Krell? - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > Krell?
AVSRichard's Avatar AVSRichard 07:38 PM 12-11-2006
We know Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Anthem and a host of others, but what are people's opinions of Krell. The reviews in magazines are very good but who has personal ecperience with them.

It's on my interest list.

Richard

Erik in sac's Avatar Erik in sac 10:11 PM 12-11-2006
about as nice as it gets.
J.H.'s Avatar J.H. 10:26 PM 12-11-2006
About as nice as it gets and as expensive too.
Maccur's Avatar Maccur 10:56 PM 12-11-2006
Expensive is in the eye (wallet?) of the beholder. If Krell prices don't make you gasp, then sure, audition. If the prices do make you gasp, listen anyway and determine for yourself whether what you hear is worth the asking price.
dmccombs's Avatar dmccombs 12:25 AM 12-12-2006
Are you asking about their Amps, Prepro, CD, etc.? You may get different replies depending on the equipment in question.

I currently have a Denon 3806 reciever used as a Prepro, and have Krell Amps (3x250 & 2x200) driving my B&W 803 and 804 speakers. The Denon sounded good on it's own, but the Krell's really opened up the sound. I think most of that was giving them a solid 200wpc, more than the quality of the amp.

I have a HTS 7.1 Prepro on order. It should arrive next week, so I can comment more on that in a week or so.

In short, I don't think you will hear many people say that Krell sucks. The question is whether Krell is worth the premium bucks. I bought all my Krell stuff used, so that helped lower the cost, and I am happy with the result so far. For me it has been money well spent.

Personally I have done a lot of upgrading and am tired of doing incremental upgrades. So I did some research and found that most agree that the Krell amps and prepro are great sounding gear.. So I am biting the bullet and buying stuff that hopefully will suffice for many years.

Regards,
Darrell
buddahead's Avatar buddahead 05:37 AM 12-12-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVSRichard View Post

We know Marantz, Denon, Onkyo, Anthem and a host of others, but what are people's opinions of Krell. The reviews in magazines are very good but who has personal ecperience with them.

It's on my interest list.

Richard

Richard Krell is one of the best Brands their is.But on this forum some think a Wal-mart reciever will sound the same as a Krell.So be prepared.BUDDA
500hp's Avatar 500hp 05:53 AM 12-12-2006
I am new to the seperate amp game so take my opinion with a BIG grain of salt.

But in the last month I have auditioned several amps with a Yamaha RX-V2700 as a pre-pro:

Krell Theater Amplifier
B&K Reference 3220 + 2220
Rotel 1095
Adcom GFA 7805
Cary Cinema 5
Earthquake Cinenova

I will say that most of these amps all sounded the same to me. Again, I don't have a trained ear. The three that I thought I could hear "more detail" with were the Krell, the Adcom and the Rotel....listening to music. The HT sounded pretty much the same with all of them. I do remember thinking the B&K lost detail in HT listening.

The Cary, Krell and B&K were more expensive units and the Krell was very expensive. I also did not like the B&K having to put together two units. I was told by the consultant I was using "that's just the way B&K does it".

In the end I purchased the Adcom 7805. It was not the least expensive but it was close and I think I got the most value with this unit. Now, it might be that as I evolve my listening capabilities I might need to upgrade, but for now I am happy I did the right thing for me. YMMV.
AVSRichard's Avatar AVSRichard 07:55 AM 12-12-2006
We may be getting the HTS 7.1 and some amps in the office so I'll likely do a setup and listen demo to see.

I like Denon, they're just good, and I'm very fond of Marantz. Every part in a Marantz is well built, but I'd like to start getting into separates for music and for home theater. In my experience, too many box stores are impressed about how loud you can turn something up, not what the dynamic range is and clarity at any volume. I'll be looking to upgrade my set-up and Krell might be the way to go.

Thanks for the replies, if we get it in, I'll be letting you know my comments, of course.

