"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2391 - AVS Forum
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post #71701 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I am told by The Management that there is a bug in vBulletin which can make links take people to the wrong place if they have set the number of posts per page to anything other than the default (30). This would perhaps explain why some of us get sent to the right post and others don't. I would recommend that until this bug is fixed, people use the default settings.

EDIT. Once you have set the posts per page to default, close your browser and then open it again.
Keith,
Saw your post this morning and gave it a try, but I'm not sure that I'm winding up at the correct place.

If I set the posts/page to "default" or manually to 30 I wind up at post 19950 which doesn't appear to be the post with the FAQ unless I'm mistaken. If I try the "101" link I also wind up at 19950. The "REW" and "Distance" links work correctly.

I tried several different posts/page settings just to see what would happen. In all cases the "REW" and "Distance" links worked correctly but the "FAQ" and "101" links behaved as follows:

40 p/p winds up at post 2700
100 p/p winds up at post 100
5 p/p winds up at post 68120

This behavior was the same in Firefox and IE. Let me know if they need any other testing.
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post #71702 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by davelr View Post
Keith,
Saw your post this morning and gave it a try, but I'm not sure that I'm winding up at the correct place.

If I set the posts/page to "default" or manually to 30 I wind up at post 19950 which doesn't appear to be the post with the FAQ unless I'm mistaken. If I try the "101" link I also wind up at 19950. The "REW" and "Distance" links work correctly.

I tried several different posts/page settings just to see what would happen. In all cases the "REW" and "Distance" links worked correctly but the "FAQ" and "101" links behaved as follows:

40 p/p winds up at post 2700
100 p/p winds up at post 100
5 p/p winds up at post 68120

This behavior was the same in Firefox and IE. Let me know if they need any other testing.
Thanks. It is odd behavior and obviously not as intended. If you would post your above comments here, I understand that VerticalScope are monitoring this thread. It is clearly very important on a forum that links work as intended or helping other people is going to be a lottery.

I hope that link takes you to a thread called "Audyssey thread link testing...."
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post #71703 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by davelr View Post
Keith,
Saw your post this morning and gave it a try, but I'm not sure that I'm winding up at the correct place.

If I set the posts/page to "default" or manually to 30 I wind up at post 19950 which doesn't appear to be the post with the FAQ unless I'm mistaken. If I try the "101" link I also wind up at 19950. The "REW" and "Distance" links work correctly.

I tried several different posts/page settings just to see what would happen. In all cases the "REW" and "Distance" links worked correctly but the "FAQ" and "101" links behaved as follows:

40 p/p winds up at post 2700
100 p/p winds up at post 100
5 p/p winds up at post 68120

This behavior was the same in Firefox and IE. Let me know if they need any other testing.
Would you do me a favour and try the sig links for the FAQ and 101 again? I have hacked the links to point specifically to the correct posts, rather than rely on the vBulletin database lookup to reference it correctly. It should even work for people whose posts-per-page setting isn’t the default, although I suggest leaving them as the default.
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post #71704 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
Where is the FAQ?

The link in kbarnes701's signature goes here:
"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
(which isn't the FAQ). The title of this thread directs people to post 51779, which also isn't the FAQ.

I'm trying to help a newbie locate the FAQ.

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
It takes me to post 69001 of 71682 Old 01-18-2014, 12:05 PM, which is a post of Feri's quoting you and answering with his +1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

If you have been happy with your sound quality, then don't let the recent comments about the limitations of XT put you off - continue to enjoy it.

+1. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelr View Post
Both the "FAQ" and "Setup Guide" links in Keith's signature take me to post #2685 . This is in both IE 11 and Firefox. The "Step by Step" and "Distance" links are ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelr View Post
Not sure, but it seems to be behaving as if it's dependent on the total number of posts. When I just tried them after you last post they both took me to 2690.

edit - That's consistent. After my post I went to 2691

edit 2 - I still now wind up at 2691 even after the edits. I just noticed that this is post 71691 which is exactly 69000 posts later than 2691. Maybe just coincidence but possible error in BB software?
Would you please try the link in my sig to the FAQ and 101 again. It should work for you now. Let me know if it does/n't. Thanks.
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post #71705 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 11:32 AM
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Not Daveir - but I tried the FAQ & 101 links via Chrome & they both linked as intended
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post #71706 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Thanks. It is odd behavior and obviously not as intended. If you would post your above comments here, I understand that VerticalScope are monitoring this thread. It is clearly very important on a forum that links work as intended or helping other people is going to be a lottery.

