"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2404 - AVS Forum
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post #72091 of 72388 Old 08-18-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Keith,

Great reviews of Dolby Atmos! Like a lot of other people, I particularly enjoyed your second, more in-depth review. I saw that you have already bought some new speakers. Have you also taken the plunge with an Atmos AVR yet? When you do, it will be interesting to read about your impressions of the Atmos/Audyssey interface.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike - thanks! I have pre-ordered a Denon X4100W - it will be here sometime in September I'm told. I will be installing the ceiling speakers the moment I have seen Dolby's custom installer setup guidelines, due to be released before CEDIA. I am also toying with Marantz as an alternative (my dealer is a friend so I have flexibility to change my mind )


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post #72092 of 72388 Old 08-24-2014, 03:31 PM
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No posts in 6 days? That is so unlike us. Is something wrong with the forum software?
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post #72093 of 72388 Old 08-24-2014, 04:21 PM
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Dolby Atmos...

EDIT: Because Dolby Atmos is very active nowadays; it must be the main reason why this excellent Official Audyssey thread is quieter nowadays.

Also, there is another thread called "AccuEQ versus Audyssey" and that thread too is very busy, very interesting, very passionate, and very informative.

In the last couple months Dolby Atmos is definitely the main interest, and the fact that Onkyo/Integra has abandoned Audyssey and replaced it with AccuEQ in their newer 2014 products (receivers and SSPs) is a huge wind shifting metamorphosis.

That's what I sincerely believe it's going on recently.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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Last edited by NorthSky; 08-24-2014 at 06:44 PM. Reason: EDIT
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post #72094 of 72388 Old 08-24-2014, 05:19 PM
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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

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post #72095 of 72388 Old 08-24-2014, 11:26 PM
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Hi,

I have a Marantz SR-7008 A/V receiver, paired with Monitor Audio Silver 1 Front and Center speakers and Monitor Audio Radius 90 surround speakers.

I have run the Audyssey setup, and then checked the resulting Equalizer spectrum. I noticed that for several of the speakers the audio level compensation was up to +/- 10 dB for certain frequency ranges. So I just wonder if it is normal for the audio level compensation to be that high (+/- 10 dB)?

Also, if you have a Marantz receiver (or some other A/V receiver), what does the Audyssey Equalizer spectrum look like for your setup?
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post #72096 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
No posts in 6 days? That is so unlike us. Is something wrong with the forum software?
This used to be one of the best threads on the whole of AVS until someone effectively killed it. What you're seeing is the result of that.


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post #72097 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 10:56 AM
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Okay, I did some more testing over the weekend and thought I would share.

Scratch my findings of adjusting all levels to 75dB After rerunning Audyssey, I left all channels alone except for the center channel (raised 1 dB) and the subs (raised 2dB). This does give better sound then my initial thought of level matching with my SPL meter. Thanks for the tips...or I should have stuck to the FAQ's

Of course DEQ does not work very well in my room so this will continue to stay off



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post #72098 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Hi,

I have a Marantz SR-7008 A/V receiver, paired with Monitor Audio Silver 1 Front and Center speakers and Monitor Audio Radius 90 surround speakers.

I have run the Audyssey setup, and then checked the resulting Equalizer spectrum. I noticed that for several of the speakers the audio level compensation was up to +/- 10 dB for certain frequency ranges. So I just wonder if it is normal for the audio level compensation to be that high (+/- 10 dB)?

Also, if you have a Marantz receiver (or some other A/V receiver), what does the Audyssey Equalizer spectrum look like for your setup?
I don't have a Marantz receiver with Audyssey MultEQ XT32, mine is much older (SR18EX). But I do have a pre/pro (DHC-80.3) with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 but no "Equalizer spectrum".

