"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1505 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #45121 of 72232 Old 10-31-2011, 11:39 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked: 227
I just saw XT32 graphs from another user and indeed the curves look very similar to rickardl's. Audyssey quietly changed the way they treat higher frequencies.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #45122 of 72232 Old 10-31-2011, 03:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
StevenLansing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Interesting,are they posted anywhere?
StevenLansing is offline  
post #45123 of 72232 Old 10-31-2011, 03:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,123
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 458 Post(s)
Liked: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenLansing View Post

Interesting,are they posted anywhere?

Markus, if these are my measurements, please feel free to post them along with your more detailed observations.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #45124 of 72232 Old 10-31-2011, 04:14 PM
Advanced Member
 
streetsmart88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I just saw XT32 graphs from another user and indeed the curves look very similar to rickardl's. Audyssey quietly changed the way they treat higher frequencies.

Would you mind expanding on this?

Mark
streetsmart88 is offline  
post #45125 of 72232 Old 10-31-2011, 11:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Jerry kindly provided measurements of his Denon 4311 and the left speaker preamp out looks like this:


Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #45126 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 06:22 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,372
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Liked: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Front projection allows acoustically transparent screen which allows speakers behind the image. Once you've done that, you are spoiled and visiting non-AT theaters is not enjoyable.

IMO.

Oh I’d love to go that route, Jeff. But my room is just not big enough for a PJ. I can accommodate a 65 inch screen though and that will be my next upgrade, once there is something as good as the Kuro. At my seating distance from the screen, that will give me a very good result.
kbarnes701 is online now  
post #45127 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 06:25 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,372
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Liked: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

Interesting how people who really care about good sound pay attention to video quality. I too have a Kuro (151).

Oh yes. I am sort of 'stuck' with my 50 inch Kuro - I would really like to move up to a 65 inch screen (the largest my room can accommodate) but there is nothing available in the UK that can match the Kuro for PQ. We don't get the Sharp Elites, about which I have read good reports, and the Panasonic range has serious 50Hz issues. I am just biding my time...
kbarnes701 is online now  
post #45128 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 08:13 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
zoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 10,051
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


Oh I'd love to go that route, Jeff. But my room is just not big enough for a PJ. I can accommodate a 65 inch screen though and that will be my next upgrade, once there is something as good as the Kuro. At my seating distance from the screen, that will give me a very good result.

I am in the same boat, 65-70 as good as my pro 510 and under 4k! My bottom line. I am ok to wait! But I am not desperate. My 60 inch Kuro really treats us great
zoro is offline  
post #45129 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 08:37 AM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 24,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Oh I'd love to go that route, Jeff. But my room is just not big enough for a PJ. I can accommodate a 65 inch screen though and that will be my next upgrade, once there is something as good as the Kuro. At my seating distance from the screen, that will give me a very good result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Oh yes. I am sort of 'stuck' with my 50 inch Kuro - I would really like to move up to a 65 inch screen (the largest my room can accommodate) but there is nothing available in the UK that can match the Kuro for PQ. We don't get the Sharp Elites, about which I have read good reports, and the Panasonic range has serious 50Hz issues. I am just biding my time...

Hi Keith,

Projectors can be used to throw 65" images. And you can mount a screen on the wall ... or don't use a screen at all, just paint the wall simple white or one of the specialty screen paints. I'd bet you could save a ton/tonne of money on a rig like this as compared to a flat panel.

If you want to play with different models and see how they work, Projector Central has a nifty calculator for each projector.
Rgds,
Jeff

BTW, tried to send this via PM, but -

"The following errors occurred with your submission:

kbarnes701 has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."
pepar is online now  
post #45130 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 08:59 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,372
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Liked: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

I am in the same boat, 65-70 as good as my pro 510 and under 4k! My bottom line. I am ok to wait! But I am not desperate. My 60 inch Kuro really treats us great

I really wish I had been able to get a 60 inch Kuro but I came late to the Kuro and they were all gone. I was lucky to find an ex-demo Kuro 50 inch at a dealer in a tiny little town in the UK. Like you, I can wait until the time is right...
kbarnes701 is online now  
post #45131 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 09:03 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,372
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Liked: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Hi Keith,

Projectors can be used to throw 65" images. And you can mount a screen on the wall ... or don't use a screen at all, just paint the wall simple white or one of the specialty screen paints. I'd bet you could save a ton/tonne of money on a rig like this as compared to a flat panel.

I am sure you are right. The main problem would be that the PJ would be right above my head! Literally. And if I can only go to 65 inch, I may as well just get a flat panel. I know it would cost more but that isn't the major factor in the decision. I'd like something with say a 90 inch picture - but then a) would I get a PJ with the right throw over a distance of only about 10 feet or so, and b) would the screen be too big anyway for that seating distance?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

If you want to play with different models and see how they work, Projector Central has a nifty calculator for each projector.
Rgds,
Jeff

That's useful. I'll try that. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

BTW, tried to send this via PM, but -

"The following errors occurred with your submission:

kbarnes701 has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

Sorry - emptied now. If we continue this at all, let's go to PM as we are way OT here.
kbarnes701 is online now  
post #45132 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 09:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Hi, did my first Audyssey setup (XT32) with 2 subs, Rel T3, and what i see after the setup is that sub1 is set 4.5 dB lower then sub 2.
Sub1 is on my right front and sub2 is behind me in the middle of the back wall.
Why is sub1 set 4.5 dB lower then sub2 ?

