"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2441 - AVS Forum
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post #73201 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Yes, I've read those FAQs extensively - great help.
Unfortunately, My new home / great room is somewhat of a reflecto-chamber. All hardwoods, leather couches, 9ft flat ceilings etc. I've got a massive area rug in the main listening area completely covering up the wood, but that doesn't help the rest. The closest wall behind the main listening position is 25-30ft away.
Not much treatment I can do, or rather, that the wife would allow me to do that wouldn't look horrendous.
That could explain the problems you are having with dialog intelligibility. Unfortunately, short of adding treatments or using a different room there isn't a lot you can do. Room correction EQ alone won't help in a room that is so lively. Good quality headphones might be an option. If you use good headphones and add a bass shaker under your couch, you can get a really good experience, with the bass feeling like it is coming from the headphones, even though it is the couch getting a good thump. Crowson and Buttkicker make good tactile transducers.
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post #73202 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 02:46 PM
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Is it ok to just turn on dynamic volume without dyn EQ r vice versa or should both always be on together.
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post #73203 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Is it ok to just turn on dynamic volume without dyn EQ r vice versa or should both always be on together.
That's entirely up to you.

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post #73204 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 04:00 PM
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Audyssey would say it's not OK -- the tonal adjustments of DEQ are necessary to keep the balance consistent as DV is lowering the volume. However, some folks find the bass boost in DEQ sort of counterproductive if they are trying to lower the late night bass using DV. Personally, I find the sound to be too thin and anemic if I'm using DV without DEQ, but there is a segment of folks out there who just hate DEQ. I use it all the time, although I always use the Ref Level Offset to tone it down a bit (rather err on the side of less compensation than too much).

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post #73205 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 04:34 PM
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How does reference level offset differ from surround parameters low frequency effects. I too find it hard to find a proper late night setting as eq just pounds the bass and surrounds.
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post #73206 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
although I always use the Ref Level Offset to tone it down a bit (rather err on the side of less compensation than too much).
I hate to ask but where do you do this? I see in the manual you can choose 5, 10, or 15 db but I don't see anything telling how to choose?
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post #73207 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 04:39 PM
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Looks like 15db with eq on really lowers the surrounds nicely . I assume 5 and 15 are for movies
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post #73208 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
I hate to ask but where do you do this? I see in the manual you can choose 5, 10, or 15 db but I don't see anything telling how to choose?
When you turn on dyn EQ it activates the reference level just below. Its set at 0.

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post #73209 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
When you turn on dyn EQ it activates the reference level just below. Its set at 0.
I get that, I think. But how do you choose between 5, 10 and 15? Or am I completely misunderstanding this?
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post #73210 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 05:05 PM
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Click on the "0" and you will be able to change the setting.
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post #73211 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
How does reference level offset differ from surround parameters low frequency effects. I too find it hard to find a proper late night setting as eq just pounds the bass and surrounds.
This. Is any of the reference offsets good for movies or 15 specifically
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post #73212 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 05:49 PM
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It's covered pretty well in the FAQ.

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post #73213 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
I get that, I think. But how do you choose between 5, 10 and 15? Or am I completely misunderstanding this?
You have to access it from within the menus.
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post #73214 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
I get that, I think. But how do you choose between 5, 10 and 15? Or am I completely misunderstanding this?
If you're asking how to change the reference level offset (RLO), it's in the Denon menus, as someone else pointed out.

But if you're asking what number to choose, it's a matter of personal preference. The RLO controls how much increase in subwoofer and surround speaker volume you want at volume levels below reference (which is set at 0 dB after calibration). If RLO = 0, you get the maximum increase in both of these things. That is supposed to work with the way BluRay movies are mastered for the home (I say "supposed to," because this isn't always the case).

If you set RLO = -15 dB, then you are getting the minimum level of added subwoofer and surround volumes at lower volume levels. Obviously, the other setting given you more moderate levels of adjustment. With Dynamic EQ off, there is no additional subwoofer or surround volume added at lower volume levels.

