"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1677 - AVS Forum
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post #50281 of 71858 Old 02-11-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Here's Chris's take on the Harman comparision (from Facebook Audyssey Tech Talk): "In my view it's not a good idea to publish "results" if your technology is one of the ones being compared. It's a no-win situation. If your method comes out on top then you are accused of bias and if it doesn't then you're back to the drawing board."

Chris nailed that for sure, didn't he!?

No. Of course you can always be accused of bias, but that does not mean the accusation has merit. That's why a proper test and report describes all the conditions.
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post #50282 of 71858 Old 02-11-2012, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

No. Of course you can always be accused of bias, but that does not mean the accusation has merit. That's why a proper test and report describes all the conditions.

Roger, in today's world who would dare to say a given test and report is proper and describes all the conditions without being accused of bias again? Hundreds will jump on that poor guy! We live in a strange world, don't we? Frustration is becoming an everyday issue!
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post #50283 of 71858 Old 02-11-2012, 03:07 PM
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I think Feri is going off the deep end. What does that even mean?

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post #50284 of 71858 Old 02-11-2012, 04:28 PM
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Just noticed something odd, need the Audyssey experts to chime in.

I disconected some rear speakers about a week ago, ran Aud. without them in the chain. I've hooked my speakers back up, and even if I disable Audyssey, my receiver isn't recognizing the back speakers during the test tones.

This seem a little odd to you guys? I should be able to take advantage of the back chanells even without being dependent on running Audyssey right?
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post #50285 of 71858 Old 02-11-2012, 04:35 PM
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No, that's normal behavior. Part of auto setup is detecting your current speaker configuration.

Audyssey actually has nothing to do with it, other than that the speaker config test is part of that auto setup routine. When you ran Audyssey with the speakers disconnected, it configured your receiver correspondingly. Your receiver cannot magically know that you have connected additional speakers.

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post #50286 of 71858 Old 02-11-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think Feri is going off the deep end. What does that even mean?

Same as in politics (or any arena I guess), where the same set of facts can lead to opposite conclusions depending on your viewpoint.

Noah
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post #50287 of 71858 Old 02-11-2012, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Same as in politics (or any arena I guess), where the same set of facts can lead to opposite conclusions depending on your viewpoint.

That is something I have not seen. What I see are different groups of people working on different subsets of facts, and often a good dose of emotion thrown in to make up for any gaps resulting thereto.
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post #50288 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 04:31 AM
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Does Audyssey Hipass, for some reason i'm rolling off well before 10hz....
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post #50289 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 08:01 AM
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I was wondering if XT32 would EQ the main fronts as full range (go below 40Hz). When MultEQ XT detects a speaker as full range, it can only go as low as 40Hz as most AVRs (including Denon 4311) only allow 40Hz as the lowest cross over. I am not sure what Audyssey Mult EQ XT or XT32 does if I say sub=NO and set fronts as LARGE. Does it still EQ the mains from above 40Hz. I have large fronts and I like to use them for music without a sub and hence would like to EQ the fronts below 40Hz.

Another quick question. Does XT32 allow me to see the FR on a display without the pro option.

The new Antimode has the above options so I am trying to see which one will be a better value for me. I dont need any of the video or network features of an AVR, 9.2 etc.

Any feedback is appreciated.
Thanks
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post #50290 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:


When MultEQ XT detects a speaker as full range, it can only go as low as 40Hz as most AVRs (including Denon 4311) only allow 40Hz as the lowest cross over.

your premise is false -- MultEQ is not bound by the crossover set by the AVR. It will EQ any speaker down to the measured F3 point. This is true for all versions of Audyssey.

Quote:


Does XT32 allow me to see the FR on a display without the pro option.

again, nothing to do with the "version" of MultEQ; rather, this is a design decision by the mfgr. AFAIK, Denons will show a crude FR correction graph, Onkyos won't. None of them will be as "granular" nor as precise as what you see with the pro kit.

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post #50291 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Does Audyssey Hipass, for some reason i'm rolling off well before 10hz....

no, Audyssey doesn't hi-pass. Its correction will taper off at the F3 point but it will not roll off the freq response of the speaker... it just stops correcting.

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post #50292 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 08:31 AM
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I have an Integra dhc-80.2 coming soon. It has x32 on board. I bi amp my main l/r speakers. The lf amp will be driven by the rca outputs, the hf amp will be driven by the xlr outputs. Will x32 output tones to my lf and hf drivers in this configuration?

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post #50293 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 09:03 AM
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Can I use the a-405 from my denon avr-2308ci with my denon avr-2311ci?
Thanks,
Tin
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post #50294 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinng321 View Post

Can I use the a-405 from my denon avr-2308ci with my denon avr-2311ci?
Thanks,
Tin

Tin, each AVR comes with a mic + it's calibration file. Do your homework, please. Look up the type no. of the mic in the Manual bundled with the 2311. If it's a-405, then it's OK, if not it's NOT OK.
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post #50295 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinng321 View Post

Can I use the a-405 from my denon avr-2308ci with my denon avr-2311ci?
Thanks,
Tin

The answer already given to you when you asked in the other tread was correct. You can use it, but it won't give accurate results as the calibration profile is different vs the correct dm-a409 mic.

