"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2388 - AVS Forum
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post #71611 of 72388 Old 06-25-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Audyssey is not happy about as using each of their techs without "layering" as intended isn't how they are designed.
I get that Audyssey intended for Dynamic EQ to be used... but I have never liked it... I've always thought the bass sounded exaggerated, especially at lower volumes where more EQ is being applied (and yes I've tried the various reference level offsets)... and I didn't find this was limited to the sub, but also effected the upper bass in the mains and center, most notably adding too much body (and sometimes boom) to voices.

I certainly happy D&M have made it possible to turn it off completely and still use Dynamic Volume for late night viewing.
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post #71612 of 72388 Old 06-25-2014, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post
No web interface needed... at least with the X1000 and X2000.
On the x4000, if Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol are off, turning on Dyn Vol will also turn on Dyn EQ. However, at that point you can turn off Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol will remain on. This is with the remote.

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post #71613 of 72388 Old 06-25-2014, 07:12 PM
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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

I agree Alpha. I recently moved my Yamaha to my newly finished basement and never had any unnecessary or "exaggerated" bass with the YPAO calibration. I love everything about Audyssey except for the bass. At lower normal viewing volumes there's always this overwhelming background bass that I feel shouldn't be there especially with a deeper voice or a background sound. My YPAO never had an issue with this. I've even turned the gain down to 35% and it's still noticeable. I guess its time to learn manual calibration, here we go...


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post #71614 of 72388 Old 06-25-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LGTWHIT View Post
I agree Alpha. I recently moved my Yamaha to my newly finished basement and never had any unnecessary or "exaggerated" bass with the YPAO calibration. I love everything about Audyssey except for the bass. At lower normal viewing volumes there's always this overwhelming background bass that I feel shouldn't be there especially with a deeper voice or a background sound. My YPAO never had an issue with this. I've even turned the gain down to 35% and it's still noticeable. I guess its time to learn manual calibration, here we go...


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Or simply turn off DynEQ
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post #71615 of 72388 Old 06-25-2014, 07:33 PM
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Whoa, much better! Still learning


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post #71616 of 72388 Old 06-25-2014, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
On the x4000, if Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol are off, turning on Dyn Vol will also turn on Dyn EQ. However, at that point you can turn off Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol will remain on. This is with the remote.
Yep, works the same on the X1000 and X2000... and it's not described in the manual that it can be done this way, I just did it by accident when I was setting up the X1000... definitely a pleasant surprise...

On every other Denon or Marantz receiver I've owned, turning off Dynamic EQ turned off Dynamic Volume as well....

I still wish these companies would add Dolby Volume... but I think that ship has sailed... I don't even think Harman and Onkyo are using it anymore. Shame, since the consensus was that it worked better than Dynamic EQ/Dynamic Volume... but I guess the licensing fees weren't minor.
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post #71617 of 72388 Old 06-25-2014, 10:43 PM
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I have been using Dynamic EQ for 4+ years. When I first heard it, I thought the bass was over inflated, there is no way i can do this (in an apartment) without the fire department here in an hour. I subsequently got a subdude for my subwoofer, along with about a foot of padding underneath it. I calibrate these days and am religious about using Dynamic EQ and I can feel my bass literally just trying to grab the floor to hit that deep bass hitting that minimal level where it's reaching the point it should be in order to satisfy senses but not shake the room - as it would sound in a dead room. Know what I mean? I have used Dynamic EQ for a few years now without a single neighbor complaint, and i was getting them previously before i modified my subwoofer setup (even without Dynamic EQ engaged).

Bass is now more like a strong pinch instead of an explosion. I can feel the audio creating that tight "barriered" soundfield around me where it's loud as hell, but not a single rogue reflection or sound-wave sneaks through to fatigue my ears - if that makes any sense. My only problem in fact is that the sound gets so flat that it's a bit boring, and i think it's because the calibration is taming the heck out of the exciting yet reflective trebles. I can get up to -10dbs and it still does not sound "loud" to my ears (depending on the blu-ray). Anything above that though pushes it.

