"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2389 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #71641 of 72851 Old 06-28-2014, 02:01 PM
Senior Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Moore View Post
If I raise the sub trim to "0", won't this make the sub even louder than it is now? And what is the "offset" you speak of? Also, if Audyssey sets my front L&R speakers to "Full Range" and I change them to "Small" in the manual set-up, what is the crossover point for these 2 speakers?
Your -3.5db setting for the sub should be fine from a calibration standpoint, but you can adjust it either up or down to taste. And yes, adding more sub volume would probably exacerbate the problem you are perceiving. The "boomy" quality you mention combined with your feeling that the surrounds are too loud could perhaps be attributed to DynEQ. I think you said you had been leaving it on and that was when an offset was suggested. The offset feature is right under DynEQ in your menu. Try various offset settings, and if you like, try DynEQ "Off" to find out what works best in your room and for your preferences. Finally, if you want to set your speakers to "Small" go with the recommended crossover of 80 (I believe you said that hasn't changed). You can always experiment with raising them, but not lowering, if you want to. The FAQ has a lot of useful information about all of this (including the reference level offset) if you get a chance to do some reading.

Last edited by mthomas47; 06-28-2014 at 02:10 PM.
mthomas47 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #71642 of 72851 Old 06-28-2014, 02:45 PM
 
William Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Your -3.5db setting for the sub should be fine from a calibration standpoint, but you can adjust it either up or down to taste. And yes, adding more sub volume would probably exacerbate the problem you are perceiving. The "boomy" quality you mention combined with your feeling that the surrounds are too loud could perhaps be attributed to DynEQ. I think you said you had been leaving it on and that was when an offset was suggested. The offset feature is right under DynEQ in your menu. Try various offset settings, and if you like, try DynEQ "Off" to find out what works best in your room and for your preferences. Finally, if you want to set your speakers to "Small" go with the recommended crossover of 80 (I believe you said that hasn't changed). You can always experiment with raising them, but not lowering, if you want to. The FAQ has a lot of useful information about all of this (including the reference level offset) if you get a chance to do some reading.
OK, if I don't make any level adjustment on the sub, should I go back to the original 120 hz in the LFE setting or leave it @ 80hz. I have never seen that "offset" option under the Dynamic EQ menu setting, but I'll check it out. I'm assuming that the "offset" is just a level reduction for what the Dynamic EQ is doing, in a manner of speaking. Or not? I have read some of the FAQ previously and other Audyssey info, but I have a problem retaining all this stuff for very long. Too many "senior moments," I guess. I'll re-read some of it now. Thanks!
William Moore is offline  
post #71643 of 72851 Old 06-28-2014, 03:51 PM
Senior Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Moore View Post
OK, if I don't make any level adjustment on the sub, should I go back to the original 120 hz in the LFE setting or leave it @ 80hz. I have never seen that "offset" option under the Dynamic EQ menu setting, but I'll check it out. I'm assuming that the "offset" is just a level reduction for what the Dynamic EQ is doing, in a manner of speaking. Or not? I have read some of the FAQ previously and other Audyssey info, but I have a problem retaining all this stuff for very long. Too many "senior moments," I guess. I'll re-read some of it now. Thanks!
You are very welcome! Funny thing about those "senior moments" isn't it? Twenty years ago I didn't really notice them as much.

There is a good section in the FAQ about the LFE setting too. I like 80hz; others prefer 120hz. If you want to experiment, try both to find out whether you can hear a difference.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #71644 of 72851 Old 06-28-2014, 05:46 PM
Senior Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

... There is a good section in the FAQ about the LFE setting too. I like 80hz; others prefer 120hz. If you want to experiment, try both to find out whether you can hear a difference.
Some movies have quite a bit of LFE info between 80 and 120Hz ... others, hardly any.

