"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2408 - AVS Forum
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post #72211 of 73111 Old 08-28-2014, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
These last two things have nothing to do with pumping, as they are both completely linear. However equalization (any, not just digital) reduces the total headroom of the system, and so if you do it too much you can over-drive the amps for example causing clipping (or gain compression) artifacts that can be perceived as pumping...

Dynamic EQ, on the other place do (purposely) compress dynamic range, so - it can cause pumping by itself. How perceivable it is to everyone I don't know, I've never felt it pumps (while Dynamic Volume pumping is terrifying) but it definitely 'colors' the sound to some extent. Still for me with DynEQ is better than without it. But I reduce surround levels a bit to avoid unnatural highlighting of it (in movies) and RLO (for other content).
Your description is the closest so far to what I experienced with Dynamic EQ; it sure colors the sound.

I have full respect for that "euphonic" preference type of sound by many. ...No problemo.
And I know very well what I hear and what I like and like not, when it comes to Audyssey Dynamic EQ, and Volume too. ...I prefer without; without any pumping effect.
And I let Audyssey MultEQ XT32 engaged @ roughly 75% of all times; always with movies, and sometimes with it disengaged for music listening (stereo and/or multichannel hi-res). ...It varies; from my various music sources, the number of channels active @ the time, the genre of music I am playing, and my mood of the moment (with different adjustments; like full range speakers @ front, and/or all around).

But Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is reason enough for me to switch from Integra to Marantz; no doubt about it.
I want Dolby Atmos and Dolby Surround too.
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post #72212 of 73111 Old 08-28-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
There were a couple of Onkyo models which included XT32 without SubEQ (the dual subwoofer support). For details, see the PDF in this entry of the Audyssey FAQ: a)14. Which current AVRs have which version of Audyssey room correction?
The Onkyo TX-NR818 AV receiver for sure. ...Any other one? ...The 929?
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post #72213 of 73111 Old 08-28-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
And I know very well what I hear and what I like and like not, when it comes to Audyssey Dynamic EQ, and Volume too. ...I prefer without; without any pumping effect.
I believe you have said this several times now, and we have all heard you. You have made your point. Is there any reason to keep stating your dislikes for DEQ over and over?
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post #72214 of 73111 Old 08-28-2014, 06:13 PM
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Please discuss the subject, not the poster.

Thank you for your cooperation.

* Igor was talking about Audyssey Dymamic EQ and Dynamic volume... Read his post, and my reply, and that it is obvious that we are having an informative exchange on the topic, and that we are not discussing each other as to see if one is right or wrong, or the other.

Last edited by NorthSky; 08-28-2014 at 06:19 PM. Reason: *
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post #72215 of 73111 Old 08-28-2014, 06:16 PM
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I am discussing the subject. We have heard about the subject enough, so can we move on, please?
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post #72216 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Almost, but not all, units with XT32 have SubEQ HT, which is the bit that sets levels and delays separately for 2 subs.
For those of us with one of the AVR's that is missing SubEQ HT (Onkyo 818), is there a good write up anywhere on how the best way to go about setting up two subs properly?

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post #72217 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 06:29 AM
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Does dynamic compression kicks in automatically in a phantom center setup (stereo speakers producing the center channel sound)?
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post #72218 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Does dynamic compression kicks in automatically in a phantom center setup (stereo speakers producing the center channel sound)?
Not really related to Audyssey at all.
Audyssey doesn't care or know if you have a real center speaker or not.
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post #72219 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
For those of us with one of the AVR's that is missing SubEQ HT (Onkyo 818), is there a good write up anywhere on how the best way to go about setting up two subs properly?
See if this FAQ answer helps:

f)2. How do I connect and set up two subwoofers?
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post #72220 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Thanks, that was helpful. I guess I just wanted to ensure that I did it correctly since I don't have the benefit of SubEQ HT.

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post #72221 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post
Thanks, that was helpful. I guess I just wanted to ensure that I did it correctly since I don't have the benefit of SubEQ HT.
In addition to the great, informative FAQ answer, here's my short version.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -5db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -5db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
14. Enjoy!

