was waiting for me this afternoon, and inside was a nice, shiny Sony STRDG1000.

Could you put a summary of the LFE/SW behaviour on the LFE thread, so I can incorporate it to my list? Exactly what options does it have? Does it really bass manage multichannel analogue inputs? That's unusual in this price range.
KMO is offline  
post #724 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 04:59 AM
Advanced Member
 
jedi.night's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 568
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by arib0nd View Post

Alright everyone.
I picked up a Sr-604 from Circuity City today. My Infinity Primus 7.1 setup speakers are coming via UPS tomorrow, I am also gonna head to Home Depot tomorrow to grab some speaker wire.

Disclaimer: I have never owned a receiver (and speakers) in my life.

I have the Sr604 , will have my speakers soon, a have a Samsung 6187W 61 inch DLP, and I have a toshiba Hd-xa1 dvd player (with around 6 or so HD dvd titles).

If someone wants to help me (and themselves and everyone out) and walk me through exactly how to test all these different features we keep talking about
(a) Bass management
(b) Speaker Distances
(c) LFE
(d) 7.1 matrixing etc..
I am willing to play around to figure out what is the best setup for me, plus any information that I can contribute on here.

As I mentioned below, I have never owned/setup a receiver speakers before, so please be gentle, but I am a techie.. and I have read a lot of threads on AVS ...
If anyone wants to post instructions on here.. or PM me, that would be great! I can test with HDMI and with Analog for the Sr604 (well as soon as I get my speakers I guess)

Ari


I'm interested in anything it can and can't do via PCM over HDMI.
So just make sure when you post that you clarify the connection, because I know
most people hook up the the Toshiba A1 via analog.

Thanks!
jedi.night is online now  
post #725 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 07:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JBlacklow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A state of uncertainty
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

Could you put a summary of the LFE/SW behaviour on the LFE thread, so I can incorporate it to my list? Exactly what options does it have? Does it really bass manage multichannel analogue inputs? That's unusual in this price range.

Could you expand on this? Do you mean being able to set speaker size and distance as well as levels (inc. LFE/SW)? I'm at work right now so I won't have a definitive answer for you until after 5pm EST.

"When I get sad I just stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story."
--Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother

Best. Surge Protector. Ever.
JBlacklow is online now  
post #726 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 07:54 AM
KMO
Advanced Member
 
KMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I just want info like I've got for the other receivers in that list - what gain options does it give you for the analogue SW input, and what gain options does it give you for digital LFE? And is the latter setting independent or combined with options for internal DD and DTS?

Also, you suggest speaker size settings affect the multichannel analogue inputs - ie it will redirect bass from the main analogue inputs to the subwoofer. Is that true? It's unusual at this price. Normally it will only do that for digital inputs and stereo analogue inputs.
KMO is offline  
post #727 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 08:41 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,053
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Though, if DSD is going to be converted to 24 bit/192 kHz internally by the PS3 wouldn't PS3 owners be screwed?

Not gonna happen. The sampling rate of DSD, 2.8224Mhz, is a multiple of 44.1kHz, not 48kHz. So, it might get converted to 88.2kHz, or 176.4kHz, but it isn't going to get converted to 96kHz or 192kHz.
Stereodude is online now  
post #728 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 08:59 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,651
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1238 Post(s)
Liked: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

The sampling rate of DSD, 2.8224Mhz, is a multiple of 44.1kHz, not 48kHz. So, it might get converted to 88.2kHz, or 176.4kHz, but it isn't going to get converted to 96kHz or 192kHz.

Confirmed earlier in this thread by a PS3 owner:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

For SACD, both multi-channel and stereo tracks played flawlessly. I thought the unit couldn't go past 96khz, but I was pleasantly surprised that the receiver said the signal was being passed as 176khz PCM.

Sanjay

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #729 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 09:37 AM
KMO
Advanced Member
 
KMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Most (all?) receivers have the same processing limitations for 176.4kHz and 192kHz. Likewise 88.2kHz and 96kHz.

With the PS3 outputting at 176.4kHz, you may lose some receiver function. For example at 88.4kHz you'd lose all Pro Logic modes on the Marantz SR7001, and at 176.4kHz you'd lose tone controls too. I'd hope the PS3 has options for each of 44.1kHz, 88.2kHz and 176.4kHz to avoid receiver limits like that. And then they should add DSD...