I futzed around with the settings for a few months, and, for movies, settled on the conventional LFE LPF at 120 Hz, and the regular xover between all "small " speakers and the sub at the more or less standard 80 Hz for speakers that have no problem getting down to 80 Hz. For music, I sometimes move the regular xover down to 40 Hz (still no problem), or turn the sub off entirely, and run the RF and RL at "large." That's the way I'm listening to Rubenstein's Chopin Nocturnes right now. I would never listen to a movie that way, because of the LFE.
garygarrison is offline  
post #71645 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 06:52 AM
Senior Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Some movies have quite a bit of LFE info between 80 and 120Hz ... others, hardly any.

I futzed around with the settings for a few months, and, for movies, settled on the conventional LFE LPF at 120 Hz, and the regular xover between all "small " speakers and the sub at the more or less standard 80 Hz for speakers that have no problem getting down to 80 Hz. For music, I sometimes move the regular xover down to 40 Hz (still no problem), or turn the sub off entirely, and run the RF and RL at "large." That's the way I'm listening to Rubenstein's Chopin Nocturnes right now. I would never listen to a movie that way, because of the LFE.
That sounds like a good approach. I do something similar, rarely running the sub for music. But my compromise is a little different for movies. I just leave the LPF at 80hz, accepting that I am probably losing occasional content between 80 and 120, but believing that I am gaining clarity and tighter bass for what remains. Unfortunately, I think most of these approaches involve a compromise in one direction or another.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #71646 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 10:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cfraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto area, Canada
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
... I just leave the LPF at 80hz, accepting that I am probably losing occasional content between 80 and 120...
Just a reminder that filters have slopes, so you aren't "losing" anything, you would just be hearing it at a reduced level than otherwise.
mthomas47 likes this.
cfraser is offline  
post #71647 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 11:01 AM
Senior Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
Just a reminder that filters have slopes, so you aren't "losing" anything, you would just be hearing it at a reduced level than otherwise.
That's a good point, thanks! See what I mean about "senior moments"?
mthomas47 is offline  
post #71648 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 03:19 PM
Senior Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That sounds like a good approach. I do something similar, rarely running the sub for music. But my compromise is a little different for movies. I just leave the LPF at 80hz, accepting that I am probably losing occasional content between 80 and 120, but believing that I am gaining clarity and tighter bass for what remains. Unfortunately, I think most of these approaches involve a compromise in one direction or another.
I value tightness of bass in music, but not as much in sound effects. Is it true that, within the bounds of filter slopes, if you crossover all channels set for "small" to the sub at 80 Hz, but at the same time have the low pass filter for LFE set for 120 Hz , that, in general (or entirely?), all music above about 80 Hz in the movie will be sent to the (hopefully tight, clear) main speakers, and that all sound effects below about 120 will be sent to the sub only? I've never been clear on whether any bass sound effects are sent to the main speakers at all, with a conventionally set up 5.1/7.1.
garygarrison is offline  
post #71649 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 03:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I value tightness of bass in music, but not as much in sound effects.
There should be no difference between "bass in music" and "sound effects". Both are electric signals the AVR processes and sends to the speakers to create SP (Sound Pressure) without knowing which is which. Room correction systems like Audyssey take care of speaker/room interactions regardless of what program materials we are playing.
mogorf is online now  
post #71650 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 03:52 PM
Senior Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 294
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 46 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I value tightness of bass in music, but not as much in sound effects. Is it true that, within the bounds of filter slopes, if you crossover all channels set for "small" to the sub at 80 Hz, but at the same time have the low pass filter for LFE set for 120 Hz , that, in general (or entirely?), all music above about 80 Hz in the movie will be sent to the (hopefully tight, clear) main speakers, and that all sound effects below about 120 will be sent to the sub only? I've never been clear on whether any bass sound effects are sent to the main speakers at all, with a conventionally set up 5.1/7.1.
I'm not entirely sure about that, so if someone else can help clarify this it would be great. I assume that by "sound effects" you are talking strictly about effects in the LFE channel. I believe I have read that with music, it's a crap-shoot, with LFE material sometimes leaking into the other channels. That may also be true for some TV shows. But I have always understood that most movies are mixed under much tighter conditions (or more standardized conditions, anyway) and that LFE content is intentionally restricted to the subs when the mains are configured as "Small". I would hesitate to say that it could never happen with respect to almost anything, but it should be at least uncommon for LFE material to leak into other speakers with the mains set to small.

