EMOTIVA Thread Q&A [TECHNICAL TALK ONLY] - Page 574 - AVS Forum
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post #17191 of 17219 Old 04-16-2014, 02:41 PM
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wow. just wow.
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post #17192 of 17219 Old 04-16-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

When I was using it as a pream I thought it was great!! I needed bass management so it now just serves as a DAC but great sounding versatile peice!

It would be nice if they had a sub out and a extra set of Analog inputs.......
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post #17193 of 17219 Old 04-18-2014, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PGT FTW View Post

any news on the much delayed XMC-1?

You can hear the latest update here:

http://emotiva.com/podcasts/041114/podcast.mp3
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post #17194 of 17219 Old 04-18-2014, 04:48 PM
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Since I don't have the cash right now I figured I'd pass this along. Great deal though shipping may be pricey...

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-emotiva-xpa-3-3-channel-amplifier-2014-04-18-amplifiers-00924
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post #17195 of 17219 Old 04-29-2014, 08:06 PM
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Where is the S/N located on the xpa-5 amp?
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post #17196 of 17219 Old 05-02-2014, 11:36 AM
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Interesting as I have the Emotiva Stealth DC-1 hooked up to the little Int. X-100 with some decent results on a pair of KEF LS50, which people say is a hard speaker too drive but doesn't seem to be an issue from what I am hearing. Granted not a fair comparison, when compared too my Musical Fidelity KW-500 which puts out 500wpc. wink.gif
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post #17197 of 17219 Old 08-06-2014, 12:05 PM
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I'm thinking about possibly purchasing three emotiva XPR-2 to power my bass.
Why because they are incredibly much better looking than the PA amplifier and completely silent because the has no fan.

But I wonder whether there is anyone who has tested XPR to drive down to infrabas
If they manage to go down to 6-5Hz.

And if there is anyone who tested so you can read and I've already read from the test.
Audioholics and Home Theater and HiFi but like an independent test.
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post #17198 of 17219 Old 08-06-2014, 08:09 PM
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IMO. I think the XPR-2 to power subs is a waste of a good amplifier. All you really need is a decent Class-D amp. The D-Sonic amps don't look too bad and they have " half width " versions for one and three channels. They are more expensive than Emotiva XPR series though. Their 2 x 1500 watt ( 8 Ohms ) is about $2400.

Emotiva is having a clearance sale on some of their products, including the XPA-1L and UPA amps. I decided to pick up a pair of Stealth 6 monitors while they still have some left. I have the Airmotiv 5 and will give these to a family member when the Stealth 6 arrive.

Wonder what Emotiva is going to replace the Stealth 6 with since they are pushing these in an active HT setup as surround speakers and Stealth 8 as the front three.

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post #17199 of 17219 Old 08-08-2014, 07:34 AM
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I already have D amplifier that drives Revel but I somehow love for
A / B-H power amplifiers, you know the old fashioned ..;-)

But I have a bigger problem that I think is a bit strange when things are all about business.
That you refuse to send any of the models XPR internationally because it is too heavy
and great ....?

But they send XPA-1 weighing and they have this quality:
size:
Unboxed: 17 "wide x 7 3/4" high x 19 "deep
Boxed: 23 1/2 "wide x 12" high x 24 3/4 "deep
Weight: 73 lbs (84 lbs boxed)

But they do not send XPR-2 weighing and measuring them here.
Dimensions:
Unboxed: 17 "wide x 9.5" high x 19.5 "deep (includes feet and Binding Posts; requires additional 3-4" of depth clearance to accomodate the power cord).
(double) Boxed: 27 "length x 25" width x 16" height
Weight: 100 lbs (net); 114 lbs (boxed)

It's just that the stronger / heavier boxes that customer will pay.
I have to have a middleman who then forwards it to me ??

Mark Levinson would not sell many amplifiers with that attitude ??

How do all the other companies that sell considerably heavier bigger things?

It's true that I write.