By 'Equalizer spectrum' do you mean the Audyssey EQ results from the Marantz GUI (on-screen display)?
If that is what you mean you cannot accurately rely on this type of very rough graph representation.
It is way off from a true representation of what Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is doing in EQuing your speakers.
Those graphs in Denon and Marantz receivers and SSPs would have been better not showing @ all, IMO.
And that's why Onkyo/Integra never implemented them in their products; instead they use that extra processing power in other places more beneficial for their customers.

For a much accurate representation of Audyssey you would need to use REW with your laptop and a mic.

I'm sure there are few places in the Audyssey Setup Guide where this have been discussed; the experts here would know which section(s). ...Or in the Audyssey FAQ.

* I believe those EQ graphs go from -20dB to +10dB and I would simply ignore them. ...So yes, it's normal; that they aren't accurate.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #72099 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
This used to be one of the best threads on the whole of AVS until someone effectively killed it. What you're seeing is the result of that.
Keith,

The question from Fjodor was also posted in the xoo8 owners thread and jdsmoothie gave a very succinct answer. But Fjodor's response to that post indicated that he needs more clarification. I looked in the FAQ to find a more detailed explanation of what those crude graphs represent, but couldn't find one. I think a good explanation of what the graphs are, and are not, would be a helpful addition to the FAQ. I seem to recall that the graphs represent more about the pre-Audyssey room/speaker interaction than the actual post-Audyssey equalization.

Edit: Bob gave a good answer, but I still wish someone could go into a little more detail for easy future reference.

Regards,
Mike


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post #72100 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 02:45 PM
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I believe that what those graphs show is basically a rough representation of some amount of boost and cut in certain regions of the frequency audio spectrum; they don't show the time domain that is also implemented with Audyssey's Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters.

* Even Chris discussed this subject in the past, and he agreed that they were more confusing than helping; simply just better to get rid of them (or ignoring them) as they look cool but they are of no real beneficial value, plus they use volatile processing power better directed somewhere else in the receiver or pre/pro.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #72101 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigham16 View Post
After rerunning Audyssey, I left all channels alone except for the center channel (raised 1 dB) and the subs (raised 2dB).
Actually such minimal adjustments of the center and the sub(s) may easily remain unnoticed when listening to real life contents compared to "real life" measurements.

Quote:
Of course DEQ does not work very well in my room so this will continue to stay off
DEQ is basically not a tool to work for in-room issues, but a tool to adjust perceived loudness to our human ears in any room, let alone, even outside whenever Master Volume is not at reference level. Wish we could scrap out the points that make you disappointed with DEQ. Care to expand a bit?

Cheers, Feri


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post #72102 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
they don't show the time domain that is also implemented with Audyssey's Finite Impulse Response (FIR) filters
Unfortunately the time domain is only exists in Audyssey marketing. Their filters are minimum-phase as in any PEQ and any time-domain information (excess-phase part of the response) is totally lost somewhere in the process of creating filters.
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post #72103 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Unfortunately the time domain is only exists in Audyssey marketing. Their filters are minimum-phase as in any PEQ and any time-domain information (excess-phase part of the response) is totally lost somewhere in the process of creating filters.
Is this Igor Zep? Referring to marketing hype is not his style. The real Igor Zep goes down to the roots in his explanations. Totally lost "somewhere" is a vague argument.

Igor? You've got homework to do for the benefit of all here on the Audyssey thread.

Seed for thought: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...tion-explained

Cheers, Feri


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post #72104 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
DEQ is basically not a tool to work for in-room issues, but a tool to adjust perceived loudness to our human ears in any room, let alone, even outside whenever Master Volume is not at reference level. Wish we could scrap out the points that make you disappointed with DEQ. Care to expand a bit?
Personally I found that DEQ is totally sounding off-balance. You can hear pumping and expiring @ some audio frequencies. ...It is leaving a very sour taste to my hears and equilibrium. Simply put it sounds real bad.
The bass is boosted in a very disagreeable kind of way, and the rest of the audio range sounds like echoes coming from a bathroom. ...Constipated.

