"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2428 - AVS Forum
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post #72811 of 72835 Unread 11-22-2014, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post
You are delaying ALL audio in relation to the video signal.
is this feature for those watching the new Godzilla movies who want to experience the originals?
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post #72812 of 72835 Unread 11-22-2014, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
So I redid my calibration doing two things, one angling my fronts in between straight and fully toed. I have them facing the side seats so there is now the richness in the PLP, I also pulled out my center from the shelf two inches and ran the test again with the cushions in place. I unpluged my fridge, and unluged my internet and cablebox. It now sounds amazing. the center is less bright but great punch at -7.5 db. The fronts have punch also, I can hear far more detail yet the fronts now are quieter DB wise at -6 and -6.5. Even though they are 2.5-3 db softer than the last test they are much louder and sound very crisp. This sounds amazing. I paid full attention to the distance away from the cushiion, exactly 2 ft from the cement wall and exactly 11 inches from the cushion on the couch. Thats it. The difference is drastic. I can even notice a difference between audyseey settings now.
Glad the tips worked out for you! Enjoy!
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post #72813 of 72835 Unread 11-23-2014, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
So I redid my calibration doing two things, one angling my fronts in between straight and fully toed.
I have consistently gotten the best results by determining the best toe-in angle for the fronts before calibration. There is no generally agreed formula for adjusting the toe-in angle; it depends on your speakers and your room configuration.

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post #72814 of 72835 Unread 11-23-2014, 09:24 AM
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+1. Since toe-in affects the high frequency response at the MLP, it is essential that toe-in be done before the calibration. And if toe-in is altered at a later date, a new calibration should be run.
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post #72815 of 72835 Unread 11-23-2014, 04:39 PM
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Arrow Delay

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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
is this feature for those watching the new Godzilla movies who want to experience the originals?
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post #72816 of 72835 Unread 11-23-2014, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
+1. Since toe-in affects the high frequency response at the MLP, it is essential that toe-in be done before the calibration. And if toe-in is altered at a later date, a new calibration should be run.
As regards to toe-in IMHO it is always best to follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Should the Manual of the speakers describe it, then it should be followed. Shoud there be no mention of angling the speakers then its up to experimenting.

In my case since Dali explicitly recommends front L&R speakers to be put parallel to the front wall due their implementation of so-called "wide dispertion pattern" throughout the whole frequency range I have had no better results than when their suggestion was followed.

Look up your speaker's Manual for more details.

Last edited by mogorf; 11-23-2014 at 04:55 PM.
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post #72817 of 72835 Unread Yesterday, 08:39 PM
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One more quick question for you guys. Audysee set my surrounds and fronts to LARGE with 40 HZ crossover for the center. I switched the surrounds to SMALL and set both crossovers to 80HZ for the center and the surrounds. I DO NOT have a sub atm. So only my fronts are set to large . Is this optimal with no subs? To recap My fronts are klipsch RF82-2's, my center is klipsch RC62-2 and my surrounds are 600's klipsch towers. What should my crossover be for the center and surround with fronts large and rest center with no sub. Thanks
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post #72818 of 72835 Unread Yesterday, 08:39 PM
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Redid calibration. Changed some drivers, simplified some cross overs. Swear I've asked this before but so far search has yielded nothing. Still searching....

Denon 3808ci.

When all done, all saved, ready to rock n roll, the Denon gives me choices to look at the graphs Audyssey has recorded.

What am I looking at?

Are these what Audyssey measured as my actual speaker performance and are the curves on which Audyssey will have do its work?

Are these a summation of the work Audyssey is doing and the graphic is showing me what frequencies Audyssey is adding, boosting to get to the desired results?

So if the graph shows +8db at 14,000 hz is that telling me that in my room and the sound my speakers are producing are hot at 14,000 and Audyssey is going to have to reduce the sound at 14,000 by a -8db?

Or is my system weak at 14,000 hz and Audyssey is boosting it by 8db?

Are these graphs before Audyssey does its work or after?

E.B. White said, "I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day."
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post #72819 of 72835 Unread Yesterday, 10:59 PM
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Those graphs are just for decoration, a crude representation. Best is to simply ignore them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Those graphs are just for decoration, a crude representation. Best is to simply ignore them.
But are they displaying a "before or after" graph?
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Downsampled Audio

