"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 1780 - AVS Forum
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post #53371 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tandy1000rl View Post

Study all of page 28 here (page 32 of the pdf).

Thanks for posting that link. In the manual it says this:

"The calibration curve for your microphone is stored on your MultEQ Pro application CD. The absolute sensitivity, including the exact gain of each individual Calibrated Preamplifier, is included in the correction curve, ensuring that the trims reported by MultEQ Pro will result in reference SPL playback level."

This raises a question for me. The calibration curve also includes the exact gain of each individual calibrated preamplifier, OK. But my preamplifier had to be returned to Audyssey. It also didn’t have the mic serial number stuck on to it like everyone else's does. So, if I was given a new preamp, then should I not also have been given a new calibration curve to match that new preamp (and the mic) as stated above? You can perhaps understand why my confidence is ebbing slowly away....

Also, what a great manual that is for Denon. There are NO printed instructions at all for the Onkyo 5509/Integra 80.3 and the help in the s/w is wrong. It says, for example, that the preamp needs to be plugged into the Aux 2 Left input on the back of the 5509. It doesn't. It's plugged into the PC Left Input. If anyone follows the instructions, it won’t work.

EDIT: Apologies - this would have been better posted in the Pro thread. I will take it there.
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post #53372 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 04:07 AM
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FAQ UPDATE.

The answer to the recently asked question:

"What is the meaning of "Audyssey corrects each speaker down to its measured -3dB point"?"

has been added to the FAQ here:

2. I often see advice to change the crossovers from what Audyssey has set to 80Hz. Why is this? Has Audyssey ‘got it wrong’? (click here)
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post #53373 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 04:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tandy1000rl View Post


I have a large (5000 cubic foot) room. My mic is confirmed good, speakers are fine and well-positioned, and measuring positions follow the recommended guidelines. Is it possible that my calibration using the Audyssey Reference curve baked into my AVR can overemphasize the treble in my large room due to an incorrect balance between direct and reflected sound in the high frequencies? Should the target curve change as room size increases beyond that of a "typical" living room?

That is also the question I believe should have been asked of Chris. That question is designed to get a good and meaningful reply to the issue raised.
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post #53374 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hclarkx View Post



I haven't kept close track, but haven't the several incidences of sub alignment we've seen here been with Onkyo receivers? Has it happened with a Denon? I'm not pointing any fingers here, just looking to get at the root of the problem. If it's common to one receiver brand, maybe some questions should go to that manufacturer. Even if it's an Audyssey problem, that might be the place to go to get the problem addressed.

Not exclusively affecting Onkyo, Harrison. I had this issue with my Denon 4311.
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post #53375 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Some people (not directed at you) will defend Audyssey to the death it seems and feel it can do now wrong, where others are more critical. I hope that any criticisms I put forward are seen in a constructive, not destructive, light.


Honestly, that is the main reason that I have pulled back from posting in this thread. I had a couple of complaints about Audyssey XT, as well as DEQ, and I tried to get opinions on them, and while some posters would help, other, more prominent members would say it had to be my gear, my set up, or my room, and it could never, ever, be just Audyssey.

I like Audyssey XT and what it has done to my system, but it is far from perfect. The highs are too high, and according to several SPL meters, the trims were off by more than 3db. The center trim was way off. While the trims were easy enough to correct, the high frequency issue, is a bit harder. I am not a newbie in this hobby, and I think Audyssey is a nice piece of software, but some forum members need to learn and understand, that it is not perfect. It is not always right, and it's not always the end users fault when Audyssey stumbles.

Yes, ask the poster about his or her setup, and make sure they have read and followed Audyssey's calibration guidelines, but don't turn a deaf ear to the many complaints regarding Audyssey by people that are enthusiasts, and have just a little bit of experience.

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post #53376 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 09:22 AM
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I'm sure most of us like to think we are unbiased and can assist everyone, but we all tend to be here on this thread because we are very happy with what MultEQ in it's various flavors does to our rooms/systems. (In my case, I am giddy. ) Lately, the "big room" issue has come up for which there is no real solution with the consumer version of MultEQ. Otherwise, once a defective mic has been ruled out, I can't recall the last time a problem with high frequencies wasn't from some error on the part of the user or something with the speakers and/or how/where they are located in the room.