I'm trying to hit that happy medium where the sound is bright enough but still has that bubble big enough to save me from ear fatigue. Is that understood at all?

But if someone can still answer my questions about Audyssey and ambient noise. Things would be much more peaceful if i felt that i didn't have to control the universe of sound completely during a calibration.

Thanks all. After 10 years on here, I have gotten very far!

Last edited by Napoleon D; 06-26-2014 at 08:06 AM.
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post #71618 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Napoleon D View Post
But if someone can still answer my questions about Audyssey and ambient noise. Things would be much more peaceful if i felt that i didn't have to control the universe of sound completely during a calibration.
Here are some further quotes by Chris about ambient noise and especially the last one about "short impulsive noises":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
If there is too much ambient noise, Audyssey raises the chirp level to get a good signal to noise ratio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
If you don't get an ambient noise too high error then that means the measurements were above the required signal to noise ratio and the room correction filters are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
We have set a threshold for the noise below which it doesn't audibly affect the measurements (and therefore the filters). If you don't get the "ambient noise too high" error message then the noise is not high enough to affect the measurements.
Also, the repeated chirps for each speaker increase the signal to noise ratio and that helps with short impulsive noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
If the noise affected the measurements you would know. MultEQ would raise the level of the chirps and then report an ambient noise error message for some types of noise. Or your distance measurements would not be accurate if there was noise corruption. If none of that happened then the data you got is good and you don't need to worry about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
The test signal repeats louder if MultEQ found that there is a high level of room noise that is affecting the measurements. This happens if there is any device that makes noise nearby. For example a fridge, a heater fan, a computer fan, a projector, etc. Also, if there is electrical hum in your system (e.g. from the cable system) this could cause this problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
If you make noise during the silence period then MultEQ will pick it up and repeat the chirps at a higher level. If it doesn't do that then you are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris K
Each channel plays 10 chirps at a given level. Repeating chirps at one level improves the signal to noise ratio for that measurement and guards against short impulsive noises that might corrupt one or two chirps.
If the background noise is steady and above the "approved" limits, then MultEQ repeats the 10 chirps at a higher level. It constantly checks to make sure that the signal to noise ratio of the data is above what it needs to be to get good readings.
So, yes, if your calculation has completed without a noise error message your measurements are fine.
That said, to be sure I get well above the noise floor, I raise the digital gain (with 10dB) on my sub to 85dB instead of 75dB pre-Audyssey. Afterwards, I raise the receivers trim from -10 to 0 and decrease the digital gain on the sub with 10dB. That is one of my personal "tweaks".

Last edited by rickardl; 06-26-2014 at 02:14 AM. Reason: added some more quotes
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post #71619 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Napoleon D View Post
My question is, will you get the same calibration results if there are a few sudden noises (car horn etc) as you would with absolute silence?


Thanks guys!
Yes. See this FAQ answer:

b)2. Why is Audyssey reporting 'Ambient Noise Too High'?

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

If you don't get a warning you are good to go.


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post #71620 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 02:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Napoleon D View Post
I

But if someone can still answer my questions about Audyssey and ambient noise. Things would be much more peaceful if i felt that i didn't have to control the universe of sound completely during a calibration.
You don't. Read the FAQ answer - if you don't get an ambient noise warning then you are good to go.


