"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 191 - AVS Forum
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post #5701 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:49 AM
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Updated: 7 May 2012

Please download the Word document below.

The Audyssey Setup Guide is a collaborative effort, so if you see anything that needs to be changed or updated, let me know.

Mark


Notes on attached files
The "Audyssey Setup Guide..." is what probably brought you to this post in the first place.

The "Audyssey DSX Guidance" document consolidates items discussed in the Official Audyssey Thread regarding certain aspects of the Audyssey DSX technology.

The "Audyssey DSX Surround Speaker Placement Theory" document is a discussion concerning Audyssey's recommended surround speaker placement when utilizing Audyssey DSX.

The "Optimizing Surround Speaker Distance Adjustments" document details a procedure to optimize surround speaker distance settings.

The "Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions" document details a procedure to optimize the subwoofer / satellite speaker frequency response blend in the crossover region. Please note this procedure requires acoustic measurement tools and software.

 

The "Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions & Examples" document  includes the instructions in the document above, as well as numerous forum posts with example graphs.
 

 

Audyssey Setup Guide (2012-05-07).doc 169k . file

 

 

 

 

 

Audyssey DSX Guidance.doc 45.5k . file

 

 

 

 

 

Audyssey DSX Surround Speaker Placement Theory.doc 243k . file

 

 

 

 

 

Optimizing Surround Speaker Distance Adjustments.doc 91.5k . file

 

 

 

 

Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions (Requires Acoustic Measurement Tools).doc 47.5k . file

 

 

 

 

Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions & Examples (Requires Acoustic Measurement Tools).doc 1,688k .doc file
Attached Files
File Type: doc Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions (Requires Acoustic Measurement Tools).doc (47.5 KB, 2580 views)
File Type: doc Optimizing Surround Speaker Distance Adjustments.doc (91.5 KB, 3127 views)
File Type: doc Audyssey DSX Surround Speaker Placement Theory.doc (243.0 KB, 2484 views)
File Type: doc Audyssey DSX Guidance.doc (45.5 KB, 2540 views)
File Type: doc Audyssey Setup Guide (2012-05-07).doc (169.0 KB, 10140 views)
File Type: doc Subwoofer Distance Tweak Instructions & Examples (Requires Acoustic Measurement Tools).doc (1.65 MB, 2278 views)
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post #5702 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Indy View Post

Gotcha, I'll run audyssey again and see how it sounds after a few days as I do believe my hearing thus far has been skewed due to not actually having good speakers before (only HTIB until now), not having ever properly calibrated before, and having speaker levels turned way up and out of sync with one another. One last thing, I won't touch the level calibration done to the subwoofer by audyssey but you are saying not to touch the actual volume knob that is on the sub either? I figured if I wasn't happy with the bass output I could try turning the gain up and to see if it helped. I keep reading that listening at reference level will/can damage your hearing is this true? I have been listening to my reciever at volume -24db to -27db before audyssey corrections so after it lowers all my speakers levels like it does to -10db or so I would need to turn the volume to -14db to equal the volume I was listening at before?

It's not a "volume knob" on the sub, it's a gain control that enables you to match levels with the other speakers. With an AV receiver, the receiver matches the levels with the other speakers with it's settings so the idea is to let the receiver match the levels and not touch the sub's gain control after the setup. The level settings for the other speakers are gain controls too. The setup process determines what gain level is appropriate for each speaker in order for a signal of the same strength sent to each speaker to result in you hearing a sound at the same level from each speaker at the primary listening position. The volume of the sub is controlled by the receiver's volume knob, as is the volume of the other speakers. Differences in level of sound from different speakers occur when the signal for the channels in the soundtrack are different and that's a deliberate part of the soundtrack.

Turning up the gain on the sub is tricky. If you have things set so the sub is only handling sound from the LFE channel then you're changing the balance of 1 channel relative to the rest of the channels. If the sub is also handling low frequencies for the other channels, you're also changing the frequency balance within each other channel by changing the level of bass frequencies below the crossover relative to the frequencies above the crossover.

