"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2458 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #73711 of 73737 Old Today, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Federo, do you run DV on "light" all the time for all sources?
Right now I do as I can;t really turn the volume on high because I am in an apartment. I find having it on light provides the best balance between surround and center loudness without turning it up super loud. During the day I will turn off DV but I like leaving on DEQ because it seems to give extra UMPH to the sound.
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post #73712 of 73737 Old Today, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
OK, seeing the room helps a lot. Those don't look like 22' ceilings though....

What you did when you tweaked the Audyssey settings is exactly what you should do.

Changing crossover, speaker "sizes" and speaker trims will not hurt your Audyssey calibration at all. However, instead of setting all speakers to "0" trim, you should set them so they produce 75db at the MLP. I'm assuming you don't have an SPL meter, so if I were you I'd just leave the speaker trims where Audyssey set them...it's pretty good at getting that right.

Unfortunately, Audyssey is not great at setting the preferred trim nor the correct distance for your sub. The trim, you can just adjust to taste....bump it up until it sounds good to you. The distance is another matter and really requires measurement equipment to get right.

Yeah, using a bar stool ain't the best solution...good job on ordering a tripod. Even better is a mic boom.

When you say you "placed in all 6 calibration settings" did just do it in the various seats, or did you keep them tightly clustered around the MLP (within 12")? The tight cluster tends to work better.

Did you turn DynVol off and give it a listen? You'll notice a drastic improvement by just changing that one setting, I guarantee it.
No, 12ft ceilings I believe. Yes, used the Audyssey diagram that used a tight rectangle pattern within 6ft of the MLP. Yes, turning the DynVol off made a huge improvement. Thanks for your help. We'll see what happens when I use the tripod.
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post #73713 of 73737 Old Today, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
No, 12ft ceilings I believe. Yes, used the Audyssey diagram that used a tight rectangle pattern within 6ft of the MLP. Yes, turning the DynVol off made a huge improvement. Thanks for your help. We'll see what happens when I use the tripod.
How much within 6 ft. of the MLP?
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post #73714 of 73737 Old Today, 01:52 PM
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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
How much within 6 ft. of the MLP?

Actually pretty close, 2-3ft from the MLP, 3 seating positions on the couch and 3 from in front of the coffee table. Here's the diagram I used.

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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Actually pretty close, 2-3ft from the MLP, 3 seating positions on the couch and 3 from in front of the coffee table. Here's the diagram I used.
That's great. Meantime, looking at your photos I would definitely consider the followings:

1. Angle the front left/right speakers to face MLP,

2. Pull out and nudge the center speaker by an inch off the cabinet shelf, though probably for best results I would put it on top of the cabinet with the same nudging in mind, yet tilt it with some clever solution to make it face MLP at seated ear hight. That would surely result in improved dialog intelligibility.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
That's great. Meantime, looking at your photos I would definitely consider the followings:

1. Angle the front left/right speakers to face MLP,

2. Pull out and nudge the center speaker by an inch off the cabinet shelf, though probably for best results I would put it on top of the cabinet with the same nudging in mind, yet tilt it with some clever solution to make it face MLP at seated ear hight. That would surely result in improved dialog intelligibility.

Will do thanks. I only plan on having these speakers a couple months and then purchasing the SVS Prime Bookshelf speakers and Center. The center will go on top the cabinet as its too big to go underneath.

One more question regarding crossover, trying to decide if I should set the fronts and center at 90 or 120Hz in pic 1 avr speaker settings? Velodyne specs indicate that the frequency response for the speakers is 90 Hz but SVS recommends 120Hz (pic 2). Or am I reading it wrong? I know the sub crossover is 120Hz, speakers too?