Richard
dmccombs's Avatar dmccombs 04:49 PM 12-12-2006
Richard,

Please post your HTS 7.1 feedback here when you get it. I get mine tomorrow. We may be able to help each other get these set up. I am used to having Denon questions where there are lots of people to help. I don't know how many folks have the HTS 7.1

BTW, I e-mailed Krell and asked for the latest firmware version. They emailed it to me right away. You may want to do the same.

Regards,
Darrell
2112Raiders's Avatar 2112Raiders 06:28 PM 12-12-2006
I have a Krell KAV 1500, SACD (V5.2) Standard, Showcase 7.1 Pre/Pro. Love them all.

Krell also is really good if you have a problem or want a question answered.

I bought the original SACD Standard off Audigon. It was originally purchased from an authorized Krell dealer. The seller included the bill of sale. Any-way it needed repair after a couple months. Got it back in 9 days. Same problem popped up a day later. E-mailed Krell, got a quick reply back from Patrick Bresnahan the service manager. Very apologetic. Krell replaced my unit with a brand new updated SACD Standard V5.2. free of charge......
AudioArchitect's Avatar AudioArchitect 07:50 PM 12-12-2006
Krell makes an awesome sounding product. Their amplifiers are super high current design and very detailed. Their preamps and processors are as neutral as they come.

The KAV400xi integrated amplifier is one of the best 2-channel amps Ive used for a reasonable price.
BruceOmega's Avatar BruceOmega 01:15 PM 12-13-2006
One thing I've never understood about Krell PrePros is why, according to their web site, they only offer DPLII, but not DPLIIx, on both the HTS 7.1 and Showcase.

Bruce
BobL's Avatar BobL 03:52 PM 12-13-2006
The Krell HTS 7.1 and Showcase are getting a little dated. As an installer they are one of my favorite pieces to install. They have a lot of flexibility that most preamps don't have, especially in the filter section. If you have access to some audio calibration equipment ie. TEF, RTA, MLS. etc. you can really make the Krells shine.

There are many pre-pros with auto EQ and few with some graphic EQ adjustability, but only a handful that has anything near the Krells flexibility. I'd like to see some new Krell stuff with HDMI and updated surround modes, but it is not a deal killer for most.

Bob
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 05:58 PM 12-13-2006
Krell is good stuff until you factor in the price. Then it's pretty mediocre. I'd buy almost anything before I'd buy a Krell, but if you want *image*, then it's pretty good stuff, because that's what you're buying for the most part. Their HT stuff is generally behind the curve, but not good enough performance to make a "buy it for the sound" argument.

http://nadelectronics.com/products/m...d-Preamplifier

1/3rd the price, 50% heavier, HDMI, no "marketing overhead" to pay.
Stupac's Avatar Stupac 06:01 PM 12-13-2006
Remember the movie Krull?
500hp's Avatar 500hp 06:24 PM 12-13-2006
Remember when the Fantastic Four first encountered the Kree?
dmccombs's Avatar dmccombs 11:29 AM 12-14-2006
Well, the HTS 7.1 arrived last night and I got it setup with the except of the EQ. I was able to setup the audio connections, video connections, speakers distances, volume levels, etc.

I am using the same sources, Krell amps, G&W speakers, etc. and all I am upgrading at this time. I am coming from a Denon 3806 used as a Prepro. sO that may put my upcoming comments/feedback into some perspective.

The Krell was more tedious to setup than the Denon, and the Denon had finer increments on some of the settings (distance, channel volume). The Krell remote doesn't acknowledge every key press so setting up each parameter for each device numerous key presses. Still, the concepts are easy enough so the setup went without any major issues. In short it is tedious to setup becuase it is highly configurable. Every input can be treated differently.

Within a second of the music starting, you could notice a more open, more detalied sound, then the Denon. I won't say "a veil was lifted", but things were more clearly defined. I heard things in the music and movies I hadn't noticed before.

The noise floor was lower. The Denon sounded quiet. You would have never thought of the noise floor, until it was lower. I think this is mostly from the XLR/Balanced connections, I can now use between the Krell Prepro and amps.