Hope this helps!
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post #72222 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by o CUBBY o View Post
So, i thought I'd check in to share my findings. I started by toeing in my speakers facing directly at the MLP and ran Audyssey once again. Unfortunately this did not cut the over-boosted highs. In fact I could swear it made it worse. It also boosted my surrounds to a ridiculous level. Back to the drawing board.

Next I put on a record and slowly moved the fronts back and forth until the vocals actually sounded like they were coming from the center speaker. I read somewhere on some thread this is a good way to go about it...not sure if it's correct, but I'll try anything at this point. It ended up being around a 2" toe in. I also think at this point my wife just wants me to be satisfied with the sound so I'll stop running Audyssey. I reran Audyssey following the same configuration, but this time going in a different order (first position of corse being the MLP). Another recommendation for something that worked for someone on some thread. Low and behold, I got some warmth back. Still not perfect, but I believe the speakers are to blame at this point. I'm content now, but of corse I'd always like to improve. Which leads me to another questions that's been rollin' around in my brain...

Before I purchased the Marantz SR7007 (XT) I discovered with my Denon 1910 (MultEQ) that reversing the phase on the sub resulted in better/more bass. I was wondering with that finding would it be better to run Audyssey with the subs phase reversed with the Marantz? Would it make a difference, or does XT's sub EQ make up for it?
I am glad you came back with an update. I was curious whether adjusting your speakers would help. It always surprises me that an adjustment of a couple of inches can make a real difference, but it did in my system too. The technique you used to determine proper toe-in angle is an oldie but goodie for determining a phantom center: set system to stereo; play a mono recording (a vocal track works best for me); when the voice seems to come from the exact center, the toe-in is correct.

I laughed at your statement that your wife just wants you to be happy so you will quit running Audyssey. See, you wore her down. I assume you are using DEQ, much discussed in the last few pages, and that should help with perceived brightness, as well. But if you are turning it off for music, you can also experiment with your tone controls. I don't use DEQ for music, but I prefer Audyssey Flat, and I do then like to roll-off a couple of decibels using the treble control in my Marantz. Just something else to experiment with.

I am not quite sure what you would be hoping to achieve by reversing the phase in your sub. As far as I know the recommended phase setting found in the FAQ is the proper way to go. On the other hand, there are some posters who are far more knowledgeable than I regarding all aspects of sub troubleshooting, so if you want to give a little more detail about what you are hoping to accomplish, you can probably get some excellent advice. If you have already done a sub crawl to optimize placement, you can certainly still increase the sub trim using the Audio section of your AVR. Some people have also achieved a better crossover splice by manipulating the sub's distance setting, although I understand that is pretty tricky without proper measuring equipment. It would probably be a little hit or miss, but you could perhaps try that just by listening to a bass heavy track while you change the distance in small increments. Or better, probably just leave it where Audyssey set it.

Frankly, more and better bass for most of us probably means: a better sub; better sub placement; a second sub; bass traps; XT-32, or equivalent; all of the above. But if you need to work with what you have right now, you can certainly experiment. It is ironic isn't it? As soon as we improve some aspect of our systems, we immediately start looking for the next thing to "improve". No, AV isn't some sort of an addiction. Not at all!

Last edited by mthomas47; 08-29-2014 at 08:44 AM.
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post #72223 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
In addition to the great, informative FAQ answer, here's my short version.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -5db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -5db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
14. Enjoy!

Hope this helps!
Thanks!

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post #72224 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I am not quite sure what you would be hoping to achieve by reversing the phase in your sub. As far as I know the recommended phase setting found in the FAQ is the proper way to go. On the other hand, there are some posters who are far more knowledgeable than I regarding all aspects of sub troubleshooting, so if you want to give a little more detail about what you are hoping to accomplish, you can probably get some excellent advice. If you have already done a sub crawl to optimize placement, you can certainly still increase the sub trim using the Audio section of your AVR. Some people have also achieved a better crossover splice by manipulating the sub's distance setting, although I understand that is pretty tricky without proper measuring equipment. It would probably be a little hit or miss, but you could perhaps try that just by listening to a bass heavy track while you change the distance in small increments. Or better, probably just leave it where Audyssey set it.