I have a Denon X4000 receiver with Audyssey XT32. As many of you may be aware, the vast majority of home theater receivers don't have enough processing power to run Audyssey. As a result audio gets downsampled by the receiver (96KHz to 48KHz and 48KHz audio to 24KHz). Are there any Audyssey enabled home theater receivers on the market that don't downsample? Both CD's and high res DVD-Audio discs sound horrible with Audyssey enabled. This may be a bit off topic, but I have been taking a second look at Yamaha and their newer YPAO with RSC which also operates in the time domain like Audyssey. It only EQ's down to about 31hz but Yamaha's receivers don't downsample the audio. It doesn't seem cost effective to go the separates route with Audyssey's stand alone equalizer unit to avoid downsampling of audio.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy378 View Post
I have a Denon X4000 receiver with Audyssey XT32. As many of you may be aware, the vast majority of home theater receivers don't have enough processing power to run Audyssey. As a result audio gets downsampled by the receiver (96KHz to 48KHz and 48KHz audio to 24KHz).
Wow. I did not know this.
Thanks for the info.
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post #72823 of 72835 Unread Today, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
But are they displaying a "before or after" graph?
After Audyssey calibration. ...In showing "very roughly" where and how much EQ Audyssey applied.
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post #72824 of 72835 Unread Today, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy378 View Post
I have a Denon X4000 receiver with Audyssey XT32. As many of you may be aware, the vast majority of home theater receivers don't have enough processing power to run Audyssey. As a result audio gets downsampled by the receiver (96KHz to 48KHz and 48KHz audio to 24KHz). Are there any Audyssey enabled home theater receivers on the market that don't downsample? Both CD's and high res DVD-Audio discs sound horrible with Audyssey enabled. This may be a bit off topic, but I have been taking a second look at Yamaha and their newer YPAO with RSC which also operates in the time domain like Audyssey. It only EQ's down to about 31hz but Yamaha's receivers don't downsample the audio. It doesn't seem cost effective to go the separates route with Audyssey's stand alone equalizer unit to avoid downsampling of audio.
It's up to you to decide which one is more important for you: hi-rez or Audyssey room correction? Are your speakers capable of reproducing 48 kHz signals from a 96 kHz hi-rez recordings? Does any program material contain such high frequencies? Are your ears capable in that range? So many questions come up with the issue of AVRs down-sampling hi-rez contents. BTW, how did you get to the conclusion that 48kHz is down-sampled to 24 kHz, please?
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post #72825 of 72835 Unread Today, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy378 View Post
I have a Denon X4000 receiver with Audyssey XT32. As many of you may be aware, the vast majority of home theater receivers don't have enough processing power to run Audyssey. As a result audio gets downsampled by the receiver (96KHz to 48KHz and 48KHz audio to 24KHz). Are there any Audyssey enabled home theater receivers on the market that don't downsample? Both CD's and high res DVD-Audio discs sound horrible with Audyssey enabled. This may be a bit off topic, but I have been taking a second look at Yamaha and their newer YPAO with RSC which also operates in the time domain like Audyssey. It only EQ's down to about 31hz but Yamaha's receivers don't downsample the audio. It doesn't seem cost effective to go the separates route with Audyssey's stand alone equalizer unit to avoid downsampling of audio.
Some Pro Audyssey separate components retain the resolution, without downsampling, I believe. ...More expensive too.
{I think it is from PC based units; Kal Rubinson knows best about this.}

All AV receivers and SSPs equipped with Audyssey downsample the resolution by half (eg.; 96kHz => 48kHz, but it does not go below that).

* Onkyo also (as Yamaha) does NOT downsample the hi-res material (96kHz stays 96kHz @ the output) when using AccuEQ.
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192kHz gets downsampled to 48kHz with Audyssey engaged.

48kHz remains @ 48kHz.

And that, with ALL Audyssey equipped AV receivers and SSPs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
192kHz gets downsampled to 48kHz with Audyssey engaged.

48kHz remains @ 48kHz.

And that, with ALL Audyssey equipped AV receivers and SSPs.
And here's Chris K.'s comment from FB:

Quote

Chris Kyriakakis: Some AVRs downsample and others pass it to Audyssey as is. Unfortunately I don't know of an easy way to check that. Perhaps their tech support guys would know. Or maybe it's hidden in the manual somewhere.

But let’s not forget some basic things: There is no loudspeaker that can reproduce frequencies above 30 kHz (I’m being generous here). There is also no mic that can capture frequencies above 30 kHz. So an algorithm that is in the business of measuring sound from speakers using microphones receives information up to 30 kHz (did I mention I was being generous?).

That would imply that there is no need for this algorithm to do anything beyond 60 kHz sampling rates per Nyquist’s Theorem. There is no information from the room that would tell the filters what to do up there.

So, yes, MultEQ will process high-resolution signals without having to downsample them. It’s just that it won’t be doing any “correction” at such high frequencies because there is nothing to correct.

Unquote
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
It's up to you to decide which one is more important for you: hi-rez or Audyssey room correction? Are your speakers capable of reproducing 48 kHz signals from a 96 kHz hi-rez recordings? Does any program material contain such high frequencies? Are your ears capable in that range? So many questions come up with the issue of AVRs down-sampling hi-rez contents. BTW, how did you get to the conclusion that 48kHz is down-sampled to 24 kHz, please?
It was from the article below:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...room-gain.html

To quote:

Now, a graph with the same set of test tones, but with Audyssey turned on. Note that the 30 kHz signal is no longer there. That is because the signal has been downsampled to 48 kHz, and the maximum analog frequency that can be passed through to the output is 1/2 of that, which is 24 kHz.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
And here's Chris K.'s comment from FB:

Quote

Chris Kyriakakis: Some AVRs downsample and others pass it to Audyssey as is. Unfortunately I don't know of an easy way to check that. Perhaps their tech support guys would know. Or maybe it's hidden in the manual somewhere.

