"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2182 - AVS Forum
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post #65431 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I thought you had already received several responses, including one from me, that a -11 trim should not be a cause for any concern.

I had yet Keith thought I should change it and I think there seemed to9 be some other debate here. Ok Im happy, will leave well alone....
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post #65432 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Seriously. You are happy and it sounds good and it all works! What more could you ask for, leave well enough alone!

Thanks for that, after your confirmation and Jerrys Im happy to leave well alone. smile.gif
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post #65433 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 02:35 PM
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So long as they're waking up OK, -11dB trim is fine.

A trim of -11dB means that the receiver has attenuated its output to compensate for the relatively high gain in the amps driving the subs.

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post #65434 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

So long as they're waking up OK, -11dB trim is fine.

A trim of -11dB means that the receiver has attenuated its output to compensate for the relatively high gain in the amps driving the subs.
Precisely.

If the trims in the avr are on the low end (eg. -11) as long as subs with an auto On feature turn on, you're fine.

The danger is if they're on the high side (eg. +11db). In this case, you want to check the gain structure in your setup (the V output range of the avr vs. the V input range of the sub's amp) to ensure the avr's line level signal won't potentially clip the sub amp's input. To do this, you'll need to determine the range of the avr's pre-outs for the sub channel AND the range of the sub amp's input to see if they're well matched.

Or, you could simply recalibrate the setup after increasing the sub volume so the avr trim setting is closer to zero, or in the -ve range, just to be on the safe side.


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post #65435 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

So long as they're waking up OK, -11dB trim is fine.

A trim of -11dB means that the receiver has attenuated its output to compensate for the relatively high gain in the amps driving the subs.

Hi Selden,

+1.

In the meantime, please allow me to amend your above sentence a tad bit as follows:

"A trim of -11dB means that the receiver has attenuated it's output to compensate for the relatively high gain in the amps driving the subs...in order to achive movie reference level when the Master Volume is set to 0 dB".

BTW, and IMHO this wake-up feature of a sub (any sub) is one of the most sillyest features Man has ever created. I can not come up with a situation where this is really needed. E.g., I like to play music with DEQ ON when friends are over and we're having a chat while music is playing in the background with deep and smooth bass even at a -50 dB MV setting. My Dali sub has that switch, but I always have it turned off.

Whaddaya think?
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post #65436 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 02:58 PM
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post #65437 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

What do we think? Pointless.

Care to expand a bit on pointless, Jerry?
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post #65438 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 03:47 PM
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Feri, just curious, do you leave your sub on 24/7, or turn it off and on manually. If 24/7 how long have you ran it like that?

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post #65439 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Feri, just curious, do you leave your sub on 24/7, or turn it off and on manually. If 24/7 how long have you ran it like that?

I always turn it off when I turn off my whole system. My sub is totally powered off. I use a mains socket remote control to do that. My sub is built into my front "stage", thus it would be inconvenient to remove it (read: pull it out) from it's location every time I'm finished.

Here's a pic for your ref.:

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post #65440 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

BTW, and IMHO this wake-up feature of a sub (any sub) is one of the most sillyest features Man has ever created. I can not come up with a situation where this is really needed.

Whaddaya think?

I think you are 100% wrong. There's a reason almost every sub has this feature -- it's REALLY helpful. Most subs' power switches are tiny little things on the back, not easy to reach in many setups. The Auto-On feature means you never have to worry about turning your sub on and off. If you can't think of a situation where it's needed, you are sorely lacking in imagination for setups which may not be like your own.

It's equally useful to have auto-on circuits for external amps (e.g. a Zone 2 amp) because again you never have to worry about powering it on/off. It just operates seamlessly... system is on, subwoofer or external amp is on too.

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My sub is built into my front "stage", thus it would be inconvenient to remove it (read: pull it out) from it's location every time I'm finished.

This is your setup, yet you can't imagine a situation where an auto-on circuit would be needed? confused.gif This is PRECISELY the situation where it is REALLY NEEDED!
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post #65441 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think you are 100% wrong. There's a reason almost every sub has this feature -- it's REALLY helpful. Most subs' power switches are tiny little things on the back, not easy to reach in many setups. The Auto-On feature means you never have to worry about turning your sub on and off. If you can't think of a situation where it's needed, you are sorely lacking in imagination for setups which may not be like your own.