Frankly, more and better bass for most of us probably means: a better sub; better sub placement; a second sub; bass traps; XT-32, or equivalent; all of the above. But if you need to work with what you have right now, you can certainly experiment. It is ironic isn't it? As soon as we improve some aspect of our systems, we immediately start looking for the next thing to "improve". No, AV isn't some sort of an addiction. Not at all!
Thanks for your response! Really my goal right now is to get the Marantz sounding better than my old Denon 1910. So far I believe I've been successful with music, but not movies...I'm close though. The reason I asked about the phase is because with the 1910 when reversing the phase the sub lit up, and became punchy, impactful and very dynamic. With the Marantz the bass sounds very subtle, it's there, it's just very subdued. There is nothing that wows me (which happened often with the 1910). I watched a few scenes of How To Train Your Dragon on Blu-ray last night and it was quite unexciting, and this movie is in the top tier of the bass list. I had read somewhere, possibly the Home Theater Shack Audyssey FAQ that you should have the phase set at 0 just like the FAQ here...unless you know that you would have better results with adjusting the phase. I have a SVS PB2000, so I know this thing has wow factor built in. It's definitely in the best of the possible 5 spots I have in my room. I am running the sub hot, 2db above what Audyssey set it at (-6). Anything more seems to muddy up everything.

I also did a bit of experimenting with the phase and the Marantz. With Audyssey turned off, I loose almost all bass, until I reverse the phase to 180. So, it seems to me that XT is correcting the phase, and that it may be better to run Audyssey with it reversed so it doesn't have to fix that as well as anything else going on in my room. It also sounds pretty bad when DEQ is turned off. Results in a tin can sound with very little to no bass. So, using the tone controls doesn't seem to help much either. Even with the sub turned up to 0 (6db higher than Audyssey) and the slider in the tone controls turned up all the way, I still have lacking bass. Anyway, the wife's away for the weekend so I've got some tweakin' time.

On another note, on the 1910 I discovered after going back and forth a dozen times that setting the LFE to 80 instead of the recommended 120 resulted in a more well rounded punchier bass. So, I'm also wondering if this is also connected to the phase somehow.

P.S. Just to get it out there, speakers set to small and crossovers are all at 80.
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post #72225 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by o CUBBY o View Post
Thanks for your response! Really my goal right now is to get the Marantz sounding better than my old Denon 1910. So far I believe I've been successful with music, but not movies...I'm close though. The reason I asked about the phase is because with the 1910 when reversing the phase the sub lit up, and became punchy, impactful and very dynamic. With the Marantz the bass sounds very subtle, it's there, it's just very subdued. There is nothing that wows me (which happened often with the 1910). I watched a few scenes of How To Train Your Dragon on Blu-ray last night and it was quite unexciting, and this movie is in the top tier of the bass list. I had read somewhere, possibly the Home Theater Shack Audyssey FAQ that you should have the phase set at 0 just like the FAQ here...unless you know that you would have better results with adjusting the phase. I have a SVS PB2000, so I know this thing has wow factor built in. It's definitely in the best of the possible 5 spots I have in my room. I am running the sub hot, 2db above what Audyssey set it at (-6). Anything more seems to muddy up everything.

I also did a bit of experimenting with the phase and the Marantz. With Audyssey turned off, I loose almost all bass, until I reverse the phase to 180. So, it seems to me that XT is correcting the phase, and that it may be better to run Audyssey with it reversed so it doesn't have to fix that as well as anything else going on in my room. It also sounds pretty bad when DEQ is turned off. Results in a tin can sound with very little to no bass. So, using the tone controls doesn't seem to help much either. Even with the sub turned up to 0 (6db higher than Audyssey) and the slider in the tone controls turned up all the way, I still have lacking bass. Anyway, the wife's away for the weekend so I've got some tweakin' time.

On another note, on the 1910 I discovered after going back and forth a dozen times that setting the LFE to 80 instead of the recommended 120 resulted in a more well rounded punchier bass. So, I'm also wondering if this is also connected to the phase somehow.