Actually, DSD can be converted to 192kHz or 96kHz without too many artefacts, at least compared to converting between different PCM rates. It's one of its selling points for producers, according to Sony - I distinctly remember reading some waffle on that subject; downconversion to any PCM rate can be done with minimal artefacts.

But yes, converting to 44.1kHz-based rates will take less processing oomph, so it's far more likely the PS3 would do that.
KMO is offline  
post #730 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 10:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JBlacklow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A state of uncertainty
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

Most (all?) receivers have the same processing limitations for 176.4kHz and 192kHz. Likewise 88.2kHz and 96kHz.

With the PS3 outputting at 176.4kHz, you may lose some receiver function. For example at 88.4kHz you'd lose all Pro Logic modes on the Marantz SR7001, and at 176.4kHz you'd lose tone controls too. I'd hope the PS3 has options for each of 44.1kHz, 88.2kHz and 176.4kHz to avoid receiver limits like that. And then they should add DSD...

AFAIK, the receiver can't do any sound fields or other such processing on both PCM over HDMI, and for audio above 96khz. As I mentioned, the PS3 gives you many options for output, but I didn't get a chance to see what I could limit it to. I'll check on that tonight as well.

Quote:


But yes, converting to 44.1kHz-based rates will take less processing oomph, so it's far more likely the PS3 would do that.

The PS3 seemed capable of both 44.1khz and 48khz based rates, but I'll try to confirm for you.

"When I get sad I just stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story."
--Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother

Best. Surge Protector. Ever.
JBlacklow is online now  
post #731 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 11:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 9,077
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 922 Post(s)
Liked: 477
Perhaps Sony engineers wanted it to match the current 192 kHz DAC's on the market. We'll have to wait and see what happens next with the PS3 saga.

So, to make a long story even longer, what receivers that have been batted around here accept a 176.4 kHz PCM signal via HDMI and allow proper bass management, time alignment, level trim, etc. and output of said 176.4 kHz signal to their DAC's?

Dan

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #732 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 12:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,053
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Perhaps Sony engineers wanted it to match the current 192 kHz DAC's on the market. We'll have to wait and see what happens next with the PS3 saga.

So, to make a long story even longer, what receivers that have been batted around here accept a 176.4 kHz PCM signal via HDMI and allow proper bass management, time alignment, level trim, etc. and output of said 176.4 kHz signal to their DAC's?

Dan

Any DAC that can take 192kHz can take 176.4kHz. Sample rate conversion is not trivial if they're not multiples of each other. Converting to a format that is an exact multiple of your native sampling rate is much easier and very likely to be better sounding.

To your second question, no idea. I don't have any 176.4kHz or 192kHz sources to try on my 84TXSi and the manual doesn't seem to indicate any limitations. Per the manuals the Denon's can only do Direct and Pure Direct on 176.4kHz and 192kHz sources.
Stereodude is online now  
post #733 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 01:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MSmith83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

To your second question, no idea. I don't have any 176.4kHz or 192kHz sources to try on my 84TXSi and the manual doesn't seem to indicate any limitations. Per the manuals the Denon's can only do Direct and Pure Direct on 176.4kHz and 192kHz sources.

The Pioneer 84 applies all room correction settings (MCACC, etc.) to two-channel 176.4 kHz signals. It downsamples to 88.2 kHz when Pro Logic II or DTS Neo is applied.
MSmith83 is offline  
post #734 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 01:34 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,053
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked: 579
What about 5.1 176.4kHz or 192kHz?
Stereodude is online now  
post #735 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 01:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MSmith83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 62
The PS3 does not detect 5.1/7.1, 176.4 kHz or 5.1/7.1, 192 kHz support for the Pioneer 84. When I force 5.1, 176.4 kHz in the audio setup and play a multichannel SACD, the receiver reads an 88.2 kHz signal. However, I'm not sure if this means the 84 does not support 5.1, 176.4 kHz signals, as the PS3 may not yet output that sampling rate for 5.1 tracks.
MSmith83 is offline  
post #736 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 02:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
krabapple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: in a state bordered by Kentucky and Maine
Posts: 5,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi.night View Post

You make a very good point.

I think most of here, including myself are purely looking from a Digital source HDMI connection for PCM.

I also think most are talking about multichannel, although that isn't always explicit
either.

Quote:


That's why there is some confusion, I believe. Some are stating what they know analog hook ups can and can't do. Getting the rest of us mixed up and more confused.


The thread title is a clue -- 5.1/7.1 PCM + HDMI = digitally transmitted surround PCM -- but I've occasionally been confused (and confusing) myself.

