"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2439 - AVS Forum
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post #73141 of 73156 Old Today, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The EQ graphs are really not useful at all in determining whether your calibration is "good" or not. Other than what it sounds like to you, the only other way to assess the calibration would be to use an external measuring system like REW.
So I ran a second calibration with the carpet after the first, made some adjustments and it is the best it has sounded. From when I started the first two months to now is night and day. I thought at first life with this system was optimized using dynamic EQ and volume. I could not understand why you guys all said you did not use audysee settings and left it off. I can tell the difference now with audysee on with my new calibration but off sounds great too. There is a noticeable difference off and on but it is far from VERY. The difference is where the dialogue seems to come from. It's pretty cool, they both sound good. I listened to music and found with Audyseey on the parts singing are more centered. With audseey bypass it's less centered and left right distinguishable. Off is similar to Audysee. Now, also the bass is at -.05 and is very nice and vibrant without EQ. With EQ it is very immersive. Simply fantastic this calibration. The carpet was a tremendous help for the center speaker. I really understand now the importance of eliminating reflections. I also paid very close attention to precisely centering my tripod and mic to the millimeter each test. It pays dividends. Thanks very much to those who responded.
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post #73142 of 73156 Old Today, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by funhouse69 View Post
So I just got my new Denon AVR-X5200 and went through the Audssey setup and after it went through to check all of the "Info" and is says that MultEQ XT32 is On and Dynamic EQ is set to on but when I go and watch a movie and hit the info button it says that MultEX XT32 is off.

What is / are the preferred settings (Trust me I know opinions vary) but I just went from the X4000 to the 5200 and I am not impressed at all yet.
In the audio setup menu, select Audyssey MlutEQ XT32 (On), and select Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume On or Off as you desire.
If Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume is On, or both of them are On, then Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is automatically On.

The preferred settings are the ones you prefer you, not me.
But if you want to know; me I prefer Audyssey MultEQ XT32 On, and Dynamic EQ Off, and Dynamic Volume Off. ...For movies.
For music, it depends; sometimes XT32 On, and other times Off. ...And in stereo music and in multichannel music listening. ...Music videos too, on Blu-ray, and Blu-ray Audio, and hybrid SACDs, and DVD Audio...it all depends.
Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol always Off for me, for both movies and music.

But! Check Dynamic EQ On, most people like it best. Me I'm just different than most, that's all. I'm really me, nobody else.

♦ KEY WORD TO ♪ ECSTASY: EXPERIMENT
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post #73143 of 73156 Old Today, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The EQ graphs are really not useful at all in determining whether your calibration is "good" or not. Other than what it sounds like to you, the only other way to assess the calibration would be to use an external measuring system like REW.
Yes, the graphs show the corrections that were applied, but they don't show how the speakers measured afterwards.

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Denon x4000, Samsung LED TV, B&W 704 mains, two M&K subwoofers, Oppo 103, etc.
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post #73144 of 73156 Old Today, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
If it's a rough guide then it should be taken out of the FAQ. No need for rough guides, but rational guides.
Your comment has been noted.

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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Gain again, ...the gain structure (in general) of an amplifier at 10x means a voltage on the input at 1 Volt will become 10 Volts on the output, yet, a 0.1 Volt will become 1 Volt. Clear as hell. Did the gain of 10x change? No way.
You are still confusing different things. I will have one more attempt at explaining it and then will give up.

  1. The sub preout on the AVR delivers a voltage.
  2. This voltage will change according to the trim level set in the AVR, all the way up to the maximum voltage that the sub preout can deliver.
  3. Similarly, the sub's amplifier will have an input sensitivity. This sensitivity is varied by the sub amp's gain control.
  4. There will be a voltage that will be greater than the maximum that the sub's amp can handle before it clips.
  5. The object of setting the AVR trim is to ensure that at no time does the preout voltage from the AVR exceed that which can be safely handled by the sub amp's input.
  6. If you set the AVR trim to a high positive figure - say +8dB, then it is quite possible you will clip the sub amp's input.
  7. The way to avoid this possibility is to set the AVR trim lower and the sub gain control higher (to maintain the same SPL output from the sub).

This really is my last word on this subject, and, hopefully, yours too.
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post #73145 of 73156 Old Today, 05:29 AM
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lol Here is a test of the former and the latter is not for you to say.
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post #73146 of 73156 Old Today, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
ok good. I am going to go get a carpet today and re-run. I find the bass is weak without EQ on. Guess it's something I have to get use too. I'm going to move and rerun again. I't's a pain to keep doing calibrations yet oddly fun all the same , ha. Thanks for your help. Hopefully I won;t need to bug you anymore, you've been very helpful. Oh, one more Q. When I am turning up the bass, is it best to do it from the AVR increasing that -4.0 to say -2.0 or do it directly from the sub. I have the gain on the sub at 12 oclock.
You are welcome. Always use the AVR trims to make changes to bass level - it is easier then to go back to a known setting if you need to. Unless your sub has a digital volume readout, as some do, it can be difficult to set the sub precisely.
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post #73147 of 73156 Old Today, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Your comment has been noted.