I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.

Jeff
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post #53377 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I'm sure most of us like to think we are unbiased and can assist everyone, but we all tend to be here on this thread because we are very happy with what MultEQ in it's various flavors does to our rooms/systems. (In my case, I am giddy. ) Lately, the "big room" issue has come up for which there is no real solution with the consumer version of MultEQ. Otherwise, once a defective mic has been ruled out, I can't recall the last time a problem with high frequencies wasn't from some error on the part of the user or something with the speakers and/or how/where they are located in the room.

I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.

Jeff

+1, and everyone is usually willing to help out the poster and get to the botom of the issue at hand.

Mark
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post #53378 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tandy1000rl View Post

Study all of page 28 here (page 32 of the pdf). If you still don't believe what is written there, then here's the question to ask Chris if you're so inclined:

I have a large (5000 cubic foot) room. My mic is confirmed good, speakers are fine and well-positioned, and measuring positions follow the recommended guidelines. Is it possible that my calibration using the Audyssey Reference curve baked into my AVR can overemphasize the treble in my large room due to an incorrect balance between direct and reflected sound in the high frequencies? Should the target curve change as room size increases beyond that of a "typical" living room?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

That is also the question I believe should have been asked of Chris. That question is designed to get a good and meaningful reply to the issue raised.

+1, I would re-pose the question, but not in the same Ask Audyssey "thread", or whatever those things are. Maybe someone else should ask a generalized version of the question?

Mark
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post #53379 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

+1, I would re-pose the question, but not in the same Ask Audyssey "thread", or whatever those things are. Maybe someone else should ask a generalized version of the question?

Mark

Yes, if you lob a big fat one down the center of the plate, Chris will knock it out of the park.
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post #53380 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

+1, and everyone is usually willing to help out the poster and get to the botom of the issue at hand.

Mark

Another +1. And the more a poster is willing to share of his current problem the smoother and more efficient the "interactive assistance" will be. Final result: everybody learns something.
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post #53381 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Yes, if you lob a big fat one down the center of the plate, Chris will knock it out of the park.

LOL!

My point was that if you continue with the original "thread", Chris may already be on the defensive. The question is legitimate, as the Pro manual linked states there are different curves for different sized rooms.

Mark
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post #53382 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

LOL!

My point was that if you continue with the original "thread", Chris may already be on the defensive. The question is legitimate, as the Pro manual linked states there are different curves for different sized rooms.

Mark

Now Guys, who's afraid to ask Audyssey? Chris won't bite anyone!!! LOL
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post #53383 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post


I like Audyssey XT and what it has done to my system, but it is far from perfect. The highs are too high, and according to several SPL meters, the trims were off by more than 3db. The center trim was way off.

It is very unusual for Audyssey to set the trims wrongly. SPL meters are not as accurate as Audyssey's mic and processing algorithms so I wouldn't rely on them for setting absolute levels. When I use the calibrated mic that comes with my OmniMic kit, my levels are reported by both Audyssey and OM to be near as dammit the same, for example. Notwithstanding what you say about the advice given to you before being biased towards Audyssey, I would tend to look elsewhere for problems affecting the trims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

While the trims were easy enough to correct, the high frequency issue, is a bit harder. I am not a newbie in this hobby, and I think Audyssey is a nice piece of software, but some forum members need to learn and understand, that it is not perfect. It is not always right, and it's not always the end users fault when Audyssey stumbles.

I agree with you. There could be a number of reasons for over-bright HF, including Audyssey 'getting it wrong'. But if Audyssey is getting it wrong, then there must be a reason for that - Audyssey isn't designed to create overly bright HF, of course. The usual reasons would be poor mic placement or technique, poor mic positioning wrt to walls, furnishings etc. The fact is that for most Audyssey users, their HF is good, so this would point to Audyssey problems being in a minority. That is not to say it is not possible, but what would you think would be the reason Audyssey is 'singling you out' for an overly bright HF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Yes, ask the poster about his or her setup, and make sure they have read and followed Audyssey's calibration guidelines, but don't turn a deaf ear to the many complaints regarding Audyssey by people that are enthusiasts, and have just a little bit of experience.