Tests on the XPR-1 if anyone wants to read .....

http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier...xpr1-amplifier

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/power...amplifier.html
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post #17200 of 17219 Old 08-08-2014, 05:57 PM
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I don't know if anyone here has reported or come across ( I have not ) a peculiar issue with my UMC 200. I have owned it since April 2013 and it has functioned perfectly until the last week or so when I noticed the volume level was dropping on all of the speakers while watching a movie with a 5.1 sound track, or an older film with mono whether using the center speaker or front left and right. The issue has also occurred when using either an Oppo bdp 93 with hdmi audio out. an Oppo bdp 95 using the analog 5.1 outputs and also two dvd players, one coaxial and the other using optical out. While the sound level drops, usually within 30 minutes, the two subs I am using ( svs cylinders ) remain at normal levels so they become rather prominent. When I turn up the volume past 50 to get any reasonable levels there is a breakup of the sound with distortion - not very pleasant! If I turn the unit off for a few minutes on standby it functions normally for a short time before it happens again. I tried resetting the umc 200 to the factory default and the problem still persists - It still has the original firmware as I could never get the update to load into my laptop so I gave up on that. I also tried to run the emo-q and it was fine for about ten minutes ( I had been watching part of a concert for 15 minutes or so ) when test tones started breaking up as they got louder- so same issue. I am wondering if Emotiva would send a new board I could install, I frankly do not really want to ship it there as I live in Canada. Also. would they frown on taking off the cover to check and possibly re seat the connectors on the board? I have heard of some doing this to some of their products, don't know if it applies to the umc 200 though. It seems a number of people have had various issues after a year or so from reading on various forums...
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post #17201 of 17219 Old 08-08-2014, 11:17 PM
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^
"Official" Emotiva UMC-200 Thread

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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post #17202 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 01:06 PM
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I ask this question here because it is a technical. I am curious. I own some very efficient speakers 100db. I am currently powering them with my Denon AVR (140wpc) but have wondered if adding a dedicated external amp would help with the sound quality. Offering better vocals, deeper bass, etc. After all the Denon states 140wpc but is that PER channel or shared to ALL 9 channels? So, here is my question. I could purchase a Crown amp putting out 300wpc or an Emotiva XPA2 which is also 300wpc amp. There is a substantial price difference.

So, technically speaking WILL I hear a justified difference between all 3 amps? if so, which setup and why. Im sure there are people on this site that own Emotiva amps for their speakers and pro amps for their subs. Have you ever tried connecting your pro amp in stereo mode and compared it against your Emotiva or your AVR? I am not here to start arguments over who is better but rather a technical answer. And im not worried about which will play louder, they ALL will play more than loud enough for HT. I'm just curious if I could produce better sound, dialogue, vocals, bass, deeper soundstage, etc by using external amps.

I know for a fact when I heard a pair of B&W 802D connected to an onkyo AVR they sounded like crap but when they connected them to a McIntosh 300wpc amp they sounded completely different and amazing. I don't believe it had anything to do with a $4,000 amp but rather how efficient the amp was at sending power to the speakers. I wonder if they would have sounded the same with a pro amp producing 300wpc *All just assumptions since its all guess work to me*

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post #17203 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 01:13 PM
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I've had a lot of different amps over the past 12 years. One of the biggest surprises was a Crown XLS-1500 amp I had in my setup for half a year or so - it weighs 10 pounds and pumped out 525w into my 4ohm speakers. And did so with as much clarity as any consumer grade amp I've ever owned. Of course you'll have to try the pro amps out yourself - you might hear a difference - I did not.
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post #17204 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post
I've had a lot of different amps over the past 12 years. One of the biggest surprises was a Crown XLS-1500 amp I had in my setup for half a year or so - it weighs 10 pounds and pumped out 525w into my 4ohm speakers. And did so with as much clarity as any consumer grade amp I've ever owned. Of course you'll have to try the pro amps out yourself - you might hear a difference - I did not.

You did hear a difference or you did not? I thought you said it was an awesome amp until the last 3 words in your statement. I actually own the Crown XLS-1500 amp and was wondering if it would make a difference if I ran it in 2ch stereo mode or If I bought 3 and ran each bridged (which is probably just crazy). So your saying the Crown amp is better than any commercial amp you heard? like any onkyo, pioneer, Yamaha, denon AVR and/or Emotiva, Parasound, Rotel etc. ie. the more expensive external commercial amps?

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post #17205 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 01:45 PM
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From what I understand he is saying he didn't hear a difference between the Crown and previous amps he has owned but other people might.