Basically, using Dynamic RQ and choosing the reference level you want is totally up to your preference. You'll find a range of opinions here on this. I generally have it set to RLO = 0 for movies unless the surrounds seem too loud; I leave it at RLO = -10 for most cable TV (shows from the BBC seem better with DynEQ off, or else the surround channels are ridiculously loud), and I turn off DynEQ for all music.

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post #73215 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
If you're asking how to change the reference level offset (RLO), it's in the Denon menus, as someone else pointed out.
Gotcha. I was looking at the pdf manual and just didn't see a clear way to physically change the setting. I got it now. thanks.
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post #73216 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
If you're asking how to change the reference level offset (RLO), it's in the Denon menus, as someone else pointed out.

But if you're asking what number to choose, it's a matter of personal preference. The RLO controls how much increase in subwoofer and surround speaker volume you want at volume levels below reference (which is set at 0 dB after calibration). If RLO = 0, you get the maximum increase in both of these things. That is supposed to work with the way BluRay movies are mastered for the home (I say "supposed to," because this isn't always the case).

If you set RLO = -15 dB, then you are getting the minimum level of added subwoofer and surround volumes at lower volume levels. Obviously, the other setting given you more moderate levels of adjustment. With Dynamic EQ off, there is no additional subwoofer or surround volume added at lower volume levels.

Basically, using Dynamic RQ and choosing the reference level you want is totally up to your preference. You'll find a range of opinions here on this. I generally have it set to RLO = 0 for movies unless the surrounds seem too loud; I leave it at RLO = -10 for most cable TV (shows from the BBC seem better with DynEQ off, or else the surround channels are ridiculously loud), and I turn off DynEQ for all music.
What do you do with dyn volume, leave it off? And why do you have -10 for tv, do you find your surrounds too loud? I find the only time surrounds are loud with DQ on is when watching blu rays.
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post #73217 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 11:31 PM
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Have to say its been a journey from a month and a half ago till now. Asking lots of stupid q's. Running probably 15 -20 calibrations in an apartment building , maybe more. Each time learning something new, than realizing the sound could be better either because of improper calibration, room treatments, unrealistic expectations, lack of subwoofer. In the two months i treated the room with a carpet, purchased an svs sub and i can honestly say this is the first time since I got the equipmemt i have zero desire to run another test. I nailed the calibrations from your tips and from the FAQ's. One thing i learned is EVERYTHING in a room effects the test in some way and nothing will ever sound perfect. I know have zero distortion with dyn eq and vol off and with audyseey off, audyseey sounds better slightly, more crisp, clear. I know am able to enjoy any input after tonight with your help utalizing the ref level offset. For the last 4 days my sound in the day was superb but at night when i turn eq on and dyn volume the bass/ surrounds boomed, if i turned off lost detail bc it was low volume. My solution up until today was to change the settings in surround parameter but utalizing the offset sounds amazing. The dilogue stays crisp and is not overwhelmed yet the fronts and surround/bass stay focused but dont takeover. Subdued but present. Im very satisfied and feel they cant get better for my current situation. Thanks very much guys.

Last edited by Federo5; 12-22-2014 at 11:37 PM.
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post #73218 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 11:33 PM
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Now any tips to take it to the next level without adding a second sub, lol. Are there any boosters or anything to purchase to compliment my marantz 7008 and klipsch speakers in the future to continue to improve detail or is the only way to upgrade speakers.

Oh and my sub has a auto standby feature. Is this best to have it on than turning it off/on everyday. I noticed a few times already once the sub goes in to standby it doesn't always come on right away watching television so i toggle the on/auto standby. Will it damage the sub to keep ON 24/7 or turn on off everyday from main the power switch

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post #73219 of 73230 Old 12-22-2014, 11:37 PM
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Have you tried Dirac Live?

www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a

Last edited by NorthSky; 12-22-2014 at 11:40 PM.
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post #73220 of 73230 Old 12-23-2014, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
What do you do with dyn volume, leave it off? And why do you have -10 for tv, do you find your surrounds too loud? I find the only time surrounds are loud with DQ on is when watching blu rays.
Yes and yes. It's a matter of preference on both of these points. I only use Dyn Vol when I have to keep the volume up to hear dialogue and then find the action scenes too loud in a movie I don't care about. If people were sleeping in my home or if I had shared walls with others, I might use it more often.