Many complaints? Eliminating those that are caused by user error etc, do you think there are 'many complaints'? When used correctly Audyssey does seem to do a pretty good job for most people, most of the time.

I guess you'll be thinking I am in the category of person you described in your opening paragraph I can see why you might think that, but truly, I am not. I accept that Audyssey is imperfect, like anything else. But I also am certain that it does what it is meant to do when used correctly and that, in almost every case where a user has a poor result, this can be fixed with help and advice from more experienced users. There will always be exceptions, but that is what they are IMO - exceptions.

Now, back to your HF... I assume from what you say that if you play some content with an extended HF, and you flip between Audyssey ON and Audyssey OFF, you hear the overly bright HF come and go as you switch? IOW, you are sure that it is the application of Audyssey's filters that is causing the problem?

If this is the case, then we would need to consider the speaker placement in the room, the amount of toe-in used, the height of the tweeters in relation to the height of the mic when measuring, the grazing angle of the mic, the speakers' off-axis dispersion characteristics and so on. A photo of your room, showing the speakers in place, would be helpful as a starting point to solving the problem. Also, are you using DEQ, and if so are you using RLO? What levels do you usually listen at, and is the HF always too bright or only when you are pushing the system hard? If you can answer those questions, then we can start the ball rolling to improve your SQ.
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post #53384 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I'm sure most of us like to think we are unbiased and can assist everyone, but we all tend to be here on this thread because we are very happy with what MultEQ in it's various flavors does to our rooms/systems. (In my case, I am giddy. ) Lately, the "big room" issue has come up for which there is no real solution with the consumer version of MultEQ. Otherwise, once a defective mic has been ruled out, I can't recall the last time a problem with high frequencies wasn't from some error on the part of the user or something with the speakers and/or how/where they are located in the room.

I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.

Jeff

My recollection too.
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post #53385 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I'm sure most of us like to think we are unbiased and can assist everyone, but we all tend to be here on this thread because we are very happy with what MultEQ in it's various flavors does to our rooms/systems. (In my case, I am giddy. ) Lately, the "big room" issue has come up for which there is no real solution with the consumer version of MultEQ. Otherwise, once a defective mic has been ruled out, I can't recall the last time a problem with high frequencies wasn't from some error on the part of the user or something with the speakers and/or how/where they are located in the room.

I could be wrong, but that's my recollection.

Jeff

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

My recollection too.

'The Golden Mean'.

Yes, for the most part, the regular contributors in this thread are here because we all think that Audyssey generally speaking, is an incredible tool and produces pretty amazing results (most of the time) when used and optimized properly, but most of us are (or have become aware) that there are some circumstances that can trip it up.

Unfortunately, there will always be folks who tend to stray towards one extreme or the other, with some folks insisting up and down that Audyssey is terrible and that it has screwed up the sound in their system. And despite numerous attempts by more seasoned users to provide assistance, for whatever reason, the folks experiencing problems will refuse to provide simple information (like photos of the room and setup) that could potentially greatly aid in identifying potentially overlooked problems, while continuing to insist that Audyssey is terrible.

Then you have the other extreme who believe that ANY time a user is dissatisfied with the results, it MUST be their fault or faulty equipment.

The simple truth is, Audyssey is VERY good at what it does when used properly, BUT there are undoubtedly situations where it isn't 'perfect' as some would seem to believe, in spite of data detailing areas that potentially trip it up.

Personally, Audyssey has impressed me enough that I won't buy another AVR or pre-pro without some form of room correction that is at least as effective as XT32, but I'm certainly not averse to trying other systems like Trinnov or Lyngdorf Room Perfect to see how they compare, and I'm under no delusions that Audyssey is a guaranteed set-it-and-forget-it exercise. It has flaws and weaknesses. Everything does, so I double check it with my own measurements. If a little tweaking is required, I have the means to confirm the differences produced, and the results obtained, and I'm happy with the way my setup sounds now.

