Dolby TruHD and DTS HD decoding - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 01-14-2007, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Read the entire thread..
It refers to a Dolby Digital 5.1 decoder..

The mandatory requirement from the DVD consortium refers to a STEREO Dolby Digital decoder..

Next question..

OK, next Q is:

Are they different things? I mean are there 2.0 DD decoders and 5.1 DD decoders, or does one DD Decoder unit (chip, board?) in the player cater for all channels?

Boo!
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post #32 of 56 Old 01-14-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egcarter View Post

Read the three-page Dolby Labs blurb about the next generation audio formats and your AVR (pay particular attention to page 3):

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...HD_avrs_1.html

Eric

That page 3 should be reprinted in bold type in a sticky thread here....
--Bob


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post #33 of 56 Old 01-14-2007, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold View Post

I mean are there 2.0 DD decoders and 5.1 DD decoders, or does one DD Decoder unit (chip, board?) in the player cater for all channels?

Same decoder. The number of channels is determined by the content, not the decoder. There's no such thing as decoding only 2 channels of a DD 5.1 soundtrack. That would be like unzipping only the first paragraph of a zipped document.

For the analogue stereo outputs, the bitstream is first decoded to however many channels are in the soundtrack and then downmixed to 2 channels. All DVD players can decode up to 5.1 channels of DD.

Sanjay

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post #34 of 56 Old 01-14-2007, 11:38 PM
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Sanjay

thanks .. thats what I thought but i have to make sure

can we say then that KMO's statement is correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

Every DVD player on the planet has a Dolby Digital decoder. They have to.


Boo!
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post #35 of 56 Old 01-15-2007, 01:06 AM
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Of course it's correct.

Now, when it comes to Dolby TrueHD (aka MLP), that's a bit cleverer. TrueHD/MLP is a compulsory format for DVD-Audio and HD DVD, so all players have to be able to handle it. But unlike Dolby Digital, stereo-only players don't have to have a full 6/8-channel decoder - the channels are actually stored as a L/R downmix, plus 4 difference channels to give 5.1, and another 2 difference channels to give 7.1. 2-channel players just decode the 2 downmix channels and dump the rest.
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post #36 of 56 Old 01-15-2007, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold View Post

can we say then that KMO's statement is correct

Of course it's corre... Hmm, I see KMO beat me to it.

Sanjay

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post #37 of 56 Old 01-15-2007, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by egcarter View Post

Read the three-page Dolby Labs blurb about the next generation audio formats and your AVR (pay particular attention to page 3):

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...HD_avrs_1.html

Eric

Great information from that link.

I'm in the market for a new receiver to upgrade from component video only switching to HDMI.

No reason not to go HDMI 1.3. My current receiver should continue working to this summer when new receivers start hitting the streets.

I will be getting one with Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio decoding just as a "what the heck" to have more possible options for whatever the future holds. I currently don't know how much of a premium the decoders of the 2 formats add to the overall retail price of the receivers but surely it can't be much more than adding HDMI switching, etc. The Sherwood Newcastle R-972 I'm currently looking at will be around $1500 in August. The precentage of that price for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD really doesn't factor into the purchase for me so why get another receiver without it.


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post #38 of 56 Old 01-15-2007, 10:06 AM
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Wesley,
Precisely. It's not worth waiting for if you need something immediately, nor is it worth paying a premium for. But if a receiver with HDMI V1.3 and the added audio codecs comes out in your time frame at a price that makes sense BASED ON ITS OTHER FEATURES, then there's also no reason NOT to buy it.

What's important, however, is that you understand the OTHER features in your receiver that you really WILL depend on. Check out the "future proof" receiver sticky thread at the top of this forum, and make sure you understand what your receiver will do with multi-channel, PCM-style, digital audio over HDMI, as well as high def HDMI video itself. These are the things that will really be important to your future enjoyment.
--Bob


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post #39 of 56 Old 01-19-2007, 06:55 PM
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In reply above I do have universal DVD player and I can output even SACD through firewire. DACs in my receiver are better than those in universal DVD player.