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post #71621 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 08:17 AM
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Thanks all for the responses.
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post #71622 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 08:20 AM
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Any one compare the multieqXT to the MCACC from pioneer? Im having a hard time trying to decide between the x2000 and a pioneer sc-71 recievers. They both offer the same features. pioneer has a slightly warmer cleaner sound but both sound good. The Denons less money, I just worry the room correction will suck on the Pioneer. My Yamahas Yapo did an ok job but I had to tweek it. From what I understand the denons is either on or off, there is no middle ground to modify the settings.
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post #71623 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
Any one compare the multieqXT to the MCACC from pioneer? Im having a hard time trying to decide between the x2000 and a pioneer sc-71 recievers. They both offer the same features. pioneer has a slightly warmer cleaner sound but both sound good. The Denons less money, I just worry the room correction will suck on the Pioneer. My Yamahas Yapo did an ok job but I had to tweek it. From what I understand the denons is either on or off, there is no middle ground to modify the settings.
This (Russian) site has a comprehensive test of XT32 vs MCACC vs YPAO, with graphs etc. XT32 comprehensively beats MCACC. Of course XT is not XT32 by any means so the comparison is unfair, and MCACC has recently been updated I believe. But the test will give you a good idea of what is involved. Use google translate - it makes a reasonable job of it, in pidgin English.
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Last edited by kbarnes701; 06-26-2014 at 08:44 AM.
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post #71624 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 08:55 AM
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You don't. Read the FAQ answer - if you don't get an ambient noise warning then you are good to go.
That might be true, and it generally might be good enough in the overall scheme of things. But, ambient noise cannot possibly make the calibration better. It is still a good idea to minimize any you can hear yourself, and that cannot possibly hurt. So, winter or summer, I always turn my HVAC off during the calibration, as well as trying to eliminate other noises. I do not want it cycling on or off during the calibration. Even if a sudden unexpected intermittent noise - dog bark, car horn, airplane, telephone, etc. - occurs during a tone sweep, I would rather repeat that one mike position sweep than risk an inferior calibration result.

Call me obsessive, but I have heard anecdotal reports of issues, one from noted equipment reviewer Tony Cordesman. I was once in the middle of an hour long Pro calibration and there was a sudden downpour outside. The room was right beneath the roof, so it could be heard as a steady noise. I continued anyway with no warnings from Audyssey. But, the resulting calibration was poor, and a complete redo in better weather provided a much better result. Perhaps it was something other than the noise of the rain, but my calibration habits now are to eliminate external noise - steady or intermittent - as much as possible. It does not take long and there is no way it can make things worse.
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post #71625 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
ambient noise cannot possibly make the calibration better.
Can you point out where that was said?

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post #71626 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
That might be true, and it generally might be good enough in the overall scheme of things. But, ambient noise cannot possibly make the calibration better. It is still a good idea to minimize any you can hear yourself, and that cannot possibly hurt. So, winter or summer, I always turn my HVAC off during the calibration, as well as trying to eliminate other noises. I do not want it cycling on or off during the calibration. Even if a sudden unexpected intermittent noise - dog bark, car horn, airplane, telephone, etc. - occurs during a tone sweep, I would rather repeat that one mike position sweep than risk an inferior calibration result.
I agree. And the FAQ answer does say to turn things off where possible and to measure in a quiet room because, as you rightly say, it can do no harm. But Audyssey is adamant that the system will raise the level of the chirps three times to combat external noise and that unless you get a warning the calibration is good. Audyssey also is adamant that one-off loud noises such as a dog barking during a sweep isn’t a problem either because it will be recognised as anomalous. But yes, we agree - get the room as quiet as possible to start with.


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post #71627 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
This (Russian) site has a comprehensive test of XT32 vs MCACC vs YPAO, with graphs etc. XT32 comprehensively beats MCACC. Of course XT is not XT32 by any means so the comparison is unfair, and MCACC has recently been updated I believe. But the test will give you a good idea of what is involved. Use google translate - it makes a reasonable job of it, in pidgin English.
Does the EQ on the x2000 eq the sub? Or is that just the xt32?
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post #71628 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 09:37 AM
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Does the EQ on the x2000 eq the sub? Or is that just the xt32?
XT EQs the sub too. See this FAQ answer for the differences between the different flavours of Audyssey:

h)2. What is the difference between the various versions of MultEQ?
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post #71629 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
Can you point out where that was said?
Well, I may have been the first one to have said it quite that way. As Keith points out in the FAQ, external noises should be eliminated as much as possible. Chris has said the same. But, I would hope there is no debate on the logic of what I said. Are you suggesting more ambient noise can make the calibration better? Do you need an expert opinion to prove what I said?