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post #73717 of 73737 Old Today, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
That's great. Meantime, looking at your photos I would definitely consider the followings:

1. Angle the front left/right speakers to face MLP,

2. Pull out and nudge the center speaker by an inch off the cabinet shelf, though probably for best results I would put it on top of the cabinet with the same nudging in mind, yet tilt it with some clever solution to make it face MLP at seated ear hight. That would surely result in improved dialog intelligibility.
I've been reading the Audyssey Setup Guide in your signature. Lots of great information. Ordering a SPL meter in the next few minutes.
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post #73718 of 73737 Old Today, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Will do thanks. I only plan on having these speakers a couple months and then purchasing the SVS Prime Bookshelf speakers and Center. The center will go on top the cabinet as its too big to go underneath.
Roger that.

Quote:
One more question regarding crossover, trying to decide if I should set the fronts and center at 90 or 120Hz in pic 1 avr speaker settings? The frequency response for the speakers is 90 Hz but SVS recommends 120Hz (pic 2). Or am I reading it wrong? I know the sub crossover is 120Hz, speakers too?
Since your avr set the crossovers @90 Hz (pic 1), I'd leave it that way. Although experimenting with either settings is free of charge. Your ears will judge.

The 120 Hz you are referring to is actually not the sub crossover frequency, but the low pass filter (LPF) setting of the low frequency effects (LFE) channel, aka the 0.1 channel. Just leave it "as is" and call it a day.
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post #73719 of 73737 Old Today, 02:49 PM
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MULTIPLE QUOTES REFERENCED

[quote=kbarnes701;31205690]Audyssey will, absolutely, definitely not sneak the center speaker back into the setup while you’re not looking

Setting the L&R to small and using, say, 80Hz crossover to the sub is highly recommended. If the AVR sets the main speakers to Large after running Audyssey (it is the AVR that does this, not Audyssey) then set them back to small yourself - this will not negatively impact the calibration at all.

I am not sure what you mean by "changing the front and surrounds base volume level to pure zero". If you mean you reset all the trims to 0dB from whatever Audyssey had set them, then this is definitely NOT recommended. Audyssey is very accurate in setting the trims correctly to deliver a calibrated reference output - ie each speaker has been set to deliver the same output regardless of how far away it is from the MLP relative to the others, and its position in the room, relative to walls and corners. Changing these carefully calibrated levels to a random number (0dB) can only negatively impact the sound.

I am not sure why you feel a phantom center speaker is better than a physical center speaker. It should not be. HST, it is OK to use a phantom center provided you are the sole listener and sit directly between the L&R speakers. Any listener not sitting in that spot will have the sound skewed towards the side he is sitting. I imagine that your center speaker was not optimally setup if you prefer a phantom speaker. You mention that the centre is in "close proximity" to the L&R speakers. How close? The L&R speakers should be at 30° from the MLP each - ie you will be sitting at the head of `a triangle with angles of the right and left speakers at 30° from you. If the speakers are much closer together than this, then your imaging will be poor.

A photo of your room would be helpful if you can provide one. Phone camera is fine.

So yes, once you make any changes to the physical room you need to run Audyssey again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, you certainly deserve our wrath because everything you did flies in the face of conventional wisdom. Keith has given you good advice, and I recommend you give it a try. Based on my experience, I would find it hard to believe that you would end up with worse sound, and would bet it will be improved.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Me again! Okay, I restored my Denon AVR-1912 so all of the Audyessy settings are back. The only change I've now have made is to set the Center to none. Believe it or not the audio front the front is much better.

QUESTION: My sub is set to 80Hz. The AVR's Bass Setting = Subwoofer Mode is LFE, LPF for LFE is 120Hz. Should I reset the subwoofer to 120Hz or reset the AVR's Bass Setting to 80Hz or "what"?

Thank you for your continued assistance.

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[quote=49Merc;31223417]MULTIPLE QUOTES REFERENCED

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Audyssey will, absolutely, definitely not sneak the center speaker back into the setup while you’re not looking

Setting the L&R to small and using, say, 80Hz crossover to the sub is highly recommended. If the AVR sets the main speakers to Large after running Audyssey (it is the AVR that does this, not Audyssey) then set them back to small yourself - this will not negatively impact the calibration at all.