Make something idiot-proof, and they will build a better idiot
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post #17206 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 01:54 PM
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I have an XPA-3 and three UPA-2 amps and I also have a Crown XLS which I bought for a particular project which never came to fruition. In my own tests I could hear no differences at all between any of them, which ties in with my understanding of amplifier technology. All of the amps have distortion levels well below the threshold of human audibility and all are powerful enough to drive my speakers to the required SPL in my room, without clipping. The XLS has fans, which are often mentioned, but I could never detect them running - I assume they only kick in if needed. And the XLS is pig ugly if that is a consideration. Other than that, I'd be happy with any of the amps mentioned.
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post #17207 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlhaudio View Post
You did hear a difference or you did not? I thought you said it was an awesome amp until the last 3 words in your statement. I actually own the Crown XLS-1500 amp and was wondering if it would make a difference if I ran it in 2ch stereo mode or If I bought 3 and ran each bridged (which is probably just crazy). So your saying the Crown amp is better than any commercial amp you heard? like any onkyo, pioneer, Yamaha, denon AVR and/or Emotiva, Parasound, Rotel etc. ie. the more expensive external commercial amps?
IMO they all sound great. I was very surprised that a 10 pound amp could be that good. I'm used to 30-80 pound two channel amps. Crown should consider installing a 12v trigger for home use. With as much power as the XLS amp has I wouldn't consider bridging it. But feel free to give it a go - you might hear a difference.
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post #17208 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 05:47 PM
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Were you using the Crown Amps in 2 channel stereo mode or bridged mono mode? Does it make a difference other than power output?
I read that running pro amps bridged can actually hurt your speakers? I don't understand that comment at all. Lets' assume the Crown XLS 1500 specs 300wpc @ 8 ohms OR bridged 1050wpc.
How does the speaker know if the signal being received is "stereo 300wpc " or "bridged 1050" and how would it damage your speaker? Sure, if its "user" error but other than user error then what? Is there a setting within the amp that changes some mysterious THD setting or something. Yes, Sarcasm.
The reason I ask is that I have a choice to make.
Option 1: I can just use my Denon AVR to power all 9 of my speakers and let my Crown XLS1500 power my 2 Ultimax subwoofers.


Option 2: I can use two of my Crown XLS 1500 in "Stereo" mode to power my 3 front speakers @ 300wpc leaving one channel un-used and THEN purchase an Inuke 6000dsp to power my 2 passive 15" Ultimax subs which my Crowns are currently powering


Option 3: I can purchase 3 Crown X1000 ($99.00 each) to power my 3 front speakers @ 600wpc "bridged" and leave my Crown XLS 1500 to power my subs.
Link to Crown X1000 http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...300w-power-amp


Which option would you chose if you were me?
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post #17209 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 06:40 PM
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All your nine speakers, your Denon receiver is crossing them all @ around 80Hz?

And all your speakers, they are 8 Ohm loads? ...Or some go below?

And all your speakers, they are above 87dB sensitivity (in-room)?

And all your speaker's drivers, they are not larger than 6.5" in diameter?

And your own personal preferred averaged volume level in your room, is not above 105dB on peaks (the speakers, not the subs)?

And your two subs, what size drivers?

And your own thinking about them three options?
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post #17210 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 07:45 PM
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I was hoping I wouldn't have to get super technical. Room size is 22x16x9 in a basement


My front 3 speakers are QSC 2150's. http://qsc.com/products/Loudspeakers...eries/SC-2150/
My Rears are QSC 8101 http://qsc.com/products/Loudspeakers/Sr_Series/SR-8101/
DIY 2 more Volt Coax 10's from DIY soundgroup. I have not decided if I will build 4 more volt 10" for ceiling Atmos or 2 more slanted box for now.
DIY 15" Dayton Ultimax in a sealed sub - passive


2 Plate subs 15" 1,000 watts


Currently running 7.4 setup. I can add 2 more to my Denon and 2 more with an external amp for 11 ch. Whether its height/width or ceiling.


