"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2414 - AVS Forum
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post #72391 of 72402 Old 09-23-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
If you are having to ask that, then you won't have read the Audyssey 101, linked in my sig. I'd advise reading it and following each step to the letter if you are new to Audyssey. This will ensure that you get a great calibration right from the get-go.
I have read all the instructions, it mention the length should be around 12 inch from the seat back, but I just wonder if I have 12 inch space between the seat back, the real distance will be move forward 3 - 4 inches, will it affect the overall balance of the sound, like the surround back speaker louder than the front speaker, or the subwoofer distance will be shorter than the real subwoofer distance?
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post #72392 of 72402 Old 09-23-2014, 12:47 PM
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Okay, it was a bad mic that came with my 4520. Used the 7009 mic with the 4520 and was able to benefit from DEQ downstairs. No more over powering bass (don't have surround downstairs). And all this time I could have had a better experience with my 4520 in the media room

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I picked up my new Marantz 7009 last Thursday and got to hook it up over the weekend. Kbarnes and Mogorf you guys will find this very interesting, DEQ now sounds great!!! Every thing sounds even, the surrounds, 4 ceiling speakers , and subs sound great unlike with the 4520. The center channel is much more clear on all content and I didn't have to bump it up dB or two.

The other very strange thing is the 7009 said my subs were way to high. When level matching they are above in the red. The 4520 never said they were too high as I had them match at about 71 dB (through Audyessy) because of all the bass DEQ gave (I ran Audyessy a number of times on the 4520 all with the same results). But even before I had the 4520 I had level matched each sub to 75 dB with an SLP meter.

Not sure why the 7009 would have produced very different results but I am now a fan of DEQ.

To further test things, I moved the 4520 downstairs to see how Audyssey and DEQ would sound on my 3.1 setup in my living room. Living room is large, open concept with very high ceiling. Thought maybe the 4520 just didn't like my mediaroom but then thought why would the 7009 produce better results than the 4520? Anyway, after running Audyssey and applying DEQ the bass is still too powerfull just like the mediaroom.

Any ideas as to why the two different resutls between the 7009 and 4520? Could my mic for calibration been bad on the 4520? Thought it was interesting and wanted to pass along.



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post #72393 of 72402 Old 09-23-2014, 01:58 PM
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Awesome. Glad we have finally solved the riddle!
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post #72394 of 72402 Old 09-23-2014, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigham16 View Post
Okay, it was a bad mic that came with my 4520. Used the 7009 mic with the 4520 and was able to benefit from DEQ downstairs. No more over powering bass (don't have surround downstairs). And all this time I could have had a better experience with my 4520 in the media room


I think this happens quite a bit, with all of the complaints that I have heard of "Audyssey ruined my sound". I'm not saying that is true for all experiences, but most likely for quite a few of them. It's definitely handy to have another compatible mic to try.
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post #72395 of 72402 Old 09-23-2014, 06:47 PM
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Experimenting with different "variables" is always beneficial.
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post #72396 of 72402 Old 09-25-2014, 07:23 PM
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I've never really understood why the following quote from the FAQs is true:

In a typical living room, the acoustical conditions require a flat curve up to a certain frequency, and then a roll-off. This roll-off allows the proper balancing of the direct and reverberant sound at high frequencies.

Shouldn't direct sound be a lot brighter at your ears?

Are movies mastered with too much treble? If that is done, why do they bother, since the x-curve in theaters rolls off the treble to a degree?

I agree that most of my movies sound better with Audyssey Reference's roll-off. A few do not, and require Audyssey Flat.

Why wouldn't the roll-off be needed for ordinary music CDs, SACDs, etc. as well? Or is it? If so, wouldn't the imaginary perfectly flat speaker, in a room that magically contributes nothing to the sound, be too shrill unless a treble roll off (like Audyssey Reference) was applied?

For years (no, decades) before room treatments such as absorbers and diffusers were popular, purist "Golden Ears" audiophiles listened to pretty flat speakers in ordinary rooms with ordinary furniture, usually with a rug on the floor. I know of none (at least in my circle) who rolled off the treble. A few goosed up the bass, to compensate for bass roll-off in Lp records (so they said). Today, magazines like Stereophile rarely mention applying treble roll-off, but Stereophile's founder, J. Gordon Holt (?) did once (in the '90s ... '80s?) write an article called "Down with Flat."
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post #72397 of 72402 Old 09-25-2014, 07:26 PM
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It all depends.

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post #72398 of 72402 Old 09-26-2014, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I've never really understood why the following quote from the FAQs is true:

In a typical living room, the acoustical conditions require a flat curve up to a certain frequency, and then a roll-off. This roll-off allows the proper balancing of the direct and reverberant sound at high frequencies.

Shouldn't direct sound be a lot brighter at your ears?

Are movies mastered with too much treble? If that is done, why do they bother, since the x-curve in theaters rolls off the treble to a degree?

I agree that most of my movies sound better with Audyssey Reference's roll-off. A few do not, and require Audyssey Flat.