In many ways you're better off changing the level of bass by using the receiver's tone controls and playing with the bass control. It will operate across a wider range which can be a problem, but it has more effect at lower frequencies and drops off as frequency increases so its effect tends to blend into the overall sound relatively smoothly, and you change all channels equally which is a plus. The drawback is that the effect of the bass tone control may extend a little higher in frequency than you like. A lot depends on how its effect is tapered but if you're going to play around a bit, that's where I'd start since its effect will be uniform across all channels. If you start playing with the sub setting not only do you not get that tapering off effect on the boost as the frequency rises but the effect on different channels will vary if the crossover frequencies for the speakers are different.

Listening at reference level MAY damage hearing but it may not. Setting the volume knob to 0 dB does not really determine how loud things are going to be, that's determined by the level of the signal in the soundtrack and it's constantly changing through a movie. Hearing protection standards are based on the average level of sound to which you're exposed and you need a meter which actually averages the levels if you want to measure it since the decibel scale is logarithmic which means you can't do a simple arithmetic averaging. Setting the receiver to reference level can produce peaks of around 105 dB or a bit more and continuous sound at that level will certainly cause hearing damage but not every movie has a soundtrack that is going to reach that level if you set the volume knob to 0 dB. Some movies are louder than others and even if the peaks reach 105 dB, the average sound pressure level is going to be considerably lower. It's that average level that is important and most safety standards are based on a maximum unprotected exposure at an average of 85 dBA (A weighting scale) for 8 hours per day. This equates to an average of 88 dBA for 4 hours, 91 dBA for 2 hours, and so on. For each increase of 3 dBA, you halve the permissable exposure level so the recommended exposure limit to an average of 105 dBA in a day would be around 4 minutes. You could have a couple of 105 dBA peaks in a movie with an average level of 85 dBA and you could watch that movie for 8 hours based on the recommended exposure levels but if the movie had an average level of 88 dBA you could only watch it for 4 hours based on those recommendations. Most movies are around 2 hours in duration and provided the movie is the loudest thing you listen to all day, average levels of 91 dBA would be OK based on the recommendations. Peak levels are often 15-20 dB louder than average levels so that gives a rough indication that reference level is not necessarily a problem as far as hearing protection goes. It also needs to be stated that those recommendations are based on exposure 5 days a week over long periods and most people aren't going to watch a movie that pushes their exposure to the limits 5 days a week.

To my mind, the biggest problem with reference level is that the peak levels it delivers really require large rooms in order to sound reasonable, rooms like a theatre setting. In the average living room those kind of peak levels can really be quite overpowering, plus they'll tend to rattle too many things, and I don't think I've ever watched anything with my volume at reference level. Around -5 dB is about the highest I go and I have the volume control set a lot lower for many things, especially TV where volume levels often seem to be more consistent so there's less variation between peak and average levels.

Don't worry about trying to match listening levels with Audyssey to the levels you used prior to Audyssey. Simply set the level at an enjoyable level and that may vary a bit from movie to movie. You may be quite happy turning up the volume on a quiet movie and turning it down a bit from there for an action movie with a lot of loud sound effects. As a basic rule of thumb you want to have things loud enough so that you can hear and understand dialogue clearly as a minimum and perhaps a bit louder than that for fun with some of the bangs. You can always turn on night mode or its equivalent if the level that works for dialogue results in bangs that are too loud. Night mode is a dynamic compression which raises the levels of the softer parts of the soundtrack while lowering the levels of the loudest parts. It can let you get the dialogue at an acceptable level while reducing the loudness of the bangs somewhat.
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post #5703 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 09:01 AM
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Ok, I'm having a tough time getting my new Denon 1909 set up to my satisfaction. Basically, the front L/R and surrounds are all perfect, nice and loud during movies and games, but the center channel is just way too low.

I've following the instructions for running Audyssey posted here, but I'm wondering if there's something I need to check. I also worry that it might be simple speaker placement, as my center is below my plasma on a shelf, so it's lower down than the rest of the speakers.