I hope that link takes you to a thread called "Audyssey thread link testing...."
Yup, that link worked. Comments posted.
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post #71707 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Would you do me a favour and try the sig links for the FAQ and 101 again? I have hacked the links to point specifically to the correct posts, rather than rely on the vBulletin database lookup to reference it correctly. It should even work for people whose posts-per-page setting isn’t the default, although I suggest leaving them as the default.
Keith, sorry didn't see this one until after I posted on the testing site. The FAQ and 101 links DID work correctly for me this time. Congratulations!
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post #71708 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by davelr View Post
Keith, sorry didn't see this one until after I posted on the testing site. The FAQ and 101 links DID work correctly for me this time. Congratulations!
Thanks. The post in the post testing forum is still useful though because VirtualScope are monitoring that thread - the more info they have the better. Glad it's working OK now. @Woobieizer in the other thread is the guy to thank really - he has done a terrific job of sleuthing it.
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post #71709 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Would you please try the link in my sig to the FAQ and 101 again. It should work for you now. Let me know if it does/n't. Thanks.
The link in your Sig now takes me to the Audyssey FAQ, so whatever was wrong, isn't...

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post #71710 of 72568 Old 07-07-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
The link in your Sig now takes me to the Audyssey FAQ, so whatever was wrong, isn't...
Excellent. The fix I was told about works then! Thanks for the feedback.
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post #71711 of 72568 Old 07-08-2014, 11:02 AM
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Is anybody running Audyssey XT32 on an AVR/pre-pro where they're sure the DSP processor doesn't "downsample" to 48kHz (Audyssey enabled!)? I am curious as to what the piece of equipment is, as it's not obvious to me how to determine this from specs as it's not explicitly stated where I've looked. [Though I will guess that any gear that doesn't do the DS would make a big deal of it since it's uncommon, so kind of a reverse inferrence.] Thanks.

It is something I've been thinking about, now that there are some movies with 96kHz audio, but more relevant to me for my question, lots more BD mch audio discs with 96kHz (even 192kHz) audio. I do not actually think my mch audio system pre-pro is good enough for anything better than 48kHz really, though my stereo system is worthy (but that's not the subject lol). You know how it is: you play some 96kHz stuff without Audyssey, and you play it with Audyssey (DSed to 48) and of course it sounds different. You should say that even 48kHz material is better with Audyssey than without, otherwise it might (maybe you need the DV e.g.) be kinda pointless to even use it.

So it's difficult to make a good judgment with what I have. At this stage of my room's development, I prefer XT32 enabled because of what it does below 500Hz (say), but since it's not band selectable, then I have to prefer to have XT32 enabled for the mch music regardless of any DSing. Generally it's in the higher frequencies that I can more easily tell there's a higher sample rate, based on my stereo system, so I am missing this a bit in my mch/XT32 system. I am just wondering what my options in the market might be.
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post #71712 of 72568 Old 07-08-2014, 11:19 AM
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As far as I know there is no processor that doesn't have this limitation. That said, I think the evidence is pretty strong that it's a non-issue as a "limitation".

I think what you need to do -- instead of comparing apples to oranges with 96kHz without Audyssey vs. 48kHz with Audyssey -- is compare the same material sampled at 48kHz vs. 96kHz both WITHOUT any processing engaged, and see if you can even hear a difference. Leave Audyssey and any other stuff out of the equation, and just isolate the sample rate variable to determine if there is a difference at any audible level. There is software out there that will let you do a blind A/B comparison of two different digital audio tracks.

Theoretically, there should be no audible difference (assuming all else is equal in terms of quality of the master, sampling algorithm etc) so if you can't actually hear the difference between 96kHz and 48kHz with the same material... who cares?
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post #71713 of 72568 Old 07-08-2014, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
Is anybody running Audyssey XT32 on an AVR/pre-pro where they're sure the DSP processor doesn't "downsample" to 48kHz (Audyssey enabled!)? I am curious as to what the piece of equipment is, as it's not obvious to me how to determine this from specs as it's not explicitly stated where I've looked. [Though I will guess that any gear that doesn't do the DS would make a big deal of it since it's uncommon, so kind of a reverse inferrence.] Thanks.

It is something I've been thinking about, now that there are some movies with 96kHz audio, but more relevant to me for my question, lots more BD mch audio discs with 96kHz (even 192kHz) audio. I do not actually think my mch audio system pre-pro is good enough for anything better than 48kHz really, though my stereo system is worthy (but that's not the subject lol). You know how it is: you play some 96kHz stuff without Audyssey, and you play it with Audyssey (DSed to 48) and of course it sounds different. You should say that even 48kHz material is better with Audyssey than without, otherwise it might (maybe you need the DV e.g.) be kinda pointless to even use it.

