"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2420 - AVS Forum
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post #72571 of 72592 Unread 10-26-2014, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
eBay?
Bob: this is what eBay brings up for "Audyssey Pro Kit"

JimP: probably best to ask over at the "The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread".
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post #72572 of 72592 Unread 10-26-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Bob: this is what eBay brings up for "Audyssey Pro Kit"

JimP: probably best to ask over at the "The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread".
Some people are just trying to inflate their post counts, Feri, without any real regard for the quality of their advice. Best to move on...
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post #72573 of 72592 Unread 10-26-2014, 05:35 PM
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Some people are just trying to inflate their post counts, Feri, without any real regard for the quality of their advice. Best to move on...
Just tryin' to be patient with some while helpful to some. Otherwise fully agree with Ya Jerry.

P.s.:New-Odyssey Nail System Complete Pro Do Yourself Salon Artificial Gel Nail Kit at a bargain price is available on eBay, ...um,...while supplies last, eh?



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post #72574 of 72592 Unread 10-26-2014, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post
Yes, you will want to store them first. If you hit cancel it will negate the calibration. Do as you said and go into Manual Setup and make changes as you see fit.

Thanks very much. Thought so but I appreciate the confirmation.


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post #72575 of 72592 Unread 10-26-2014, 11:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Bob: this is what eBay brings up for "Audyssey Pro Kit"

JimP: probably best to ask over at the "The Audyssey Pro Installer Kit Thread".
Lol ...The spelling is wrong too (eBay own spelling).

* Keith has his for sale. Check him out.

And if you carefully search by using the right wording, you're going to find all kind of good stuff, even on eBay. Professional microphones with stands for Room Calibration and EQ, and for only few dollars; some are excellent brands too, from Germany/

The Audyssey Pro kit itself, is $550 @ most places, then you need to pay for a key licence (extra).

Last edited by DrDon; 10-29-2014 at 03:44 AM. Reason: personal remarks removed
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post #72576 of 72592 Unread 10-28-2014, 02:20 PM
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I have a question regarding the crossover used in Audyssey XT32.
My Receiver is a Onkyo TX-NR818 and I use MiniDSP 2x4 for manual tweaking.

What type of crossover is used electronical in Audyssey between mains and subwoofer?
I am not asking for the sum or measured spl from speakers depending on their roll-off.

If we take crossover @80Hz as an example:
Some say that a High-pass Linkwitz-Riley 2nd order filter is applied @80Hz together with two stacked Low-pass Butterworth 2th order @80Hz.
Others say that High-pass Butterworth 2th order is applied @80Hz and a Low-pass Butterworth 2th order @80Hz.

I have searched the web and forums quite a bit, but I have not found a clear answer.

Can someone clearify what crossover type and values that are used?
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post #72577 of 72592 Unread 10-28-2014, 02:48 PM
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It is not Audyssey choosing crossover slopes, its Denon and Onkyo and Marantz. Search your receiver and you are more likely to find the answer. Fwiw aiui, the manufacturers use the unbalanced thx crossover scheme ~ higher order on sub and lower order on mains. But it's been a long time since I worried about this. The room effects net response more than crossover slopes by a factor of maybe ten.
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post #72578 of 72592 Unread 10-28-2014, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strike Ace View Post
I have a question regarding the crossover used in Audyssey XT32.
My Receiver is a Onkyo TX-NR818 and I use MiniDSP 2x4 for manual tweaking.

What type of crossover is used electronical in Audyssey between mains and subwoofer?
I am not asking for the sum or measured spl from speakers depending on their roll-off.

If we take crossover @80Hz as an example:
Some say that a High-pass Linkwitz-Riley 2nd order filter is applied @80Hz together with two stacked Low-pass Butterworth 2th order @80Hz.
Others say that High-pass Butterworth 2th order is applied @80Hz and a Low-pass Butterworth 2th order @80Hz.

I have searched the web and forums quite a bit, but I have not found a clear answer.

Can someone clearify what crossover type and values that are used?
Honestly this is a hard row to hoe. First off, Audyssey (any flavor) does not set crossover in any AVR/AVP known to man today (including your Onk 818). MultEQ reports the - 3dB roll-off frequency of each speaker (better said speaker pair except the center and the sub/s) and the AVR/AVP sets the c/o accordingly. Whatever slope each filter has is burried deep down the chain, not even mentioned on the spec sheets. Nonetheless, it is not a user tweakable setting, so I would not really worry about it too much, yet I understand your curiosity from the technical point of view.
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post #72579 of 72592 Unread 10-29-2014, 03:36 AM
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Thanks for quick answer, I will search some more.
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I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, since it is a bit on the theoretical side, but here it goes - It's my understanding that after running Audyssey, the master volume on the AVR will have been calibrated so that the system will be playing at reference level for a movie when the master volume is set to 0dB.