If anyone has a more definitive answer, please jump in.
mthomas47 is offline  
post #71651 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I'm not entirely sure about that, so if someone else can help clarify this it would be great. I assume that by "sound effects" you are talking strictly about effects in the LFE channel. I believe I have read that with music, it's a crap-shoot, with LFE material sometimes leaking into the other channels. That may also be true for some TV shows. But I have always understood that most movies are mixed under much tighter conditions (or more standardized conditions, anyway) and that LFE content is intentionally restricted to the subs when the mains are configured as "Small". I would hesitate to say that it could never happen with respect to almost anything, but it should be at least uncommon for LFE material to leak into other speakers with the mains set to small.

If anyone has a more definitive answer, please jump in.
If you have a system without a subwoofer and you set Mains (front L&Rs) to Large you will have a chance to have LFE redirected to your Mains. (Look up the Manual of your specific AVR for details.)

LFE (the .1 channel) material does not "leak" into other channels by itself, even true for "some" TV shows.

But if you have at least one subwoofer in your system and all satellites are set to Small with a crossover (typically 80 Hz) you are good to go.

Small vs. Large is an interesting topic. Look for a blog in my sig.

Last edited by mogorf; 06-29-2014 at 04:10 PM.
mogorf is online now  
post #71652 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 04:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
RapalloAV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 1,879
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 141 Post(s)
Liked: 56
They say that XT32 EQs the bass better than any of the other systems as it measures lower than the rest. Does anyone know if Onkyo/Integras new replacement EQ system AccuEQ measures the bass as low as Audysseys?
RapalloAV is offline  
post #71653 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
They say that XT32 EQs the bass better than any of the other systems as it measures lower than the rest. Does anyone know if Onkyo/Integras new replacement EQ system AccuEQ measures the bass as low as Audysseys?
Murray, every implementation of Audyssey, known as of today, EQ's down to 10 Hz or to the lowest detected -3 dB roll-off point of a subwoofer, which ever is higher. As regards the "lousy" new replacement EQ of Onkyo/Integra called AccuEQ I'm also "all ears open".
mogorf is online now  
post #71654 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 05:24 PM
Senior Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
If you have a system without a subwoofer and you set Mains (front L&Rs) to Large you will have a chance to have LFE redirected to your Mains. (Look up the Manual of your specific AVR for details.)

LFE (the .1 channel) material does not "leak" into other channels by itself, even true for "some" TV shows.

But if you have at least one subwoofer in your system and all satellites are set to Small with a crossover (typically 80 Hz) you are good to go.

Small vs. Large is an interesting topic. Look for a blog in my sig.
I guess what I mean is if you have a system with a subwoofer, and the subwoofer in the AVR menu is set for "on," and the LPF for LFE is set for 120 Hz, is all of the LFE below 120 that the studio put in the movie sent out through the AVR's subwoofer output to the sub, and none of it sent to the main LF, C, RF, and surround speakers?
garygarrison is offline  
post #71655 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 05:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
JHAz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,036
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I guess what I mean is if you have a system with a subwoofer, and the subwoofer in the AVR menu is set for "on," and the LPF for LFE is set for 120 Hz, is all of the LFE below 120 that the studio put in the movie sent out through the AVR's subwoofer output to the sub, and none of it sent to the main LF, C, RF, and surround speakers?
Nope. Go to the movies w bass thread and you will see that commonly the low frequencies are in left and right plus on LFE.
JHAz is offline  
post #71656 of 72851 Old 06-29-2014, 06:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 3,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 167 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post
Nope. Go to the movies w bass thread and you will see that commonly the low frequencies are in left and right plus on LFE.
Actually he is correct. The setup he mentioned allows ALL of the LFE to be heard, as in the dedicated .1 channel. None of the LFE is routed to other channels.

