"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2419 - AVS Forum
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post #72541 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:23 PM
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Yes, all good to go; four subs with two "Y" splitters. ...It will calibrate (EQ) your four subs as two pairs.
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post #72542 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Yes, all good to go; four subs with two "Y" splitters. ...It will calibrate (EQ) your four subs as two pairs.
...provided each two Y-splitted subs are set up to be level matched and equidistant from MLP b4 running MultEQ. For best results. Just a thought.
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post #72543 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by chrisreeves View Post
Forgive me if this question has already been asked - I tried to search the thread but didn't see my key phrase come up, despite a number of hits in the search.

Question is this: I'm looking at getting a new AVR soon with dual subwoofer outputs, Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT. But I want to run a four subwoofer configuration. Can I hook up two subs to one output using a y-splitter, two to another output with another y-splitter, and then have Audyssey do its subwoofer calibration?

Or will it screw it up because it thinks it is measuring one subwoofer at a time, when in reality it is measuring two at a time?

For what it is worth all four subs will be identical and will be placed around the room to smooth out bass response.
I have this exact configuration--the Denon 4520 and four identical Hsu ULS-15 subs. I have it configured exactly as you have suggested, a pair of subs on each channel.

I would like to add several more tips: Make sure each sub pair is gain-matched. To do this, play the AVR pink noise level-setting tone for the sub channel, turn off one sub, place an SPL meter a couple of inches in front of the dust cap of the other sub, and adjust the sub's gain to something close to 90dB. Repeat the process for the second sub, making sure its gain achieves the same 90dB reading. I use 90dB for the near-field measurement because this results in ~75dB at the MLP. You will be asked to set the sub levels at the beginning of the Audyssey calibration, so if the 90dB gain matching registers higher or lower than 75dB +/- 2dB in the calibration, go back to the gain-matching step and adjust both sub gains slightly higher/lower (preserving the gain-matching, of course).

And second, since Audyssey can only set one delay (distance) setting for each of the two sub channels, try and place each sub in a sub pair equidistant from the MLP. For example, one of my sub pairs is placed on the front wall at the 1/4 and 3/4 spots, both the same distance from the MLP.

And finally, if you have the measurement tools, you should follow the "sub distance tweak" procedure to ensure the subs are in phase with the main speakers. The procedure ids described here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...Oct%202013.pdf
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post #72544 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:38 PM
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Thanks so much guys!

"Don't forget that a significant contribution made by the use of high-end cabling is emotional. Knowing that you have the best available causes the listening and viewing to be that much more enjoyable. Observable improvements make it even better."

-From a post on the audio video improvements forum
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post #72545 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
...provided each two Y-splitted subs are set up to be level matched and equidistant from MLP b4 running MultEQ. For best results. Just a thought.
Good advice, Feri. Were you looking over my shoulder while I was typing?
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post #72546 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
...provided each two Y-splitted subs are set up to be level matched and equidistant from MLP b4 running MultEQ. For best results. Just a thought.
But of course, that was already assumed in my sentence.
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post #72547 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
But of course, that was already assumed in my sentence.
Yes, of course, Bob, we forgot to read between the lines.
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post #72548 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:43 PM
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Do you have friendly intentions? ...Only those I don't ignore.
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post #72549 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Good advice, Feri. Were you looking over my shoulder while I was typing?
YES, Sir...
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post #72550 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
But of course, that was already assumed in my sentence.
Of course, sentence is sentence, isn't it Bob?

Last edited by mogorf; 10-22-2014 at 03:58 PM.
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post #72551 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 04:56 PM
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The importance is that the guy asking the question is happy. ...And he is; nothing else truly matters.
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post #72552 of 72568 Old 10-22-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
The importance is that the guy asking the question is happy. ...And he is; nothing else truly matters.
Teamwork,...I strongly believe in teamwork...
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post #72553 of 72568 Old 10-23-2014, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Autorotate View Post
Thank you very much for providing this link. I have just made it through majority of it. I learned some interesting things, but this is only the tip of the iceberg for me.

Just to recap:

1) I am already plugged into my LFE port

2) I should try turning up my gain and then run Audyssey again? Rythmik instructions
recommended the gain at 0db for setup. What should I set the gain to?

3) I read that you can bypass the Audyssey initial setting of 75db. Mark Seaton recommended this in your post. I could not find a way to bypass it. It was making me either turn down my volume on the sub or cancel that I was going to use a sub for testing. I could not even keep my sub at mid volume for testing purposes.

4) After running MultEq, I should then run Dynamic Eq?

5) Turn off Dynamic Volume and make sure Dynamic Eq is turned on?