I am not sure what you mean by "changing the front and surrounds base volume level to pure zero". If you mean you reset all the trims to 0dB from whatever Audyssey had set them, then this is definitely NOT recommended. Audyssey is very accurate in setting the trims correctly to deliver a calibrated reference output - ie each speaker has been set to deliver the same output regardless of how far away it is from the MLP relative to the others, and its position in the room, relative to walls and corners. Changing these carefully calibrated levels to a random number (0dB) can only negatively impact the sound.

I am not sure why you feel a phantom center speaker is better than a physical center speaker. It should not be. HST, it is OK to use a phantom center provided you are the sole listener and sit directly between the L&R speakers. Any listener not sitting in that spot will have the sound skewed towards the side he is sitting. I imagine that your center speaker was not optimally setup if you prefer a phantom speaker. You mention that the centre is in "close proximity" to the L&R speakers. How close? The L&R speakers should be at 30° from the MLP each - ie you will be sitting at the head of `a triangle with angles of the right and left speakers at 30° from you. If the speakers are much closer together than this, then your imaging will be poor.

A photo of your room would be helpful if you can provide one. Phone camera is fine.

So yes, once you make any changes to the physical room you need to run Audyssey again.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Me again! Okay, I restored my Denon AVR-1912 so all of the Audyessy settings are back. The only change I've now have made is to set the Center to none. Believe it or not the audio front the front is much better.

QUESTION: My sub is set to 80Hz. The AVR's Bass Setting = Subwoofer Mode is LFE, LPF for LFE is 120Hz. Should I reset the subwoofer to 120Hz or reset the AVR's Bass Setting to 80Hz or "what"?

Thank you for your continued assistance.

If LPF for LFE is set to 120hz, then nothing about your sub is set to 80hz, you are in good shape. Your MAIN speakers are set to 80hz, which is commonly used by most people assuming their main speakers can get that low. I think you are all set at least from this particular standpoint.

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Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
QUESTION: My sub is set to 80Hz. The AVR's Bass Setting = Subwoofer Mode is LFE, LPF for LFE is 120Hz. Should I reset the subwoofer to 120Hz or reset the AVR's Bass Setting to 80Hz or "what"?
If you mean that there's a setting on the subwoofer itself which is set to 80Hz, you should change that to be as high as you can make it. The subwoofer has to be able to accept sounds at least up to the highest of the crossover settings in the AVR.
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Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
Me again! Okay, I restored my Denon AVR-1912 so all of the Audyessy settings are back. The only change I've now have made is to set the Center to none. Believe it or not the audio front the front is much better.
I tend not to believe it, but its your system. Enjoy it to the brim!

Quote:
QUESTION: My sub is set to 80Hz. The AVR's Bass Setting = Subwoofer Mode is LFE, LPF for LFE is 120Hz. Should I reset the subwoofer to 120Hz or reset the AVR's Bass Setting to 80Hz or "what"?
I fear some confusion here. In a "bass managed system" the subwoofer channel will have a signal path from two directions.

One is the 0.1 channel, also known as the "Low Frequency Effects" channel of a 5.1 or 7.1 system. All the rumblings like explosions, dinosaur steps, etc. are recorded in this channel. The upper frequency of this channel is 120 Hz, usually called as "low pass filter" (LPF) of the LFE channel. Best is to leave it at 120 Hz.

The other signal entering the subwoofer channel is the bass contents filter out of all the speakers (sometimes referred to as "satellites") and when the speakers are set to "Small" these frequencies below the crossover frequency will be rerouted from satellites to the subwoofer channel. This is typically set to 80 Hz, though some experimenting is bliss.

See the link to "Small vs. Large" in my sig.