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post #73221 of 73230 Old 12-23-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Now any tips to take it to the next level without adding a second sub, lol. Are there any boosters or anything to putchase to compliment my marantz 7008 and klipsch speakers in the future to continue to improve detail or is the only way to upgrade speakers.
Speakers and room acoustics have the most effect on the quality of the sound you hear. You have to listen to speakers in your room to find out if they'll be better. Automated roomEQ like Audyssey can only do so much. (Although it's a lot )

Quote:
Oh and my sub has a auto standby feature. Is this best to have it on than turning it off/on everyday. I noticed a few times already once the sub goes in to standby it doesn't always come on right away watching television so i toggle the on/auto standby. Will it damage the sub to keep ON 24/7 or turn on off everyday from main the power switch
If you can afford the cost of the extra electricity should be OK, but you'll have to decide that.

What's the current trim level in your receiver for your subwoofer?

Raising the signal level going to the subwoofer should persuade the subwoofer to turn on sooner. It'll turn on when there are lower voltage signals in the low bass provided by the source material (TV, for example). In other words, turn down the gain control knob on the subwoofer slightly and rerun Audyssey so that the subwoofer trim level is slightly higher (i.e. at a slightly higher signal voltage) but the sound level is the same at your main listening position.

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post #73222 of 73230 Old 12-23-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
How does reference level offset differ from surround parameters low frequency effects. I too find it hard to find a proper late night setting as eq just pounds the bass and surrounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
I hate to ask but where do you do this? I see in the manual you can choose 5, 10, or 15 db but I don't see anything telling how to choose?
FAQ:

g)3. What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?
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post #73223 of 73230 Old 12-23-2014, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Oh and my sub has a auto standby feature. Is this best to have it on than turning it off/on everyday. I noticed a few times already once the sub goes in to standby it doesn't always come on right away watching television so i toggle the on/auto standby. Will it damage the sub to keep ON 24/7 or turn on off everyday from main the power switch
Best is to select On, over Off and Auto. ...And leave it there forever.
...No damage, no cost, all good, all for the best without anything 'bass' important missing (the few first seconds or more when in Auto mode).

Basically you want your sub(s) On @ all time. Because on Auto it turns On only when there is Bass in there, and turns Off after 30 minutes or so of inactivity. And when in that situation you'd always miss the bass in the first five seconds or so (very bad, not recommended).

Last edited by NorthSky; 12-23-2014 at 07:24 PM.
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post #73224 of 73230 Old 12-23-2014, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Have you tried Dirac Live?

www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a
Never heard of it but I am on the website now. Don't tell me I'll have to run another calibration, I don;t even wanna hear it, lol
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post #73225 of 73230 Old 12-23-2014, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Speakers and room acoustics have the most effect on the quality of the sound you hear. You have to listen to speakers in your room to find out if they'll be better. Automated roomEQ like Audyssey can only do so much. (Although it's a lot )



If you can afford the cost of the extra electricity should be OK, but you'll have to decide that.

What's the current trim level in your receiver for your subwoofer?

Raising the signal level going to the subwoofer should persuade the subwoofer to turn on sooner. It'll turn on when there are lower voltage signals in the low bass provided by the source material (TV, for example). In other words, turn down the gain control knob on the subwoofer slightly and rerun Audyssey so that the subwoofer trim level is slightly higher (i.e. at a slightly higher signal voltage) but the sound level is the same at your main listening position.
It set my trim at -3 for the subwoofer. I am happy with everything now, this is as good a sound as I have ever had. I am very pleased. I might have the diologue a tad "richer" sounding as with previous calibrations but that seemed to be at a cost of detail from the fronts, probably had to do with the calibrations I was running. ( mic distance from couch and blankets on the floor) I now noticed since last night the sub will turn on but it has to have something really bassy to do which is fine. My gf was watching a disney movie and it stayed off but I put on Bourne Identity and it turned on within 10 seconds.