It's equally useful to have auto-on circuits for external amps (e.g. a Zone 2 amp) because again you never have to worry about powering it on/off. It just operates seamlessly... system is on, subwoofer or external amp is on too.
This is your setup, yet you can't imagine a situation where an auto-on circuit would be needed? confused.gif This is PRECISELY the situation where it is REALLY NEEDED!

This is of course your opinion bp. I have a solution that works best for me with a socket remote. What's the problem?

BTW, when listening at a very soft level the signal strength may not be enough to switch the sub out of standby mode, thus resulting in loss of smooth bass. This is the sutiation here I think you are 100% wrong. Think about it a bit, please. cool.gif
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post #65442 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:14 PM
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There's no problem for YOUR solution. But you specifically asked what other people thought, and I told you.

It's worth noting that the fact that you had to devise another solution in essence proves the usefulness of the Auto-On feature. You said that you "can not come up with a situation where this is really needed", but the ONLY reason YOU don't need it is because you came up with an alternate solution. That by its nature proves that there is a problem that requires a solution; the Auto-On circuit is the solution that already comes for free with the subwoofer.

You are in essence arguing that "feature X is a silly feature because you can buy an additional piece of hardware that replaces the function of feature X." That implies that there are situations where the functionality of feature X is needed, thus rendering your claim that you can't think of a situation where it would be needed completely bizarre.
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post #65443 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:16 PM
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The problem, Feri, is that this is a pointless discussion in the Audyssey thread.
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post #65444 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

The problem, Feri, is that this is a pointless discussion in the Audyssey thread.

What is wrong with you Guys here? Ever thought of a wake-up feature for your satellite speakers? Any difference to a sub?mad.gifeek.gifcool.gifrolleyes.gifwink.giftongue.gif
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post #65445 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:25 PM
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There is a HUGE difference. The sub has an AMPLIFIER in it which requires power from an electrical socket. The satellite speakers are passive and do not need any additional "wake up" besides the receiver turning on.
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post #65446 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

There is a HUGE difference. The sub has an AMPLIFIER in it which requires power from an electrical socket. The satellite speakers are passive and do not need any additional "wake up" besides the receiver turning on.

Come on bp, use your fantasy, please!!! Satellites are also run off amplifiers, aren't they? Technically anything can be solved. Practically of course, it's nonsense!

Let's get back to Audyssey issues! smile.gif
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post #65447 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:37 PM
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I can agree that your comments on the issue are nonsense.
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post #65448 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 04:49 PM
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I can agree that your comments on the issue are nonsense.

Peace be with you! smile.gif
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post #65449 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:00 PM
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I am away this week with Mrs Keith, fortunately. Joining in on a cellphone is a real PITA. But l still know pointless when I see it :)  All I have to add is the more you feed 'em the hungrier they get :l

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post #65450 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posally ted by SoundofMind View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View PostHe has - but he's wrong ;)

Or, to put it a better way, he's only thinking in terms of Audyssey, as he usually does. In those terms, he is right. Thinking more holistically, he's wrong.

Keith, you've lost me here.  Like the OP, I'm unclear as to what is wrong with my post or my citing Chris' advice in this instance, wholistically or otherwise.   What is it in that FAQ answer that indicates how my post (and my quoting Chris) is wrong in this instance? 

 

More importantly, is there something you'd have the OP do differently irt his sub set up?

 

what beast said basically. High neg trim sub may not wake up. High pos trim may clip sub amp. Plus what is in referenced FAQ answer.  Sorry 4 short response. On cellphone. 

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post #65451 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

what beast said basically. High neg trim sub may not wake up. High pos trim may clip sub amp. Plus what is in referenced FAQ answer.  Sorry 4 short response. On cellphone. 

Hi neg sub wake up makes no sense! Why does a sub need to wake up? Don't use that setting! High pos trim will not cause clipping coz its set by Audyssey that way in order to play movie reference at 0 dB MV.
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post #65452 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:35 PM
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Something of interest to anyone looking for information on which flavor of Audyssey is included in which AVRs:
Chris K. answered a question on FB's Audyssey Tech Talk about whether an updated list of AVRs was going to be restored to the Audyssey website posted by one of our own (Feri).