Earlier in the day before I posted this, I tried listening the the Audyssey subwoofer "too loud" and turning down the volume until I reached 75db. I also set the extension filter to high. Other than those two adjustments, I left all the recommended setup instructions from Rythmik. I will include pictures of my results. I then went into the settings manually and set the large speakers to "small" and the bass level from -5db to +3db. I did notice a considerable difference in the bass output when I put some music on. However, this time I also turned the volume (on the sub) up over half way and had a ton of background noise.

Results below from the following settings:

LFE Delay/Phase: 0
PEQ:Off Crossover: Max
Gain:0db Volume:Under middle (Required to get lower than 75db)
Bandwidth: Middle LowPass Filter: AVR/12
Frequency: Middle (40hz) Rumble Filter: Off/1 for one port
Extension Filter: 14Hz high damping
The idea is to get the sub trim somewhere like -3.5dB. This then gives you the option of running the sub a little 'hot' if you prefer a bit more bass after the Audyssey calibration (most do) without going into positive sub trim territory (which can clip the sub amp input on some subs). When you get to the screen where Audyssey asks you to set the level to 75dB, you can just skip past that screen if you wish. Just aim for a final sub trim, after cal, of about -3.5dB or even lower.

After the cal, Dynamic EQ defaults to on. Leave it there. You only need Dynamic Volume on for late night listening if you wish to avoid distrubing others. Both Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume are explained fully in the FAQ.
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post #72554 of 72568 Old 10-23-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
The idea is to get the sub trim somewhere like -3.5dB. This then gives you the option of running the sub a little 'hot' if you prefer a bit more bass after the Audyssey calibration (most do) without going into positive sub trim territory (which can clip the sub amp input on some subs). When you get to the screen where Audyssey asks you to set the level to 75dB, you can just skip past that screen if you wish. Just aim for a final sub trim, after cal, of about -3.5dB or even lower.

After the cal, Dynamic EQ defaults to on. Leave it there. You only need Dynamic Volume on for late night listening if you wish to avoid distrubing others. Both Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume are explained fully in the FAQ.
Thank you for the update. I am sitting down about to calibrate as I type. I was waiting on the arrival of my ground loop isolator. Audyssey originally had me at -5.0db. I then went back in and manually set it to +3, but you are saying that is too much. I have to read more about the gain and how that will help my bass output.

Heading in to give it another shot now!! Come on bass!!
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post #72555 of 72568 Old 10-23-2014, 12:26 PM
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This is a great forum and I see the usual suspects throughout. Thank you in advance for your input. It has been and continues to be greatly appreciated.

I have calibrated my system several times over the past few weeks, updating for new equipment and treatments. Most recently using XT, Audysee suggests a crossover for ALL speakers of 40htz (except center at 70htz). This includes in-ceiling speakers (Paradigm 60R-30) as well as side surrounds (B&W 704s). The results are quite good but I feel I am missing some impact from my subs. I do not listen consistently at reference level, but I do like to hear the foundation shake at the appropriate time. I have compensated by 1) moving in-ceiling speakers to an 80htz crossover and 2) raised the sub level from the AVR about 4db. My question(s): is this the right approach to adjust Audysee? Should I just cross everything over at 80htz? Should I go with the Audysee calibration and then just increase the subs to my liking? Please note my equipment listing below. Thanks again for your thoughts.

Lee 9(7).2.4

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post #72556 of 72568 Old 10-23-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by quinn4528 View Post
This is a great forum and I see the usual suspects throughout. Thank you in advance for your input. It has been and continues to be greatly appreciated.

I have calibrated my system several times over the past few weeks, updating for new equipment and treatments. Most recently using XT, Audysee suggests a crossover for ALL speakers of 40htz (except center at 70htz). This includes in-ceiling speakers (Paradigm 60R-30) as well as side surrounds (B&W 704s). The results are quite good but I feel I am missing some impact from my subs. I do not listen consistently at reference level, but I do like to hear the foundation shake at the appropriate time. I have compensated by 1) moving in-ceiling speakers to an 80htz crossover and 2) raised the sub level from the AVR about 4db. My question(s): is this the right approach to adjust Audysee? Should I just cross everything over at 80htz? Should I go with the Audysee calibration and then just increase the subs to my liking? Please note my equipment listing below. Thanks again for your thoughts.
Most people seem to increase their bass levels by a few dB after running Audyssey. See this FAQ answer for background:

f)5. Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

WRT to the crossovers, you are certainly right to consider raising them and letting the sub do the job it was designed for. I would start by raising them to 80hz but also try 90Hz and 100Hz if your sub is happy to play at those frequencies (it should be).