I admitted I might take ambient noise elimination to a more than necessary degree. But, what exactly is the necessary degree to eliminate the ambient noise? You can reactively wait to see if Audyssey tells you there is too much noise, assuming it knows with full accuracy where to draw the line. Or, you can proactively eliminate noise sources before the calibration. What could be the possible harm in eliminating even more noise than Audyssey needs to do its thing? Answer: no possible harm, not on this planet.
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post #71630 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Well, I may have been the first one to have said it quite that way.
Got it.

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post #71631 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post
Well, I may have been the first one to have said it quite that way. As Keith points out in the FAQ, external noises should be eliminated as much as possible. Chris has said the same. But, I would hope there is no debate on the logic of what I said. Are you suggesting more ambient noise can make the calibration better? Do you need an expert opinion to prove what I said?

I admitted I might take ambient noise elimination to a more than necessary degree. But, what exactly is the necessary degree to eliminate the ambient noise? You can reactively wait to see if Audyssey tells you there is too much noise, assuming it knows with full accuracy where to draw the line. Or, you can proactively eliminate noise sources before the calibration. What could be the possible harm in eliminating even more noise than Audyssey needs to do its thing? Answer: no possible harm, not on this planet.
Nobody could reasonably disagree with your position in this, Fitz.


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post #71632 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 02:39 PM
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What could possibly cause a -4.0 subwoofer level one day and a -8.0 the next? I preformed the Audyssey setup procedure the same each time and didn't change anything with my equipment. Any ideas?
I solved my own problem... And you guys even already have it covered in the FAQs! Nicely done!

The difference is in the auto on/off feature of my subwoofer. When the sub is off and there is a slight delay in the initial chirps because it has to be woken up, the result is -4.0 in Audyssey. But when the sub is already on and there is no delay in the initial chirps, the result is -8.0 in Audyssey.

I can't really compare the two different results side by side, but I think I like the -4.0 results much better than the -8.0 results - even if I raise the subwoofer trim to -4.0 in my AVR. What else is Audyssey doing?
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post #71633 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by woody777 View Post
I solved my own problem... And you guys even already have it covered in the FAQs! Nicely done!

The difference is in the auto on/off feature of my subwoofer. When the sub is off and there is a slight delay in the initial chirps because it has to be woken up, the result is -4.0 in Audyssey. But when the sub is already on and there is no delay in the initial chirps, the result is -8.0 in Audyssey.

I can't really compare the two different results side by side, but I think I like the -4.0 results much better than the -8.0 results - even if I raise the subwoofer trim to -4.0 in my AVR. What else is Audyssey doing?
Good to hear your news woody, congrats!

Meantime, please allow me some further thoughts:

1. I never use auto wake-up on my sub due to reasons you have already described (its set to "off"). Moreover, I don't want my sub to "wake-up" but I like it being "woken up" and "ready-to-go" all time.

2. -8 dB trim on the sub seems to me to be a good option. You may consider to leave it "as is" for movies as that has been set up by Audyssey for film "reference level", yet you have a massive "allowance" from -8 dB to +12 dB (a range of 20 dB) when it comes to listening to music with bass sometimes being nowhere but ready to be boosted to taste.

3. Audyssey is doing a lot else. DynEQ compensates for ear characteristics, DynVolume is good for late night movie watching and to tame loud commercials, Audyssey LFC is there to tease neighbors when it comes to bass traveling through adjacent walls, and Audyssey DSX is there for you to discover.

Cheers, Feri


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post #71634 of 72388 Old 06-26-2014, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Good to hear your news woody, congrats!