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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Unfortunately the time domain is only exists in Audyssey marketing. Their filters are minimum-phase as in any PEQ and any time-domain information (excess-phase part of the response) is totally lost somewhere in the process of creating filters*.
Oh, that's not what they told us for many years. Thank you for keeping me up-to-date (was lost in cyber space from other galaxies).
- I might check Yamaha and Pioneer sound before embarking with Marantz. ...I like my sound to be smooth.
...And well resolved from the recordings.

* Filters, or taps?
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post #72105 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Three years old; does it still stand today?

* Methinks Igor knows more than what it truly appears... Markus also would know some' more.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #72106 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
You can hear pumping and expiring @ some audio frequencies. ...It is leaving a very sour taste to my hears and equilibrium. Simply put it sounds real bad.
Pumping? Honestly there have been many things bad said about DEQ, but pumping is the first time I hear from anyone.

Quote:
The bass is boosted in a very disagreeable kind of way, and the rest of the range sounds like echoes coming from a bathroom.
Why is it that I don't hear such a boosted bass and such a bathroom effect on my DEQ? Just thinkin' out loud!

Quote:
Oh, that's not what they told us for many years. Thank you for keeping me up-to-date (was lost in cyber space from other galaxies).
Do you always accept what a poster says immediately without a question?

Cheers, Feri


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post #72107 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Three years old; does it still stand today?

* Methinks Igor knows more than what it truly appears... Markus also would know some' more.
I think the creators know the most of their products. Asking them is FOC. (free of charge). Why not join FB Audyssey tech talk.

Cheers, Feri


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post #72108 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Pumping? Honestly there have been many things bad said about DEQ, but pumping is the first time I hear from anyone.
Hey, I'm me (not anyone), and I own my ears.

Quote:
Why is it that I don't hear such a boosted bass and such a bathroom effect on my DEQ? Just thinkin' out loud!
You don't live with me in me home in me surround sound room. We all hear differently; there, and over there, and here.

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Do you always accept what a poster says immediately without a question?
It's a good way to learn deeper; to see what follows...

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post #72109 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
I think the creators know the most of their products. Asking them is FOC. (free of charge). Why not join FB Audyssey tech talk.
Been there done that.

* Do you always believe what inventors told you?

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #72110 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Do you always accept what a poster says immediately without a question?
Measure your Audyssey filter (response at pre-outs), split it to the minimum-phase and excess-phase parts... No questions should be left after this step if you understand those terms well.
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post #72111 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Hey, I'm me (not anyone), and I own my ears.
What AVR/AVP with Audyssey DEQ on board do you have? Not doubting your own ears, but if DEQ is pumping for you its time for some troubleshooting indeed.

Cheers, Feri


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post #72112 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
Measure your Audyssey filter (response at pre-outs), split it to the minimum-phase and excess-phase parts... No questions should be left after this step if you understand those terms well.
Did you do that Igor? Then why not post the results for the benefit of all?

Cheers, Feri


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post #72113 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
What AVR/AVP with Audyssey DEQ on board do you have? Not doubting your own ears, but if DEQ is pumping for you its time for some troubleshooting indeed.
Post numero 72097

Ya, troubleshoot me, please.

Bests, ~ Robert § (Bob)

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post #72114 of 72388 Old 08-25-2014, 08:34 PM
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Quick question guys, would be thankful if you can help

I just ran Audussey using a boom mic stand and adapter as suggested, and it sounds great. Only problem is, I don't think the bass from the subwoofer is deep enough. I adjusted the volume to ensure audussey picks up a range from -3 to 3 db, as when i Put the volume at 9 o clock I was getting the max 12db. I only got to -3db when i put the volume really really low (almost to zero). The subwoofer is connected to my marantz receiver using a red/white audio cable. I manually adjusted the level on the subwoofer to +2 db as I read that would increase the bass

In terms of clarity, it sounds very crisp and nice. However, when the bass is very weak and not deep at all. I tried changing the sound settings to "music" and tried "movie" and "game" as well, but to no avail. Does anyone have any recommendations as to what I could do? I was thinking about running audussey with the volume at 9 o clock, so it will read -12 db, and manually adjusted it to +2 to +3 db, but for some reason I don't think that would make sense.