'The Golden Mean'.


Max
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post #53386 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Now Guys, who's afraid to ask Audyssey? Chris won't bite anyone!!! LOL

But it is sensitive subject to discuss in a public forum, because it's basically asking him to admit that Audyssey-equipped receivers will not perform as well in larger rooms by design, with no way to correct for that other than paying more money (assuming one's receiver even supports Pro).

That's why I do not volunteer to ask the question...I think it will put him in a tough spot to answer. That's not what we're trying to do, we're just trying to learn. However, I think the linked user manual tells us all that we need to know on the topic.

Just my 2 cents...
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post #53387 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 12:27 PM
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well i'll ask .. it's a legitimate question.
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post #53388 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

well i'll ask .. it's a legitimate question.

I definitely want to hear his answer, but I'm still too chicken to ask him the question! ;-)

Will be curious if we get the engineer or business person reply...
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post #53389 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 01:11 PM
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well my request went in as a tech support question and not on one of the public "threads" if that makes any difference in how they reply.

do you have a Tandy 1000? i learned basic on one of those.
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post #53390 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 01:14 PM
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I can not save a calibration . The FAQ are for a Onkyo, I have an integra DHC 80.2 and it will not work . Anyone else try this with a 80.2
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post #53391 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

I can not save a calibration . The FAQ are for a Onkyo, I have an integra DHC 80.2 and it will not work . Anyone else try this with a 80.2

You mean if you follow this procedure:

Store and Recall settings - Onkyo
To STORE:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR (not the remote)
2. Then push Enter on the AVR
3. Unit displays 'Setup store?"
4. Still holding Setup, push Enter again
5. Unit displays "Setup storing'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'
All your settings are now stored.
To RECALL:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR
2. Then push Return
3. Unit displays 'Setup recall?'
4. Still holding Setup, push Return again
5. Unit displays 'Setup recalling'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'
Unit then powers off into standby mode. Switch unit back on, your settings have been restored.

... you don't find that it stores? What does it say on the front display of your 80.2 when you do the Store part described above?


Can someone else with an Integra please try the Store and Recall procedure? If it doesn't work on Integras I can mention this in the FAQ to avoid further confusion. As the Integras and Onkyos are usually functionally identical, it surprises me it doesn't work.
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Hi everyone, I'm a newbee at audyssey xt32. I just upgraded (thats a big maybe!) to the denon 4311 from the denon 3300. I got a great close out price on a denon 4311 ($800) from bestbuy, that I couldn't pass up. This is my new problem, after running XT32 my system sounds like crap!
Everything sounded great before, nothing was changed, just the denon 3300 to the 4311. The 4311 sounded sweet at first, in 5.1 just like the 3300. Than I ran the set up audyssey xt32 in the denons menu. Now its sounds like a cheap stereo system. I followed the manual with the mike placements. I tried 5 times and still audyssey xt32 sounds like crap. So whats the secret to audyssey xt32 ???
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post #53393 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

You mean if you follow this procedure:

Store and Recall settings - Onkyo
To STORE:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR (not the remote)
2. Then push Enter on the AVR
3. Unit displays 'Setup store?"
4. Still holding Setup, push Enter again
5. Unit displays "Setup storing'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'
All your settings are now stored.
To RECALL:
1. Push and hold Setup on the AVR
2. Then push Return
3. Unit displays 'Setup recall?'
4. Still holding Setup, push Return again
5. Unit displays 'Setup recalling'
6. Unit then displays 'Complete'
Unit then powers off into standby mode. Switch unit back on, your settings have been restored.

... you don't find that it stores? What does it say on the front display of your 80.2 when you do the Store part described above?


Can someone else with an Integra please try the Store and Recall procedure? If it doesn't work on Integras I can mention this in the FAQ to avoid further confusion. As the Integras and Onkyos are usually functionally identical, it surprises me it doesn't work.