Thx
CBdicX is offline  
post #45133 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 09:44 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,372
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1081 Post(s)
Liked: 1524
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Hi, did my first Audyssey setup (XT32) with 2 subs, Rel T3, and what i see after the setup is that sub1 is set 4.5 dB lower then sub 2.
Sub1 is on my right front and sub2 is behind me in the middle of the back wall.
Why is sub1 set 4.5 dB lower then sub2 ?

Thx

Are the subs equidistant from the mic (position 1) during measurement or is one much closer? Is there anything between either of the subs - a couch for example?

As my friend Feri would say - is it possible to see a photo of your room?
kbarnes701 is online now  
post #45134 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 09:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Hi, did my first Audyssey setup (XT32) with 2 subs, Rel T3, and what i see after the setup is that sub1 is set 4.5 dB lower then sub 2. Sub1 is on my right front and sub2 is behind me in the middle of the back wall. Why is sub1 set 4.5 dB lower then sub2 ?

Apparently to compensate for the differences in room gain, resonances, or possibly the sub's internal amplifier gain.
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #45135 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 09:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
nezff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cajun Country
Posts: 4,277
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Hi, did my first Audyssey setup (XT32) with 2 subs, Rel T3, and what i see after the setup is that sub1 is set 4.5 dB lower then sub 2.
Sub1 is on my right front and sub2 is behind me in the middle of the back wall.
Why is sub1 set 4.5 dB lower then sub2 ?

Thx

did you get both subs at 75db at the beginning of xt32?
nezff is offline  
post #45136 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 09:59 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

did you get both subs at 75db at the beginning of xt32?

Yes i did, and even when i am in the speaker setup menu (Integra 70.2) there is a message that when you use two subs, sub1 must be set 4.5 dB lower then sub2.
Now Audyssey did this during the setup.
I do not understand why, what is the bennefit in lowering sub1 compared to sub2 ?
CBdicX is offline  
post #45137 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 10:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Roger Dressler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,454
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 366 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Yes i did, and even when i am in the speaker setup menu (Integra 70.2) there is a message that when you use two subs, sub1 must be set 4.5 dB lower then sub2.

Now Audyssey did this during the setup.

That's an interesting coincidence that it is 4.5 dB. That is exactly the value by which Dolby and THX offset the gain to a pair of subs vs. a single sub inside the bass management process. But it assumes both subs are the same and outputting equally.
Quote:


I do not understand why, what is the bennefit in lowering sub1 compared to sub2 ?

That is confusing. Makes no sense to me. Now if they said when using two subs to set them each 4.5 dB lower, (70 dB in round numbers) that would make more sense to me. Do you suppose something got lost in translation?
Roger Dressler is online now  
post #45138 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 10:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rickardl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Yes i did, and even when i am in the speaker setup menu (Integra 70.2) there is a message that when you use two subs, sub1 must be set 4.5 dB lower then sub2.
Now Audyssey did this during the setup.
I do not understand why, what is the bennefit in lowering sub1 compared to sub2 ?

Are you sure you read it correctly??
This guy says "subwoofers"... ie both:
Quote:
Originally Posted by donato View Post

Is anyone else using the 80.2 with two subwoofers? During the speaker level setup, the onscreen instructions say to set the subwoofers at 4.5db lower if using 2 subwoofers.

rickardl is offline  
post #45139 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 10:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

That's an interesting coincidence that it is 4.5 dB. That is exactly the value by which Dolby and THX offset the gain to a pair of subs vs. a single sub inside the bass management process. But it assumes both subs are the same and outputting equally.
That is confusing. Makes no sense to me. Now if they said when using two subs to set them each 4.5 dB lower, (70 dB in round numbers) that would make more sense to me. Do you suppose something got lost in translation?

Here you see a jpg of the speaker level setup menu with also text that one sub needs to be set 4.5 dB lower when 2 subs are used, and what you can see on the dB level Audyssey did.
This 4.5 dB lower was not set by me but by Audyssey, but on one sub, not both !!
LL
CBdicX is offline  
post #45140 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 10:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rickardl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Here you see a jpg of the speaker level setup menu with also text that one sub needs to be set 4.5 dB lower when 2 subs are used, and what you can see on the dB level Audyssey did.
This 4.5 dB lower was not set by me but by Audyssey, but on one sub, not both !!

If you select "Subwoofer 2" it will also say:
"Sets the volume level of the subwoofer 2. Please lower 4.5dB
when using dual subwoofer."
Should probably say subwoofers at the end.

Now, that is probably for any manual setup.