The "basics" like distance, level, etc will probably be ok but he EQ correction will be wrong.

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post #50296 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I have an Integra dhc-80.2 coming soon. It has x32 on board. I bi amp my main l/r speakers. The lf amp will be driven by the rca outputs, the hf amp will be driven by the xlr outputs. Will x32 output tones to my lf and hf drivers in this configuration?

Audyssey cannot "split" the signal if thats what you are asking. It will "ping" each speaker as a single unit, it has no way of knowing whether you are bi amping. I dont know what kind of complications that will cause in terms of the RCA/XLR split.

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post #50297 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

your premise is false -- MultEQ is not bound by the crossover set by the AVR. It will EQ any speaker down to the measured F3 point. This is true for all versions of Audyssey.



again, nothing to do with the "version" of MultEQ; rather, this is a design decision by the mfgr. AFAIK, Denons will show a crude FR correction graph, Onkyos won't. None of them will be as "granular" nor as precise as what you see with the pro kit.

Thanks for the clarification. When I run Audyssey on my Denon 3310, it says the fronts are full range but it does not say what the lowest measured frequency is. I also dont know what the definition of "full range" is in Denon's implementation of Audyssey. Since the Denon 3310 only allows a cross over as low as 40Hz, that is the lowest I can set. Now if I set my mains as LARGE and sub as NO, I have no idea how low Audyssey is EQ-ing the mains. This is what I like to find out.

I have not made an attempt to see the corrected curve on my Denon but it does show the corrections at the 9 frequencies it has for the manual EQ, from 63Hz to 16Hz. It also gives me the option to copy what it calls "base curve" to the manual EQ and tweak it but of course I cant tweak it with the Audyssey enabled.

So how do I find out what exactly is the lowest frequency as detected by Audyssey, of the mains. My speakers are definitely capable of going down to the low 30's. So I would like to put the sub to a separate movie system and do full range EQ on the mains. But I will never know how low Audyssey is EQing the mains as it just says "FULL RANGE".
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post #50298 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 09:56 AM
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Hey Batpig,

My mains+subs have a null of -7db@55hz. Subs alone have a -17db@55hz null.
Would you EQ the subs alone first with multiple subs filling in the -17db null, or fill in only -7db as the mains and sub have that size null combined....

Then run Audyssey....i corrected for the -17db because Audyssey calibrates subs alone...

Multiple subs freakin rule....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Audyssey cannot "split" the signal if thats what you are asking. It will "ping" each speaker as a single unit, it has no way of knowing whether you are bi amping. I dont know what kind of complications that will cause in terms of the RCA/XLR split.

The have different output sensitivities, so the output from the XLR's will be louder than from the RCA's. I read somewhere that it's a 12dB difference, but don't quote me on that one. If they can both be used at the same time, then some attenuators can be used to level out the difference.
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post #50300 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

That is something I have not seen. What I see are different groups of people working on different subsets of facts, and often a good dose of emotion thrown in to make up for any gaps resulting thereto.

Could be; I hope so.

Noah
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post #50301 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I have an Integra dhc-80.2 coming soon. It has x32 on board. I bi amp my main l/r speakers. The lf amp will be driven by the rca outputs, the hf amp will be driven by the xlr outputs. Will x32 output tones to my lf and hf drivers in this configuration?

Is there any way you could drive both the LF and the HF with the same type of connection?

Of course, some of us question the effectiveness of bi-amping to begin with.
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post #50302 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I'm not sure I understand what you are doing. Since bi-amping means using separate amps to drive the LF and HF, this means you need a total of 4 amps. Each amp on the AVR has RCA outputs, so why wouldn't you use the RCA outputs exclusively to accomplish your objective? Why mix RCA and XLR?

Of course, some of us question the effectiveness of bi-amping to begin with.

Bi amping can work very well with active crossovers, but you're right that it doesn't do much of anything if the person is using the passive internal crossovers.


Max
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post #50303 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I'm not sure I understand what you are doing. Since bi-amping means using separate amps to drive the LF and HF, this means you need a total of 4 amps. Each amp on the AVR has RCA outputs, so why wouldn't you use the RCA outputs exclusively to accomplish your objective? Why mix RCA and XLR?

Of course, some of us question the effectiveness of bi-amping to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Bi amping can work very well with active crossovers, but you're right that it doesn't do much of anything if the person is using the passive internal crossovers.

Max

Well, we don't question the value of bi-amping by the non-marketing-barstardized method.
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post #50304 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post

Thanks for the clarification. When I run Audyssey on my Denon 3310, it says the fronts are full range but it does not say what the lowest measured frequency is. I also dont know what the definition of "full range" is in Denon's implementation of Audyssey. Since the Denon 3310 only allows a cross over as low as 40Hz, that is the lowest I can set. Now if I set my mains as LARGE and sub as NO, I have no idea how low Audyssey is EQ-ing the mains. This is what I like to find out.