Dolby Digital or DD is 5.1 Dolby sound. There is no 2-channel DD. I have slim Toshiba DVD player for playing DivX content and I can have DD or DTS output via coax but there is no 6-channel analog audio output. You can only have 2-channel analog out with this player but since I have excellent receiver this is not a problem. I watch every movie in full surround sound either DD or DTS. I don't even have to mention how poor audio decoding is in $50 DVD player.
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post #40 of 56 Old 01-19-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenX View Post

Dolby Digital or DD is 5.1 Dolby sound. There is no 2-channel DD.

Dolby Digital is audio compression technology. It can be any number of channels from 1 to 5.1.

There is more 2-channel DD than 5.1 DD. Think of all the channels on digital cable and satellite dish that transmit in 2-channel. Even with DVDs (all DVDs, including everything from TV cooking shows to excersize videos) you'll find more 2-channel DD than 5.1.

Keep in mind that discrete 5.1-channel soundtracks are a recent development (recent = since the early 1990s) in the decades long history of movie sound.
Quote:


I don't even have to mention how poor audio decoding is in $50 DVD player.

Same decoding as a 30k surround processor. Data flagged for the left surround channel is sent to the left surround channel. The decoder in the expensive pre-pro doesn't send that information somehow "more" into the left surround channel than the decoder in the cheap player does.

It's everything after the format decoding step (things like D/A conversion and the analogue stage) that are responsible for differences in sound that you hear between devices.

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post #41 of 56 Old 01-21-2007, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayselle View Post

Depends on your time line to purchase. If you want a HDMI receiver now make sure you get a "level 6" receiver. They can receive up to 7.1 PCM and mix 5.1 PCM to 7.1 PCM.

Those audio formats are only found with HD DVD and Blu-ray discs.

How do I determine if a receiver is a "level 6"? How high do the levels go? Is there anywhere I can read about receiver levels and their requirements to be on one level or another? I have a Kenwood Sovereign 5900 AV Receiver. Any idea what level it might be? Just curious.
Thanks-
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post #42 of 56 Old 01-21-2007, 07:37 PM
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post #43 of 56 Old 01-26-2007, 07:48 PM
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I'm really sick and tired off various idiots in these forums that only mislead people. This applies to Sdurani. Dobly Digital is plain and simple 5.1 encoding that is displayed on your receiver every time. You don't get that display if there is Dolby Stereo, Dolby Surround and if you get Dolby Digital EX then EX is displayed. Dolby Digital was not used in 1990.
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post #44 of 56 Old 01-26-2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenX View Post

I'm really sick and tired off various idiots in these forums that only mislead people. This applies to Sdurani. Dobly Digital is plain and simple 5.1 encoding that is displayed on your receiver every time. You don't get that display if there is Dolby Stereo, Dolby Surround and if you get Dolby Digital EX then EX is displayed. Dolby Digital was not used in 1990.

Would you care to comment on the Wikipedia article regarding Dolby Digital?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital

A relevant portion of that article reads as follows:

==============================================

Channel configurations

Although most commonly associated with the 5.1 channel configuration, Dolby Digital allows a number of different channel selections. The full list of available options is:
Mono (Center only)
2-channel stereo (Left + Right), optionally carrying matrixed Dolby Surround
3-channel stereo (Left, Center, Right)
2-channel stereo with mono surround (Left, Right, Surround)
3-channel stereo with mono surround (Left, Center, Right, Surround)
4-channel quadrophonic (Left, Right, Left Surround, Right Surround)
5-channel surround (Left, Center, Right, Left Surround, Right Surround)
All of these configurations can optionally include the extra Low Frequency Effect (LFE) channel. The last two with stereo surrounds can optionally use Dolby Digital EX matrix encoding to add an extra Rear Surround channel.
Many Dolby Digital decoders are equipped with downmixing functionality to distribute encoded channels to available speakers. This includes such functions as playing surround information through the front speakers if surround speakers are unavailable, and distributing the center channel to left and right if no center speaker is available. When outputting to separate equipment over a 2-channel connection, a Dolby Digital decoder can optionally encode the output using Dolby Surround to preserve surround information.
The '.1' in 5.1, 7.1 etc. refers to the LFE channel, which is also a discrete channel.