Quote:


For example, I took him as saying you can't apply DPLIIX via HDMI to PCM, but that doesn't mean you can't apply speaker and bass management (manually or with audessy, MACC etc) to PCM over HDMI.

But I might have gotten that wrong! HAHA!


Well, for example, I know for a fact that with the Pio 74txvi AVR you can apply DPLII to two-channel 192 kHz PCM delivered via HDMI, to convert it to '5.1'. 'Cos I've done it with DVD-A sources. Since I don't have a 7.1 setup, I can't know whether the 'x' in DPLIIx (synthesis of surround back channels from surround channels) works as well via the same path.
krabapple is offline  
post #737 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 02:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
krabapple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: in a state bordered by Kentucky and Maine
Posts: 5,304
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080c View Post


Quote:


Originally Posted by sdurani
Except there's no multi-channel PCM coming in over optical or coax digital inputs. S/P-DIF transmits only 2 channels of PCM


I guess that blows that one... :


AFAIK, prior to hi-def DVD, the only consumer source of multichannel PCM was DVD-Audio -- and until HDMI 1.1, the only way to transmit that digitally was via ilink or some proprietary connection like Denon's or Meridian's. DVD-A (and SACD) never achieved more than cult status. Thus any issues of passing multichannel PCM digitally were only of concern to a tiny minority of AV consumers. HD-DVD (assuming it is a success) is going to really put these future-proofing issue on the front burner.
krabapple is offline  
post #738 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 02:30 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,053
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

The PS3 does not detect 5.1/7.1, 176.4 kHz or 5.1/7.1, 192 kHz support for the Pioneer 84. When I force 5.1, 176.4 kHz in the audio setup and play a multichannel SACD, the receiver reads an 88.2 kHz signal. However, I'm not sure if this means the 84 does not support 5.1, 176.4 kHz signals, as the PS3 may not yet output that sampling rate for 5.1 tracks.

I'm more curious if it will deliver DSD as DSD when set to bitstream with some future firmware update.
Stereodude is online now  
post #739 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 02:45 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,651
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1238 Post(s)
Liked: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I'm more curious if it will deliver DSD as DSD when set to bitstream with some future firmware update.

Are there many receivers which have DACs that can convert DSD to analogue? Or will the DSD stream have to be converted to PCM at some point anyway?

Sanjay

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #740 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 03:08 PM
KMO
Advanced Member
 
KMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
All the receivers I know of that accept DSD (via i.Link, Denon Link or HDMI) can convert it directly. But none of them, except possibly Denon, can perform bass management etc without converting to PCM. DSD->Analogue conversion only happens in their pure direct mode.

Denon I'm not sure about - the 3806 manual suggests DSD->PCM conversion doesn't happen in "Direct" mode, and Direct mode apparently does bass management. Can users confirm?
KMO is offline  
post #741 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 03:13 PM
KMO
Advanced Member
 
KMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: England
Posts: 937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post

I'm more curious if it will deliver DSD as DSD when set to bitstream with some future firmware update.

Not convinced that "bitstream" is the best term for DSD. Everything's a stream of bits in the end, but in this instance "bitstream" generally means "encoded data, rather than a raw audio format". DSD is raw audio, just like PCM.

"Bitstream" for Super Audio CD would mean DST - the compressed form of DSD used on SACD, the equivalent of MLP on DVD-Audio. And, just like HDMI 1.3 added DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD(=MLP) support, it also happened to add DST support.

So the PS3 could offer you PCM, DSD and bitstream for Super Audio CD.