Should I go into Manual Setup and bump up the center a couple of notches? Open to suggestions here, I'm a total Audyssey newb.
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post #5704 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diseasedyak View Post

Ok, I'm having a tough time getting my new Denon 1909 set up to my satisfaction. Basically, the front L/R and surrounds are all perfect, nice and loud during movies and games, but the center channel is just way too low.

I've following the instructions for running Audyssey posted here, but I'm wondering if there's something I need to check. I also worry that it might be simple speaker placement, as my center is below my plasma on a shelf, so it's lower down than the rest of the speakers.

Should I go into Manual Setup and bump up the center a couple of notches? Open to suggestions here, I'm a total Audyssey newb.

Try aiming the center speaker up towards where the ears of the listeners will be. And where the setup mic is. In fact, this is where it should aim anyway.
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post #5705 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Do you have a push-pull type subwoofer by any chance? I have seen this happen with these types of subs and we believe it is due to the way the phasing of the two drivers interacts. I don't have a full explanation for it yet.

Chris

It's a (now 8 years old) Velodyne servo, so perhaps yes?

eric

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post #5706 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 02:14 PM
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Chris,

The Denon feature lists for the 3808 CI and higher upper models say "Audyssey Dynamic EQ calibration installer ready", while for the 2809CI it says "Audyssey Dynamic EQ automatic tonal balance adjustment system".

Does this mean D EQ can be activated by the user?

If so, is any ecompared to doing it w/Pro setup?

Since it's a broadband correction is it correct to assume that less effectiveness is lost from not having Pro calibration compared to the room correction?

Noah
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post #5707 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Chris,

The Denon feature lists for the 3808 CI and higher upper models say "Audyssey Dynamic EQ calibration installer ready", while for the 2809CI it says "Audyssey Dynamic EQ automatic tonal balance adjustment system".

Does this mean D EQ can be activated by the user?

If so, is any ecompared to doing it w/Pro setup?

Since it's a broadband correction is it correct to assume that less effectiveness is lost from not having Pro calibration compared to the room correction?

Hi Noah,

Yes, Dynamic EQ is user activated on all new models. It will be user activated on the 3808CI as soon as the Denon firmware upgrade becomes available. That upgrade will include Dynamic Volume that is already included in all the 09 Denon models.

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post #5708 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricBergan View Post

It's a (now 8 years old) Velodyne servo, so perhaps yes?

eric

I haven't seen shorter distances being reported for Velodyne subs. I recommend just setting it to the physical distance and using the LFE input on the Velodyne to bypass internal filters.

Chris

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post #5709 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 03:22 PM
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Setup my Denon 1909 last night. Overall very happy w/ the sound. I am coming from an Onkyo TXSR 600 that is probably 6 years old or so. I am using a Polk RM6600 sub/sat system that is also 6 or 7 years old. I had previously connected the Polk subwoofer using Polk's recommended speaker level inputs (basically run the AVR outputs for FL and FR to the SW and then connect the FL and FR to the SW and tell the system you have Large fronts and no SW). Apparently the recommended crossover for these sats is 150Hz and since many receivers didn't let you set the crossover that high back 6 years ago Polk suggested you use their method.

For the Denon I got a SW cable and connected it to the Polk SW's (PSW 350) unfiltered LFE input. Set the volume knob on the SW to 12:00 and ran Audyssey. Fortunately Audyssey came back with crossover points of 150 Hz for the fronts and center and 120 Hz for the surrounds so I think it nailed it (was a little worried it would come back w/ a low crossover). However the LFE crossover (in Manual Setup / Speaker Setup / Crossover Freq) is at 80 Hz - do I want to change this?

Also I have noticed that the bass seems to be much more present than it was before. It is very possible my system was not set up properly before (not even sure where the LFE knob on the SW was set) but now if I am in another room I can hear some rumbling of the SW every now and then when just watching regular TV (the Olympics earlier today for example). I know you don't want to mess around w/ the SW volume knob after running Audyssey but wondering if the bass I am hearing is normal and if it isn't how I adjust for it? Do I need to change some settings and then re-run Auto Setup?

Messed around w/ Dynamic Volume and I think I like the Evening setting the best. Daytime doesn't seem to do enough and Midnight muffles the sound too much. So I am basically leaving Evening on for all of my inputs.