You are still confusing different things. I will have one more attempt at explaining it and then will give up.

  1. The sub preout on the AVR delivers a voltage.
  2. This voltage will change according to the trim level set in the AVR, all the way up to the maximum voltage that the sub preout can deliver.
  3. Similarly, the sub's amplifier will have an input sensitivity. This sensitivity is varied by the sub amp's gain control.
  4. There will be a voltage that will be greater than the maximum that the sub's amp can handle before it clips.
  5. The object of setting the AVR trim is to ensure that at no time does the preout voltage from the AVR exceed that which can be safely handled by the sub amp's input.
  6. If you set the AVR trim to a high positive figure - say +8dB, then it is quite possible you will clip the sub amp's input.
  7. The way to avoid this possibility is to set the AVR trim lower and the sub gain control higher (to maintain the same SPL output from the sub).

This really is my last word on this subject, and, hopefully, yours too.
This is what happens when a non-engineer tries to explain how amplifiers work.

The best thing I can recommend you is to consult with Mark Seaton on you "theories".

But before doing that, please study and make no more confusion between gain and volume. And don't forget to look into the function of the control knob found typically on the back side of any subwoofer plate amp.
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post #73148 of 73156 Old Today, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
This is what happens when a non-engineer tries to explain how amplifiers work.
As an engineer I can confirm the description you quoted is easy to understand and accurate. And there is no confusion between gain and volume as only the gain structure was explained and the word 'volume' wasn't even used.
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post #73149 of 73156 Old Today, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
As an engineer I can confirm the description you quoted is easy to understand and accurate. And there is no confusion between gain and volume as only the gain structure was explained and the word 'volume' wasn't even used.
Yes, thank you, Igor. It is good to see an Engineer confirm this. I think I know who doesn’t seem to understand the function of the knob on the subwoofer amp, and it isn't me
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post #73150 of 73156 Old Today, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
This really is my last word on this subject
over/under 1 hour, I lost!
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post #73151 of 73156 Unread Today, 05:42 PM
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I have just replaced a Gen-1 Emotiva XPA-3, which was driving my left, center and right speakers, with a Gen-2 XPA-7 which, for the time being, is only driving the same LCR speakers. Anticipating a possible difference in the amp's gain structure, I carefully measured the output levels of the LCR speakers at the MLP prior to swapping amps. After installing the XPA-7, I re-measured the LCR (the mic and REW configuration remained constant during the swap), and the speakers measured consistently exactly 3dB lower.

My question is this: I raised the AVR trim for the LCR speakers 3dB. Should I re-run the Audyssey calibration? I am thinking that changing levels has no impact on the Audyssey filters, so I should be OK.

Comments?
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post #73152 of 73156 Unread Today, 05:54 PM
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No need to rerun the Audyssey calibration.
You are thinking right, I truly believe, in that by changing the trim levels of your three front mains in your AVR has no effect on Audyssey's FIR filters.
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post #73153 of 73156 Unread Today, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have just replaced a Gen-1 Emotiva XPA-3, which was driving my left, center and right speakers, with a Gen-2 XPA-7 which, for the time being, is only driving the same LCR speakers. Anticipating a possible difference in the amp's gain structure, I carefully measured the output levels of the LCR speakers at the MLP prior to swapping amps. After installing the XPA-7, I re-measured the LCR (the mic and REW configuration remained constant during the swap), and the speakers measured consistently exactly 3dB lower.



My question is this: I raised the AVR trim for the LCR speakers 3dB. Should I re-run the Audyssey calibration? I am thinking that changing levels has no impact on the Audyssey filters, so I should be OK.

Comments?
This is interesting Jerry. Just looked up the specs of both your amps on Emotiva site and they both are rated with an amplifier gain of 29 dBs.

Nonetheless, to be on the safe side I would re-run Audyssey again. Of course we already know that channel trims have no effect on the filters set by Audyssey, but a properly measured trim calibration will surely influence how DEQ works.

XPA-3 specs

XPA-7 specs

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post #73154 of 73156 Unread Today, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
This is interesting Jerry. Just looked up the specs of both your amps on Emotiva site and they both are rated with an amplifier gain of 29 dBs.

Nonetheless, to be on the safe side I would re-run Audyssey again. Of course we already know that channel trims have no effect on the filters set by Audyssey, but a properly measured trim calibration will surely influence how DEQ works.

XPA-3 specs

XPA-7 specs
Recall one is a gen 1 and the new one is a gen 2.
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post #73155 of 73156 Unread Today, 06:28 PM
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Experiment: Rerun the Audyssey calibration, and measure with REW, and compare to your previous calibration on them three front mains of yours.
That way you'll have your confirmation.
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post #73156 of 73156 Unread Today, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Yes, thank you, Igor. It is good to see an Engineer confirm this. I think I know who doesn’t seem to understand the function of the knob on the subwoofer amp, and it isn't me
Maybe I shouldn't of asked in the first place ha ha
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