"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2457 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #73681 of 73702 Old 01-25-2015, 10:58 PM
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Question Should I use Audyessy

We watch television, movies and listen to music in our living room. Our AV equipment is setup in our living room. This room is open concept meaning there is not solid wall separating it from the dining room on the west end and no solid wall separating 50% it from a small library on the south side. An open stair way also occupies 25% of the south wall. So there is actually only 25% of actual wall on the south side of the living room. Additional there are large floor to ceiling windows in the room. Two on the north wall and one the east wall. There is also a fireplace in between the two windows on the north wall.

Given the complicated design of the living room I question the benefit of running Audyessy on my Denon AVR. Speaker placement is literally a nightmare.

So my question is should I run Audyessy?

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post #73682 of 73702 Old Yesterday, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
We watch television, movies and listen to music in our living room. Our AV equipment is setup in our living room. This room is open concept meaning there is not solid wall separating it from the dining room on the west end and no solid wall separating 50% it from a small library on the south side. An open stair way also occupies 25% of the south wall. So there is actually only 25% of actual wall on the south side of the living room. Additional there are large floor to ceiling windows in the room. Two on the north wall and one the east wall. There is also a fireplace in between the two windows on the north wall.

Given the complicated design of the living room I question the benefit of running Audyessy on my Denon AVR. Speaker placement is literally a nightmare.

So my question is should I run Audyessy?
Yes, why not?
Our living room is open into a dining area/kitchen on one side and hallway into two bedrooms on the other side and kitchen is also connected to the hallway.
Not a good layout for audio but Audyssey works magic here.
Just remember to have the doors in the house/apartment as they usually are (open or shut) when you watching movies as when you are doing the calibration.
So, why not? If you don't like it afterwards, it is easy to turn Audyssey off.
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post #73683 of 73702 Old Yesterday, 06:49 AM
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Thanks rickardl. Quess I thought we were the only ones watching and listening in a room never designed for AV. 😜

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post #73684 of 73702 Old Yesterday, 06:50 AM
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Thanks. Quess I thought we were the only ones watching and listening in a room never designed for AV. 😜

Sony HDTV KDL-46HX750, Denon AVR 1912,
DirecTV HD DVR Genie HR44, DirecTV AM21 OTA Rcvr,
Panasonic Blu-ray DMP-BD65, Toshiba HD DVD A20,
Infinity Alpha Speakers 50's, 20's, 10's, 37c
Valodyne VRP-1000 Sub, Panamax M4300-PM, Monoprice Cables
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post #73685 of 73702 Old Yesterday, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
I was just going to make the post to ask same question. I recently moved my speakers to another location and when took C+Sub reading, got some nasty dips in mid-range (100-300). I did move speakers 3 feet back and forth but results were not good. Then thought of X-32 since it is supposed to respolve (apply filters) more toward mid-range. So wanted to see what difference does X-32 make as compared to XT. I'd be nice to see some Freq/Impulse graphs that shows X-32 doing its magic.
A lengthy FAQ article has been written on this topic, and Keith has kindly provided a link. I am not sure what more evidence you would need. Any graphs that I might be able to provide show a calibration in a heavily treated listening room. Any calibration produces better results if you go to the effort to identify and resolve issues ahead of time. If you are relying on room correction to magically smooth over basic room audio issues, you are likely to be disappointed, whether you use XT or XT32.
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post #73686 of 73702 Old Yesterday, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
A lengthy FAQ article has been written on this topic, and Keith has kindly provided a link. I am not sure what more evidence you would need. Any graphs that I might be able to provide show a calibration in a heavily treated listening room. Any calibration produces better results if you go to the effort to identify and resolve issues ahead of time. If you are relying on room correction to magically smooth over basic room audio issues, you are likely to be disappointed, whether you use XT or XT32.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
A lengthy FAQ article has been written on this topic, and Keith has kindly provided a link. I am not sure what more evidence you would need.
I read that FAQ. It mostly points out how X-32 focuses more on Mid-Range vs higher ranger that XT does.

Quote:
Any graphs that I might be able to provide show a calibration in a heavily treated listening room
Yes. Your graph won't be a good example since you already have a good input to start with .

Quote:
Any calibration produces better results if you go to the effort to identify and resolve issues ahead of time. If you are relying on room correction to magically smooth over basic room audio issues, you are likely to be disappointed, whether you use XT or XT32
My idea isn't to have room correction magically fix the issues. its more towards how much room correction can help me with my current issue. All room acoustical problem can be solved by treating room. In that case, we won't need room correction besides delay and Bass management. But not all of us have the room treatment working for us as its in your case. We have more peaks and dips. Therefore we need a system that can help us in that matters. X32 is one variety. Then there is Dirac and then there is ARC among others.