In response, he (Chris) said there were no plans to do so in the near future, because "we don't really have a resource available to do that and keep the list current. I'll be happy to answer individual questions from this group". However, he did agree that a reader putting a list of AVRs or pre/pros with Audyssey together on an A/V enthusiast site of choice was a good idea.

WTF? They don't have anyone that can do a Google search or look up websites of the usual manufacturer suspects?

Sorry to out you from FB, Feri, but I thought it newsworthy....

Stuart

 

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Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

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The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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post #65453 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:39 PM
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 ote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

what beast said basically. High neg trim sub may not wake up. High pos trim may clip sub amp. Plus what is in referenced FAQ answer.  Sorry 4 short response. On cellphone. 

Hi neg sub wake up makes no sense! Why does a sub need to wake up? Don't use that setting! High pos trim will not cause clipping coz its set by Audyssey that way in order to play movie reference at 0 dB MV.

Please see the FAQ where it is all explained in detail. 

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post #65454 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Poste
Something of interest to anyone looking for information on which flavor of Audyssey is included in which AVRs:
Chris K. answered a question on FB's Audyssey Tech Talk about whether an updated list of AVRs was going to be restored to the Audyssey website posted by one of our own (Feri).

In response, he (Chris) said there were no plans to do so in the near future, because "we don't really have a resource available to do that and keep the list current. I'll be happy to answer individual questions from this group". However, he did agree that a reader putting a list of AVRs or pre/pros with Audyssey together on an A/V enthusiast site of choice was a good idea.

WTF? They don't have anyone that can do a Google search or look up websites of the usual manufacturer suspects?

Sorry to out you from FB, Feri, but I thought it newsworthy....

 

audysseyno longer GAF. Just interested in being new Bose.  This thread now principal Audyssey resource. 

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post #65455 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post


In response, he (Chris) said there were no plans to do so in the near future, because "we don't really have a resource available to do that and keep the list current.

....

Responses like this and other subtle queues make me wonder whether Audyssey is having financial difficulties.
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post #65456 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

WTF? They don't have anyone that can do a Google search or look up websites of the usual manufacturer suspects?
Or, doesn't Audyssey have an internal list that shows which version of MultEQ they themselves licensed to specific receiver and pre-pro models?

Sanjay
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post #65457 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Something of interest to anyone looking for information on which flavor of Audyssey is included in which AVRs:
Chris K. answered a question on FB's Audyssey Tech Talk about whether an updated list of AVRs was going to be restored to the Audyssey website posted by one of our own (Feri).

In response, he (Chris) said there were no plans to do so in the near future, because "we don't really have a resource available to do that and keep the list current. I'll be happy to answer individual questions from this group". However, he did agree that a reader putting a list of AVRs or pre/pros with Audyssey together on an A/V enthusiast site of choice was a good idea.

WTF? They don't have anyone that can do a Google search or look up websites of the usual manufacturer suspects?

Sorry to out you from FB, Feri, but I thought it newsworthy....

No problem for outing Stuart, I was just as well astonished as you are now. The previous seach engine on Audyssey homepage was really helpful for folks wanting to know different flavors, I know I used it a lot. C'est la vie! Google is our friend! smile.gif
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post #65458 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

audysseyno longer GAF. Just interested in being new Bose. 

As we've discussed ad nauseum here, they've moved well beyond the home audio market being their emphasis to being some sort of mobile software platform/IP licensor as their mission. We all know that they're not the same company they were when XT32 was released. But this is basic functionality to direct potential users to which of their licensing partners have a particular flavor of Audyssey XT in the first place. They might actually get a higher incremental stream of revenue if they noticed what we have about XT32 being a strong recommendation based on testing by our forum members. and at least mentioned which recent AVRs had XT32 included.

It warrants an official eek.gif

@ Feri: I don't like being the bomb thrower, but it was shocking enough to be mentioned here. And DK about you, but even though I had always intended to get XT32 when I went into Audyssey in the first place, it was still worth seeing which units had what version to know what others here on AVS had, or what the new units might have.

