5.1/7.1 PCM, HDMI, and DSP - An Explaination of the Future-Proof receiver - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 3041 Old 07-20-2007, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebScud View Post

Okay, I've gotten to the point where my Logitech Z-5450 can no longer meet my demands. I'm in the market for my first real audio setup. I've been looking at the Onkyo TX-SR805, but $999 is my limit. My two requirements are that the unit is black and is a level 6 so I can get uncompressed 7.1 over HDMI. Thoughts?

My current gear...
TV:
Sony Bravia KDL-46S2010

Sources:
Sony PlayStation 3 over HDMI
Oppo DV-981HD over HDMI
Cable Box (TBD) over HDMI
Nintendo Wii over Component

the 674 does 7.1 over hdmi, but you cannot overlay any soundfields.(better term is it "accepts" and plays 7.1)

JD

"Listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise." Proverbs 19:20
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post #1712 of 3041 Old 07-21-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebScud View Post

Okay, I've gotten to the point where my Logitech Z-5450 can no longer meet my demands. I'm in the market for my first real audio setup. I've been looking at the Onkyo TX-SR805, but $999 is my limit. My two requirements are that the unit is black and is a level 6 so I can get uncompressed 7.1 over HDMI. Thoughts?

My current gear...
TV:
Sony Bravia KDL-46S2010

Sources:
Sony PlayStation 3 over HDMI
Oppo DV-981HD over HDMI
Cable Box (TBD) over HDMI
Nintendo Wii over Component

I love my Denon 2807.

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My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
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post #1713 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 01:44 PM
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I have the Toshiba HD-A2 connected via HDMI to the Onkyo 605.

When buying the 605, my O.C.D. wanted to see "Dolby TrueHD" on the receiver (just like standard DVDs display "Dolby D" when the receiver recognizes the DD signal).

As I half-expected, I played the Superman Returns HD-DVD, selected TrueHD, and the screen showed "Multi PCM 5.1" and NOT "Dolby TrueHD".

From what I've gathered, that is because the A2 cannot output a TrueHD bitstream, but can send it as multichannel PCM.

I guess my question is: will the XA2 (or any other player for that matter) be able to output a TrueHD bitstream so the receiver will recognize it and display "Dolby TrueHD"?
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post #1714 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dts.fan View Post

I have the Toshiba HD-A2 connected via HDMI to the Onkyo 605.

When buying the 605, my O.C.D. wanted to see "Dolby TrueHD" on the receiver (just like standard DVDs display "Dolby D" when the receiver recognizes the DD signal).

As I half-expected, I played the Superman Returns HD-DVD, selected TrueHD, and the screen showed "Multi PCM 5.1" and NOT "Dolby TrueHD".

From what I've gathered, that is because the A2 cannot output a TrueHD bitstream, but can send it as multichannel PCM.

I guess my question is: will the XA2 (or any other player for that matter) be able to output a TrueHD bitstream so the receiver will recognize it and display "Dolby TrueHD"?

That's correct, here is a link. http://www.onkyousa.com/faqs_detail.cfm?detail=1&id=273

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post #1715 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:

Thanks for the link.

So, can the XA2 output a TrueHD bitstream so the 605 will recognize it as True HD?
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post #1716 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dts.fan View Post

Thanks for the link.

So, can the XA2 output a TrueHD bitstream so the 605 will recognize it as True HD?

The answer is in this thread.
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post #1717 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye911 View Post

That's correct, here is a link. http://www.onkyousa.com/faqs_detail.cfm?detail=1&id=273

The link does not answer the poster's question. But I don't think that Toshiba - or any other HD-DVD player - will output the TrueHD bitstream for external decoding.
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post #1718 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dts.fan View Post

........I guess my question is: will the XA2 (or any other player for that matter) be able to output a TrueHD bitstream so the receiver will recognize it and display "Dolby TrueHD"?

Can't answer the particular question but there is another element which has bearing here. The advanced content flag of the disc will determine if the player is allowed to deliver the bitstream in the first place.

From this post:
Quote:


In any event, all of this is moot if you are playing an "advanced content" HD-DVD or Blue Ray disc, since even an HDMI V1.3 receiver will not have the option of doing the decode for such a disc. The decode to PCM for any "advanced content" disc HAS TO happen inside the player.


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post #1719 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:


The answer is in this thread.

Wow. I like how you went out of your way to NOT help me. It would've been so much easier to say "yes" or "no".

I spent an hour or two on this site last night trying to find the answer I am looking for.

Now, I'm at work so I don't have the time to do the same thing for a 400+ page thread, so I was hoping one of the kind members of this forum would help me out. Guess that was too much to ask.
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post #1720 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dts.fan View Post

Wow. I like how you went out of your way to NOT help me. It would've been so much easier to say "yes" or "no".