The reason I asked to see graphs was to see how much of a correction X-32 can help out with. Only trying to set right expectation from the product.
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post #73687 of 73702 Old Yesterday, 11:57 AM
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I posted up some graphs earlier this month comparing XT with XT32 when I got my new AVR. Not sure how much help they'll be to you, but you can find them here:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #73688 of 73702 Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I posted up some graphs earlier this month comparing XT with XT32 when I got my new AVR. Not sure how much help they'll be to you, but you can find them here:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
Let's see how this recurring XT vs. XT32 topic develops. So far IMHO the shared graphs didn't suggest a "night and day" difference between the two well known versions, um,...regardless of being smoothed or not, or regardless of being single point or multipoint averaged measurements or not.

YMMV. No problem.
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post #73689 of 73702 Old Today, 02:15 AM
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Alan, I agree with you. ...And I prefer XT over XT32, from my eyes?

About you Feri?
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post #73690 of 73702 Old Today, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
I was just going to make the post to ask same question. I recently moved my speakers to another location and when took C+Sub reading, got some nasty dips in mid-range (100-300). I did move speakers 3 feet back and forth but results were not good. Then thought of X-32 since it is supposed to respolve (apply filters) more toward mid-range. So wanted to see what difference does X-32 make as compared to XT. I'd be nice to see some Freq/Impulse graphs that shows X-32 doing its magic.
They are in the FAQ Addendum I recently linked to.
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post #73691 of 73702 Old Today, 05:00 AM
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I have run audyssey (almost all versions) numerous times with varying results. I have high back theater chairs and have to have the mic above the back and a foot away from the back according to the faq. The last time however, I reclined the chair so the back was way down and put the mic at my normal listening height. This was the best results I have heard yet (to my ears). Normally, I have to raise the levels of the rear surrounds. This time audyssey had them correct. I also have to cover the chairs with a blanket or audyssey cuts too much of the highs out. It must get a lot of reflection off the leather.
I am not sure if anyone else has noticed anything similar or not.
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post #73692 of 73702 Old Today, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkpro View Post
I have run audyssey (almost all versions) numerous times with varying results. I have high back theater chairs and have to have the mic above the back and a foot away from the back according to the faq. The last time however, I reclined the chair so the back was way down and put the mic at my normal listening height. This was the best results I have heard yet (to my ears). Normally, I have to raise the levels of the rear surrounds. This time audyssey had them correct. I also have to cover the chairs with a blanket or audyssey cuts too much of the highs out. It must get a lot of reflection off the leather.
I am not sure if anyone else has noticed anything similar or not.
I have always lowered the back of my recliner and covered the leather chair with a non-reflective covering, and my results have been consistently very good. So, IMO, you are doing nothing wrong.
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post #73693 of 73702 Old Today, 06:14 AM
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As a long time AV user but Audyessy novice I need assistance. Dealing with an absolute nightmare of a room for AV. Here is the current situation.

Have always ran Audyessy per guidelines and left it be for years. Just recently I reset the front towers to small to obtain more output from the sub, removed the center channel from the speaker setup to create a phantom center due to the close proximity of the front towers and changed the fronts and surrounds base volume level to pure zero. Audio is is now great, really great in all seating positions.

Obviously, these changes most probably impacted Audyessy. In my novice way of thinking rerunning Audyessy will undo what I just changed yet hopefully the other Audyessy utilities wil still be of benefit. With everything sounding so great I do not want to mess it up. Btw, I have no idea how to deal with EQ and all other such settings. Equipment list provided in my signature space.

Now I'm ready for your wrath and comments. Thank you in advance.

Sony HDTV KDL-46HX750, Denon AVR 1912,
DirecTV HD DVR Genie HR44, DirecTV AM21 OTA Rcvr,
Panasonic Blu-ray DMP-BD65, Toshiba HD DVD A20,
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post #73694 of 73702 Old Today, 06:35 AM
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The only way removing speakers, changing levels, not re-running Audyssey and spelling it incorrectly can improve things is if you think it does. I will not be trying it.
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post #73695 of 73702 Unread Today, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
As a long time AV user but Audyessy novice I need assistance. Dealing with an absolute nightmare of a room for AV. Here is the current situation.