P.S. Just to get it out there, speakers set to small and crossovers are all at 80.
If it is of any consolation or reassurance to you, I had exactly the same issue when running my dual SVS PC12 NSD subs. I had to reverse the phase on one sub to get the bass to be impactful. It was back in the days before I learned to use REW to measure the post-Audyssey results, but there was no doubt at all that the bass improved substantially when the phase was reversed. So if it sounds way better to you like that, then don't sweat it - reverse the phase and enjoy.

There's no sense at all in being disappointed with your bass just because Audyssey decided to set things one way or another. And you are right about HTTYD - if that movie doesn't rock your bass world, then something is amiss.

And incidentally and FWIW, I too enjoy my bass more when I set the LPF of LFE to 80Hz.

(I have M&K S150s across the front and dual Seaton Submersives, with the 6,000 watt Master/Slave combo. All external amplification for all speakers).
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post #72226 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 01:33 PM
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Many people have found that Audyssey's subwoofer calibration doesn't provide the "punch" that they're used to. Increasing the trim level for the subwoofer channel slightly often can help. Please take a look at the Audyssey FAQ entry F. Subwoofers & Bass

edited to add: *tch* I'm surprised Keith didn't mention this

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post #72227 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Many people have found that Audyssey's subwoofer calibration doesn't provide the "punch" that they're used to. Increasing the trim level for the subwoofer channel slightly often can help. Please take a look at the Audyssey FAQ entry F. Subwoofers & Bass

edited to add: *tch* I'm surprised Keith didn't mention this
And I think there exists also another group of many people who never had a subwoofer before and purchased it brand new together with their new speakers and an Audyssey enabled AVR/AVP. They will have no such reference of "punch", so convincing them will be easier to play their systems "as is" after Audyssey setup and only touch the sub trim after their few day or a week listening "break-in" period is over.

Just a thought.
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post #72228 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
If it is of any consolation or reassurance to you, I had exactly the same issue when running my dual SVS PC12 NSD subs. I had to reverse the phase on one sub to get the bass to be impactful. It was back in the days before I learned to use REW to measure the post-Audyssey results, but there was no doubt at all that the bass improved substantially when the phase was reversed. So if it sounds way better to you like that, then don't sweat it - reverse the phase and enjoy.

There's no sense at all in being disappointed with your bass just because Audyssey decided to set things one way or another. And you are right about HTTYD - if that movie doesn't rock your bass world, then something is amiss.

And incidentally and FWIW, I too enjoy my bass more when I set the LPF of LFE to 80Hz.

(I have M&K S150s across the front and dual Seaton Submersives, with the 6,000 watt Master/Slave combo. All external amplification for all speakers).
That is reassuring. Quick question for ya. Did you reverse the phase and then run Audyssey again? As I have it now, reversing the phase to 180 only results in a more impactful sound with Audyssey off. I'd like to have Audyssey on for the other goods it provides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Many people have found that Audyssey's subwoofer calibration doesn't provide the "punch" that they're used to. Increasing the trim level for the subwoofer channel slightly often can help. Please take a look at the Audyssey FAQ entry F. Subwoofers & Bass

edited to add: *tch* I'm surprised Keith didn't mention this
Thank you for your recommendation. However, increasing the trim doesn't provide more punch, it just seems to muddy things up and covers up the intricacies of every other sound. I purposefully set the subs gain a little high so Audyssey would set the sub in the negatives. I hit the mark I wanted at -6 so I had substantial wiggle room. For music I set the Sub level in the AVR to 0, which sounds decent, but the bass doesn't sound as tight and punchy as it was with my old receiver, Denon 1910. The Denon only had MultiEQ and not XT, so there was no sub calibration. Which I believe is why the phase reverse worked well. For movies, I raised it up 2db to -4. Any higher and it's mud city. XT seems to have smoothed the response of the sub as there is less peaks at different frequencies which I had issues with Denon. However the punch is gone.
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post #72229 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by o CUBBY o View Post
The Denon only had MultiEQ and not XT, so there was no sub calibration.
Please note, MultEQ and MultEQ XT both equalize the sub channel and they do it at the same resolution: 128x.