Thanks in advance
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post #5710 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 04:36 PM
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Well, I've officially retired Audyssey - Jeff Meier (UMR here on AVS) came by to calibrate my Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB, and thought the sound of my system was subpar (and without recounting too much here, I've done probably a dozen calibrations with my Onkyo 905, being quite careful and following the best practices of this forum.

Jeff has some pretty sophisticated audio test equipment, and found that one of my speakers (the center) was out of phase - an internal wiring issue that he noted is a bit more common than in should be. We fixed that, and then he spent an hour running various tests, tweaking the manual EQ and crossovers, and channel levels, and working quite a bit with my SMS-1 (I patted myself on the back to the extent that he said my sub settings were the best he's seen/heard in any setup he's walked into.) But that was improved as well.

All in all the sound is much better integrated, has much more punch, and is focused much better and with greater clarity than before.
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post #5711 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 04:39 PM
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Great, thanks, Chris.

Is there a minimum firmware version of the 2808 that will ensure that it has it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Noah,

Yes, Dynamic EQ is user activated on all new models. It will be user activated on the 3808CI as soon as the Denon firmware upgrade becomes available. That upgrade will include Dynamic Volume that is already included in all the 09 Denon models.

Chris


Noah
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post #5712 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Great, thanks, Chris.

Is there a minimum firmware version of the 2808 that will ensure that it has it?

Hi Noah,

I assume you mean the 2809, right? There is no minimum version. They all ship with Dynamic EQ that turns on right after you run MultEQ.

Chris

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post #5713 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricScott View Post

For the Denon I got a SW cable and connected it to the Polk SW's (PSW 350) unfiltered LFE input. Set the volume knob on the SW to 12:00 and ran Audyssey. Fortunately Audyssey came back with crossover points of 150 Hz for the fronts and center and 120 Hz for the surrounds so I think it nailed it (was a little worried it would come back w/ a low crossover). However the LFE crossover (in Manual Setup / Speaker Setup / Crossover Freq) is at 80 Hz - do I want to change this?

The LFE setting that you see is not a crossover. It is a filter that is only applied to the separate LFE track on DVDs and HD content. It doesn't have any effect on the content that is sent to your main channels. In any case, the LFE filter should always be set to 120 Hz. It should not be a variable setting available for tweaking, but manufacturers haven't figured that out yet...

Quote:


Also I have noticed that the bass seems to be much more present than it was before. It is very possible my system was not set up properly before (not even sure where the LFE knob on the SW was set) but now if I am in another room I can hear some rumbling of the SW every now and then when just watching regular TV (the Olympics earlier today for example). I know you don't want to mess around w/ the SW volume knob after running Audyssey but wondering if the bass I am hearing is normal and if it isn't how I adjust for it? Do I need to change some settings and then re-run Auto Setup?

Welcome to the world of TV production. Let's just say it is standards... challenged. They don't typically monitor with a subwoofer and bass management in the control room. So, all kinds of bass creeps into the mix and they never hear it. Very sad. The same is true for many commercials.

Listen to some movies before deciding that the bass is wrong. You can manually change it, but do so in the subwoofer level trim within the Denon menu so that you can always put it back if you need to.

Quote:


Messed around w/ Dynamic Volume and I think I like the Evening setting the best. Daytime doesn't seem to do enough and Midnight muffles the sound too much. So I am basically leaving Evening on for all of my inputs.

This is purely a personal choice that depends on the circumstances (isolation of your listening room, people sleeping next door, etc.). You may find that you need to change it at different times.

Chris

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post #5714 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

The LFE setting that you see is not a crossover. It is a filter that is only applied to the separate LFE track on DVDs and HD content. It doesn't have any effect on the content that is sent to your main channels. In any case, the LFE filter should always be set to 120 Hz. It should not be a variable setting available for tweaking, but manufacturers haven't figured that out yet...



Welcome to the world of TV production. Let's just say it is standards... challenged. They don't typically monitor with a subwoofer and bass management in the control room. So, all kinds of bass creeps into the mix and they never hear it. Very sad. The same is true for many commercials.