I am using Analog outs from my Universal player (Denon 3930ci), and the pass through sounds amazing. I also tried some of the same music and movies via the Coax connections and the 2 CH Analog connections.

So far I prefer the Analog Out connections which surprised me a bit. I thought DTS passed via Coax and using the Krell DACs would sound better than using the Denon 3930's DACs. This surprised me a bit, but I only had a few hours to test/listen last night.

I didn't get to try the EQ at all. It has 8 bands and 4 parameters per band (I believe). At 2:00a, I was not ready to dive into that. It looks more complex and configurable than other EQs I have used. Does anyone have suggestions as to how I would set up the EQ. I do have a RS Meter and REW installed on a laptop.

I will add more this weekend after I have learned more.

Regards,
Darrell
AudioArchitect's Avatar AudioArchitect 01:15 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

Krell is good stuff until you factor in the price. Then it's pretty mediocre. I'd buy almost anything before I'd buy a Krell, but if you want *image*, then it's pretty good stuff, because that's what you're buying for the most part. Their HT stuff is generally behind the curve, but not good enough performance to make a "buy it for the sound" argument.

http://nadelectronics.com/products/m...d-Preamplifier

1/3rd the price, 50% heavier, HDMI, no "marketing overhead" to pay.

You cant compare NAD and Krell. NAD breaks after 2 years. Krell stuff lasts a lifetime. Krell designs products in house, whereas NAD uses ATI amplifiers or a like alternative.

Just because I cant afford to buy a lamborghini doesnt mean I will call it a piece of junk and claim a BMW will thrill me the same.
Shiney6188W's Avatar Shiney6188W 01:27 PM 12-14-2006
remember when Morbius told us all about the Krell (a society 1,000,000 times more advanced than humans that became extinct in one day)?
dsmith901's Avatar dsmith901 02:13 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceOmega View Post

One thing I've never understood about Krell PrePros is why, according to their web site, they only offer DPLII, but not DPLIIx, on both the HTS 7.1 and Showcase.

Bruce

Aha - you have discovered the major downside to virtually every "high end" AVP - they are always way, way out of date in terms of having the latest features. DPLIIx has been out for about three years and none of the big boys are offering it except Lexicon (and there just the MC-4), Cary Audio, and Anthem, and for most of them it will be years before you see HDMI switching or audio input. The more expensive the AVP (Krell, Classe, Mark Levinson) the more outdated it is likely to be, from my experience. They do often offer superior analog sections, however, and mating them for stereo only with a cheaper but more up-to date AVP or receiver, is a good compromise for many of us. But you don't have to pay so much to get that - look for a good used Citation 7.0 ($500-800) or a Aragon Soundstage ($800-1000).
J.H.'s Avatar J.H. 03:17 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

Aha - you have discovered the major downside to virtually every "high end" AVP - they are always way, way out of date in terms of having the latest features. DPLIIx has been out for about three years and none of the big boys are offering it except Lexicon (and there just the MC-4), Cary Audio, and Anthem, and for most of them it will be years before you see HDMI switching or audio input. The more expensive the AVP (Krell, Classe, Mark Levinson) the more outdated it is likely to be, from my experience. They do often offer superior analog sections, however, and mating them for stereo only with a cheaper but more up-to date AVP or receiver, is a good compromise for many of us. But you don't have to pay so much to get that - look for a good used Citation 7.0 ($500-800) or a Aragon Soundstage ($800-1000).

Not true B&K has DPLIIX. they may not have the bells and whistles that Denon has but they have superior sound. Of coarse that my opinion. I don't want any of the hard heads in here having a fit. Its my opinion that they superior sound but not all the newest bells. I think people know that when they are going to buy separates. At least they should.
whoaru99's Avatar whoaru99 04:18 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:


...I heard things in the music and movies I hadn't noticed before...

I've had this experience before and thought "wow, amazing, what detail" etc., until I reconnected the old stuff and heard the same things.

All I can figure is that I was listening more carefully to the new gear than I had been with the old stuff.