Here: http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/flavors
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post #72230 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 02:30 PM
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Cubby,

If you haven't already, you might want to consider using a spectrum analyzer like REW or OmniMic to try to track down the details of what's making the sound muddy. It's good to know that simply changing the phase made it sound much better, but there might be other options which would improve the sound more.
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post #72231 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 02:55 PM
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Cubby,

+1 to using REW to measure your response.

If you have only one sub and reversing the phase produces higher SPL at the MLP and smoothes out the bass, then it is obvious to me that Audyssey got your sub distance setting wrong (as Audyssey often does). By adjusting the phase, you are basically adjusting the delay (distance) of the sub, but with phase you will only effect a small frequency. By using the distance setting in your AVR, you will effect all sub frequencies. For this reason you should leave the sub phase at "0" and adjust distance instead.

The poor man's way to do this (without some way to measure your response) is to play your AVRs internal calibration tone and adjust the sub distance until you get the highest SPL at the MLP (you have an SPL meter, right?).

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post #72232 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Please note, MultEQ and MultEQ XT both equalize the sub channel and they do it at the same resolution: 128x.

Here: http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/flavors
Whoa, well that throws all my theories out the window. Not sure why I thought MutEQ didn't touch the sub other than distance and volume. This makes me question why the sub is so drastically EQed differently between the two receivers.

Denon 1910 - Audyssey ON and phase reversed to 180 = punchy, heavier and louder bass

Marantz SR7007 - Audyssey ON and phase reversed to 180 = Less bass

The two receivers have complete opposite results.

I do have REW and a Umic, I just haven't found the time to delve into it.
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post #72233 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Many people have found that Audyssey's subwoofer calibration doesn't provide the "punch" that they're used to. Increasing the trim level for the subwoofer channel slightly often can help. Please take a look at the Audyssey FAQ entry F. Subwoofers & Bass

edited to add: *tch* I'm surprised Keith didn't mention this
It didn't sound from his description that that was his problem, but yes, it is worth a try.

We know Audyssey has 'issues' with the sub and the splice and getting the delays wrong and so on, and my experience was also that there was a phase issue which was solved by reversing the phase on one sub. Interestingly it was also an SVS sub, if that matters.
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post #72234 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by o CUBBY o View Post
That is reassuring. Quick question for ya. Did you reverse the phase and then run Audyssey again? As I have it now, reversing the phase to 180 only results in a more impactful sound with Audyssey off. I'd like to have Audyssey on for the other goods it provides.
Oh no - if you run Audyssey again it will just reverse it back, so to speak. I ran Audyssey, then reversed the phase, then left it alone. Much later, when I had measuring equipment, I measured the in-room sub response and, with the phase on one sub reversed, it was just fine.

If the reversal of phase only makes the bass sound better with Audyssey off, then Selden's advice above should be considered. I didn't realise that, or I missed it in your earlier post. You may just not be used to 'flat' bass. When you calibrate with Audyssey you really need to use DEQ as well, because Audyssey calibrates to flat at Reference Level, so below Reference the bass will sound anemic without DEQ.

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Originally Posted by o CUBBY o View Post
Thank you for your recommendation. However, increasing the trim doesn't provide more punch, it just seems to muddy things up and covers up the intricacies of every other sound. I purposefully set the subs gain a little high so Audyssey would set the sub in the negatives. I hit the mark I wanted at -6 so I had substantial wiggle room.
Good plan!

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Originally Posted by o CUBBY o View Post
For music I set the Sub level in the AVR to 0, which sounds decent, but the bass doesn't sound as tight and punchy as it was with my old receiver, Denon 1910. The Denon only had MultiEQ and not XT, so there was no sub calibration. Which I believe is why the phase reverse worked well. For movies, I raised it up 2db to -4. Any higher and it's mud city. XT seems to have smoothed the response of the sub as there is less peaks at different frequencies which I had issues with Denon. However the punch is gone.
I do know what you mean. I have experienced this too. If you are confident that you are following all the advice in the FAQ and 101, then all I can suggest is running Audyssey again, with the phase reversed and see how that plays out.
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post #72235 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Cubby,

+1 to using REW to measure your response.