Meantime, please allow me some further thoughts:

1. I never use auto wake-up on my sub due to reasons you have already described (its set to "off"). Moreover, I don't want my sub to "wake-up" but I like it being "woken up" and "ready-to-go" all time.

2. -8 dB trim on the sub seems to me to be a good option. You may consider to leave it "as is" for movies as that has been set up by Audyssey for film "reference level", yet you have a massive "allowance" from -8 dB to +12 dB (a range of 20 dB) when it comes to listening to music with bass sometimes being nowhere but ready to be boosted to taste.

3. Audyssey is doing a lot else. DynEQ compensates for ear characteristics, DynVolume is good for late night movie watching and to tame loud commercials, Audyssey LFC is there to tease neighbors when it comes to bass traveling through adjacent walls, and Audyssey DSX is there for you to discover.
Thanks! I appreciate the response!
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post #71635 of 72388 Old 06-27-2014, 09:47 AM
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One last question...

I know a lot of people like to raise the center channel slightly (especially if they raise the subwoofer), but Audyssey is actually lowering my center channel by -2db. Audyssey set the center channel at +3db according to the parameter check menu, but in the channel level menu the center channel is set at +1db. The only settings I changed post Audyssey is large to small and all crossovers raised to 80. Any idea why this would happen?
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post #71636 of 72388 Old 06-27-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by woody777 View Post
One last question...

