"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2438 - AVS Forum
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post #73111 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 11:01 AM
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As I stated...no, you have to run the full Audyssey calibration after you add the sub. No way to load the old "speakers only" Audyssey cal and combine with the new "with sub" cal.

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post #73112 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 11:07 AM
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Alright man, thanks. Got an SVS sub so looking forward to it!
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post #73113 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Nope, you have to do the whole thing over. There shouldn't be any difference in how Audyssey EQs your speakers....they are all measured individually.
I agree that the OP has to recalibrate, but there are often differences in a recalibration due to differences in microphone positioning. It's almost impossible to get EXACTLY the same mic placements in successive calibrations.
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post #73114 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 04:06 PM
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While I agree, I've ran Audyssey dozens of times and have never noticed anything sounding differently unless I made an intentional change (in placement, gain, MLP, mic placement, etc.).
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post #73115 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Hey guys. I just bought a sub! I spent 10 calibrations without a sub getting my sound to something I love. Now with a sub I am afraid I won't get this sound from my speakers again, I have the settings saved on my computer. Is it possible to somehow just run audyseey for my sub when I get it and than load the saved speaker settings or do I have to do the whole thing over again and hope the frequencies match up similar.
Now that you are adding a sub, you will clearly be changing the sound you get. For one thing, the sub will be handling the frequencies below the crossover point, not the main speakers. While I can understand you concern that you may not get back to the "sweet spot" you have been enjoying, you should actually hear an improvement in the overall sound with the sub taking on the low frequency duties. If at first it sounds different, make sure you give yourself time to become accustomed with it. I'll bet you will be happy in the long run.

Also note that with the sub, you can move it around to different spots in order to find the best bass response, something you were not able to do with the mains. I encourage you to experiment.
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post #73116 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
While I agree, I've ran Audyssey dozens of times and have never noticed anything sounding differently unless I made an intentional change (in placement, gain, MLP, mic placement, etc.).
+1. Most important is the first mic position at the MLP, followed by utilizing the max. number of positions as recommended by Audyssey or the Audyssey set up guide.
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post #73117 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Now that you are adding a sub, you will clearly be changing the sound you get. For one thing, the sub will be handling the frequencies below the crossover point, not the main speakers. While I can understand you concern that you may not get back to the "sweet spot" you have been enjoying, you should actually hear an improvement in the overall sound with the sub taking on the low frequency duties. If at first it sounds different, make sure you give yourself time to become accustomed with it. I'll bet you will be happy in the long run.

Also note that with the sub, you can move it around to different spots in order to find the best bass response, something you were not able to do with the mains. I encourage you to experiment.
Another +1.

@ Federo: and when your done with the setup, set all your speakers to "Small" and select an initial crossover of 80Hz. Also make sure DEQ is ON and DynVol is OFF. And then give yourself time to become accustomed with the new calibration and setup.
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post #73118 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Now that you are adding a sub, you will clearly be changing the sound you get. For one thing, the sub will be handling the frequencies below the crossover point, not the main speakers. While I can understand you concern that you may not get back to the "sweet spot" you have been enjoying, you should actually hear an improvement in the overall sound with the sub taking on the low frequency duties. If at first it sounds different, make sure you give yourself time to become accustomed with it. I'll bet you will be happy in the long run.

Also note that with the sub, you can move it around to different spots in order to find the best bass response, something you were not able to do with the mains. I encourage you to experiment.
Each time I move the sub do I have to keep doing a new calibration or does it matter.
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post #73119 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Another +1.

@ Federo: and when your done with the setup, set all your speakers to "Small" and select an initial crossover of 80Hz. Also make sure DEQ is ON and DynVol is OFF. And then give yourself time to become accustomed with the new calibration and setup.
Thats what I use now unless I am listening late at night. Thanks for the info!
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post #73120 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Each time I move the sub do I have to keep doing a new calibration or does it matter.
Yes!

But, to save you some time please follow the Subwoofer Crawl video before running Audyssey calibration:
.
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Last edited by mogorf; 12-15-2014 at 05:18 PM.
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post #73121 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 06:19 PM
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^ Is that some new hip hop dance........ the subwoofer crawl?