Here is some background from the FAQ on the issue of crossover settings:

c)2. Why do I often see advice to raise the Crossovers to 80Hz?

c)4. Is it OK to change the Crossovers from Audyssey's recommendation?
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post #72557 of 72568 Old 10-23-2014, 12:39 PM
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Raise them all to 80hz.
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post #72558 of 72568 Old 10-23-2014, 02:10 PM
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Larry Graham and Graham Central Station confirms crossing of at 80 htz (or just abouts) works best for music and that bass line I wanted hear. Sounds great. Thanks

Lee 9(7).2.4

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post #72559 of 72568 Old 10-23-2014, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Teamwork,...I strongly believe in teamwork...
Part of a team - Teamwork - Robert De Niro (It's only a movie, means nothing)

_____

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post #72560 of 72568 Old Yesterday, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Part of a team - Teamwork - Robert De Niro (It's only a movie, means nothing)

_____

www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHH9EYZHoVU
???
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post #72561 of 72568 Old Yesterday, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinn4528 View Post
Larry Graham and Graham Central Station confirms crossing of at 80 htz (or just abouts) works best for music and that bass line I wanted hear. Sounds great. Thanks
Hi quinn,

Actually crossover has nothing to do with music or film, yet it has something to do with the way our ears work. As audio frequencies get lower and lower our ears start to fail to detect directionality. Experiments have shown that below 80 Hz this phenomenon happens. We can hear the intensity of an explosion, but we can't detect it's direction. This is what is made use of when contents below 80 Hz are re-directed to subwoofer(s).

For more in-sights please refer to the blog Small vs. Large where you will get an explanation on how low frequencies vs. distance of our two ears on our head relate. (Link in my sig)

Last edited by mogorf; Yesterday at 02:23 PM.
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post #72562 of 72568 Old Yesterday, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
???
You said "teamwork", and I totally agree with you. ...So I remembered Robert De Niro using that line (word) in some of his acting movies. ...Then I googled Teamwork Robert De Niro, and that was the first entry.

That's all, it's only a movie, nothing to make of it but only the positive aspect, like a baseball team.
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post #72563 of 72568 Old Yesterday, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
You said "teamwork", and I totally agree with you. ...So I remembered Robert De Niro using that line (word) in some of his acting movies. ...Then I googled Teamwork Robert De Niro, and that was the first entry.

That's all, it's only a movie, nothing to make of it but only the positive aspect, like a baseball team.
One team member at the round table gets hit with the baseball bat and falls down on the table with a bleeding head. Is that what you call teamwork? What idea did you try to convey to the Audyssey thread with that clip Bob?
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post #72564 of 72568 Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
One team member at the round table gets hit with the baseball bat and falls down on the table with a bleeding head. Is that what you call teamwork? What idea did you try to convey to the Audyssey thread with that clip Bob?
Nothing else than true "teamwork" spirit. ...Don't look @ that last segment of that movie clip, look @ the bright side of it; the teamwork like a baseball team. ...A football team, a soccer team, a basketball team..., a family team...

_____

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post #72565 of 72568 Old Yesterday, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Nothing else than true "teamwork" spirit. ...Don't look @ that last segment of that movie clip, look @ the bright side of it; the teamwork like a baseball team. ...A football team, a soccer team, a basketball team..., a family team...

_____

www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dSvsp3dxvc
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0s18i95JKA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2djcavCEajA
No more clips please, let's get back to Audyssey talk, if I may suggest.

Thank you for your atttention.
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post #72566 of 72568 Old Today, 10:21 AM
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I'm sorry but I couldn't find this is the FAQ - I just want to be certain. When Audyssey is done calculating I can't change any parameters at that point so I have to Store the settings and then go into Manual Setup to adjust crossover values. Am I still utilizing all of the Audyssey calculations?

I'm using MultEQ XT on my Denon 1713.

Thanks

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post #72567 of 72568 Old Today, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TurboTropic View Post
I'm sorry but I couldn't find this is the FAQ - I just want to be certain. When Audyssey is done calculating I can't change any parameters at that point so I have to Store the settings and then go into Manual Setup to adjust crossover values. Am I still utilizing all of the Audyssey calculations?

I'm using MultEQ XT on my Denon 1713.

Thanks
You can change the Audyssey parameters anytime you like; Channel levels, speaker distances.
And you can also change Denon's Speaker crossovers. ...Going higher is fine, but going lower is less fine.

* Audyssey does NOT set your speaker's x-overs; your Denon receiver does.

<<>> If you give us an example of what you would like to change manually, we certainly can recommend few good suggestions.

And! Always use all 8 position mic measurements.


Last edited by NorthSky; Today at 01:57 PM.
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post #72568 of 72568 Old Today, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTropic View Post
I'm sorry but I couldn't find this is the FAQ - I just want to be certain. When Audyssey is done calculating I can't change any parameters at that point so I have to Store the settings and then go into Manual Setup to adjust crossover values. Am I still utilizing all of the Audyssey calculations?

I'm using MultEQ XT on my Denon 1713.

Thanks
Yes, you will want to store them first. If you hit cancel it will negate the calibration. Do as you said and go into Manual Setup and make changes as you see fit.
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