But let’s not forget some basic things: There is no loudspeaker that can reproduce frequencies above 30 kHz (I’m being generous here). There is also no mic that can capture frequencies above 30 kHz. So an algorithm that is in the business of measuring sound from speakers using microphones receives information up to 30 kHz (did I mention I was being generous?).

That would imply that there is no need for this algorithm to do anything beyond 60 kHz sampling rates per Nyquist’s Theorem. There is no information from the room that would tell the filters what to do up there.

So, yes, MultEQ will process high-resolution signals without having to downsample them. It’s just that it won’t be doing any “correction” at such high frequencies because there is nothing to correct.

Unquote
We're not talking about what the AV receiver does with the hi-res audio material, but what Audyssey does with what it receives and how it proceeds (on the output).
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post #72830 of 72835 Unread Today, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy378 View Post
It was from the article below:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/audio...room-gain.html

To quote:

Now, a graph with the same set of test tones, but with Audyssey turned on. Note that the 30 kHz signal is no longer there. That is because the signal has been downsampled to 48 kHz, and the maximum analog frequency that can be passed through to the output is 1/2 of that, which is 24 kHz.
I'm still learning. I thought 48kHz was not downsampled to half. ,,, Only everything above 48kHz was downsampled to 48k.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
We're not talking about what the AV receiver does with the hi-res audio material, but what Audyssey does with what it receives and how it proceeds (on the output).
No way to separate these two issues Bob, they are in the same Box.
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
No way to separate these two issues Bob, they are in the same Box.
No, the AV receiver's manufacturers they do the hi-res audio the way it comes in.
Audyssey to retain the hi-res audio @ 96Khz , 88Khz, 192kHz, and 176kHz would need much more processing power for all those channels (up to 13 channels), and that cost much more money. So all of them they go with Audyssey that cost less. ...Then we all know the rest.
So everything gets downsampled with Audyssey, to 48kHz.

Only thing that I didn't know is that stuff @ 48kHz gets downsampled @ 24kHz.

Is it the fault of Denon/Marantz? I don't know, all I know is that Yamaha (YPAO) and Onkyo/Integra (AccuEQ) they don't downsample.
And I'm not sure about Pioneer (MCACC).

Last edited by NorthSky; Today at 01:50 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
No, the AV receiver's manufacturers they do the hi-res audio the way it comes in.
Audyssey to retain the hi-res audio @ 96Khz , 88Khz, 192kHz, and 176kHz would need much more processing power for all those channels (up to 13 channels), and that cost much more money. So all of them they go with Audyssey that cost less. ...Then we all know the rest.
So everything gets downsampled with Audyssey, to 48kHz.

Only thing that I didn't know is that stuff @ 48kHz gets downsampled @ 24kHz.

Is it the fault of Denon/Marantz? I don't know, all I know is that Yamaha (YPAO) and Onkyo/Integra (AccuEQ) they don't downsample.
And I'm not sure about Pioneer (MCACC).
Let's stop here for a moment Guys! Down-sampling to 24 kHz would mean the highest frequency reproduced by the AVR would be 12 kHz (analog) only. (Please refer to the Nyquist theorem.) But that wouldn't make too much sense, eh?

BTW, don't you think "Hi-Rez" is nothing but marketing mumbo jumbo? I would rather call it "More-Rez" instead, coz "More-Rez" actually has nothing to do with "improved" SQ. Just a waist of resources, isn't it? No microphone, no speakers, no ears need such resulution at all, IMHO. For me room correction is more important.
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Hi-res audio is used today for movie soundtracks on Blu-ray (Lossless audio; DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD), and for music downloads.
...And DVD Audio @ 96/24 for 5.1-channel, and 192/24 for 2-channel stereo.

SACD uses DSD (1 bit @ very high audio sampling rate frequency).

And some recordings on Blu-ray Audio are @ 96/24. ...Even on some Blu-ray Video.

CD (44/16) came in 1982. We are now in 2015 (almost), thirty-three years later. ...The machines (recording) are much better and resolute.

What would be real nice is to have Audyssey inside our receivers and SSPs retaining the high resolution audio that comes in, and EQuing our speakers with that same high audio resolution coming out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Hi-res audio is used today for movie soundtracks on Blu-ray (Lossless audio; DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD), and for music downloads.
...And DVD Audio @ 96/24 for 5.1-channel, and 192/24 for 2-channel stereo.

SACD uses DSD (1 bit @ very high audio sampling rate frequency).

And some recordings on Blu-ray Audio are @ 96/24. ...Even on some Blu-ray Video.

CD (44/16) came in 1982. We are now in 2015 (almost), thirty-three years later. ...The machines (recording) are much better and resolute.

What would be real nice is to have Audyssey inside our receivers and SSPs retaining the high resolution audio that comes in, and EQuing our speakers with that same high audio resolution coming out.
Again Bob, what do you/we benefit from sampling rates higher than 48 kHz? Simple question, Let's try to reply to it together.
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