But yes there is bass mixed into all channels in addition to the LFE channel.

Last edited by primetimeguy; 06-29-2014 at 06:08 PM.
primetimeguy is online now  
post #71657 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 08:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
IgorZep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Murray, every implementation of Audyssey, known as of today, EQ's down to 10 Hz or to the lowest detected -3 dB roll-off point of a subwoofer, which ever is higher.
Except 2EQ that doesn't EQ sub at all. And for satellites only XT32 can go that low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
As regards the "lousy" new replacement EQ of Onkyo/Integra called AccuEQ I'm also "all ears open".
It doesn't EQ fronts... and doesn't EQ sub... at all, according to the spec (they call it "the biggest strength")... so AccuEQ is no room EQ
KK in CT likes this.
IgorZep is offline  
post #71658 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 09:44 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,986
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1129 Post(s)
Liked: 1576
Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I guess what I mean is if you have a system with a subwoofer, and the subwoofer in the AVR menu is set for "on," and the LPF for LFE is set for 120 Hz, is all of the LFE below 120 that the studio put in the movie sent out through the AVR's subwoofer output to the sub, and none of it sent to the main LF, C, RF, and surround speakers?
Correct. The LPF for LFE is just an LPF, not a crossover. The ONLY way that LFE content will get to something other than the subwoofer with virtually any modern processor is if there is no subwoofer setup in the speaker config. Then the LFE has nowhere else to go but the front mains.
batpig is offline  
post #71659 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 12:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Except 2EQ that doesn't EQ sub at all.
You are right, except the 2EQ. Thanks for clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
And for satellites only XT32 can go that low.

The Audyssey "chirp" starts at 10 Hz and goes all the way up to 24 kHz in any implementation of Audyssey, not only for XT32. I don't know of any different "chirps" as per Audyssey. Am I wrong here?

Last edited by mogorf; 06-30-2014 at 01:08 PM.
mogorf is online now  
post #71660 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 02:09 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,221
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

The Audyssey "chirp" starts at 10 Hz and goes all the way up to 24 kHz in any implementation of Audyssey, not only for XT32. I don't know of any different "chirps" as per Audyssey. Am I wrong here?
The chirps might start at 10Hz but that is a separate issue from whether Audyssey creates filters down to 10Hz. However, I understand that Audyssey does indeed look right down to 10Hz and if there is usable response at that frequency then it will, as you say, apply correction down to that frequency. Of course, it is rare for any system to play down to 10Hz, but it is by no means impossible (my own system, for example, is more or less flat to 10Hz and even below).

I also understand that creating filters down to 10Hz applies to all versions of Audyssey, but it can’t apply to 2EQ because the latter does not EQ the subs - so all versions other than 2EQ. But 2EQ is fundamentally useless in any event, IMO and should really be ignored.

If Igor, or anyone, has any information that would contradict this, then it would be very good to see it. Igor did say that in his understanding that it was only XT32 that applied filters to satellite speakers (thus drawing a distinction with subwoofers) but I have never, until his post, seen anything to indicate this.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #71661 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 05:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
IgorZep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Igor did say that in his understanding that it was only XT32 that applied filters to satellite speakers (thus drawing a distinction with subwoofers)
... with the same frequency resolution as as with subwoofer. All other MultEQs has lower relolution on satellite channels. Resolution = lowest corrected frequency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
but I have never, until his post, seen anything to indicate this.
Hmm.. you should know this Remember the flavors - 512x, 128x, 16x, 2x... The length of XT satellite filter kernel is around 11ms - it is clearly visible here:

This effectively means resolution (and also the lowest corrected frequency) is 1/0.011 ~ 90Hz... This is why Chris always recommended to raise crossovers to at least 80Hz for Audyssey flavors up to XT...
IgorZep is offline  
post #71662 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 05:42 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,221
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
... with the same frequency resolution as as with subwoofer. All other MultEQs has lower relolution on satellite channels. Resolution = lowest corrected frequency.