What's even worse is that someone looking to use, say, the Pro kit, even through a "custom installer", won't know which units are Pro ready from Audyssey's own website, meaning that the info on the manufacturer websites has to be accurate. Double eek.gif

All I know is they better keep generating updated licensee Pro keys on the Installer site....

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...

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post #65459 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

As we've discussed ad nauseum here, they've moved well beyond the home audio market being their emphasis to being some sort of mobile software platform/IP licensor as their mission. We all know that they're not the same company they were when XT32 was released. But this is basic functionality to direct potential users to which of their licensing partners have a particular flavor of Audyssey XT in the first place. They might actually get a higher incremental stream of revenue if they noticed what we have about XT32 being a strong recommendation based on testing by our forum members. and at least mentioned which recent AVRs had XT32 included.

It warrants an official eek.gif

@ Feri: I don't like being the bomb thrower, but it was shocking enough to be mentioned here. And DK about you, but even though I had always intended to get XT32 when I went into Audyssey in the first place, it was still worth seeing which units had what version to know what others here on AVS had, or what the new units might have.

What's even worse is that someone looking to use, say, the Pro kit, even through a "custom installer", won't know which units are Pro ready from Audyssey's own website, meaning that the info on the manufacturer websites has to be accurate. Double eek.gif

All I know is they better keep generating updated licensee Pro keys on the Installer site....

You are right Stu,...and as I said I'm not happy either! But to cheer you up, at least you can know that XT32 will not become obsolete (for the time being)! How is that for a good feeling? eek.gifsmile.gif
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post #65460 of 72996 Old 10-07-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Come on bp, use your fantasy, please!!! Satellites are also run off amplifiers, aren't they? Technically anything can be solved. Practically of course, it's nonsense!

Let's get back to Audyssey issues! smile.gif

And so do all of my speakers, and they are all on an "Auto On/Off" feature. I don't understand why you choose to bypass these options if you amps have the ability. It doesnt require getting behind them and messing with any plugs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hi neg sub wake up makes no sense! Why does a sub need to wake up? Don't use that setting! High pos trim will not cause clipping coz its set by Audyssey that way in order to play movie reference at 0 dB MV.

It just said that one "user" found this post helpful, well, unfortunately it is not, as ANY amp requires a range of voltage to make it operate within its proper constraints, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AUDYSSEY and its trims. If a sub with integrated amp didn't see enough voltage from the line out it would not "Turn on" but in most cases, they are sensitive enough to catch it. I had a zone two amp that OTOH wouldn't turn on as the input voltage required was way too high for me to play my outdoor speakers at a reasonable volume. Once I cranked it up a bit to where it was uncomfortable if we were trying to talk by my table on the deck, it would work fine, but I didn't want that, so I switched it out for one that had a lower input sensitivity and all is good smile.gif

High positive trim WILL VERY MUCH CAUSE SUB AMP INPUT CLIPPING AT REFERENCE. Need I repeat it? Unless you have tested it out (which I have) and documented it (which I have) Feri, don't make erroneous comments to which you have no backing for. I simply stated earlier in this thread that I have pushed my system to where I began to see clipping at the input of my EQ that is in-line between my AVR and my sub amp, and at a positive subwoofer trim on the AVR, and even some of the negatives (namely down to -3 or so), I have seen it clip my EQ which is equipped with "Clip lights" so I can easily see during playback when it happens. I imagine you haven't tried to test the input voltages you are getting from your AVR to your sub when you are really running the system hard? It obviously depends on the AVR/Pre, and the imput sens. of the amp that the line out is going to, but if you don't have experience testing this aspect, then don't post about it.

To your defense you are right about one thing, the audyssey calibrated trims will make the sub play at the right level from an overall spl standpoint, but if you are really way up on the sub level trim in the AVR to get there, and the sub's volume knob is too far down, you really WILL clip the input of your sub amp and have a very bad day if it stays that way for too long. Not sure why I spent the time posting all this since the OP was questioning the opposite of all this, where the trims are too low. Let's move on now please...biggrin.gif

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