I spent an hour or two on this site last night trying to find the answer I am looking for.

Now, I'm at work so I don't have the time to do the same thing for a 400+ page thread, so I was hoping one of the kind members of this forum would help me out. Guess that was too much to ask.

2 posts above yours . .
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post #1721 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 02:40 PM
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Quote:


The link does not answer the poster's question. But I don't think that Toshiba - or any other HD-DVD player - will output the TrueHD bitstream for external decoding.

Quote:


Can't answer the particular question but there is another element which has bearing here. The advanced content flag of the disc will determine if the player is allowed to deliver the bitstream in the first place.

That's exactly what I was lookin for. THANKS!!
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post #1722 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dts.fan View Post

I guess my question is: will the XA2 (or any other player for that matter) be able to output a TrueHD bitstream so the receiver will recognize it and display "Dolby TrueHD"?

This is from Cnet's review of the Onky TX-SR605 dated 07-11-07.

"What's so special about the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding? Theoretically, the benefit of having onboard decoding is that HD DVD and Blu-ray players could send these soundtracks to the receiver to be decoded, instead of the players needing onboard decoders themselves. Unfortunately, that's not currently possible. At the time of this review, there are no HD DVD or Blu-ray players that are capable of sending Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio soundtracks in bitstream format. Instead, some (but not all) players decode these formats internally, and then send the decoded signals to attached receivers via HDMI (via uncompressed linear PCM) or multichannel analog-audio connections."

Here is the complete review. http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...tag=prod.txt.1

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post #1723 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye911 View Post

This is from Cnet's review of the Onky TX-SR605 dated 07-11-07.

"What's so special about the Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding? Theoretically, the benefit of having onboard decoding is that HD DVD and Blu-ray players could send these soundtracks to the receiver to be decoded, instead of the players needing onboard decoders themselves. Unfortunately, that's not currently possible. At the time of this review, there are no HD DVD or Blu-ray players that are capable of sending Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio soundtracks in bitstream format. Instead, some (but not all) players decode these formats internally, and then send the decoded signals to attached receivers via HDMI (via uncompressed linear PCM) or multichannel analog-audio connections."

Here is the complete review. http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers...tag=prod.txt.1


Cool. Thanks, Buckeye!!
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post #1724 of 3041 Old 07-23-2007, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dts.fan View Post

Thanks for the link.

So, can the XA2 output a TrueHD bitstream so the 605 will recognize it as True HD?

No... there are no HD/BR player out there that can od this right now.

-steve
My HT Setup - updated 12/25/2012
"...and all the science, I don't understand. It's just my job, five days a week."
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post #1725 of 3041 Old 07-25-2007, 07:57 AM
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Good News for those like me who wanted a Sony 5200 ES, but did not pull the trigger because it was not future proof. The 5300 ES looks like it might be the one.

I can not post the URL, but search on the Sony Style page for 5300 ES
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post #1726 of 3041 Old 07-25-2007, 08:08 AM
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This is slightly OT, but also somewhat related. Denon has announced two new BD players, one of which PASSES Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA bitstreams for external decoding. Now those new Onkyos will have something to process!
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post #1727 of 3041 Old 07-25-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedurocher View Post

the 674 does 7.1 over hdmi, but you cannot overlay any soundfields.

I have an Onkyo 674 and just picked up a Toshiba HD-A2. After a lot of reading, I finally understand why my 2 rear surrounds aren't doing anything. Is there any way around this? I think I can have the A2 downstream the PCM into 2 channel for the 674 to overlay some sound processing to output 7.1. Is it worth it?

If I don't have any options, I may start looking for an upgrade. Are there any receivers for less than $500 that accept up to 7.1, but overlay sound processing to 5.1 to make it 7.1??
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post #1728 of 3041 Old 07-25-2007, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sharerware View Post

I have an Onkyo 674 and just picked up a Toshiba HD-A2. After a lot of reading, I finally understand why my 2 rear surrounds aren't doing anything. Is there any way around this? I think I can have the A2 downstream the PCM into 2 channel for the 674 to overlay some sound processing to output 7.1. Is it worth it?

If I don't have any options, I may start looking for an upgrade. Are there any receivers for less than $500 that accept up to 7.1, but overlay sound processing to 5.1 to make it 7.1??

Yamaha RX-V661
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post #1729 of 3041 Old 07-25-2007, 11:18 AM
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So am I correct in assuming the Onkyo 605 is pretty much the best bang-for-buck receiver capable of handling multiple HDMI inputs?

