"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2427 - AVS Forum
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post #72781 of 72810 Old 11-18-2014, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
And many people use that feature?
No, Bob, not everyone uses that feature. First of all, it is only available on Denon and Marantz AVR's. And for those who own those brands of AVR's, only the ones who are aware of the feature, and who don't want to loose their settings and calibration data when conducting a microprocessor reset, will use the feature.

In case anyone is interested, the procedure is described here
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post #72782 of 72810 Old 11-18-2014, 11:02 PM
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Ok Jerry, thx.

And by the way, I was totally aware that it is only from Denon/Marantz AVRs (and SSPs).
...As I have read batpig's post very clearly (quoting him in my above post).
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post #72783 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 01:50 PM
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So my couch back is a little higher than my mic at ear level. Is it recommended to move the mic forward away from the couch back and in front of where my head would be for the first mic position or raise it up above ear level but even where my head sits during movies.

It seems that my center channel gets quite different results every time I run audyssey with only minuscule changes in mic placement. Anywhere from thin sounding, to too much bass and sometimes even distorted or harsh sounding with voices (Though I am sure it being Klipsch doesnt help that).

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post #72784 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 01:58 PM
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Basically, what you want to avoid is the couch back blocking the path of sound from the speaker to the mic. In other words you want "line of sight" between each speaker and mic for the measurements, or Audyssey will "hear" the attenuation of the blocked sound and try to correct for it. You also want to avoid reflective surfaces (which could be the couch back) so try to stay at least 8-10 inches or so away.

So, do whatever you need to do to get the mic as close as possible to the "sweet spot" for the first measurement while respecting those two constraints. For some it may mean moving the mic forward a few inches, or up a couple of inches. Some people who have theater chairs that recline will recline the seatback for measurements to avoid these two problems. I have a leather sofa and I remove the big back cushion, although for me it's more about avoiding spurious reflections off the leather cushion than creating line of sight to the surround speakers (the couch back isn't that high).

If the center channel is coming out "bright" then Audyssey is probably boosting the high freqs for some reason. One reason could be that you are straying off axis from the tweeters aim -- high freqencies drop off as you move off axis so if, for example, your center channel is designed with wide horizontal dispersion but narrow vertical dispersion, and it's not aimed at ear level, when you put the mic at ear level it is "hearing" the drop in high frequencies and boosting to compensate. So one thing to try is being careful with the aim of the center and then trying a tighter cluster of points that are close to being on axis for the center channel aim.
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post #72785 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 02:19 PM
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Thanks. My couch is made from that microfiber or microsuede material (not sure the difference) and I am not sure if this would be considered reflective or not. If I stuff my face in it (while the wife enters the room, shakes her head and turns around) it seems a little breathable but not too much so.

My center is at about chest level but cannot be angled up at this time. I may try to lower the mic a little below ear level but would have to pull it forward of where my head sits so that my sides aren't blocked. I don't have rears so no worries there.

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post #72786 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niroe64 View Post
My center is at about chest level but cannot be angled up at this time.
Yeah, that's probalby the root issue with the inconsistency of results. What you could do is make the first mic position (where levels and delays are set) as close as possible to ear level an then "skew" the sample of the other measurements intentionally a few inches lower to get more on axis with the center. The EQ filters are calculated based on the entire sample of measurements.

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post #72787 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 05:02 PM
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I have the same problem almost exactly. And my couch is against the wall which is cement. My first bunch of Audyseey readings all came back with the center always sounding low. What I did was remove my center cushion so I could get it at ear level and made sure it was precisely about half way on the cushion or as the guy said 8-10 inches. My center is inside my tv stand, I moved it right to the edge. I used the 8 point set up, 6 on the primary seat and the final two on either side of PLP.

PLP center
3 inches forward
3 inches up
3 up & 3 forward
3 inches left
3 inches right
plus points for 2 other LPs (except 6-point MultEQ)




I also toe'd in my speakers a lil bit so each one faces just inside the left and right arm rests of a 3 seater. This gave me a nice bright center with a ok emersiveness depending on the content. It's better for movies. Tv is pretty center heavy but it is better than before with my speakers straight and a quite center. I am not sure how much me removing my center cushion helped with the improved brightness but it was significantly brighter. On the verge of harsh but ok. I usually have the urge to re-calibrate after 3 days but I'm getting content with this one. Give it a try. I noticed a significant difference in center levels. I think I'm going to end up doing another one after i'm finished reading the 101 audysee tips.