Yes , this is what I did, with the unit on, and off , since it did not say what the unit needed to be, on or off.Thanks
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post #53394 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beergut99 View Post

Hi everyone, I'm a newbee at audyssey xt32. I just upgraded (thats a big maybe!) to the denon 4311 from the denon 3300. I got a great close out price on a denon 4311 ($800) from bestbuy, that I couldn't pass up. This is my new problem, after running XT32 my system sounds like crap!
Everything sounded great before, nothing was changed, just the denon 3300 to the 4311. The 4311 sounded sweet at first, in 5.1 just like the 3300. Than I ran the set up audyssey xt32 in the denons menu. Now its sounds like a cheap stereo system. I followed the manual with the mike placements. I tried 5 times and still audyssey xt32 sounds like crap. So whats the secret to audyssey xt32 ???

Make ure that dynamic volume is off. I did not have the problem with my lower end Denon, IIRC, but folks have reported that some receivers default to DynVol on at highest strength after running Audyssey. That will indeed sound squashed. It's great if you're listening very quietly, and I'll use it sometimes to put background music at a low level without haveing periods of apparent silence, but it's not good for "normal" listening, onaccounta that's not what it's for.
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post #53395 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beergut99 View Post

Hi everyone, I'm a newbee at audyssey xt32. I just upgraded (thats a big maybe!) to the denon 4311 from the denon 3300. I got a great close out price on a denon 4311 ($800) from bestbuy, that I couldn't pass up. This is my new problem, after running XT32 my system sounds like crap!
Everything sounded great before, nothing was changed, just the denon 3300 to the 4311. The 4311 sounded sweet at first, in 5.1 just like the 3300. Than I ran the set up audyssey xt32 in the denons menu. Now its sounds like a cheap stereo system. I followed the manual with the mike placements. I tried 5 times and still audyssey xt32 sounds like crap. So whats the secret to audyssey xt32 ???

Hi - welcome to the Official Audyssey Thread. Your 4311 most definitely should not sound like cr%p. Could I suggest you read all the way through the FAQ (I know it's a long job, but it may be worth it) and then come back with any specifics? The FAQ is linked in my signature.

Could you also be more specific about the sound you are getting? What is it exactly that is making it sound so bad to your ears? Is the bass sloppy and ill-defined, is the treble screechy or jarring to your ears? Is the balance of all the frequencies 'off' somehow? Are you getting poor imaging, unable to pinpoint where sounds are in the soundstage created in your room? Is the envelopment between front and surround speakers lacking - do you get a 'hole in the middle' with sound at the front and at the rear but nothing in between?

I know you say you changed nothing other than inserting the 4311 into the system to replace your old unit, Are you 100% sure of that? If so, have you double checked all the wiring?

Can you tell us the components that make up the rest of your system? A photo of the room would be good - showing all the speakers. subs etc in place. Just a cellphone pic would be fine if you don't have a camera handy.

Would you please read the '101' in the FAQ and confirm that all of the points raised there have been strictly followed? You'll find that section here:

** First Time Audyssey User? Follow This Audyssey 101! **
** First Time Audyssey User? Follow This Audyssey 101! **

There is something wrong somewhere - the 4311 is a very good unit and it should sound superb. You mention that it sounds good if you switch Audyssey off - have you switched between Audyssey on and off and observed the differences? We need to rule out that you do not have a faulty unit - why was it so cheap at $800? They usually retail at about $1,300 street.

Can you confirm that the Audyssey mic that came with your 4311 is a thing shaped like the Eiffel Tower and that the box it came in has AC1MH stamped on it (NOTE to Denon owners - is that the correct code for a Denon Audyssey Mic)? It may be that you have the wrong mic or a faulty mic - I am suspicious that they sold the unit for $500 less than it can be bought elsewhere. Is it new or was it a demo unit?

Sorry for all the questions but there's no way to start troubleshooting until we have more info from you.
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post #53396 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Make ure that dynamic volume is off. I did not have the problem with my lower end Denon, IIRC, but folks have reported that some receivers default to DynVol on at highest strength after running Audyssey. That will indeed sound squashed. It's great if you're listening very quietly, and I'll use it sometimes to put background music at a low level without haveing periods of apparent silence, but it's not good for "normal" listening, onaccounta that's not what it's for.