If you have only one sub and reversing the phase produces higher SPL at the MLP and smoothes out the bass, then it is obvious to me that Audyssey got your sub distance setting wrong (as Audyssey often does). By adjusting the phase, you are basically adjusting the delay (distance) of the sub, but with phase you will only effect a small frequency. By using the distance setting in your AVR, you will effect all sub frequencies. For this reason you should leave the sub phase at "0" and adjust distance instead.

The poor man's way to do this (without some way to measure your response) is to play your AVRs internal calibration tone and adjust the sub distance until you get the highest SPL at the MLP (you have an SPL meter, right?).
Good advice. I have never yet seen Audyssey get the sub delay right.
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post #72236 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 04:25 PM
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Thank you all for the advise! Sounds like I've got more homework to do. Seems as though it's never ending...or I'm just being waaayyyy to picky, which is what my wife believes. She's outa town this weekend, so I might just be able to take on REW. I've gotten as far as doing a few sweeps, so I've got some of it down.

I have been running Audyssey directly in line with the FAQ and 101, except for things that just aren't possible, such as my couch needing to be against the back wall. I'll probably give reversing the phase and rerunning Audyssey a try out of curiosity. If that doesn't give any beneficial results, then I'll try tweaking the distance using REW's SPL meter.

I also want to give running Audyssey a try with the mic 6" higher as suggested earlier with my issues with ear bleeding highs. I have been successful in getting them down to tolerable, but just a bit more would be perfect.
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post #72237 of 73111 Old 08-29-2014, 04:54 PM
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If you're going to use REW, it's better to run FR sweeps to set your sub distance.

This is over-simplified but - run some sweeps with just your sub and center channel playing and adjust the sub distance up and down by a few feet (a foot at a time). When you get the setting that gives you the smoothest transition through the crossover, you're golden.

You can zero in on the perfect distance by using smaller increments (my AVR does .1') but I've found that it's not usually necessary.
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post #72238 of 73111 Old 08-30-2014, 07:30 AM
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I just purchased an Denon AVRS900W. I initially believed the AVR had MultiEQ XT based on the comparison from Denon's website (see attached image). I guess I'm wrong in that it only includes MultiEQ (non-XT), as it certainly only uses the 6 measuring points during setup.

I understand that XT has better resolution filters, I get that it's better. What I'd like to know is how much better? How can I value it? Can anyone testify to how much better XT is over the vanilla? I tried searching for some actual comments on the percieved improvements but didn't have any luck. I'm sure it's buried in this thread somewhere, but it's hard to search for.
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post #72239 of 73111 Old 08-30-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post
I just purchased an Denon AVRS900W. I initially believed the AVR had MultiEQ XT based on the comparison from Denon's website (see attached image). I guess I'm wrong in that it only includes MultiEQ (non-XT), as it certainly only uses the 6 measuring points during setup.

I understand that XT has better resolution filters, I get that it's better. What I'd like to know is how much better? How can I value it? Can anyone testify to how much better XT is over the vanilla? I tried searching for some actual comments on the percieved improvements but didn't have any luck. I'm sure it's buried in this thread somewhere, but it's hard to search for.
Steve, actually there is no quantitative measurement system that could answer your question on "how much better" it is. From hereon, it all boils down to subjective evaluation, and a lot lot lot more...
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post #72240 of 73111 Old 08-30-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubasteve2365 View Post
I understand that XT has better resolution filters, I get that it's better. What I'd like to know is how much better? How can I value it? Can anyone testify to how much better XT is over the vanilla? I tried searching for some actual comments on the percieved improvements but didn't have any luck. I'm sure it's buried in this thread somewhere, but it's hard to search for.

Very minimal. You probably wouldn't even notice. However, XT32 is a MASSIVE improvement over both. That is the version that you want.




http://www.audyssey.com/technologies/multeq/flavors
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