I just want to get 5.1 (eventually 7.1 I guess) out of my HDMI inputs. I have some 1080p sources and I'll want to run audio from my computer. I'd assume the computer would just need a toslink cable?
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post #1730 of 3041 Old 07-26-2007, 09:44 AM
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What "LEVEL" does the HK avr 247 and the Marantz sr-4001 fit into?

I see that the Yamaha 661 is a level 6 receiver, just trying to make comparisons before I purchase one.
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post #1731 of 3041 Old 07-26-2007, 02:27 PM
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Level 6
7.1 receivers that provide SPDIF, 5.1/7.1 analog inputs, 7.1 HDMI PCM, and allow all three processing types on all digital signals.

Examples: All latest HDMI Denons. Yamaha RX-V661/HTR-6060 and higher. Pioneer Elite 81TXV and higher. Onkyo 805 and higher. Integra *.8 series.

Does anyone know if the Denon AVR-2307CI is a level 6 AVR?

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post #1732 of 3041 Old 07-26-2007, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rocko1290 View Post

Does anyone know if the Denon AVR-2307CI is a level 6 AVR?

Yes. I've just updated the list to say "All HDMI Denons", since I don't believe anyone will end up buying two generations old.
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post #1733 of 3041 Old 07-26-2007, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwkid View Post

First off, I am sorry to have mislead with the 705 addition in my original post. I am going to edit it and remove the 705. There is limited info on the 705 and I do not know what the processing options will be. Just that the 605 does not allow for any processing.

Anything definitive on whether the 705 belongs in level 4

Long time listener, first time caller
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post #1734 of 3041 Old 07-27-2007, 10:08 AM
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What reciever-level do I need for my PS3?

I want it connected through HDMI, and want lossless sound for my 5.1 surround setup.

Plz help a Danish A/V-newbie who just wants great sound out of my PS3
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post #1735 of 3041 Old 07-27-2007, 10:35 AM
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Two days ago, a tech support rep from Integra told me they had "done the work" and provided the bitstream capability to HD DVD manufacurers (and blu ray?), and now it was simply up to them to include it in their machines. He said it could be done as a firmware update.
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post #1736 of 3041 Old 07-27-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mderousse View Post

Two days ago, a tech support rep from Integra told me they had "done the work" and provided the bitstream capability to HD DVD manufacurers (and blu ray?), and now it was simply up to them to include it in their machines. He said it could be done as a firmware update.

Denon has announced two new BD players, one of them a TRANSPORT that passes all codec bitstreams for outboard decoding. Info is a bit sketchy, but I get the impression that it has NO onboard decoders and MUST be used with a AVR/pre-pro that decodes.
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post #1737 of 3041 Old 07-27-2007, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mderousse View Post

Two days ago, a tech support rep from Integra told me they had "done the work" and provided the bitstream capability to HD DVD manufacurers (and blu ray?), and now it was simply up to them to include it in their machines. He said it could be done as a firmware update.

Advanced Authored HD-DVD titles (pretty much all of them) have to be decoded in the player, regardless of what the hardware is capable of. I would imagine the same will apply to any BD titles that use interactive features.

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post #1738 of 3041 Old 07-27-2007, 11:30 AM
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I need some advice on getting a new receiver. Mine is 6 years old.

I am considering one of the 08 Denons (http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receiver...ag=nefdprod.rev), or one of the new Onkyo TXs (http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9712132-1.html). I was starting to settle on the Denon 3808, which is why I am posting here.

But then I read a good review of the Sony STR-DA5300ES (http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receiver...7-32552105.html).

It has 6 HDMI inputs and the review was otherwise pretty solid. The only thing it doesn't seem to have that the Denon 3808 has, is the ethernet connection. Can anyone tell me how important that is ? Are firmware updates for receivers common, like for my HD-XA2?

Thank you.

Samsung UN75F8000 TV
Marantz 1504 AVR, with iPhone 6 Airplay
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post #1739 of 3041 Old 07-27-2007, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlesaint View Post

Advanced Authored HD-DVD titles (pretty much all of them) have to be decoded in the player, regardless of what the hardware is capable of. I would imagine the same will apply to any BD titles that use interactive features.

As I said, I'm relatively sure that the new Denon BD TRANSPORT has no onboard decoding capabilities. I've posted on the Insiders thread re this and the issue you mention, but have not yet received any replies.

Personally, I have no need for the "advanced" features and consider it redundant (read: WASTEFUL) to pay for codec licenses for both my pre/pro and player.
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post #1740 of 3041 Old 07-27-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Denon has announced two new BD players, one of them a TRANSPORT that passes all codec bitstreams for outboard decoding. Info is a bit sketchy, but I get the impression that it has NO onboard decoders and MUST be used with a AVR/pre-pro that decodes.

Pretty much true!

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