Listen to some movies before deciding that the bass is wrong. You can manually change it, but do so in the subwoofer level trim within the Denon menu so that you can always put it back if you need to.



This is purely a personal choice that depends on the circumstances (isolation of your listening room, people sleeping next door, etc.). You may find that you need to change it at different times.

Chris

Thanks Chris!

I assume changing the LFE from 80hz to 120hz won't mess up the Audyssey calibration?

Definitely going to give it some time and watch some movies before changing anything around. Unfortunately my wife (who made fun of me for setting up a tripod to run the Audyssey setup) commented that she heard the bass and didn't like it (we have a 4 month old so she is very sensitive to his sleep habits). So I may need to do something about it but hopefully she will get used to it.

Thanks again.
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post #5715 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricScott View Post

Thanks Chris!

I assume changing the LFE from 80hz to 120hz won't mess up the Audyssey calibration?

It will not. MultEQ doesn't even look at that setting.

Quote:


Definitely going to give it some time and watch some movies before changing anything around. Unfortunately my wife (who made fun of me for setting up a tripod to run the Audyssey setup) commented that she heard the bass and didn't like it (we have a 4 month old so she is very sensitive to his sleep habits). So I may need to do something about it but hopefully she will get used to it.

You may have to turn it down for some TV content and back up to the standard value for DVDs and HD movies. That's why it's best to do that in the Denon menu. Easy to change to exactly the same value.

Chris

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post #5716 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Well, I've officially retired Audyssey - Jeff Meier (UMR here on AVS) came by to calibrate my Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB, and thought the sound of my system was subpar (and without recounting too much here, I've done probably a dozen calibrations with my Onkyo 905, being quite careful and following the best practices of this forum.

Jeff has some pretty sophisticated audio test equipment, and found that one of my speakers (the center) was out of phase - an internal wiring issue that he noted is a bit more common than in should be. We fixed that, and then he spent an hour running various tests, tweaking the manual EQ and crossovers, and channel levels, and working quite a bit with my SMS-1 (I patted myself on the back to the extent that he said my sub settings were the best he's seen/heard in any setup he's walked into.) But that was improved as well.

All in all the sound is much better integrated, has much more punch, and is focused much better and with greater clarity than before.


All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly.
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post #5717 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

You may have to turn it down for some TV content and back up to the standard value for DVDs and HD movies. That's why it's best to do that in the Denon menu. Easy to change to exactly the same value.

Chris

He has the Denon 1909. Should not Dynamic Volume EQ set on Midnight keep the baby happy?
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post #5718 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

He has the Denon 1909. Should not Dynamic Volume EQ set on Midnight keep the baby happy?

This is purely a personal preference. So, we recommend to go with the setting that each person finds appropriate at the time they are listening. I find that I use different settings depending on which room I am in and what is happening next door.

Chris

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post #5719 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 05:53 PM
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As I did not get a response last time I am posting again.

Hi All,

While watching TV if someone is sitting on the couch I sit on the carpet (i.e. floor) in front of the couch. Now the question, if I take measurements at ear level in the sitting position on the couch and measurements while sitting on the floor will audyssey make appropriate corrections even though the ear level is different for the floor and couch.
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post #5720 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Well, I've officially retired Audyssey - Jeff Meier (UMR here on AVS) came by to calibrate my Epson Pro Cinema 1080UB, and thought the sound of my system was subpar (and without recounting too much here, I've done probably a dozen calibrations with my Onkyo 905, being quite careful and following the best practices of this forum.

Jeff has some pretty sophisticated audio test equipment, and found that one of my speakers (the center) was out of phase - an internal wiring issue that he noted is a bit more common than in should be. We fixed that, and then he spent an hour running various tests, tweaking the manual EQ and crossovers, and channel levels, and working quite a bit with my SMS-1 (I patted myself on the back to the extent that he said my sub settings were the best he's seen/heard in any setup he's walked into.) But that was improved as well.

All in all the sound is much better integrated, has much more punch, and is focused much better and with greater clarity than before.