My question is this: If any part of the system being calibrated (speakers or sub) is incapable of reaching reference level in the room it being used, what would the result be? Would you still be able to set the master volume to 0dB or above after calibrating? Or would all the individual speaker trim levels be maxed out? Taking it a step further, is there any way to interpret the Audyssey results to get an idea of how much headroom your system has to be sure it is not at risk of distorting at reference level volumes or above?

I'm not having any issues at the moment, just someone who like to understand what is going on behind the scenes for some things
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post #72583 of 72592 Unread Yesterday, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesebach View Post
I'm not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, since it is a bit on the theoretical side, but here it goes - It's my understanding that after running Audyssey, the master volume on the AVR will have been calibrated so that the system will be playing at reference level for a movie when the master volume is set to 0dB.

My question is this: If any part of the system being calibrated (speakers or sub) is incapable of reaching reference level in the room it being used, what would the result be? Would you still be able to set the master volume to 0dB or above after calibrating? Or would all the individual speaker trim levels be maxed out? Taking it a step further, is there any way to interpret the Audyssey results to get an idea of how much headroom your system has to be sure it is not at risk of distorting at reference level volumes or above?

I'm not having any issues at the moment, just someone who like to understand what is going on behind the scenes for some things
The answer is pretty simple -- Audyssey has no clue what the "maximum performance" or "headroom" of your system is. You can infer nothing about your system headroom from the Audyssey results. The test pings are at such a low level (30dB below full scale, or ~75dB) that they are nowhere near the point where any decent speaker or sub will be hitting their limits.

Whether your system can actually hit "reference level" is a function of the speakers, room size, amplification, etc. Audyssey really doesn't have much to do with it (although applying EQ in general could impact total headroom, especially with the subs, if there are significant boosts needed to EQ to flat). It is worth noting however that few people actually WANT to get to full reference in a typical home environment -- in these smaller spaces, especially if not acoustically treated, literal reference level is too loud. And "perceptual" reference level may be 5-10dB below literal reference level.

If you aim for a goal of -10dB it makes the whole system much easier to put together, since, due to the logarithmic nature of power demands, it takes 10x the power to raise the SPL by 10dB. So getting to -10dB is only requires 1/10th the performance of full 0dB reference. That's a goal that most people can achieve even on a relatively modest budget.

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post #72584 of 72592 Unread Yesterday, 08:32 PM
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^^^^^I wish someone had explained that to me years ago. You know, before I fell in the rabbit hole .
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post #72585 of 72592 Unread Today, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The answer is pretty simple -- Audyssey has no clue what the "maximum performance" or "headroom" of your system is. You can infer nothing about your system headroom from the Audyssey results. The test pings are at such a low level (30dB below full scale, or ~75dB) that they are nowhere near the point where any decent speaker or sub will be hitting their limits.

Whether your system can actually hit "reference level" is a function of the speakers, room size, amplification, etc. Audyssey really doesn't have much to do with it (although applying EQ in general could impact total headroom, especially with the subs, if there are significant boosts needed to EQ to flat). It is worth noting however that few people actually WANT to get to full reference in a typical home environment -- in these smaller spaces, especially if not acoustically treated, literal reference level is too loud. And "perceptual" reference level may be 5-10dB below literal reference level.

If you aim for a goal of -10dB it makes the whole system much easier to put together, since, due to the logarithmic nature of power demands, it takes 10x the power to raise the SPL by 10dB. So getting to -10dB is only requires 1/10th the performance of full 0dB reference. That's a goal that most people can achieve even on a relatively modest budget.
Thanks for the quick response and explanation, batpig. It does make sense to me now why Audyssey wouldn't "know" what the actual headroom/capabilities of my AVR are since the test tones are well below reference level peaks. I'm still a bit confused on what the AVR does after an audyssey calibration with regards to the master volume settings though, so I'm wondering if I'm still thinking about this in the wrong way.

Hopefully I can explain my thought process and someone can help point out where I might be wrong in some of my assumptions. As I understand it, most AVRs will have the option to display the master volume setting either on a absolute scale (e.g. 0-98) or relative scale (e.g. -80dB to +18db). Before one runs an audyssey calibration, the relative scale option is at some pre-determined default where 0dB more than likely does not actually produce reference level on the user's system (it could be above or below true reference level).

Then, a user will run the audyssey calibration and through playing the test tones at a known power, audyssey will measure a volume from each speaker at the listening position and thereby get a measurement of the overall system's efficiency at converting the electrical power from the amp into sound at the LP. Using this data, the AVR will then re-calibrate its master volume "relative scale" so that "0dB" will now produce the true reference level on the user's system.

Does this then mean that the calibrated relative master volume scale range would then be changed as well? Would someone with a system not capable of reaching reference level see that their master volume setting only goes from -80dB to -5dB or something like that? If that is not the case and master volume still ranged from -80dB to +18dB, what would happen if the user of this theoretical system tried to set his volume to 0dB or above even though his setup was not capable of reaching reference level? Wouldn't this effectively be like "turning it up to 11" (going above 98 on the absolute scale for his AVR)?