Hmm.. you should know this Remember the flavors - 512x, 128x, 16x, 2x... The length of XT satellite filter kernel is around 11ms - it is clearly visible here:

This effectively means resolution (and also the lowest corrected frequency) is 1/0.011 ~ 90Hz... This is why Chris always recommended to raise crossovers to at least 80Hz for Audyssey flavors up to XT...

This is interesting Igor (and I had forgotten the graphs in the Addendum!) - so when Chris K states:

"It is MultEQ that is in charge of creating the filters and it will look all the way down to 10 Hz. If it finds usable response down there then it will apply correction down to 10 Hz."
(Original is here)

... what is your interpretation of that? Is he wrong? (It wouldn't be the first time he has (inadvertently) made incorrect statements about how Audyssey works, as we know - usually he says that it's because the AVR manufacturer didn't execute Audyssey as intended).

If we can definitely clarify this, it would be a useful addition to the general Audyssey FAQ.

Last edited by kbarnes701; 06-30-2014 at 05:52 PM.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #71663 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 05:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 24,986
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1129 Post(s)
Liked: 1576
Well I think it depends on your perspective. Technically, the FIR filter will indeed operate on the entire impulse. So I don't think it's "incorrect" for him to say that MultEQ will try to correct down as far as it detects usable response. The question is how successful it will be at the task, and as we have seen only XT32 has enough resolution to really do any usable correction that low.

Just because XT32 is able to do it MUCH better than the lower level versions of MultEQ doesn't mean it's incorrect to state that those lower versions are trying to do it to.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #71664 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 05:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,221
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Well I think it depends on your perspective. Technically, the FIR filter will indeed operate on the entire impulse. So I don't think it's "incorrect" for him to say that MultEQ will try to correct down as far as it detects usable response. The question is how successful it will be at the task, and as we have seen only XT32 has enough resolution to really do any usable correction that low.

Just because XT32 is able to do it MUCH better than the lower level versions of MultEQ doesn't mean it's incorrect to state that those lower versions are trying to do it to.
Well he doesn’t say it tries to correct down to 10Hz - he says it does. " If it finds usable response down there then it will apply correction down to 10 Hz."

Igor says it doesn't, and you are saying it doesn't. I am coming round to thinking that if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....

Last edited by kbarnes701; 06-30-2014 at 05:58 PM.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #71665 of 72851 Old 06-30-2014, 06:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
IgorZep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 679
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Obviously he means subwoofer when generalizing flavours of MultEQ. And I remember he was recommending multiple times to set crossovers 80Hz as there is not enough resolution for correcting this range on satellites (although he was using some other less technical words for explaining this). And after XT32 appeared he said that it is not necessary anymore, as now the satellites got the same filter resolution as the sub. If your search-fu is good enough you can find his replies on the topic here and on AskAudyssey...
IgorZep is offline  
post #71666 of 72851 Old 07-01-2014, 02:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,470
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 229 Post(s)
Liked: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Obviously he means subwoofer when generalizing flavours of MultEQ. And I remember he was recommending multiple times to set crossovers 80Hz as there is not enough resolution for correcting this range on satellites (although he was using some other less technical words for explaining this). And after XT32 appeared he said that it is not necessary anymore, as now the satellites got the same filter resolution as the sub. If your search-fu is good enough you can find his replies on the topic here and on AskAudyssey...
Let's put this in another way. When you apply a crossover of 80 Hz you need not care about satellites below that point anymore coz all contents are redirected to the sub channel having much higher resolution, i.e. correcting to much lower frequencies than in the satellite channels (expect XT32). The flavor of MultEQ kicks-in above the crossover frequency for satellites where obviously XT32 is the champ, second runner is XT and last is MultEQ.
mogorf is online now  
post #71667 of 72851 Old 07-01-2014, 04:05 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 19,221
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2214 Post(s)
Liked: 2106
Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Obviously he means subwoofer when generalizing flavours of MultEQ. And I remember he was recommending multiple times to set crossovers 80Hz as there is not enough resolution for correcting this range on satellites (although he was using some other less technical words for explaining this). And after XT32 appeared he said that it is not necessary anymore, as now the satellites got the same filter resolution as the sub. If your search-fu is good enough you can find his replies on the topic here and on AskAudyssey...
I remember Chris saying these things, so there is no need to search. I just seem to have forgotten! You are right - only XT32 creates filters down to 10Hz. Thanks for reminding us of this.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #71668 of 72851 Old 07-02-2014, 12:50 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,243
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 152
I happened to be reading the Marantz SR7009 thread, and under Audyssey XT32, they mention a feature I don't remember seeing before. What's CFL Pro? A typo for "LFC", or something new?