==================================================

And of course many cable and satellite programs are in fact transmitted as Dolby Digital 2.0.
--Bob


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post #45 of 56 Old 01-26-2007, 08:07 PM
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or from Dolby themselves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolby.com View Post

Do all Dolby Digital programs provide 5.1 channels?

No. Dolby Digital soundtracks can provide anything from mono to full 5.1-channel surround sound. DVDs of movies can even carry multiple versions of the soundtrack that differ in number of channels. A disc might contain a 5.1-channel sound mix with the dialogue in one language, a two-channel mix encoded in Dolby Surround in another language, and a mono track with the director's comments or other supplementary information. The default soundtrack will vary from disc to disc, so always check the DVD's language menu for the choices offered

it's not like the dark ages where you have to run down to the library to do some research before mouthing off...

Boo!
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post #46 of 56 Old 01-26-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenX View Post

Dolby Digital was not used in 1990.

From the official history of Dolby Labs as found on their web site:

"Dolby AC-3, now known simply as Dolby Digital, was introduced in 1992; it was developed specifically for multichannel applications, including film sound and digital surround sound in the home."

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Keep in mind that discrete 5.1-channel soundtracks are a recent development (recent = since the early 1990s) in the decades long history of movie sound.

I see no error in what SDURANI wrote, although RAVENX is also correct.
--Bob


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post #47 of 56 Old 01-26-2007, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenX View Post

I'm really sick and tired off various idiots in these forums that only mislead people. This applies to Sdurani. Dobly Digital is plain and simple 5.1 encoding that is displayed on your receiver every time. You don't get that display if there is Dolby Stereo, Dolby Surround and if you get Dolby Digital EX then EX is displayed. Dolby Digital was not used in 1990.

Take a look at 2nd paragraph of the following link:
http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...y_digital.html

I would like to hear what you have to say about "various idiots" after reading that.
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post #48 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenX View Post

Dolby Digital was not used in 1990.

I never said it was. However, films like 'Days of Thunder', 'Dick Tracy', and 'Flatliners' were all released theatrically in 1990 with discrete 5.1-channel digital soundtracks using Cinema Digital Sound (CDS).

Sanjay

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post #49 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 10:16 AM
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I think I had something on-topic to say, but I've forgotten it now. I'm still in shock that some hundred-posts newbie calls Sanjay a misleading idiot, on a Dolby audio format topic no less.
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post #50 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 12:43 PM
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I actually LOL that somebody had the balls to call Sanjay one of those "various idiots." And then I laughed even harder when I compared the posts counts: 114 vs 7449. That's like me (a various idiot) teaching Tiger how to golf.
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post #51 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 01:17 PM
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Well at least he's willing to put his money where his mouth is.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9597667

I wonder if anyone has taken him up on his bet, yet?
--Bob


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post #52 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bing View Post

I actually LOL that somebody had the balls to call Sanjay one of those "various idiots." And then I laughed even harder when I compared the posts counts: 114 vs 7449. That's like me (a various idiot) teaching Tiger how to golf.

This always amuses me. So, "low post count = idiot that should be ignored"? For me, it's actually "high post count = too much time on computer". I don't know what the story is in this case but please don't equate number of posts to knowledge, credibility, etc.
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post #53 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
please don't equate number of posts to knowledge, credibility, etc.

I knew someone would call me out on this one. You're right, though. I shouldn't. But this is Sanjay we're talking about.
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post #54 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
I wonder if anyone has taken him up on his bet, yet?
--Bob

Hey guys! I took him up on his bet! Click on Bob's link to the thread to see my response and my enclosed images.
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post #55 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 05:10 PM
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RavenX....I post the same question here that I posted on the other thread.
Are you saying that all dolby digital encoded movies have to be 5.1 to get the dolby digital designation?
Because I have seen many DD 2.0, 3.0 and 4.0 DVDs, and from my conversations with a few other people..DD is an encodeing technic...like DTS.....by the way DTS has some disks that are less then 5.1 also.
Just in case you needed some proof.......here is a link: Robocop
look at the Dolby Digital logo and the 3 channel pattern next to it...just one quick search.

Another various idiot
RayJr

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post #56 of 56 Old 01-27-2007, 05:35 PM
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