Why wouldn't the roll-off be needed for ordinary music CDs, SACDs, etc. as well? Or is it? If so, wouldn't the imaginary perfectly flat speaker, in a room that magically contributes nothing to the sound, be too shrill unless a treble roll off (like Audyssey Reference) was applied?

For years (no, decades) before room treatments such as absorbers and diffusers were popular, purist "Golden Ears" audiophiles listened to pretty flat speakers in ordinary rooms with ordinary furniture, usually with a rug on the floor. I know of none (at least in my circle) who rolled off the treble. A few goosed up the bass, to compensate for bass roll-off in Lp records (so they said). Today, magazines like Stereophile rarely mention applying treble roll-off, but Stereophile's founder, J. Gordon Holt (?) did once (in the '90s ... '80s?) write an article called "Down with Flat."
movies are mixed on systems calibrated to (probably a successor to the decades old) X-Curve, which has about twice the treble rolloff of the Audyssey curve. With that much less treble energy in the mixers' playback system, it's possible a movie would indeed likely be brighter than music mixed on an imaginary average music studio system and mastered by Bob Ludwig or whoever, because AFAIK they don't have an intentional rolloff in the treble in their playback systems.

FWIW, Chris K was insistent that their listening test data indicated that the Audyssey curve functioned best for music too. Perhaps related to the added measured treble energy in the reflections from speaker off-axis output, which our ear/brain systems might or might not "hear" as part of the original signal (if it arrives late enough, it's ambiance . . . .

I'm an agnostic, although at present my system uses the Audyssey curve for everything. I'm thinking, though about using my Denon's "bypass left and right" Audyssey setting just for giggles, kinda in light of the lighter touch of XT32 above the Schroeder frequency.
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post #72399 of 72402 Old 09-26-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by JHAz View Post
movies are mixed on systems calibrated to (probably a successor to the decades old) X-Curve, which has about twice the treble rolloff of the Audyssey curve. With that much less treble energy in the mixers' playback system, it's possible a movie would indeed likely be brighter than music mixed on an imaginary average music studio system and mastered by Bob Ludwig or whoever, because AFAIK they don't have an intentional rolloff in the treble in their playback systems.

FWIW, Chris K was insistent that their listening test data indicated that the Audyssey curve functioned best for music too. Perhaps related to the added measured treble energy in the reflections from speaker off-axis output, which our ear/brain systems might or might not "hear" as part of the original signal (if it arrives late enough, it's ambiance . . . .

I'm an agnostic, although at present my system uses the Audyssey curve for everything. I'm thinking, though about using my Denon's "bypass left and right" Audyssey setting just for giggles, kinda in light of the lighter touch of XT32 above the Schroeder frequency.
The "It all depends" statement was probably not made entirely in jest. I have always preferred "Audyssey Flat" in my room for my music, and music is my primary concern with respect to audio quality. I sometimes switch to "Audyssey" when I watch movies, but often leave my setting on "Flat" for that as well.

I accept the statement that the majority of people prefer more treble roll-off than I seem to, but it is still just a majority preference and not some kind of absolute. There are so many variables with respect to room, equipment, hearing, preference, etc. I think that trying various options to determine what we like best is probably our only sane recourse. Trying to fit our own specific preferences into a general FAQ statement or Audyssey recommendation just can't work in every case. And I say that with all due deference with respect to Audyssey recommendations and to the FAQ.


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post #72400 of 72402 Old 09-26-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post

I accept the statement that the majority of people prefer more treble roll-off than I seem to, but it is still just a majority preference and not some kind of absolute. There are so many variables with respect to room, equipment, hearing, preference, etc. I think that trying various options to determine what we like best is probably our only sane recourse. Trying to fit our own specific preferences into a general FAQ statement or Audyssey recommendation just can't work in every case. And I say that with all due deference with respect to Audyssey recommendations and to the FAQ.
Yes - the FAQ attempts to give 'best advice' that will suit most people in most circumstances. There will always be exceptions and, of course, personal preference is also a factor. I tried to mention exceptions in the FAQ where it would illuminate rather than confuse, but at the end of the day, the thread is here too, for people who have situations that don't quite fit a standard answer.

WRT to the treble rolloff, there could be numerous reasons why some prefer flat and some prefer reference, as you suggest - mostly to do with the nature of the room and the speakers.


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post #72401 of 72402 Old 09-26-2014, 01:47 PM
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Thanks, guys.

I hear that some Blu-ray manufacturers roll-off the treble on the BD itself, so if you used Audyssey Reference, with its roll-off, you would probably get too much roll off. Rumor has it that Disney is one of these, but I don't know if that applies to their other lines like Miramax, Hollywood pictures, Touchstone, etc.

Does anyone know where we could get a list of BD companies that pre-attenuate the treble, and those who don't? Short of previewing every movie long enough to sample the music and dialog, I can think of no way other than a list .
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post #72402 of 72402 Old 09-26-2014, 11:49 PM
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Good question; I too wouldn't mind to see such a list, if it does exist.

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