Last edited by Federo5; 11-19-2014 at 05:08 PM.
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post #72788 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 05:11 PM
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Is there a link for precisely how to do this for the marantz 7008. I am so computer illiterate. I do not have a wireless adapter so I will have to unplug my computer Ethernet cable and stick it in the receiver. I'd have to be walked through it
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post #72789 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Is there a link for precisely how to do this for the marantz 7008. I am so computer illiterate. I do not have a wireless adapter so I will have to unplug my computer Ethernet cable and stick it in the receiver. I'd have to be walked through it
Hi Federo5,

In case you'd be willing to share a couple of photos of your room and speaker setup that would surely help the BOARD here to give you the best advice. Sometime photos tell more than a 1,000 words.

Last edited by mogorf; 11-19-2014 at 05:36 PM.
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post #72790 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 05:48 PM
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Sure,

Back to from wall is Just over 11 ft couple inches.

As expected because of my back/surround speakers they are usually loud and overwhelming if I don;t sit exactly in the middle seat, I have to turn them down 2db. They are actually more subtle facing each other than angled in front of PLP. Not ideal but they were my old fronts and I upgraded to the rf2's. Temporary living arrangement so I decided to just keep the old fronts and use as surrounds.
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Last edited by Federo5; 11-19-2014 at 05:54 PM.
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post #72791 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Sure,

Back to from wall is Just over 11 ft couple inches.

As expected because of my back/surround speakers they are usually loud and overwhelming if I don;t sit exactly in the middle seat, I have to turn them down 2db. They are actually more subtle facing each other than angled in front of PLP. Not ideal but they were my old fronts and I upgraded to the rf2's. Temporary living arrangement so I decided to just keep the old fronts and use as surrounds.
Pic #1 : surrounds would be best placed on stands in order to position them somewhat above seated ear hight...

Pic #2 and 3: toeing in of front L&Rs looks OK to me, Center should definitely be tilted upward to face ear level, but unfortunately no way out as it seems at the moment. Could you probably pull it out of the shelf a bit (an inch or so) and use some "clever tools" to make it face up? That would surely improve dialog intelligibility while lessening early reflections causing "smearing" off nearby surfaces.

Just thinkin' out loud...
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post #72792 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 06:40 PM
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Audyssey seems to be detrimental for high end systems.
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post #72793 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
Audyssey seems to be detrimental for high end systems.
Do you think that is true if there are, say, 3 or more listening positions, or only when there is just 1 position that the system can be fine tuned for?

Last edited by garygarrison; 11-19-2014 at 07:25 PM.
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post #72794 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Yeah, that's probalby the root issue with the inconsistency of results. What you could do is make the first mic position (where levels and delays are set) as close as possible to ear level an then "skew" the sample of the other measurements intentionally a few inches lower to get more on axis with the center. The EQ filters are calculated based on the entire sample of measurements.
So I ran Audyssey again with the mic positions lower with the mic being in between ear and mouth level which is a good 4-5 inches lower than my normal measuring height and pulled 10 inches forward from the back rest of the couch.

I used smaller measurements of about a foot to 18 inches and laid all eight measurements in a sort of plane or bird pattern. With 1 being center, 2 and 3 eighteen inches on either side, 4 and 5 twelve inches on either side of those, 6 twelve inches in front of position one and 7 and 8 back about 18 inches, in between the first position and positions 2 and 3 and raised about 5 inches higher than the rest to clear the back rest.

The center seems a bit better while the rest of the speakers sound pretty similar to when I do the standard 8 position measurement pattern found in the guide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
I have the same problem almost exactly. And my couch is against the wall which is cement. My first bunch of Audyseey readings all came back with the center always sounding low. What I did was remove my center cushion so I could get it at ear level and made sure it was precisely about half way on the cushion or as the guy said 8-10 inches. My center is inside my tv stand, I moved it right to the edge. I used the 8 point set up, 6 on the primary seat and the final two on either side of PLP.

PLP center
3 inches forward
3 inches up
3 up & 3 forward
3 inches left
3 inches right
plus points for 2 other LPs (except 6-point MultEQ)




I also toe'd in my speakers a lil bit so each one faces just inside the left and right arm rests of a 3 seater. This gave me a nice bright center with a ok emersiveness depending on the content. It's better for movies. Tv is pretty center heavy but it is better than before with my speakers straight and a quite center. I am not sure how much me removing my center cushion helped with the improved brightness but it was significantly brighter. On the verge of harsh but ok. I usually have the urge to re-calibrate after 3 days but I'm getting content with this one. Give it a try. I noticed a significant difference in center levels. I think I'm going to end up doing another one after i'm finished reading the 101 audysee tips.
I do the same thing, running Audyssey like a mad man, always changing it up a bit to see if I can make it sound better. I am sure I am fighting a battle I can't win due to my room acoustics and center placement but we payed for xt32 so we could try right?

