"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2408 - AVS Forum
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post #72211 of 72223 Old Yesterday, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
These last two things have nothing to do with pumping, as they are both completely linear. However equalization (any, not just digital) reduces the total headroom of the system, and so if you do it too much you can over-drive the amps for example causing clipping (or gain compression) artifacts that can be perceived as pumping...

Dynamic EQ, on the other place do (purposely) compress dynamic range, so - it can cause pumping by itself. How perceivable it is to everyone I don't know, I've never felt it pumps (while Dynamic Volume pumping is terrifying) but it definitely 'colors' the sound to some extent. Still for me with DynEQ is better than without it. But I reduce surround levels a bit to avoid unnatural highlighting of it (in movies) and RLO (for other content).
Your description is the closest so far to what I experienced with Dynamic EQ; it sure colors the sound.

I have full respect for that "euphonic" preference type of sound by many. ...No problemo.
And I know very well what I hear and what I like and like not, when it comes to Audyssey Dynamic EQ, and Volume too. ...I prefer without; without any pumping effect.
And I let Audyssey MultEQ XT32 engaged @ roughly 75% of all times; always with movies, and sometimes with it disengaged for music listening (stereo and/or multichannel hi-res). ...It varies; from my various music sources, the number of channels active @ the time, the genre of music I am playing, and my mood of the moment (with different adjustments; like full range speakers @ front, and/or all around).

But Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is reason enough for me to switch from Integra to Marantz; no doubt about it.
I want Dolby Atmos and Dolby Surround too.
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post #72212 of 72223 Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
There were a couple of Onkyo models which included XT32 without SubEQ (the dual subwoofer support). For details, see the PDF in this entry of the Audyssey FAQ: a)14. Which current AVRs have which version of Audyssey room correction?
The Onkyo TX-NR818 AV receiver for sure. ...Any other one? ...The 929?
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post #72213 of 72223 Old Yesterday, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
And I know very well what I hear and what I like and like not, when it comes to Audyssey Dynamic EQ, and Volume too. ...I prefer without; without any pumping effect.
I believe you have said this several times now, and we have all heard you. You have made your point. Is there any reason to keep stating your dislikes for DEQ over and over?
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post #72214 of 72223 Old Yesterday, 05:13 PM
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Please discuss the subject, not the poster.

Thank you for your cooperation.

* Igor was talking about Audyssey Dymamic EQ and Dynamic volume... Read his post, and my reply, and that it is obvious that we are having an informative exchange on the topic, and that we are not discussing each other as to see if one is right or wrong, or the other.

Last edited by NorthSky; Yesterday at 05:19 PM. Reason: *
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post #72215 of 72223 Old Yesterday, 05:16 PM
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I am discussing the subject. We have heard about the subject enough, so can we move on, please?
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post #72216 of 72223 Old Today, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Almost, but not all, units with XT32 have SubEQ HT, which is the bit that sets levels and delays separately for 2 subs.
For those of us with one of the AVR's that is missing SubEQ HT (Onkyo 818), is there a good write up anywhere on how the best way to go about setting up two subs properly?

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post #72217 of 72223 Old Today, 05:29 AM
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Does dynamic compression kicks in automatically in a phantom center setup (stereo speakers producing the center channel sound)?
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post #72218 of 72223 Old Today, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Does dynamic compression kicks in automatically in a phantom center setup (stereo speakers producing the center channel sound)?
Not really related to Audyssey at all.
Audyssey doesn't care or know if you have a real center speaker or not.
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post #72219 of 72223 Old Today, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
For those of us with one of the AVR's that is missing SubEQ HT (Onkyo 818), is there a good write up anywhere on how the best way to go about setting up two subs properly?
See if this FAQ answer helps:

f)2. How do I connect and set up two subwoofers?
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post #72220 of 72223 Old Today, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Thanks, that was helpful. I guess I just wanted to ensure that I did it correctly since I don't have the benefit of SubEQ HT.

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post #72221 of 72223 Old Today, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
Thanks, that was helpful. I guess I just wanted to ensure that I did it correctly since I don't have the benefit of SubEQ HT.
In addition to the great, informative FAQ answer, here's my short version.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -5db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -5db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
14. Enjoy!

Hope this helps!
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AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #72222 of 72223 Old Today, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by o CUBBY o View Post
So, i thought I'd check in to share my findings. I started by toeing in my speakers facing directly at the MLP and ran Audyssey once again. Unfortunately this did not cut the over-boosted highs. In fact I could swear it made it worse. It also boosted my surrounds to a ridiculous level. Back to the drawing board.

Next I put on a record and slowly moved the fronts back and forth until the vocals actually sounded like they were coming from the center speaker. I read somewhere on some thread this is a good way to go about it...not sure if it's correct, but I'll try anything at this point. It ended up being around a 2" toe in. I also think at this point my wife just wants me to be satisfied with the sound so I'll stop running Audyssey. I reran Audyssey following the same configuration, but this time going in a different order (first position of corse being the MLP). Another recommendation for something that worked for someone on some thread. Low and behold, I got some warmth back. Still not perfect, but I believe the speakers are to blame at this point. I'm content now, but of corse I'd always like to improve. Which leads me to another questions that's been rollin' around in my brain...

Before I purchased the Marantz SR7007 (XT) I discovered with my Denon 1910 (MultEQ) that reversing the phase on the sub resulted in better/more bass. I was wondering with that finding would it be better to run Audyssey with the subs phase reversed with the Marantz? Would it make a difference, or does XT's sub EQ make up for it?
I am glad you came back with an update. I was curious whether adjusting your speakers would help. It always surprises me that an adjustment of a couple of inches can make a real difference, but it did in my system too. The technique you used to determine proper toe-in angle is an oldie but goodie for determining a phantom center: set system to stereo; play a mono recording (a vocal track works best for me); when the voice seems to come from the exact center, the toe-in is correct.

I laughed at your statement that your wife just wants you to be happy so you will quit running Audyssey. See, you wore her down. I assume you are using DEQ, much discussed in the last few pages, and that should help with perceived brightness, as well. But if you are turning it off for music, you can also experiment with your tone controls. I don't use DEQ for music, but I prefer Audyssey Flat, and I do then like to roll-off a couple of decibels using the treble control in my Marantz. Just something else to experiment with.

I am not quite sure what you would be hoping to achieve by reversing the phase in your sub. As far as I know the recommended phase setting found in the FAQ is the proper way to go. On the other hand, there are some posters who are far more knowledgeable than I regarding all aspects of sub troubleshooting, so if you want to give a little more detail about what you are hoping to accomplish, you can probably get some excellent advice. If you have already done a sub crawl to optimize placement, you can certainly still increase the sub trim using the Audio section of your AVR. Some people have also achieved a better crossover splice by manipulating the sub's distance setting, although I understand that is pretty tricky without proper measuring equipment. It would probably be a little hit or miss, but you could perhaps try that just by listening to a bass heavy track while you change the distance in small increments. Or better, probably just leave it where Audyssey set it.

Frankly, more and better bass for most of us probably means: a better sub; better sub placement; a second sub; bass traps; XT-32, or equivalent; all of the above. But if you need to work with what you have right now, you can certainly experiment. It is ironic isn't it? As soon as we improve some aspect of our systems, we immediately start looking for the next thing to "improve". No, AV isn't some sort of an addiction. Not at all!

Last edited by mthomas47; Today at 07:44 AM.
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post #72223 of 72223 Old Today, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
In addition to the great, informative FAQ answer, here's my short version.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -5db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -5db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
14. Enjoy!

Hope this helps!
Thanks!

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