Of course, there's no real point to sending DST instead of DSD, but then there's no real point to sending Dolby TrueHD instead of PCM. But people seem to want that sort of thing...
KMO is offline  
post #742 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 04:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JBlacklow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A state of uncertainty
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK, I've got specific info for the STRDG1000 to answer some questions. I'll try to use the terminology from the original post:
  • 7.1 PCM over HDMI: Confirmed with "Resistance" demo. Bitrate was read as 48khz.
  • Surround Processing: As mentioned before, no sound fields or matrixing on 5.1 PCM signals over HDMI, but it is allowed for regular DD/DTS over SPDIF.
  • Simple Processing: Settings seem to be universal, rather than input-by-input, but are for 8 channels. Speaker size, distance (including SW), level from -10 to +10 (including SW), and phase are available for all inputs, analog and digital. Same for EQ settings. There is a specific, separate setting for multichannel +10 LFE, but only for the 8-channel analog input. Crossover can be set on all inputs, but is disabled when speakers are set to LARGE. See DCAC comments below for additional info.
  • DCAC (auto calibration): It appears this is a universal tool that affects all inputs, but it worked when input was set to HDMI. It sets speaker size, distance, level, and phase for all speakers and the subwoofer. For speaker size, all speakers were set to LARGE. The distance for each individual speaker was exactly correct, down to the inch, (e.g., 8ft 7in). Level was set for each individual speaker. Phase was read as OUT-OF-PHASE for all speakers despite a triple-check that everything was hooked up correctly. However, the manual states that this reading may come up for correctly connected speakers due to "speaker specifications". Weird, but I'll go with it for now. It does include automatic EQ setup.
  • SACD via PS3: Confirmed 176.4khz PCM, regardless of Bitstream/PCM settings for either BD/DVD or CD. Reconfirmed that the display shows 5.1 channels but retains original mix on 3.0 (Living Stereo, Mussorgsky: Reiner/CSO), 5.0 (Decca, Dvorak: Fischer/BFO), and 5.1 (EMI, Pink Floyd: DSOTM). On a related note, my DTS CD (The Police: Every Breath You Take) was displayed by the PS3 as a regular CD, but was correctly decoded by the receiver as DTS 5.1.
  • Sample rates: PS3 supports both 44.1khz-based and 48khz-based rates up to 176.4/192khz for PCM. I wasn't able to display bitrates for DD or DTS on the receiver.
Am I missing anything?

"When I get sad I just stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story."
--Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother

Best. Surge Protector. Ever.
JBlacklow is online now  
post #743 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 05:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MSmith83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

SACD via PS3: Confirmed 176.4khz PCM, regardless of Bitstream/PCM settings for either BD/DVD or CD. Reconfirmed that the display shows 5.1 channels but retains original mix on 3.0 (Living Stereo, Mussorgsky: Reiner/CSO), 5.0 (Decca, Dvorak: Fischer/BFO), and 5.1 (EMI, Pink Floyd: DSOTM). On a related note, my DTS CD (The Police: Every Breath You Take) was displayed by the PS3 as a regular CD, but was correctly decoded by the receiver as DTS 5.1.

Am I missing anything?

Did the PS3 automatically detect 5.1/7.1, 176.4 kHz PCM support for the Sony receiver? If so, does the PS3 output 5.1, 176.4 kHz audio for multichannel SACD tracks? Notice that I am not referring to two-channel SACD tracks.
MSmith83 is offline  
post #744 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 05:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JBlacklow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: A state of uncertainty
Posts: 4,692
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Did the PS3 automatically detect 5.1/7.1 LPCM support for the Sony receiver?

Yes. The long list of options went from 2.0 @ 44.1khz to 7.1 @ 192khz, inclusive, with bitrates in multiples of both 44.1khz and 48khz.

Quote:


If so, does the PS3 output 5.1, 176.4 kHz audio for multichannel SACD discs? Notice that I am not referring to two-channel SACD tracks.

Yes. On all my SACDs, the bitrate is read as 176.4khz on the receiver. All tests were done on the multichannel layer, but reread my previous post regarding SACD channels.

"When I get sad I just stop being sad and be awesome instead. True story."
--Barney Stinson, How I Met Your Mother

Best. Surge Protector. Ever.
JBlacklow is online now  
post #745 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 05:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
MSmith83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

Yes. The long list of options went from 2.0 @ 44.1khz to 7.1 @ 192khz, inclusive, with bitrates in multiples of both 44.1khz and 48khz.

Yes. On all my SACDs, the bitrate is read as 176.4khz on the receiver. All tests were done on the multichannel layer, but reread my previous post regarding SACD channels.

Thanks. I was just wondering because the PS3 didn't automatically detect and enable multichannel 176.4 kHz support for my Pioneer Elite receiver. I guess the Pioneer only supports two-channel audio at this sampling rate.
MSmith83 is offline  
post #746 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 05:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
sdurani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Monterey Park, CA
Posts: 19,651
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1238 Post(s)
Liked: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

my DTS CD (The Police: Every Breath You Take) was displayed by the PS3 as a regular CD, but was correctly decoded by the receiver as DTS 5.1

That's because DTS music discs (they're actually not CDs) are deliberately mis-flagged as PCM so that any disc player (CD, LD, DVD, etc) with a digital connection will output the signal.