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post #73122 of 73139 Old 12-15-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
^ Is that some new hip hop dance........ the subwoofer crawl?
Yeah, sort of,...its something that may easily lead you to finding the best place in-room for your sub(s) for achiving deep, smooth and even bass when its done properly. Part of a so-called "cold set up" prior to running your room EQ s/w. Should you have little kids they will enjoy what Papa is doing by riding on your back. What you tell your better half for doing stuff like that is up to you or your talent!!!
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post #73123 of 73139 Old Yesterday, 01:58 AM
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post #73124 of 73139 Old Yesterday, 08:40 PM
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So I ran 4 different calibrations with a subwoofer and each time although my sub is only 6.9 fee from my PML audyseey says it is over 9 feet all 4 times. Since I do not have carpet I lay blankets down everytime in order to get a proper frequency for the speakers as this works but is this the reason the sub measurement is way off. I have it in front of my tv, I tried twice on the left twice on the right. My set up is small from speakers, tv to PML but wide open on either side. Maybe move the sub to the side for next test. Although it says it is 9ft the sub seems quit on audysee although when I toggle , EQ is lots of bass, aud bypass lots, off is lots. This time though the center doesn't seem to pop out in Audyseey like it had previously. Anyway I am able to bring up my old settings and manually adjust the distance, also is it possible to simple pre put in a distance of a speaker or sub before the test.
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post #73125 of 73139 Old Yesterday, 08:45 PM
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The sub distance determined by Audyssey is really a delay, not a physical distance. It is quite common for the AVR distance to be larger than the physical distance because of internal delays due to the sub's electronic circuitry. You should not be concerned at all.
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post #73126 of 73139 Old Yesterday, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The sub distance determined by Audyssey is really a delay, not a physical distance. It is quite common for the AVR distance to be larger than the physical distance because of internal delays due to the sub's electronic circuitry. You should not be concerned at all.
ok sweet. Thank you

found that in the beginners guide, long read

"26. You may also notice that Audyssey has set your subwoofer distance from the Main Listening Position much greater than it actually is if you measured it with a tape measure. This is perfectly normal. Audyssey does not measure the actual distance, but the delay between the signal leaving the subwoofer and arriving at the mic. Because many subwoofers have internal circuitry and filters inside them, they can add a significant delay to the sound arriving at the mic. Audyssey takes this delay into account and sets the subwoofer distance accordingly. Do NOT change the subwoofer distance manually."

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post #73127 of 73139 Old Yesterday, 09:14 PM
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That's right:

1. The distance to the subwoofer starts @ its woofer driver's voice coil (that's roughly four to six inches additional).
2. The subwoofer's own crossover produces an electrical delay* that can vary from roughly one to four feet, depending of the sub itself and its positioning.
3. And that also includes the digital filters from its own DSP EQ. ...And Phase selection.

* One foot distance equals one millisecond delay. ...Your own sub's x-over is roughly adding 2ms delay. ...Which is generally better than the average.
And Audyssey compensated for it.

Last edited by NorthSky; Today at 01:47 PM. Reason: Typo
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post #73128 of 73139 Old Yesterday, 09:19 PM
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...It's all mechanical really.
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post #73129 of 73139 Old Today, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
So I ran 4 different calibrations with a subwoofer and each time although my sub is only 6.9 fee from my PML audyseey says it is over 9 feet all 4 times. Since I do not have carpet I lay blankets down everytime in order to get a proper frequency for the speakers as this works but is this the reason the sub measurement is way off. I have it in front of my tv, I tried twice on the left twice on the right. My set up is small from speakers, tv to PML but wide open on either side. Maybe move the sub to the side for next test. Although it says it is 9ft the sub seems quit on audysee although when I toggle , EQ is lots of bass, aud bypass lots, off is lots. This time though the center doesn't seem to pop out in Audyseey like it had previously. Anyway I am able to bring up my old settings and manually adjust the distance, also is it possible to simple pre put in a distance of a speaker or sub before the test.
It's for regular questions like this that I wrote the FAQ

f)1. Why has Audyssey set my sub distance much greater than it actually measures?
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post #73130 of 73139 Old Today, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Since I do not have carpet I lay blankets down everytime in order to get a proper frequency for the speakers as this works but is this the reason the sub measurement is way off.

Your listening environment should not be altered from the way it normally is. You will not get accurate results if you add blankets for the calibration that aren't normally there. Leave your room the way it normally is when you run your calibration. This is covered in the Audyssey FAQ.
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post #73131 of 73139 Old Today, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Your listening environment should not be altered from the way it normally is. You will not get accurate results if you add blankets for the calibration that aren't normally there. Leave your room the way it normally is when you run your calibration. This is covered in the Audyssey FAQ.

+1.

On a second note I would buy carpets, they serve multiple purposes. Just thinking out loud!
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post #73132 of 73139 Old Today, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It's for regular questions like this that I wrote the FAQ

f)1. Why has Audyssey set my sub distance much greater than it actually measures?
I read that again last night. Mostly for the sub info. I did read somewhere, not sure there or somewhere else that the sub gain should be between -+3 and my calibration set it at -4. Should I re-calibrate
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post #73133 of 73139 Old Today, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
I did read somewhere, not sure there or somewhere else that the sub gain should be between -+3 and my calibration set it at -4. Should I re-calibrate
The Sub's Gain control is @ the rear of the sub itself (round black knob). * People usually set it @ between 9 and 11 o'clock.