See below-
Technical characteristics of the Marantz SR7009:
- 11.2 amplifier compatible 3D and 4K
- 11 channels of discrete amplification:
- 11 x 200W (6ohm, 1kHz, 1% THD, 1ch driven)
- 11 x 165W (6ohm, 1kHz, 0.7% THD, 2ch driven)
- 11 x 125W (8ohm, 20Hz-20kHz, THD 0.08%)
- DTS HD Master, DTS 5.1, DTS ES, DTS 96/24, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Pro - Logic IIz, All Stereo, Auddysey DSX, DTS-NEO-X 11.2, and future 3D audio codecs
- MDAX2: improving lossy compressed audio streams
- 8 HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.0 inputs 3: ARC, Zone 2, 3D, Deep Color, xvColor, 1080/24p, CEC, & 4K Quad HD - -- Passthrough (2160p/60 4:4:4 and 10-bit, or 2160p / 24 and 12 bit 4:4:4)
- Pure Color: UHD 12-bit 4:4:4 and 24p (4:4:4 10-bit and 60 im / s)
- Sources 3/3 areas: ability to stream different connected via HDMI HDMI HDMI out + Zone 2 sources
- Compatible Remote Marantz bus
- Audyssey MultEQ XT32 (Audyssey Pro compatible), Dynamic Volume, Dynamic EQ, and CFL Pro


The OP is here:
Marantz SR7009

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:

http://www.avsforum.com/...


Last edited by sdrucker; 07-02-2014 at 12:55 PM.
sdrucker is offline  
post #71669 of 72851 Old 07-02-2014, 07:56 PM
Senior Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
Technical characteristics of the Marantz SR7009:

- 11 channels of discrete amplification:
- 11 x 200W (6ohm, 1kHz, 1% THD, 1ch driven)

- 11 x 125W (8ohm, 20Hz-20kHz, THD 0.08%)
1 ch driven? Here Marantz takes the cake in trying to maximize the appearance of power output. I guess it might be useful to all those mono lovers out there who don't mind 1% distortion at 1K, through 1 channel.

I'm assuming that the 125W spec is for 11 channels driven, even though they don't say so ???
garygarrison is offline  
post #71670 of 72851 Old 07-03-2014, 12:37 AM
Advanced Member
 
Ganymed4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 640
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I remember Chris saying these things, so there is no need to search. I just seem to have forgotten! You are right - only XT32 creates filters down to 10Hz. Thanks for reminding us of this.
This is a very interesting but I think relatively theoretical discussion, if you think about the wavelength of a 10 Hz tone. It is a nice marketing move of Audyssey, but I think, that even if a subwoofer could reproduce a 10 Hz tone with enough power, it would not matter how this sounds because you would best be able to feel it but not to hear the tone.
I can walk about 30 to 40 ft to the back wall of my HT and I can hear much lower and more bass there. This is already way out from my MLP and all other listening positions in my HT. This distance equals to a ~30 Hz wavelength.
Honestly, I don't care about 10 Hz in a normal listening environment, but it is nice, that Audssey can do this. Good to know.
Ganymed4 is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H
Gear in this thread - Kht1005 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off