Sanjay

Sanjay
sdurani is offline  
post #747 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 07:06 PM
Member
 
VeniVideoVici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S.E. Florida, from NYC
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by arib0nd View Post

Alright everyone.
Disclaimer: I have never owned a receiver (and speakers) in my life.

Hoo boy! You just stepped into a pile of quicksand.
Remember two things:
Good enough is actually quite good, and often great.
Good enough is never quite good enough


Quote:


As I mentioned below, I have never owned/setup a receiver speakers before, so please be gentle, but I am a techie.. and I have read a lot of threads on AVS ...
If anyone wants to post instructions on here..
Ari

Please, my brothers and sisters. Help this poor soul so that others may share in his joys and frustrations. We are joined in our quest to find the Holy Grail - Perfection

A fool and his money soon has a pile of last year's state-of-the-art equipment
Me, I wait to jump when I see previous-state-of-the-art pricing
Mamma didn't raise no fool
VeniVideoVici is offline  
post #748 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 07:23 PM
Member
 
VeniVideoVici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S.E. Florida, from NYC
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Well, for example, I know for a fact that with the Pio 74txvi AVR you can apply DPLII to two-channel 192 kHz PCM delivered via HDMI, to convert it to '5.1'.

Since I don't have a 7.1 setup, I can't know whether the 'x' in DPLIIx (synthesis of surround back channels from surround channels) works as well via the same path.

Ya think 2-ch via spdif could also be matrixed to 5.1/7.1 DPLIIx?

A fool and his money soon has a pile of last year's state-of-the-art equipment
Me, I wait to jump when I see previous-state-of-the-art pricing
Mamma didn't raise no fool
VeniVideoVici is offline  
post #749 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 07:24 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Stereodude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Detroit Metro Area
Posts: 10,053
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 600 Post(s)
Liked: 579
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Are there many receivers which have DACs that can convert DSD to analogue? Or will the DSD stream have to be converted to PCM at some point anyway?

Sanjay

Most modern DACs can convert DSD to analog. Whether receivers are set up to send DSD to their DACs is another issue. The higher end receivers that have iLink / DenonLink or the like can pass DSD to their DACs (in Pure Direct Mode). In the other modes they convert DSD to PCM for BM, TA and other processing.
Stereodude is online now  
post #750 of 3041 Old 12-08-2006, 08:21 PM
Member
 
VeniVideoVici's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S.E. Florida, from NYC
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

HD-DVD (assuming it is a success) is going to really put these future-proofing issue on the front burner.

Which is exactly why I did it. I'm keeping my money in my pocket. For now.

I was tipped off by an old army buddy. This birdie told me that a certain B&M CE superstore with an online presence was running a sweetheart deal on....

on a....

On an......

On an Onkyo

The little sister, the TX-SR604, bought on-line, with $120 off in miscellaneous incentives and discounts from the standard retail street price.

I am picking it up tomorrow, locally, less than a mile from where I am going anyway. Like Ari, I am expecting a FedEx of (HT-540 7.1) loudspeakers on Monday. Unlike Ari, I don't yet have the Sammy to display upon. All ye who await my testing and probing (wit) shall have to hold on to thine horses.

So far the budget is on target for under $5K.

I already have a ton of cables. Got Opti and coax for digi.
Does anyone wanna try to convince me that I have to use better than a decent (matched) set of 3' component cables? I won't be running long HDMI, 1x0.5m' & 1x2.0m, and, besides those super thick cables are heavy and more prone to intermission or falling out altogether.

Speakers and the AVR, plus HDMI cables and I'm under $700.

The Sammy price (at the other B&M CE superstore known by its twin initials) dropped another $50 on top of the recent $350 drop gets yet closer to $2K. If I wait long enough (5 weeks ) i'll get it for a hair over a double grand, including tax.

The custom 11' wide wall unit is another $2K.

Given that the room is imperfectly lit, and irregularly shaped, good enough will have to do. Quite nicely, no doubt.

Can't wait to get it rocking for now. Really can't wait for the Sammy too.

Ari, you and me are gonna have fun.


FWIW - I tried CBS-HD from my SA 8300HD via S-Vid into my ProScan. The final hurrah for my CRT. It displayed 1:1 in a window in the middle of the screen, sharp as heck (for SD), amidst the deepest black letterbox bars. I assume that the HD downcon in the box is better than stepped on SD over digital cable. It's all about bandwith and bitrate.

A fool and his money soon has a pile of last year's state-of-the-art equipment
Me, I wait to jump when I see previous-state-of-the-art pricing
Mamma didn't raise no fool
VeniVideoVici is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off