What are you saying, that Audyssey has levels , bad , really bad, I can't believe its sounds thats bad. I'm not sure whats going on with this setup, I'm sure it's me at error, but it shouldn't be that hard, and I'm no dummy
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post #53397 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 02:00 PM
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Yes , this is what I did, with the unit on, and off , since it did not say what the unit needed to be, on or off.Thanks

OK - the unit should be on. I will amend the FAQ to make that clear. We'll need to wait for confirmation from another Integra owner to establish that it isn't just your unit.
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post #53398 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by beergut99 View Post

Hi everyone, I'm a newbee at audyssey xt32. I just upgraded (thats a big maybe!) to the denon 4311 from the denon 3300. I got a great close out price on a denon 4311 ($800) from bestbuy, that I couldn't pass up. This is my new problem, after running XT32 my system sounds like crap!
Everything sounded great before, nothing was changed, just the denon 3300 to the 4311. The 4311 sounded sweet at first, in 5.1 just like the 3300. Than I ran the set up audyssey xt32 in the denons menu. Now its sounds like a cheap stereo system. I followed the manual with the mike placements. I tried 5 times and still audyssey xt32 sounds like crap. So whats the secret to audyssey xt32 ???

Is there a way you can get independent measurement using REW or similar software?

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post #53399 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 02:19 PM
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What are you saying, that Audyssey has levels , bad , really bad, I can't believe its sounds thats bad. I'm not sure whats going on with this setup, I'm sure it's me at error, but it shouldn't be that hard, and I'm no dummy

No, what he is saying is have you checked that Dynamic Volume wasn't automatically enabled at its highest setting? Have you?
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post #53400 of 71856 Old 05-02-2012, 02:21 PM
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For all the complaints about Audyssey here, I wonder how often Audyssey gets things right and the problems described here are the exception. All I know from personal experience is that my Audyssey equipment/software improved my SQ significantly and added no problems of its own.


I completely agree!

When I first installed my 80.1 with XT I never even heard of the AVS Forum, let alone this Audyssey thread. I initially performed the Audyssey calibration according to the sparse directions that came in the Integra owners manual. My initial impression was that while Audyssey was a definite improvement over no REQ at all my results were somewhat lacking.

So I performed a Google search and found this forum and this thread. This was about two years ago, when Chris was still on the thread and answering questions on a daily basis.

I have to say that every time questions were asked and answered I gleaned a little more information that helped me understand Audyssey, and more importantly to me, helped me to achieve a better Audyssey calibration. I went from placing the Audyssey mic on cardboard cartons, to an inexpensive Sony camera tripod that I found at Wally World, to the popular Amazon.com boom & mic stand (with an additional telescoping boom) that lots of us are now using. I also learned the benefits of isolating the feet of my mic stand from the hardwood floor in my HT room using a few pieces of foam from an Auralex Mo-pad kit. I discovered the importance of proper mic positioning. I learned about tweaking the distances for my 2 subs and my height speakers. I discovered DEQ and learned how to use the RLO's. All in all there have been some invaluable lessons learned here and I'm happy that I've stuck around, even though it appears that there have been some negative posters on the thread whose only purpose seems to be to argue, find fault, and otherwise attempt to spoil a very helpful and positive thread.

At this point in my journey I would never have a HT system without Audyssey (or something very similar) and am seriously contemplating an upgrade to XT32 (or its next iteration) as my next system improvement.

I'd like to add that I've never experienced the HF "brightness" in my 3400 cu ft room (with three open hallways to additional space), so I have a hard time believing that this is an endemic "problem". Perhaps there's quite a bit more in the respondents system (or setup) than meets the eye? Also, the question was raised about why Audyssey had several different curves available in its pro form while its consumer version only offered one curve. Could it be possible that the individual AVR's or Pre-Pro's just do not posess enough internal computing power to allow multiple curves? Remember that the pro setup makes use of the vastly superior ability of the users external laptop.

All in all, the question remains - are we better off with Audyssey than without it? I say - HELL YES

Call me a fanboy if you will,
SB
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