It seems Audyssey sets the level -4.5dB different but that is probably just
a coincidence and is due to the differenct placement of the subwoofers.
rickardl is offline  
post #45141 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 11:03 AM
AVS Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

If you select "Subwoofer 2" it will also say:
"Sets the volume level of the subwoofer 2. Please lower 4.5dB
when using dual subwoofer."
Should probably say subwoofers at the end.

Now, that is probably for any manual setup.

It seems Audyssey sets the level -4.5dB different but that is probably just
a coincidence and is due to the differenct placement of the subwoofers.

So if this level is set du that one sub1 is in a corner and sub 2 is in the middle of the back wall, do i still need to lower both subs by 4.5 dB ?
If i do, both will be very quiet, or is the 4.5 dB lower only needit if you do a manual setup and not through Audyssey ?
CBdicX is offline  
post #45142 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 11:09 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
Mike_WI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 2,507
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

Hi, did my first Audyssey setup (XT32) with 2 subs, Rel T3, and what i see after the setup is that sub1 is set 4.5 dB lower then sub 2.
Sub1 is on my right front and sub2 is behind me in the middle of the back wall.
Why is sub1 set 4.5 dB lower then sub2 ?

Thx

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Are the subs equidistant from the mic (position 1) during measurement or is one much closer? Is there anything between either of the subs - a couch for example?

As my friend Feri would say - is it possible to see a photo of your room?

It could be the gain switches on the subs are slightly different.
I don't know about the Rel T3, but often the gain switch are not that "fine" tuning.

EDIT:
Just noted all the similar responses above
Mike_WI is offline  
post #45143 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 11:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rickardl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

...
is the 4.5 dB lower only needit if you do a manual setup and not through Audyssey ?

Yes, the recommendation of setting the subwoofers trim level -4.5dB lower is
only when you are doing it manually with a SPL meter.
Like it says in the manual:
Quote:


If you’re using a handheld sound level meter, adjust the level of
each speaker so that it reads 75 dB SPL at the listening position,
measured with C-weighting and slow reading.

So that would be 70.5 dB SPL with two subwoofers.

BUT if you have run Audyssey, you should NOT do any manual adjustments of the subwoofer trim levels at all.
Audyssey has done it for you.
rickardl is offline  
post #45144 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 12:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
djbluemax1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: MI
Posts: 2,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 266
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBdicX View Post

So if this level is set du that one sub1 is in a corner and sub 2 is in the middle of the back wall, do i still need to lower both subs by 4.5 dB ?
If i do, both will be very quiet, or is the 4.5 dB lower only needit if you do a manual setup and not through Audyssey ?

Corner placement of subwoofers (and any speakers reproducing the lower octaves) tends to result in significantly greater room gain.

Sub1 is most likely set 4.5db lower because of this phenomenon. You're fine and do not need to make further adjustments unless you wish to try a sub crawl to optimize the locations of the subs.


Max
djbluemax1 is offline  
post #45145 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 02:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
StevenLansing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Markus, if these are my measurements, please feel free to post them along with your more detailed observations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Jerry kindly provided measurements of his Denon 4311 and the left speaker preamp out looks like this:


Thanks guys,

Well,that does look like the other posted graph.It does seem that XT32 is optimizing differently past the Schroeder frequency compared to the XT.
StevenLansing is offline  
post #45146 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 02:29 PM
Wireless member
 
pepar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
Posts: 24,994
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 151
Are we looking at line outs from different rooms/systems? If so, how can any comparisons be made and conclusions be drawn?
pepar is online now  
post #45147 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 02:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Yes, the recommendation of setting the subwoofers trim level -4.5dB lower is
only when you are doing it manually with a SPL meter.
Like it says in the manual:

So that would be 70.5 dB SPL with two subwoofers.

BUT if you have run Audyssey, you should NOT do any manual adjustments of the subwoofer trim levels at all.
Audyssey has done it for you.

Thx, this is clear
Indeed they should change subwoofer to subwooferS, and ad when set manual.
I can not find any of the stuff you say you find in your manual, the manual for the Integra 70.2 is a lot less on information then the Onkyo manuals
CBdicX is offline  
post #45148 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 02:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
CBdicX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,093
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Corner placement of subwoofers (and any speakers reproducing the lower octaves) tends to result in significantly greater room gain.

Sub1 is most likely set 4.5db lower because of this phenomenon. You're fine and do not need to make further adjustments unless you wish to try a sub crawl to optimize the locations of the subs.


Max

Thx
CBdicX is offline  
post #45149 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 02:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,071
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Are we looking at line outs from different rooms/systems? If so, how can any comparisons be made and conclusions be drawn?

Conclusions can be draw BECAUSE two different rooms (and AVRs) are compared. Both XT32 curves show similarities and they're both very different from anything we've seen from XT.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #45150 of 72232 Old 11-01-2011, 03:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,709
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 78 Post(s)
Liked: 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Conclusions can be draw BECAUSE two different rooms (and AVRs) are compared. Both XT32 curves show similarities and they're both very different from anything we've seen from XT.

You can draw conclusions but without proper context they may not mean anything. This is very interesting to follow, could use some more graphs.
primetimeguy is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H
Gear in this thread - Kht1005 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off