This is the second anti-Audyssey/pro-Jeff Meier post I've seen here and I have to wonder why? And your last post here, thrang, was three months ago about the Penguins and the Rangers. The previous post was two months before that, so it's not like you're a regular. As far as I'm concerned, you are off-topic with your shameless plug. And I apologize to the thread for being off-topic as well, but I felt this needed to be posted.
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post #5721 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly.

Where did I say that?

The response is as flat as the room allows with the manual settings, but the soundfield is much more solid and precise than with Audyssey. And I certainly spent a LOT of time trying to calibrate correctly. I got things better as I learned more here, in terms of mic positioning, sampling locations, blankets on my leather seats, etc., but this manual process has achieved the best results for me by far.

But you need someone with the tools to do it right, I suppose, which Jeff had and is not worth investing in for the few times you might do it yourself (the Sencore audio analyzer cost somewhere between $4,000 and $5,000 I think).
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post #5722 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kdmello View Post

As I did not get a response last time I am posting again.

Hi All,

While watching TV if someone is sitting on the couch I sit on the carpet (i.e. floor) in front of the couch. Now the question, if I take measurements at ear level in the sitting position on the couch and measurements while sitting on the floor will audyssey make appropriate corrections even though the ear level is different for the floor and couch.

I think Chris will be the best person to answer this, but my two rows of seats are different heights and I therefore placed the mic at different levels. True, neither row of seats is on the floor, but I'm going to guess that you should test at those positions.
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post #5723 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

This is the second anti-Audyssey/pro-Jeff Meier post I've seen here and I have to wonder why? And your last post here, thrang, was three months ago about the Penguins and the Rangers. The previous post was two months before that, so it's not like you're a regular. As far as I'm concerned, you are off-topic with your shameless plug. And I apologize to the thread for being off-topic as well, but I felt this needed to be posted.

Well, first - I've posted in many threads here in AVS recently, but I had given up on this particular thread some time back.

Secondly, my point is not about Jeff, but that it may be worth talking to any quality calibrator to explore options. I had called Jeff in only to calibrate my Epson, but he offered to work on the audio after listening to the system, and if I didn't feel it was improved, he wouldn't charge me.

Third, its not a plug anymore than anyone here recommends or warns against products or services to help others. Jeff, or Kevin Miller, or any other respected calibrator have a healthy list of clients and proven track record. I have no relationship with Jeff other than this is the second time I've used his services, and receive no free or discounted service, nor did he ask I post anything on his behalf. So frankly, you're wrong.

Since there are numerous posts from many users here having been frustrated to get Audyssey sounding as good as they'd hoped for, I thought it was the appropriate place to share an alternative experience to help others. Are you saying its not possible to have a better non-Audyssey experience?
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post #5724 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 06:41 PM
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Hi Chris,

"I assume you mean the 2809, right? There is no minimum version. They all ship with Dynamic EQ that turns on right after you run MultEQ."

Actually I meant the 2808, as I didn't even know there was a 2809, but either way the info is just as welcome

Thanks again.

Noah
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post #5725 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 06:44 PM
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"All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly."

Given the effort that many need to get satisfactory results, and the variety of possible results with differing or even the same mike positions, I think that that statement is a bit overassuming.

Noah
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post #5726 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Well, first - I've posted in many threads here in AVS recently, but I had given up on this particular thread some time back.

Secondly, my point is not about Jeff, but that it may be worth talking to any quality calibrator to explore options. I had called Jeff in only to calibrate my Epson, but he offered to work on the audio after listening to the system, and if I didn't feel it was improved, he wouldn't charge me.

Third, its not a plug anymore than anyone here recommends or warns against products or services to help others. Jeff, or Kevin Miller, or any other respected calibrator have a healthy list of clients and proven track record. I have no relationship with Jeff other than this is the second time I've used his services, and receive no free or discounted service, nor did he ask I post anything on his behalf. So frankly, you're wrong.

Since there are numerous posts from many users here having been frustrated to get Audyssey sounding as good as they'd hoped for, I thought it was the appropriate place to share an alternative experience to help others. Are you saying its not possible to have a better non-Audyssey experience?