So it's difficult to make a good judgment with what I have. At this stage of my room's development, I prefer XT32 enabled because of what it does below 500Hz (say), but since it's not band selectable, then I have to prefer to have XT32 enabled for the mch music regardless of any DSing. Generally it's in the higher frequencies that I can more easily tell there's a higher sample rate, based on my stereo system, so I am missing this a bit in my mch/XT32 system. I am just wondering what my options in the market might be.
Take a look at this article please.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...room-gain.html

Scroll down to the part "Notes on High Resolution Signal Processing" where Anthem D2 and Marantz AV8801 have been tested and compared in regards of down sampling to 48 kHz (in the Marantz) with Audyssey engaged or not. Interesting.

Last edited by mogorf; 07-08-2014 at 01:13 PM.
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post #71714 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Take a look at this article please.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...room-gain.html

Scroll down to the part "Notes on High Resolution Signal Processing" where Anthem D2 and Marantz AV8801 have been tested and compared in regards of down sampling to 48 kHz (in the Marantz) with Audyssey engaged or not. Interesting.

Wait. Someone cares about 30khz? I haven't heard a 20khz tone in probably 20 years! Can *any* human hear 30khz?

Should I be disappointed that my projector isn't putting out infrared light? (hmm, maybe it is and I can't tell...)

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post #71715 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 06:17 AM
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Wait. Someone cares about 30khz? I haven't heard a 20khz tone in probably 20 years! Can *any* human hear 30khz?
Wait. This issue is not about what we hear, but about "what you pay is what you get" or not. At the moment there is no clear picture as to which avr/avp downsamples incoming hi-rez audio files to 48 kHz during signal processing.
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post #71716 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 08:36 AM
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double

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post #71717 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 08:37 AM
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Nonetheless, if someone has a capable speaker that has a FR that extends down to, say, 50 Hz or even below, it is surprising to see Audyssey set a crossover to the subwoofer of 150Hz. It is also probably not the best XO setting.

This has been discussed many times in the Official Audyssey Thread but there has been no definitive answer as to why this happens.

One theory is that for some reason the Audyssey mic is hearing the F3 of your front speakers as being higher than would be expected. Try running the calibration again using slightly different mic positions. Stay within the general mic position guidelines but move the positions a few inches from where they were for the previous run. Sometimes, small room anomalies seem to have the potential to confuse Audyssey and moving the mic resolves it. Worth a try.

Also, there is the possibility that the position of the LR speakers places them in a room "null". So another thing to try is to move the LR speakers into different positions in the room, or conversely, move the seating positions forward or back a foot or so and then to run Audyssey again. A combination of these two suggestions gives a third option to try.

Quoted from the FAQ. Audyssey is currently setting my xover on my center speaker, an RC-62 ii, at 150hz. It never did that before but now I can't seem to get it back. I'm not sure what changes I may have made that affected it so much. Any further theories?

The speaker is on a cabinet on top of a couple of monitor isolation pads with the front edge overhanging the edge of the cabinet, and angled towards MLP. The wires are in tight and not out of phase.

Is it just a room null that may have been created by moving some furniture or something?

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post #71718 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 09:15 AM
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Moving furniture (unless it's your MLP) won't create a null. I'd do some near-field measurements of your center to make sure there's nothing wrong with the speaker itself.
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post #71719 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 10:09 AM
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Moving furniture (unless it's your MLP) won't create a null. I'd do some near-field measurements of your center to make sure there's nothing wrong with the speaker itself.
The MLP was shifted about 1' to the right. But I ran audyssey with multiple measurements. I'll try again with all 6 in the recommended locations and see what happens.

Also, I know a boom stand is recommended, but what is the issue with placing the mic on a stable, flat surface away from reflections and pointed up?

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post #71720 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 10:21 AM
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"placing on a flat surface" and "away from reflections" are mutually exclusive. that is precisely the issue.
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post #71721 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 11:07 AM
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For those who are bored , re-read my post about the Audyssey 48kHz thing. We are very experienced listeners, and are very free with our expletives about gear and different formats of music delivery, especially our own gear. I am the worst, you should hear what I say about my own stuff, but I (mostly) try to be polite about it on the forums!