I am looking for the best possible option for my Home Theater. Accurate vocals I can hear, gun shots that sound real, accurate soundstage, NOT loud, they play loud. Im looking more toward accuracy. I have always been told if I want accuracy to push a lot of power so the speakers don't clip or distort. That's why I was considering bridging with the crown amps or even running stereo mode. I assume when my Denon is trying to operate all 11 channels its NOT doing so at 140wpc. Something has to give. So, if you had extra money to do it right, which option would you choose. I may or may not decide to upgrade to Atmos. If I do, it will be an 11ch amp.

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post #17211 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 08:49 PM
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IMO bridging the XLS amps is just a waste of amp channels since there is so much power available in stereo mode. You won't hurt the speakers or the amps since you'd likely blow your eardrums before maxing out the amps or blowing the speakers. In fact your AVR could easily drive those speakers without external amps. 100db efficient? A kid's transistor radio could probably drive them pretty easily. Why all the extra amperage for those speakers in an average sized room? Other than for the non-amplified 'extra' channels anyways.

That old wives tale about needing gobs of power to get dynamic sounds? Its an old audio myth. I normally hate car analogies but here goes: If it takes a car 100hp to climb a big hill adding another 100hp isn't going to get the car over the hill any more efficient with that extra hp. It just cost more money. If it takes 20w to drive a single speaker to reproduce all the movements in a song a 20w amp will play it just as well as a 200w amp. The only difference? The 200w amp will have about 6-7db of headroom. i.e. - hp you didn't use and didn't need.

FWIW:

Your speakers are 100db efficient. Meaning they play at 100db (earsplitting) at one meter while using one watt to do so. From 3 meters it'll take about 4 watts to maintain that level of sound. Its a logarithmic function - not linear. To gain (no pun intended) 3db it takes a doubling of power - i.e. - 2 watts to get to 103db - to get to 106db it takes another doubling of power - 4 watts. You can extrapolate that out to 115db or so if you want. Suffice it to say that at 3 meters it takes about 4 watts to get to 100db - I doubt your Denon is breaking a sweat unless you're sustaining serious ear damage and peeling the paint on your walls.

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post #17212 of 17219 Old 08-13-2014, 09:28 PM
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Sounds good to me knucklehead. I always wonder why the manufacturer wants you to buy larger amps with loads of power. As you say they are 100db efficient. I thought maybe giving it more or cleaner power. Since a stand alone amp is just a power supply, there is no other crosstalk happening or switching like an AVR that it would sound better. I don't mean to confuse that with louder. I mean sound cleaner. In other words, does a piano sound like a piano, can you hear the individual strings in a guitar or drum beats. If its a Tori Amos song "smells like teen spirit" can you hear her breathing into the microphone. The small details like that.
Do the same rules apply? Will the speaker re-produce and sound the same regardless of the amplifier. Whether it is a Crown, Denon, McIntosh, Classe, Mark Levinson etc. Will the speakers sound the same if I used any one of those amps? If the answer is Yes, then it boils down to the individual speaker components used. Ie. If I swapped our the Compression driver with a different brand then the vocal may sound different. If I swapped our the 15" celestion woofers with JBL woofers the bass may sound tighter or looser. But regardless the amp would remain a constant. Is that basically correct? Without getting super technical.

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post #17213 of 17219 Old 08-14-2014, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post
IMO bridging the XLS amps is just a waste of amp channels since there is so much power available in stereo mode. You won't hurt the speakers or the amps since you'd likely blow your eardrums before maxing out the amps or blowing the speakers. In fact your AVR could easily drive those speakers without external amps. 100db efficient? A kid's transistor radio could probably drive them pretty easily. Why all the extra amperage for those speakers in an average sized room? Other than for the non-amplified 'extra' channels anyways.

That old wives tale about needing gobs of power to get dynamic sounds? Its an old audio myth. I normally hate car analogies but here goes: If it takes a car 100hp to climb a big hill adding another 100hp isn't going to get the car over the hill any more efficient with that extra hp. It just cost more money. If it takes 20w to drive a single speaker to reproduce all the movements in a song a 20w amp will play it just as well as a 200w amp. The only difference? The 200w amp will have about 6-7db of headroom. i.e. - hp you didn't use and didn't need.