Last edited by Federo5; 12-23-2014 at 11:06 PM.
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post #73226 of 73230 Old 12-23-2014, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Now any tips to take it to the next level without adding a second sub, lol. Are there any boosters or anything to purchase to compliment my marantz 7008 and klipsch speakers in the future to continue to improve detail or is the only way to upgrade speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Have you tried Dirac Live?

www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a
Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
Never heard of it but I am on the website now. Don't tell me I'll have to run another calibration, I don't even wanna hear it, lol
You asked for "any tips to take it to the next level (no 2nd sub)", for "any boosters or anything to purchase to compliment my Marantz 7008 and Klipsch speakers in the future to continue to improve detail" (all above in your first quote, highlighted in red).

Well, short of acoustical room treatments, or upgrading your Klipsch speakers to Magico loudspeaker ones (all around); that is one "tip" (solution to a higher listening surround sound experience). ...Closer to audio nirvana bliss. ...I think. ...And very affordable too.
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post #73227 of 73230 Old 12-24-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
It set my trim at -3 for the subwoofer. I am happy with everything now, this is as good a sound as I have ever had. I am very pleased. I might have the diologue a tad "richer" sounding as with previous calibrations but that seemed to be at a cost of detail from the fronts, probably had to do with the calibrations I was running. ( mic distance from couch and blankets on the floor) I now noticed since last night the sub will turn on but it has to have something really bassy to do which is fine. My gf was watching a disney movie and it stayed off but I put on Bourne Identity and it turned on within 10 seconds.
You might double check to make sure all of your speakers are set to Small (enable bass management) and raise crossovers to the vicinity of 80 Hz. If the sub is only getting the LFE channel and maybe only the very lowest bass from the other channels, that might explain why it's not turning on and why the bass seems to be lacking.

Otherwise, I'd have to suspect something's wrong in the sub's auto-turnon circuitry. My ancient Energy auto-turnon sub turns on in much less than a second.

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post #73228 of 73230 Old 12-24-2014, 09:23 AM
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I agree with Bob, leave the sub on or your gonna miss some bass.

If you insist on using the auto-on feature, you may want to try using a y-spitter and connecting to both inputs on your sub. This raises the input signal by 6db and helps with subs that won't come on when needed.

You will of course have to lower your sub gain by 6db after you split the signal.
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post #73229 of 73230 Old 12-24-2014, 09:23 AM
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Double post.
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post #73230 of 73230 Old Today, 08:05 PM
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Well... I have been reading all these posts about calibrations and settings ... I will be getting the 7200W receiver next month but I am truly beginning to worry about all of this . It seems that it will be a nightmare of dozens of different inputs and different calibrations and settings in order to obtain a decent sound out of these receivers if I am going to believe all these threads ... hope not , and that Denon will have some way to set everything in a more simple way .
I have my old trusty 5803 with a simple set up , not too complicated and I have had wonderful sound out of it all these years .
Unfortunately , it needs to be upgraded in order to get Dolby True-HD , Atmos, etc , so that is why the 7200W is coming to play .
Now, having said that , I think that perhaps I will be having some problems with the way I have my subs (2) set up and this Audyssey thing on the incoming receiver ...
I have my speakers on "large" (all of them) and the two subs on LFE+Main and I do get plenty of very low bass on the subs . BTW, the subs are in "auto " and they turn on instantly .
All of my speakers ( Sonus Faber "Electa Amator II" front mains , Sonus Faber " Solo" center and Jamo D8 concert surrounds and Jamo E6 surround backs) are full range .
The calibration level that I use is a sound meter from RadioShack and I do it at 70 DB, "C" weighting and "Slow" response and not at 80 DB.
The two SF "Gravis" sub`s filter pass are set at 47thz , so , as they go down to 24hz , they take care of the real low bass over the speakers at that point with much better impact , of course , although I get bass from the mains too .
I really don`t know how I am going to interact with setting the speakers to "small " and the subs to 80 which seems silly to me ... I think that I tend to mix my "audiophile" point of view with the correct calibration for movies .
I guess I am in for a lot of experimentation , lol...
I use the front main speakers and the subs with my other hi-end equipment too , so I alternate them (I have developed a system of 2 sets of cables for that) , but the Denon 7200W will be used just for movies and internet music , Pandora , etc . The trick will be to find the balance between the setting of the speakers /subs with the different movie sound types and Pandora`s music ... ah, well !!!
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Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H
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