Fair enough. There have been and continue to be posts by members frustrated by their Audyssey results. I had a lot of doubts myself about the technology before actually using it and those doubts were fed by the posts of frustrated members. However, my first - and only - setup went smooth, yielded speaker distances that could not have been any closer given the "resolution" of the measurements and has made my home theater sound far better than it ever had. So I know the technology works and works quite well. I do not know why your results were lacking, but most members I've seen posting here eventually do achieve good results with some assistance - usually from Chris (audyssey) - and the willingness to stay with it.

I don't recall any taking a parting shot extolling the virtues of a specific manual calibrator though.
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post #5727 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"All you are saying is you do not prefer a flat frequency response with a slight roll off at the top to get the same sound as the mixing studio because that is what you got with Audyssey EQ assuming you calibrated correctly."

Given the effort that many need to get satisfactory results, and the variety of possible results with differing or even the same mike positions, I think that that statement is a bit overassuming.

Given the number a variables involved would you not expect small differences in the results with the same mike positions? As for differing mike positions I can only assume you have not been following this thread.
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post #5728 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Given the effort that many need to get satisfactory results, and the variety of possible results with differing or even the same mike positions, I think that that statement is a bit overassuming.

Sorry Noah, but I will have to disagree with this statement. For two reasons:

1) If you put the mic in the exact same positions and run MultEQ 100 times you will get exactly the same results. This took months of testing and we have the data to back it up. It was one of the main design elements that went into MultEQ and it had to do with how the algorithm collects data from the room.

2) "Satisfactory results" is an elusive goal. There are objective measures and personal preferences. From the beginning, I have been very clear about what MultEQ is designed to do: It will achieve the target curve that best matches what was used during production. It does so by removing the acoustical problems in your room and applying the target sound that was heard under the acoustical conditions of the dubbing stage/mixing room.

But there are also preferences. People pay a lot of money for their systems and they want them to sound pleasing--even if that deviates from the way the content was mixed.

There is nothing wrong with that and I completely understand it. I don't criticize it, just as I don't expect Audyssey to be criticized for performing according to the stated specifications.

If someone writes to me and says: "MultEQ is not achieving the specified curve", then I jump in and try to figure out why that is. But, if someone says: "I gave up on Audyssey because it didn't sound the way I wanted it to", then they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what MultEQ is supposed to be doing.

But they also need to be aware of what they are giving up when they go down that path. Using a parametric equalizer with 9 bands may give you a rough approximation of the target sound you want, but it gives up a lot including time domain correction filters and hundreds of control points (vs. 9 bands). It all depends on your goals and preferences.

Chris

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post #5729 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 10:09 PM
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"If you put the mic in the exact same positions and run MultEQ 100 times you will get exactly the same results. "

OK. How robust is the repeatability w/small changes in the variables, i.e., where the person is standing in the room while measurements are being taken.

One has to wonder why some people seem to have so much trouble getting good results, but I suppose it could be that, as you say, many are used to poor freq response.

Noah
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post #5730 of 73179 Old 08-16-2008, 11:08 PM
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Many thanks to giomania for the excellent write-up.

I ran Audyssey this afternoon using those steps on my Denon 1909.

After calibration, I found my fronts were set to large, I then changed them to small.

Also the crossover frequencies were set as below

Front : (None initially, 40Hz after changing it to small)
Center : 40Hz
Surr : 60Hz
Surr Bk : 60 Hz
LFE : 80 Hz

My fronts are JBL E80, Center is EC25 and surrounds are E10.

After looking at speaker specs I changed the crossovers as below

Front : 60 HZ
Center : 90 Hz
Surr : 80 Hz
Surr Bk : 80 HZ
LFE : 80 HZ

So here are my questions

1. I have noticed Audyssey always sets my SUB a little to hot (about 3db). So should I reduce the db level on receiver or turn the level nob on the SUB. (With multiple retries of the SUB level knob setting, I have achieved to get close to 0 db level for sub during calibration, so I am reluctant to touch that knob again)
2. By making the changes to crossovers mentioned above, will by calibration be thrown off?
3. I read here that I should set the LFE to 120Hz, should I change it?

Thanks in advance for your responses.
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