Have always ran Audyessy per guidelines and left it be for years. Just recently I reset the front towers to small to obtain more output from the sub, removed the center channel from the speaker setup to create a phantom center due to the close proximity of the front towers and changed the fronts and surrounds base volume level to pure zero. Audio is is now great, really great in all seating positions.

Obviously, these changes most probably impacted Audyessy. In my novice way of thinking rerunning Audyessy will undo what I just changed yet hopefully the other Audyessy utilities wil still be of benefit. With everything sounding so great I do not want to mess it up. Btw, I have no idea how to deal with EQ and all other such settings. Equipment list provided in my signature space.

Now I'm ready for your wrath and comments. Thank you in advance.
Audyssey will, absolutely, definitely not sneak the center speaker back into the setup while you’re not looking

Setting the L&R to small and using, say, 80Hz crossover to the sub is highly recommended. If the AVR sets the main speakers to Large after running Audyssey (it is the AVR that does this, not Audyssey) then set them back to small yourself - this will not negatively impact the calibration at all.

I am not sure what you mean by "changing the front and surrounds base volume level to pure zero". If you mean you reset all the trims to 0dB from whatever Audyssey had set them, then this is definitely NOT recommended. Audyssey is very accurate in setting the trims correctly to deliver a calibrated reference output - ie each speaker has been set to deliver the same output regardless of how far away it is from the MLP relative to the others, and its position in the room, relative to walls and corners. Changing these carefully calibrated levels to a random number (0dB) can only negatively impact the sound.

I am not sure why you feel a phantom center speaker is better than a physical center speaker. It should not be. HST, it is OK to use a phantom center provided you are the sole listener and sit directly between the L&R speakers. Any listener not sitting in that spot will have the sound skewed towards the side he is sitting. I imagine that your center speaker was not optimally setup if you prefer a phantom speaker. You mention that the centre is in "close proximity" to the L&R speakers. How close? The L&R speakers should be at 30° from the MLP each - ie you will be sitting at the head of `a triangle with angles of the right and left speakers at 30° from you. If the speakers are much closer together than this, then your imaging will be poor.

A photo of your room would be helpful if you can provide one. Phone camera is fine.

So yes, once you make any changes to the physical room you need to run Audyssey again.

These FAQ answers may help you:

e)1. Is it OK to change the trim levels Audyssey sets?


c)2. Why do I often see advice to raise the Crossovers to 80Hz?

c)3. I have big tower speakers at the front. Shouldn't I set these to Large'?

a)2. Why is dialogue from the centre channel difficult to hear or understand?
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post #73696 of 73702 Unread Today, 07:03 AM
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Now I'm ready for your wrath and comments. Thank you in advance.
Well, you certainly deserve our wrath because everything you did flies in the face of conventional wisdom. Keith has given you good advice, and I recommend you give it a try. Based on my experience, I would find it hard to believe that you would end up with worse sound, and would bet it will be improved.
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I have just purchased the HTD Level Three Towers,center, and sub, this is all in a 22x15 room with 22ft ceilings,that open up to the kitchen which is an additional 22x27 or so, which I know is a big space ant the sub may not be enough for this room. I can return it but need to be in the $500.00 range and about the same size of the wife will kill me. So I have everything set up (I Think) and I ran the Audyssey the first time and the receiver (Denon x3000) set the sub level to -12d. I re ran the program after turning the sub amp down to about the 7 O'clock position and it brought the level up to -3.5. With this setting at a listing level of about -30db (going off memory here) I don't hear any bass from the sub. All speakers are set to small and crossed at 80 htz, I did not turn the LFE to front-sub. Should I be getting more out of the sub? This is the first time I have ever played with Audyssey, I did read the FAQ section several times.

Do you think this is a set up problem that I can work with or a sub problem or both???
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Good Afternoon - I bought a SVS PC-2000 sub that I'm trying to calibrate with my 3.1 system (Marantz NR-1504 AVR and Velodyne CHT Front Row Satellite speakers) and its sounds terrible. Very muted flat tone and boomy/bloated sub. I watched Oblivion the other day using my previous manual inputs and the setup sounded fantastic. Now, I've run Audyssey about 6 times and the calibration settings (below) seem to be off, especially front and center crossover. Any suggestions? Anything look out of place? Thanks in advance!