FWIW:

Your speakers are 100db efficient. Meaning they play at 100db (earsplitting) at one meter while using one watt to do so. From 3 meters it'll take about 4 watts to maintain that level of sound. Its a logarithmic function - not linear. To gain (no pun intended) 3db it takes a doubling of power - i.e. - 2 watts to get to 103db - to get to 106db it takes another doubling of power - 4 watts. You can extrapolate that out to 115db or so if you want. Suffice it to say that at 3 meters it takes about 4 watts to get to 100db - I doubt your Denon is breaking a sweat unless you're sustaining serious ear damage and peeling the paint on your walls.
this all sounds great if those are your peak values. For music listening I have situations for short periods of time we listen to loud music (95-100dB) and short bursts of crest factor will get 120dB. At that point you need 100x the power. So 10 watts become 1000 watts. Power is cheap don't skimp on it umless you are certain your peak values are not being clipped. Read some of Tom Danley's research on crest factor. Simple sounds at reference like a car door slamming will easily hit 120dB for a very very short period of time (crest factor) but don't be surprised how it effect hearing fatigue vs a system that does not clip.
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post #17214 of 17219 Old 08-14-2014, 07:10 PM
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When I watch a movie its not a reference levels depending on who your asking. Its loud, but not ear piecing or as loud as some theaters I have been in. (guess they assume loud sounds better). I play my denon around -20 on the volume, any louder and it seems like my amp cant quite keep up. It almost sounds like its trying to double the output. Its starts getting much louder much quicker. Whereas if I start at -40 and slowly turn the knob, the sound slowly gets louder but once I hit the -20 mark it almost sounds like its straining. (which I know it isn't due to my speakers 100db) Its almost starts to sound ear piecing and fatiguing.
That's why I was curious if I ran my crown amp in stereo or bridged it it would HELP make the speakers sound better at louder volumes. ie, less ear piecing. That may not be possible due to the type of speaker, after all its meant to play loud. Its sort of like the difference between listing to a horn tweeter and a dome tweeter and loud volumes. Most people can only handle a horn for so long.


I guess I was hoping by running my Crown amps in eiher 2ch Stereo or Bridged Mono I would have the exta oomph factor with movies. The scary scenes or loud gun shot scenes etc. When everything is playing soft and quiet at 70db then bam, it jumps to 120db. I wasn't sure if my AVR could keep up or if I needed to use external amps. But I don't want to waste my money either. I don't need to show off to my friends that I own a $4,000 amp or I have 6 pro amps connected if the result is the same with a single AVR.

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post #17215 of 17219 Old 08-14-2014, 09:02 PM
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Try Option 1 and see (hear) how it goes.
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post #17216 of 17219 Old 08-14-2014, 10:24 PM
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I could run a few movies through and see what the results are. Any recommendations for "TEST" movies? I don't need to text LFE which seems be the majority list for testing movies. Something in the middle sounds good, I was thinking Star Wars. Maybe the Pod Race or a LOTR movies, but I have no idea which one or what part. Im trying to hear both my LF and HF accuracy. but NOT LF from my subs. The LF from my dual 15's.
It too bad the didn't remake "heat" the gunfire scene at the bank robbery was awesome. Maybe I could try a Predator or X-men movie. What about saving private ryan... MY HT isn't made for music so trying a concert would prob be pointless although I do own some. They still have that crazy deal on the Crown X1000 I wonder how long its good for before the price goes back up to $179.00. I have already seen people asking more on Ebay and GETTING BIDS!. I wish I had a few grand to buy a bunch and sit back and make $50 to $100 per sale. lol

Denon 4311CI, Denon 1913Marantz NR1403 for sale
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post #17217 of 17219 Old 08-14-2014, 10:26 PM
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Try 'Tron: Legacy' on Blu-ray. ...And of course LOTR Trilogy on Blu.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-14-2014 at 10:30 PM.
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post #17218 of 17219 Old 08-14-2014, 10:57 PM
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Good choices

Denon 4311CI, Denon 1913Marantz NR1403 for sale

Last edited by rlhaudio; 08-15-2014 at 02:46 PM.
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post #17219 of 17219 Old Yesterday, 06:33 AM
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I am planning to add-on an Emotiva UPA-700 to my Denon 3312. Without adjusting any speaker level trim setting, will the final volume (SPL) increase or decrease or stay constant?
Generally, does adding an external amplification makes everything louder by default, regardless if it has 29dB/32dB internal amp gain?
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