Not saying this phenomena is always the case, but I'd wager it's a more common situation than people care to acknowledge.
Kishore's Avatar Kishore 04:44 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

...DPLIIx has been out for about three years and none of the big boys are offering it except Lexicon (and there just the MC-4), Cary Audio, and Anthem

Which big boys do you refer to besides Krell which do not offer DPLIIx today?
Meridian?Theta?Halcro?Classe?Bryston?



cheers,
Kishore
mark russ's Avatar mark russ 05:05 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

You cant compare NAD and Krell. NAD breaks after 2 years. Krell stuff lasts a lifetime. Krell designs products in house, whereas NAD uses ATI amplifiers or a like alternative.

Just because I cant afford to buy a lamborghini doesnt mean I will call it a piece of junk and claim a BMW will thrill me the same.

I would buy the NAD Master Series M3 integrated amp for $2800 retail before I would a Krell KAV400XI for $2500. MUCH better built, and I'm sure more powerful as well.
mark russ's Avatar mark russ 05:07 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsmith901 View Post

Aha - you have discovered the major downside to virtually every "high end" AVP - they are always way, way out of date in terms of having the latest features. DPLIIx has been out for about three years and none of the big boys are offering it except Lexicon (and there just the MC-4), Cary Audio, and Anthem, and for most of them it will be years before you see HDMI switching or audio input. The more expensive the AVP (Krell, Classe, Mark Levinson) the more outdated it is likely to be, from my experience. They do often offer superior analog sections, however, and mating them for stereo only with a cheaper but more up-to date AVP or receiver, is a good compromise for many of us. But you don't have to pay so much to get that - look for a good used Citation 7.0 ($500-800) or a Aragon Soundstage ($800-1000).

I agree, get a killer 2 channel pre-amp and integrate an AVR as a pre-pro for movies, then replace it every couple of years as features, formats, etc. evolve is a much better economical approach.
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 11:47 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

Krell makes an awesome sounding product. Their amplifiers are super high current design and very detailed. Their preamps and processors are as neutral as they come. The KAV400xi integrated amplifier is one of the best 2-channel amps Ive used for a reasonable price.

You need to get out more. I heard the same thing about the KAV300 but when I traded one in, everyone who was so excited to see one used kept bringing it back complaining about how bad it sounded. Krell was interesting during the 80s. In the 90s, they evolved into typical high-end showmanship type of product.
Alimentall's Avatar Alimentall 11:55 PM 12-14-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioArchitect View Post

You cant compare NAD and Krell. NAD breaks after 2 years. Krell stuff lasts a lifetime. Krell designs products in house, whereas NAD uses ATI amplifiers or a like alternative.

Oh, I have plenty of Krell and ex-Krell owners that will tell you how "reliable" it is. NAD and ATI have nothing to do with each other.
Quote:



Just because I cant afford to buy a lamborghini doesnt mean I will call it a piece of junk and claim a BMW will thrill me the same.

I don't think you're getting this. Meridian is a Lamborghini for the price of a Lamborghini. Krell is, well, it isn't a Lamborghini, just priced like one. A Meridian G68 would chew up an HTS and spit it out, as would the NAD. I'd take an Arcam or Anthem first. Certainly a Halcro. I don't know of too many audio/video writers that own Krell surround units, but there sure are a lot of them that own Meridian. In addition to being modular so they won't be two years out of date, they have much more advanced surround decoding. The 7.1 isn't even nearly as nice as the $3000 NAD. Probably not even as nice as the upcoming $2000 NAD. Pretty cabinet at least.
Rammitinski's Avatar Rammitinski 12:04 AM 12-15-2006
Krell - isn't that what whales eat?
500hp's Avatar 500hp 08:53 AM 12-15-2006
Quote:


NAD breaks after 2 years.

Interesting. I have a set (three) of NAD 2200s that must be 12 years old.....maybe older. They operate perfectly and sound fantastic.
Snake Plissken's Avatar Snake Plissken 08:56 AM 12-15-2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Krell - isn't that what whales eat?

hehehe......I think it is what you put your days catch of trout in.
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