I'm guessing that some part of my understanding of what is happening must be incorrect, so I'm hoping that someone can help steer me in the right direction.
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Where you're getting confused is the "recalibration of the master volume". Audyssey (nor the AVR) does not re-calibrate the MV...Audyssey (along with your AVR) set the trim levels on your speakers so that they all play at the same level (75db with -30db test tones).

After that, it's all up to your speakers as to whether of not you can play at "0" MV ("reference level") without distortion.

Audyssey will sometimes reduce the maximum volume you can turn the MV up to though. It does this based on how many filters it applies and the max boost in those filters....but 0MV is still 0MV.
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
^^^^^I wish someone had explained that to me years ago. You know, before I fell in the rabbit hole .
LOL. It's nice to have the headroom to be able to hit Reference now and then, if you really feel the urge though And, as batpig says, if you ever treat your room to a lot of acoustic panels, they do absorb quite a lot of the energy, so you will need to wind up the MV a fair bit. I 'lost' at least 3dB when I added all my treatments.
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
LOL. It's nice to have the headroom to be able to hit Reference now and then, if you really feel the urge though And, as batpig says, if you ever treat your room to a lot of acoustic panels, they do absorb quite a lot of the energy, so you will need to wind up the MV a fair bit. I 'lost' at least 3dB when I added all my treatments.

My audio for most of my movies including Atmos TF4 plays at -5 but then I have a fully treated room.
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post #72589 of 72592 Unread Today, 02:38 PM
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My audio for most of my movies including Atmos TF4 plays at -5 but then I have a fully treated room.
Same here, also fully treated. I listen to most movies at about -5dB. I call it 'home reference'.
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Where you're getting confused is the "recalibration of the master volume". Audyssey (nor the AVR) does not re-calibrate the MV...Audyssey (along with your AVR) set the trim levels on your speakers so that they all play at the same level (75db with -30db test tones).

After that, it's all up to your speakers as to whether of not you can play at "0" MV ("reference level") without distortion.

Audyssey will sometimes reduce the maximum volume you can turn the MV up to though. It does this based on how many filters it applies and the max boost in those filters....but 0MV is still 0MV.
Thanks for the reply - I think I'm starting to get it Is it correct to say then, that for a system that struggles to reach reference levels, Audyssey would set the speaker trim levels to positive values so that the AVR is applying a boost to all speakers at all volumes? And that the AVR might then cap or limit the maximum master volume setting by an amount equivalent to the maximum boost that it is applying to any one speaker? For example, if the volume on the AVR goes from -80dB to +18dB and the Audyssey speaker trim settings are +3dB, +2dB, +5dB, +1dB, +3dB, the AVR might limit/cap the master volume to +13dB (18dB - 5dB max trim). This is probably an over-generalization since the trim values for each speaker are averaged across all frequencies, but I hope that is the basic idea.

As a follow-up, is there any general trend among AVRs as to where in their master volume range that distortion starts to become an issue? Or would the whole range be relatively safe and useable? Thanks again for all the help!
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post #72591 of 72592 Unread Today, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheesebach View Post
Thanks for the reply - I think I'm starting to get it Is it correct to say then, that for a system that struggles to reach reference levels, Audyssey would set the speaker trim levels to positive values so that the AVR is applying a boost to all speakers at all volumes?
Not necessarily....Audyssey (actually, your AVR) sets the speaker trim levels based on the sensitivity of your speakers. It knows not if your system will "struggle" to play reference level.

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And that the AVR might then cap or limit the maximum master volume setting by an amount equivalent to the maximum boost that it is applying to any one speaker? For example, if the volume on the AVR goes from -80dB to +18dB and the Audyssey speaker trim settings are +3dB, +2dB, +5dB, +1dB, +3dB, the AVR might limit/cap the master volume to +13dB (18dB - 5dB max trim). This is probably an over-generalization since the trim values for each speaker are averaged across all frequencies, but I hope that is the basic idea.
That's basically the idea as I understand it. It has something to do with how much boost Audyssey EQ applies to different frequencies as well though.

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As a follow-up, is there any general trend among AVRs as to where in their master volume range that distortion starts to become an issue?
Depends on the capability of your speakers in your room. Some speakers will start distorting at quite low MV settings, others can play distortion free at levels that most people couldn't even stand to be in the room while playing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesebach View Post
And that the AVR might then cap or limit the maximum master volume setting by an amount equivalent to the maximum boost that it is applying to any one speaker? For example, if the volume on the AVR goes from -80dB to +18dB and the Audyssey speaker trim settings are +3dB, +2dB, +5dB, +1dB, +3dB, the AVR might limit/cap the master volume to +13dB (18dB - 5dB max trim).
Yes, that's basically correct -- the volume IC has a certain amount of digital headroom, and various boosts (speaker trim, Audyssey EQ, source level compensation, etc) in the processing chain can eat up that headroom and thus lower the max volume setting. For the most part it's of little practical concern because almost nobody is going to go above 0dB on the MV scale, but it's the way it works.

That said, none of it really has to do with the CAPABILITY of your system. That is an independent factor.

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