My center never seems too low a level or overly bright or harsh, it just sounds like how I would expect a Klipsch to sound, a little edgy with a bit of sibilance in the dialogue, but worse. I am not sure how much the room can affect that but it does it with the towers hooked up as the center as well. Maybe I just haven't adjusted to the sound of Klipsch or maybe my receiver isn't a good match.

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Center Klipsch RC-62II
Sides Onkyo SKR-980's
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post #72795 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 07:42 PM
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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

Neroe, FWIW I have Klipsch RF7s and a same-generation Klipsch center. After cal I drop the center trim 2db or so and I get a nice, even soundstage.

Too many variables - just tossing in a possibly relevant data point.

Last edited by Dave_A_Anderson; 11-19-2014 at 07:42 PM. Reason: spullin
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post #72796 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 07:57 PM
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Also equipped with phase correction function of the bass...corrected in the range of 0 ~ 16ms
Is this available in previous generation's XT32?
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post #72797 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 08:21 PM
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I have the rf82's and same center as you with a marantz 7008. I find the best settings in my receiver which I do not switch for tv or movies is audyseey on, dynamic volume on LIGHT. This gives the loudest volume setting. I put dynamic compression on low. This slightly dulls the surround without muting. It always sets my surrounds to LARGE which only effects the bass output which is booming so I set to SMALL and switch crossover from 40HZ to 80. I have zero clue if this is the best thing to do but from what I read thats standard. I have no sub and don;t require one with my set up, these speakers produce more than enough to get me evicted from the building , ha ha. If I turn off audeyseey the tv goes quite and I can't tell ANY difference between audeyseey normal and flat. Maybe I'm just going def. I do know that although my center is brighter the sides don't project as much detail. Whether it was the last calibration frequency of the sides or my toeing I have no clue.

Thanks for the speaker advice. I will definitely look in to purchasing a couple stands for the surrounds. My girlfriends magazines don't seem to be elevating them enough.
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post #72798 of 72810 Old 11-19-2014, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coli View Post
Audyssey seems to be detrimental for high end systems.
What kind of high end systems?
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post #72799 of 72810 Old 11-20-2014, 12:06 AM
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Sorry if this is redundant. I just want to make clear. Do I need to raise my mic above the back seat of the couch even if it's 8-10 inches away. Doing this will make my mic just over two feet away from my cement wall so is it better for the sound to reflect 10 inches from an upholstered couch or two feet from a cement wall raised from ear level. Thanks
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post #72800 of 72810 Old 11-20-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
...Back to from wall is Just over 11 ft couple inches. ...my back/surround speakers they are usually loud and overwhelming ...Temporary living arrangement.
Audyssey has a lot of capability, but it has its limits; you're asking for things an EQ system can't do. I understand it's a temporary situation and a too-small space, but there are a couple simple things that will ahve a huge effect.

1) move the listening position away from the walls. You want 2-3 feet minimum from your head to any wall.
Your couch is placed so your head is inches away from a concrete wall. Concrete is great for sound isolation, but horrible for listening spaces, because it reflects sound very well. Your ears are receiving a reflected wave that's out of phase at every frequency that's a quarter-wavelength multiple of the distance.
- If you're 6" from the wall, that puts a sharp dip in the frequency response starting at 565Hz, and every integer multiple frequency above, 1130, 1695, etc.).
- If you're 12" from the wall, the dips start at half that, 282.5Hz, and integer multiples higher.
- if you're 24" from the wall, the dips start at half again, 141Hz, upper bass, not low midrange

The real problem is the sharpness of the dip combined with a strong relationship between mic placement and dip frequency. By placing the mic at a bunch of locations with strong dips throughout the midrange frequencies, you're asking Audyssey to solve an intractible problem. With a listening position that's 36", 3 feet, from the rear wall, the dips start at 94 Hz and blend into the room's bass modes.That's something Audyssey can handle, to some extent.

2) Move your surrounds farther from the listening position, and away from the back wall.
The photo shows the surrounds at the end of the couch, against the rear wall. All the issues described above apply, plus a new one - inverse square law.

You may be aware that sound level from small speakers falls with distance by the inverse square of that distance: 1/r^2. By placing the surrounds next to the listening positions, you have a case where the side seats are half as far from the surround speakers as the main seat. The surrounds will be 4x louder at 1.2 the distance.