Unfortunately, I do not have a solution for you. According to Audyssey, they EQ down to the -3dB LF roll-off in the room but do not attenuate below that.

You can, you know, run the main speakers as LARGE and still say YES to the sub as this will still permit LFE to the sub as well as bass rerouted from surrounds, if you have them set to small. As for the bass extension of the main speakers, the only way to know that, as well as how Audyssey is EQ-ing them is to get an independent measurement system or AudysseyPro. Sorry.

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post #50305 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The software looks interesting .. you recommend it I'd guess?

Only if you want to improve your listening sensitivity.

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Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Only if you want to improve your listening sensitivity.

Thanks, I am downloading it now and looking at the manual right now. My guess is that, since user accounts and logins are used, their data collection is ongoing.

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post #50307 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Is there any way you could drive both the LF and the HF with the same type of connection?

Of course, some of us question the effectiveness of bi-amping to begin with.

The reason that I'm bi-amping is due to my mains being very inefficient. They use a 4' ribbon. I ran them off one amp but had an extra B&K amp lying around and found that bi-amping helped considerably.

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post #50308 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 06:11 PM
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OK guys,..... Need help understanding audyssey setup guide in regards to subwoofer setup. Little confused.

I have two subs now. Limited in my placement. Have the first one in back right corner. My newly purchased on is either going in back left corner of room, but must likely front left corner. My whole left side is open to kitchen. I will connect both subs with splitter to single output on onkyo 809 receiver.

With that said, when following multeq xt guide compiled by giomania, what's best method of calibration? Do I just play with each sub on and off until each measures 80 db while other is off? Shouldn't it be 75db?

Also, how do I play with sub volume in step 2-g? Am I trying to get trim level near zero? By doing this first as outlined, why do I have to then play with spl levels as outlined in step 2?
I am thinking now, as I write this, that the avr automatically does this. If so, makes sense, and sorry for seeming like a newb!

thanks all and I really appreciate all advice. If anyone thinks second sub is not good idea, please chime in as well. Both are polk psw125's.
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post #50309 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjf_uk View Post

The have different output sensitivities, so the output from the XLR's will be louder than from the RCA's. I read somewhere that it's a 12dB difference, but don't quote me on that one. If they can both be used at the same time, then some attenuators can be used to level out the difference.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for pointing out that "small" fact as i just bought an Integra DHC-80.2 processor and after using its built-in test tones and getting the results i decided to check them separately with a Behringer 8000 microphone placed on the same spot connected to a 1/3 octave RTA, obviously without using any equalization or Audyssey MultEQ XT32; I was surprised that levels for each speaker were well below the recommended 75 db, barely reaching 70 db !
I also noticed that the gain needed to bring my L/R front speakers to that 70 db level had to be boosted to the maximum +12 db trim offered by the Integra 80.2, whereas none of the other speakers needed more than 4.5 db gain, so i surmised that the reason for that in-room measurement figure of only 70 db was due to the fact that the Integra 80.2 does not offer enough gain to bring all my speakers to that recommended 75 db level.
So, am i correct in assuming that if i use the L/R front speakers XLR outputs that have a maximum of 11 volt output should take care of my problem, instead of using the RCA outputs that have only a maximum of 5.5 volt output ?
This is the second time i've purchased Onkyo/Integra processors and i ran into this problem; I understand that having a gain level trim of -12 db to +12 db should be enough for most circumstances, but not all cases as i found out, and i feel that manufacturers should offer a wider range than just 24 db, at least 40 db.
Has anyone else ran into a similar problem or is my situation somewhat unique ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcos
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post #50310 of 71858 Old 02-12-2012, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Unfortunately, I do not have a solution for you. According to Audyssey, they EQ down to the -3dB LF roll-off in the room but do not attenuate below that.

You can, you know, run the main speakers as LARGE and still say YES to the sub as this will still permit LFE to the sub as well as bass rerouted from surrounds, if you have them set to small. As for the bass extension of the main speakers, the only way to know that, as well as how Audyssey is EQ-ing them is to get an independent measurement system or AudysseyPro. Sorry.


Please note that my main goal is to do full range EQ of the mains for 2ch music. So LFE does not come into play.

Now the question is, what is that -3db roll off in the room. I am sure they are measuring it if they have to know what it is. They dont have to make the user buy an additional product like the pro kit to let the user know what that low end is. They could do this as they have been monopolizing the market. Now with the new Antimode dual core, things would change.

Like I said, my main goal is to use just the mains for 2ch music and do a full range EQ. The new Antimode dual core claims to do this for the user given range. That is the kind of transparency I am looking for. So I wanted to know if XT32 can do it, before I spend the money on the Denon 4311. If I have to buy the pro kit on top of Xt32, then the Antimode dual core is certainly a better value for my money.
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