I know a lot of people like to raise the center channel slightly (especially if they raise the subwoofer), but Audyssey is actually lowering my center channel by -2db. Audyssey set the center channel at +3db according to the parameter check menu, but in the channel level menu the center channel is set at +1db. The only settings I changed post Audyssey is large to small and all crossovers raised to 80. Any idea why this would happen?
I have had some similar problems since "re-running" Audyssey again to re-balance my left surround channel which was about 3-4 db low prior to recalibrating. (It's restored now) Here is what is confusing me: when I check the "Audyssey parameters" I find that my front L & R speakers are listed as "full band" and in the "configuration" menu they are set to Large, while in the "Manual" set-up menu, my front L &R speakers are set to small with an xover of 80hz, which is what I changed them to following my last calibration. Other than this, the center is small with a 90hz xover and the surrounds are small with 110 hz xovers in both manual set-up and Audyssey. So what is going on here? Which settings do I trust? Shouldn't they be the same? My Velodyne sub now shows a -3.5db setting, which I'm told is acceptable, but the bass seems to be a little boomy. I changed the "LPF fpr LFE" to 80 hz. Will this help? And, if not, just increase the negative db vol setting from -3.5 to maybe -4.0? Also, I have always felt that the surround levels as set by Audyssey are too high. What is the best way to deal with this? Just manually reduce the levels on the surrounds by a few db? And, will this adversely affect the overall calibration? BTW, my receiver is a Marantz SR7007. Thanks!
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post #71637 of 72388 Old 06-27-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by William Moore View Post
I have had some similar problems since "re-running" Audyssey again to re-balance my left surround channel which was about 3-4 db low prior to recalibrating. (It's restored now) Here is what is confusing me: when I check the "Audyssey parameters" I find that my front L & R speakers are listed as "full band" and in the "configuration" menu they are set to Large, while in the "Manual" set-up menu, my front L &R speakers are set to small with an xover of 80hz, which is what I changed them to following my last calibration. Other than this, the center is small with a 90hz xover and the surrounds are small with 110 hz xovers in both manual set-up and Audyssey. So what is going on here? Which settings do I trust? Shouldn't they be the same? My Velodyne sub now shows a -3.5db setting, which I'm told is acceptable, but the bass seems to be a little boomy. I changed the "LPF fpr LFE" to 80 hz. Will this help? And, if not, just increase the negative db vol setting from -3.5 to maybe -4.0? Also, I have always felt that the surround levels as set by Audyssey are too high. What is the best way to deal with this? Just manually reduce the levels on the surrounds by a few db? And, will this adversely affect the overall calibration? BTW, my receiver is a Marantz SR7007. Thanks!
Oopps! I forgot one question. Should I turn off Dynamic EQ? My Dynamic Volume has always been off, since I don't need it. Thanks again!
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post #71638 of 72388 Old 06-27-2014, 11:56 PM
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Oopps! I forgot one question. Should I turn off Dynamic EQ? My Dynamic Volume has always been off, since I don't need it. Thanks again!
Hi. Leave LPF/LFE at 120 hz and raise the sub trim to 0, and of course turn dynEQ OFF and try how it sounds . I have dynEQ disabled and a +6 db boost to my subs and it sound very good no boomines at all...if i listen at around -20 and lower (quieter) then i enable dynEQ but with -10db offset as i dont like the boosted surronds that dynEQ applies without offset. Try it with some scenes and report back. Good luck
I have a marantz sr7008 and if you chek under speakers (manual) menu this is are the right settings. Put all speakers as small and do not lower the crossover settings that audyssey sets (you can put it higer if you wish but do not put it lower). If you have checked the speakers under audyssey menu then this are the setting that audyssey set/found them (they are just for your reference if you change something and then you cant remember how audyssey sets it). Hope this helps.
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post #71639 of 72388 Old 06-28-2014, 06:27 AM
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Hi. Leave LPF/LFE at 120 hz and raise the sub trim to 0, and of course turn dynEQ OFF and try how it sounds . I have dynEQ disabled and a +6 db boost to my subs and it sound very good no boomines at all...if i listen at around -20 and lower (quieter) then i enable dynEQ but with -10db offset as i dont like the boosted surronds that dynEQ applies without offset. Try it with some scenes and report back. Good luck
I have a marantz sr7008 and if you chek under speakers (manual) menu this is are the right settings. Put all speakers as small and do not lower the crossover settings that audyssey sets (you can put it higer if you wish but do not put it lower). If you have checked the speakers under audyssey menu then this are the setting that audyssey set/found them (they are just for your reference if you change something and then you cant remember how audyssey sets it). Hope this helps.
I also have a 7008, and the only thing that I would add to William Moore's answer is that the last time I ran Audyssey, I noticed that when I went into Manual, my crossovers had already defaulted to (or simply remained at) my previous settings for them. The current calibration settings are the ones to trust and then reset manually from there. If you change anything in the room, or even vary microphone positions a little between runs (which is highly likely), your recommended crossover points may also change. Nothing had changed in terms of recommended crossovers in my case, and I had assumed that was the reason that they defaulted to my previous settings. But your experience seems to indicate otherwise, so be sure to double-check and then rely on your latest calibration results for any manual resetting. This may just be an idiosyncrasy of Marantz receivers, but it is definitely something to be aware of.

Last edited by mthomas47; 06-28-2014 at 06:41 AM.
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post #71640 of 72388 Old 06-28-2014, 11:23 AM
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Hi. Leave LPF/LFE at 120 hz and raise the sub trim to 0, and of course turn dynEQ OFF and try how it sounds . I have dynEQ disabled and a +6 db boost to my subs and it sound very good no boomines at all...if i listen at around -20 and lower (quieter) then i enable dynEQ but with -10db offset as i dont like the boosted surronds that dynEQ applies without offset. Try it with some scenes and report back. Good luck
I have a marantz sr7008 and if you chek under speakers (manual) menu this is are the right settings. Put all speakers as small and do not lower the crossover settings that audyssey sets (you can put it higer if you wish but do not put it lower). If you have checked the speakers under audyssey menu then this are the setting that audyssey set/found them (they are just for your reference if you change something and then you cant remember how audyssey sets it). Hope this helps.
If I raise the sub trim to "0", won't this make the sub even louder than it is now? And what is the "offset" you speak of? Also, if Audyssey sets my front L&R speakers to "Full Range" and I change them to "Small" in the manual set-up, what is the crossover point for these 2 speakers?
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