Audyssey Settings:

Speaker Config.
Front - Small
Center - Small
Subwoofer - Yes
Surround - None

Distances
FL - 9.5ft
FR - 9.6ft
Center - 9.0ft
Sub - 13.4ft

Levels
FL - -6,0dB
FR - -4.5dB
Center - -5.5dB
Sub - -2.0dB

Crossovers
Front - 150Hz
Center - 90Hz
Velodyne indicates that the crossover should be 80Hz

Dialog Level - -5.5dB

Surround Parameter - HT EQ - Off

MultiEQ set to Audyssey
Dynamic EQ - On
Reference Level Offset - 0dB
Dynamic Volume - Medium
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Good Afternoon - I bought a SVS PC-2000 sub that I'm trying to calibrate with my 3.1 system (Marantz NR-1504 AVR and Velodyne CHT Front Row Satellite speakers) and its sounds terrible. Very muted flat tone and boomy/bloated sub. I watched Oblivion the other day using my previous manual inputs and the setup sounded fantastic. Now, I've run Audyssey about 6 times and the calibration settings (below) seem to be off, especially front and center crossover. Any suggestions? Anything look out of place? Thanks in advance!

Audyssey Settings:

Speaker Config.
Front - Small
Center - Small
Subwoofer - Yes
Surround - None

Distances
FL - 9.5ft
FR - 9.6ft
Center - 9.0ft
Sub - 13.4ft

Levels
FL - -6,0dB
FR - -4.5dB
Center - -5.5dB
Sub - -2.0dB

Crossovers
Front - 150Hz
Center - 90Hz
Velodyne indicates that the crossover should be 80Hz

Dialog Level - -5.5dB

Surround Parameter - HT EQ - Off

MultiEQ set to Audyssey
Dynamic EQ - On
Reference Level Offset - 0dB
Dynamic Volume - Medium
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post #73700 of 73702 Unread Today, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have always lowered the back of my recliner and covered the leather chair with a non-reflective covering, and my results have been consistently very good. So, IMO, you are doing nothing wrong.
Good to go. This set up definetly produced the best results.
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post #73701 of 73702 Unread Today, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sukerpooch View Post
I have just purchased the HTD Level Three Towers,center, and sub, this is all in a 22x15 room with 22ft ceilings,that open up to the kitchen which is an additional 22x27 or so, which I know is a big space ant the sub may not be enough for this room. I can return it but need to be in the $500.00 range and about the same size of the wife will kill me. So I have everything set up (I Think) and I ran the Audyssey the first time and the receiver (Denon x3000) set the sub level to -12d. I re ran the program after turning the sub amp down to about the 7 O'clock position and it brought the level up to -3.5. With this setting at a listing level of about -30db (going off memory here) I don't hear any bass from the sub. All speakers are set to small and crossed at 80 htz, I did not turn the LFE to front-sub. Should I be getting more out of the sub? This is the first time I have ever played with Audyssey, I did read the FAQ section several times.

Do you think this is a set up problem that I can work with or a sub problem or both???
Gee, I can't imagine why a 12" sub isn't doing it for you in a 20,000 cu. ft. space....really??


Did you do a sub crawl and place the sub accordingly? You could try nearfield (like directly behind or beside the MLP), you might feel something then. Also, folks usually like to run their subs hotter than where Audyssey sets 'em. Try turning up the sub trim by 3-6db.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #73702 of 73702 Unread Today, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Good Afternoon - I bought a SVS PC-2000 sub that I'm trying to calibrate with my 3.1 system (Marantz NR-1504 AVR and Velodyne CHT Front Row Satellite speakers) and its sounds terrible. Very muted flat tone and boomy/bloated sub. I watched Oblivion the other day using my previous manual inputs and the setup sounded fantastic. Now, I've run Audyssey about 6 times and the calibration settings (below) seem to be off, especially front and center crossover. Any suggestions? Anything look out of place? Thanks in advance!

Audyssey Settings:

Speaker Config.
Front - Small
Center - Small
Subwoofer - Yes
Surround - None

Distances
FL - 9.5ft
FR - 9.6ft
Center - 9.0ft
Sub - 13.4ft

Levels
FL - -6,0dB
FR - -4.5dB
Center - -5.5dB
Sub - -2.0dB

Crossovers
Front - 150Hz
Center - 90Hz
Velodyne indicates that the crossover should be 80Hz

Dialog Level - -5.5dB

Surround Parameter - HT EQ - Off

MultiEQ set to Audyssey
Dynamic EQ - On
Reference Level Offset - 0dB
Dynamic Volume - Medium
First of all, turn Dynamic Volume off.

What were your "manual" setting that sounded fantastic?

The crossover for the fronts does seem a little high. Did you use a mic boom or tripod for the Audyssey mic? Did you use the standard mic positions? At ear or tweeter level?

Pics of the room would help.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC64ii, SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4, SUB: PSA T-18 x 2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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