The Sub channel level (trim control) from your receiver has been set by Audyssey @ -4.0dB ... That is perfect, leave everything there, your Audyssey calibration is done. ...Mission accomplished.
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post #73134 of 73139 Old Today, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
I read that again last night. Mostly for the sub info. I did read somewhere, not sure there or somewhere else that the sub gain should be between -+3 and my calibration set it at -4. Should I re-calibrate
I think you are referring to the sub trim level in the AVR.

If so - that is fine. The ±3.5dB thing is just a rough guide. My sub trim comes in at -6dB for example and I am happy with it. The basic idea is to get enough sub trim to drive the sub amp input sufficiently, but not so much trim you run the sub amp input into clipping. Think of the trim setting as a control which varies the output voltage of the sub preout on your AVR. You want enough output voltage so that you don't feed the sub with a puny signal, forcing you to increase the gain excessively on the sub (and along with it, the noise floor) and OTOH you don't want to feed the sub amp input with so much voltage that it is more than the sub amp can handle and drive it into clipping. At -4db trim you are good to go.
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post #73135 of 73139 Old Today, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I think you are referring to the sub trim level in the AVR.

If so - that is fine. The ±3.5dB thing is just a rough guide. My sub trim comes in at -6dB for example and I am happy with it. The basic idea is to get enough sub trim to drive the sub amp input sufficiently, but not so much trim you run the sub amp input into clipping. Think of the trim setting as a control which varies the output voltage of the sub preout on your AVR. You want enough output voltage so that you don't feed the sub with a puny signal, forcing you to increase the gain excessively on the sub (and along with it, the noise floor) and OTOH you don't want to feed the sub amp input with so much voltage that it is more than the sub amp can handle and drive it into clipping. At -4db trim you are good to go.
ok good. I am going to go get a carpet today and re-run. I find the bass is weak without EQ on. Guess it's something I have to get use too. I'm going to move and rerun again. I't's a pain to keep doing calibrations yet oddly fun all the same , ha. Thanks for your help. Hopefully I won;t need to bug you anymore, you've been very helpful. Oh, one more Q. When I am turning up the bass, is it best to do it from the AVR increasing that -4.0 to say -2.0 or do it directly from the sub. I have the gain on the sub at 12 oclock.

Last edited by Federo5; Today at 02:29 PM.
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post #73136 of 73139 Old Today, 02:34 PM
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Leave your subwoofer's gain control alone. If you want to raise the sub channel level, do it in your receiver from the sub's trim control.
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post #73137 of 73139 Old Today, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I think you are referring to the sub trim level in the AVR.

If so - that is fine. The ±3.5dB thing is just a rough guide.
If it's a rough guide then it should be taken out of the FAQ. No need for rough guides, but rational guides.

Quote:
My sub trim comes in at -6dB for example and I am happy with it.
Hm, rough guide versus happiness.


Quote:
The basic idea is to get enough sub trim to drive the sub amp input sufficiently, but not so much trim you run the sub amp input into clipping.
Mark Seaton has already explained that this is not the case, why someone is sticking to this recurring "clipping" idea is a mystery!!!


Quote:
Think of the trim setting as a control which varies the output voltage of the sub preout on your AVR.
So far so good.

Quote:
You want enough output voltage so that you don't feed the sub with a puny signal, forcing you to increase the gain excessively on the sub (and along with it, the noise floor) and OTOH you don't want to feed the sub amp input with so much voltage that it is more than the sub amp can handle and drive it into clipping.
Gain again, ...the gain structure (in general) of an amplifier at 10x means a voltage on the input at 1 Volt will become 10 Volts on the output, yet, a 0.1 Volt will become 1 Volt. Clear as hell. Did the gain of 10x change? No way.

Quote:
At -4db trim you are good to go.
Agree.
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post #73138 of 73139 Old Today, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
ok good. I am going to go get a carpet today and re-run.


Quote:
I find the bass is weak without EQ on. Guess it's something I have to get use too. I'm going to move and rerun again.
DEQ is there for you to restore tonal balance whenever listening below 0 dB Master Volume calibrated reference level.

Quote:
I't's a pain to keep doing calibrations yet oddly fun all the same , ha.
Ha...


Quote:
Oh, one more Q. When I am turning up the bass, is it best to do it from the AVR increasing that -4.0 to say -2.0 or do it directly from the sub. I have the gain on the sub at 12 oclock.
Best is to do it on the AVR coz you can easily return to the original calibration level. You may seal the subwoofer knob with Scotch tape to ensure no accidental bump is made like during clean up dusting.
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post #73139 of 73139 Old Today, 07:51 PM
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So I just got my new Denon AVR-X5200 and went through the Audssey setup and after it went through to check all of the "Info" and is says that MultEQ XT32 is On and Dynamic EQ is set to on but when I go and watch a movie and hit the info button it says that MultEX XT32 is off.

What is / are the preferred settings (Trust me I know opinions vary) but I just went from the X4000 to the 5200 and I am not impressed at all yet.
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