I am 99% sure that just about everybody here would choose to listen to everything at 96kHz if everything (source) and all A/V gear came with that as the default (let's say it's 48 now). Whether it's "necessary" has pretty much nothing to do with anything discussed anywhere in this forum. I am coming from that place of what are my options, what's available to choose from.

So it looks like I'm "stuck" with 48kHz if I want to use Audyssey. FWIW I've promoted for years 48/20 as the default for music. This is a very satisfying format IMO (there are some music DVDs with it), plenty of dynamic range so that gear is the limitation and not the music format, and covers most people who aren't also bats, plus moves filter artifacts a bit farther away from what most can hear...so 48/24 (to be practical for computers) is fine with me. Better than that is also fine with me...

I will get to the provided links shortly, thanks.

Edit: I forgot to mention the "corollary" question of my Audyssey DSing question. It is hard to compare formats when you don't know what's DSing where in the reproduction chain, so you don't know exactly what you're listening to. My other question re this is not Audyssey-related, so I haven't asked it yet since I'm not sure where to. It has to do with whether basic BM also DSes to 48kHz, which might be more gear-specific/variable. Specifically, if I engage BM but not Audyssey in the pre-pro, does my DSP engine(s) also DS to 48kHz anyway? I am sure most people would not want to disengage BM even if they don't prefer Audyssey, so this may be even more practically moot.
And more: I bet Kal Rubinson has discussed this or knows about it...Stereophile's "Music in the Round", I will try to see if he has.
Don't forget this all has to do with the proliferation of >48kHz mch stuff in my music library lately, formerly was just a few stragglers and audiophile recordings that I don't listen to (for pleasure anyway)...

Last edited by cfraser; 07-09-2014 at 11:31 AM.
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post #71722 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 11:15 AM
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Have you attempted what I suggested to see if you can even hear a difference between 48kHz and 96kHz sample rates, irrespective of Audyssey (which introduces another variable)?

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post #71723 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
I am 99% sure that just about everybody here would choose to listen to everything at 96kHz if everything (source) and all A/V gear came with that as the default (let's say it's 48 now).
I'm finally a one percenter!

Edit: Darn, I misread that as 99% of everybody here...instead of 99% sure. Oh well.
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post #71724 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 12:47 PM
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Don't forget that very few tweeters can go that high. As a result, trying to play those high frequencies can cause audible distortion. On the other hand, most "high resolution" audio tracks have only noise or silence in the higher frequencies, so it's a moot point. The higher quality of the audio normally is due to more care having been taken during production.

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post #71725 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Don't forget that very few tweeters can go that high. As a result, trying to play those high frequencies can cause audible distortion. On the other hand, most "high resolution" audio tracks have only noise or silence in the higher frequencies, so it's a moot point. The higher quality of the audio normally is due to more care having been taken during production.
All true Selden, but coming back to the original question of cfraser, do you have any tangible idea how to check an avr/avp whether its down-rezing the incoming hi-rez signal to 48 kHz or not down-rezing?
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post #71726 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
"placing on a flat surface" and "away from reflections" are mutually exclusive. that is precisely the issue.
That makes sense. Thanks.

I have the little mic stand that came with the umik. I wonder if that will work.

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post #71727 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
All true Selden, but coming back to the original question of cfraser, do you have any tangible idea how to check an avr/avp whether its down-rezing the incoming hi-rez signal to 48 kHz or not down-rezing?
Input a high frequency sine-wave and look at what comes out.

"Look at" might be a little difficult for most people. To me, the obvious way to observe the resulting signal would be to connect an oscilloscope to an output -- either line-level or speaker-level. Obtaining an appropriate signal generator and an oscilloscope might be a little difficult for the average person: they're somewhat expensive.

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post #71728 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 01:31 PM
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a loopback directly from the output of the avr would work too methinks

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post #71729 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Input a high frequency sine-wave and look at what comes out.

"Look at" might be a little difficult for most people. To me, the obvious way to observe the resulting signal would be to connect an oscilloscope to an output -- either line-level or speaker-level. Obtaining an appropriate signal generator and an oscilloscope might be a little difficult for the average person: they're somewhat expensive.
Yeah, that seems a bit expensive to me, too. Anyhow, on the input side a high frequency signal (like 30 kHz) can be easily generated with the REW generator once Asio4all is selected and the sample rate is set to 96 kHz.


Last edited by mogorf; 07-09-2014 at 01:44 PM.
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post #71730 of 72568 Old 07-09-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
a loopback directly from the output of the avr would work too methinks
That's sounds good beast, ...any more details in mind?
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