Thanks!
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post #72115 of 72388 Old 08-26-2014, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Post numero 72097

Ya, troubleshoot me, please.
Bob, the pumping you are hearing can not be attributed to DEQ (on any other loudness compensation method) since by theory it does not affect dynamic range, only the frequency response curve as MV + loud and soft passages change.

Troubleshooting pumping should be investigated elsewhere. How severe is it, BTW?

Cheers, Feri


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post #72116 of 72388 Old 08-26-2014, 02:39 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Personally I found that DEQ is totally sounding off-balance.
You absolutely MUST use RLO together with DEQ to get adequate result if listening to any content besides the movies that are recorded with standardized levels. DEQ can be a way overly aggressive if RLO is not set according to the content.
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post #72117 of 72388 Old 08-26-2014, 03:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Keith,

The question from Fjodor was also posted in the xoo8 owners thread and jdsmoothie gave a very succinct answer. But Fjodor's response to that post indicated that he needs more clarification. I looked in the FAQ to find a more detailed explanation of what those crude graphs represent, but couldn't find one. I think a good explanation of what the graphs are, and are not, would be a helpful addition to the FAQ. I seem to recall that the graphs represent more about the pre-Audyssey room/speaker interaction than the actual post-Audyssey equalization.

Edit: Bob gave a good answer, but I still wish someone could go into a little more detail for easy future reference.

Regards,
Mike
Mike, I'm lost here - I went back three pages in this thread and there are no posts by Fjodor - then I searched the thread by user name and it tells me Fjodor is not a valid user name. So I can't find the post you refer to.

EDIT: found the post now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
Hi,

I have a Marantz SR-7008 A/V receiver, paired with Monitor Audio Silver 1 Front and Center speakers and Monitor Audio Radius 90 surround speakers.

I have run the Audyssey setup, and then checked the resulting Equalizer spectrum. I noticed that for several of the speakers the audio level compensation was up to +/- 10 dB for certain frequency ranges. So I just wonder if it is normal for the audio level compensation to be that high (+/- 10 dB)?

Also, if you have a Marantz receiver (or some other A/V receiver), what does the Audyssey Equalizer spectrum look like for your setup?
Unfortunately, I have no idea what he is talking about. What is the 'resulting Equalizer spectrum'? What is 'audio level compensation'? Doies he mean the trim? And what graphs are you referring to that need further explanation?


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post #72118 of 72388 Old 08-26-2014, 05:39 AM
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Keith, he is referring to the EQ graphs that are unique to Denon/Marantz AVR's, found in the "Audyssey Results" section of the menu. When you switch to Denon, you will see these for yourself. Example:



The EQ graphs are a crude representation of the frequency domain correction being applied by the Audyssey calibration.

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post #72119 of 72388 Old 08-26-2014, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Keith, he is referring to the EQ graphs that are unique to Denon/Marantz AVR's, found in the "Audyssey Results" section of the menu. When you switch to Denon, you will see these for yourself. Example:


The EQ graphs are a crude representation of the frequency domain correction being applied by the Audyssey calibration.
Ah, thanks Jerry. Then, unfortunately, I can't help him.


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post #72120 of 72388 Old 08-26-2014, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2000 View Post
I have run the Audyssey setup, and then checked the resulting Equalizer spectrum. I noticed that for several of the speakers the audio level compensation was up to +/- 10 dB for certain frequency ranges. So I just wonder if it is normal for the audio level compensation to be that high (+/- 10 dB)?
The filter correction limit is +9 to -20 dB. [But] When the filters are calculated they are "normalized" so that the maximum boost that is needed in each one does not exceed the maximum boost available in the system.

Last edited by rickardl; 08-26-2014 at 07:02 AM.
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