In addition, the surrounds will have a strong reflection from the back wall, even though they are pointed perpendicular to it. The path length difference will be shorter, so the wavelength affects discussed above occur higher in higher in frequency. The bigger problem is proximity.

Suggestions:
- Move the bookcase behind the couch, with enough added space that you can still access lower shelves. If you can arrange things randomly on it, you will get both some absorption and some diffusion. Not a lot, but some, and in the right place.
- Move the surrounds forward, off the back wall, and up the side wall, as far from the couch as you can. Ideal placement is just above hear level, but that assumes you have enough room between them and the listening space to avoid proximity affects. It's the less of two evils, so to speak.

I can't see the couch photo while replying, nor could I attach it, so I'm hoping you get the idea, and can do more adjsutments than I suggest. I would expect a noticable increase in midrange quality and dialog intelligibility in the absence of Audyssey, and some increamental benefit once it's been run with the new positions.

Have fun,
Frank
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post #72801 of 72810 Old 11-20-2014, 06:08 PM
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thanks for the suggestions. Do you know if there is a networking link specific for the marantz 7008. The one someone posted is for the denon. I want to run audyseey again with the changes I made from your suggestions but keep my old one and compare the two.
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post #72802 of 72810 Old 11-20-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
thanks for the suggestions. Do you know if there is a networking link specific for the marantz 7008. The one someone posted is for the denon. I want to run audyseey again with the changes I made from your suggestions but keep my old one and compare the two.
What do you mean by "networking link?" It sounds like you are talking about the ability to save / load the config from a networked computer? If so the instructions are the same for Marantz, they are functionally identical to Denons.
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post #72803 of 72810 Old 11-20-2014, 06:40 PM
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I'm on the phone with Marantz as we speak, I found how to access the site with my ip address. Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with the "save" feature not showing, guy is working on it but it's pretty cool to be able to access everything from my computer.
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post #72804 of 72810 Old 11-20-2014, 08:02 PM
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So I called Marantz because I wanted to save my current calibration settings, to retry and compare the two but on the website the save setting wasn't coming up. The guy updated a receiver he had there with the latest firmware and his didn't have that feature either so apparently it's a problem with the new update. They didn;t seem to have any other info than that so I'll just have to wait a month or three for the new update and hope it fixes.

On a side note I got the 25 yearly membership here but cannot find anywhere to cancel it after a year or two. Anywhere to find this, I checked every single option in the user panel. Surely I can't be a member for life now, LOL
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post #72805 of 72810 Old 11-20-2014, 09:20 PM
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It's not a firmware issue. It's a long standing flakiness that plagues many D/M models depending on the browser and other variables.

No need to wait a few months, just read this post: The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

If the save/load feature isn't working just use the direct URL as described in the linked post.

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post #72806 of 72810 Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM
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When one adds audio delay, what does it actually do?
Is it adding extra distance to the centre channel only, or all?
Does it also delay the subs as well?
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post #72807 of 72810 Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
When one adds audio delay, what does it actually do?
Is it adding extra distance to the centre channel only, or all?
Does it also delay the subs as well?
You are delaying ALL audio in relation to the video signal.
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post #72808 of 72810 Old Today, 05:48 PM
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So I redid my calibration doing two things, one angling my fronts in between straight and fully toed. I have them facing the side seats so there is now the richness in the PLP, I also pulled out my center from the shelf two inches and ran the test again with the cushions in place. I unpluged my fridge, and unluged my internet and cablebox. It now sounds amazing. the center is less bright but great punch at -7.5 db. The fronts have punch also, I can hear far more detail yet the fronts now are quieter DB wise at -6 and -6.5. Even though they are 2.5-3 db softer than the last test they are much louder and sound very crisp. This sounds amazing. I paid full attention to the distance away from the cushiion, exactly 2 ft from the cement wall and exactly 11 inches from the cushion on the couch. Thats it. The difference is drastic. I can even notice a difference between audyseey settings now.
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post #72809 of 72810 Old Today, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
It's not a firmware issue. It's a long standing flakiness that plagues many D/M models depending on the browser and other variables.

No need to wait a few months, just read this post: The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

If the save/load feature isn't working just use the direct URL as described in the linked post.

alright will do, thanks. Funny 3 of the support people didn't mention this or have a clue about it. WHat's the point of support if this is a known issue in forums. 2000$ for this equipment you'd figure there would be a little transparency. Oh well, thanks man
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post #72810 of 72810 Old Today, 06:18 PM
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You are delaying ALL audio in relation to the video signal.
is this feature for those watching the new Godzilla movies who want to experience the originals?
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