Hope this helps.
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post #73723 of 73737 Unread Today, 03:42 PM
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[quote=beastaudio;31223905]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
MULTIPLE QUOTES REFERENCED

If LPF for LFE is set to 120hz, then nothing about your sub is set to 80hz, you are in good shape. Your MAIN speakers are set to 80hz, which is commonly used by most people assuming their main speakers can get that low. I think you are all set at least from this particular standpoint.
Please help me better understand. My sub is physically set to 80Hz. Does this setting override the 120Hz LPF for LFE? Sorry for being such an old fart dink. 😄
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[quote=49Merc;31225665]
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Please help me better understand. My sub is physically set to 80Hz. Does this setting override the 120Hz LPF for LFE? Sorry for being such an old fart dink. 😄
How is your sub set to 80 Hz? On the sub or in the avr? If on the sub itself, then the 80 Hz will surely override the 120 Hz LPF for LFE.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
If you mean that there's a setting on the subwoofer itself which is set to 80Hz, you should change that to be as high as you can make it. The subwoofer has to be able to accept sounds at least up to the highest of the crossover settings in the AVR.
Everyone! Selena Ball understood my situation. I have turned the sub's physical setting to its highest level (200Hz).
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Quote:
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Everyone! Selena Ball understood my situation. I have turned the sub's physical setting to its highest level (200Hz).
For everyone's best understanding this should clearly mean: "physical setting" = knob on the rear side of the subwoofer!
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What is the max distance Audyssey can set for speakers and subs?

My denon 4520 only has adjustments up to 30ft.

Thanks
Ray
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Me? The higher the version the merrier, Bob...
You too have XT32, ...about Atmos? ...Intend to get it? ...Waiting for dts:x like I?

Feri, you bring the best in us; truly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
What is the max distance Audyssey can set for speakers and subs?

My denon 4520 only has adjustments up to 30ft.

Thanks
Ray
Then 30 feet is the max.
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post #73730 of 73737 Unread Today, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
You too have XT32, ...about Atmos? ...Intend to get it? ...Waiting for dts:x like I?

Feri, you bring the best in us; truly.
Fully satisfied with what I have at the moment in my living room Bob (da vanilla flavored MultEQ, as some "wood" call it!). No desire for Atmos, no way that I would install speakers on my room's ceiling, arrgh! Have other priorities in life, like till my 2 kids after university fly off the family nest!

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Test

I am having real rough time to post in this thread; there seems to be a major glitch.

Last edited by NorthSky; Today at 05:29 PM.
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You have a very very nice room Feri, your surroundings seem to be very inviting with that greenery outside.
...Would love to visit and have a bottle of wine or two with you.

P.S This is the fourth time I'm trying to post this short post. I had to exit AVSForum entirely, and only when I did get back to post again for the fifth time,
that I saw what I just posted above.

Those problems started yesterday for me; never had them that bad in the past. Must have some to do with Apple and Firefox web browser.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Then 30 feet is the max.
Someone was telling me that Audyssey can still set distances higher than that but that the user adjustments only go up to 30ft.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Someone was telling me that Audyssey can still set distances higher than that but that the user adjustments only go up to 30ft.
It's possible.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
You have a very very nice room, your surroundings seem to be very inviting with that greenery outside. ...Would love to visit and have a bottle of wine or two with you.
Thank you for your flattering Bob. As regards my setup, despite someone has recently strongly criticized it for being done for aesthetics only, please note the followings I took into consideration when done for a so called "cold setup" prior to introducing Audyssey RC:

1. Front L/Rs are set up to be +/- 30 deg with a protractor as seen from MLP. Both L&Rs t/w the Center are tilted downward to face seated MLP, as well as nudged off the shelf by an inch in order to tame early reflections. (Special note: my Dali speaker Manual explicitely recommends not to toe-in the front L/Rs due to their wide dispertion pattern design).

2. Surrounds are placed approx. 100 deg to the left and right as per Dolby's speaker placement guidelines.

3. Sub is placed at 1/4th of front room lenght from the right side (as suggested by Sanjay/ sdurani)

4. The room itself has plenty of natural dampening "stuff" to bring down reverb, like curtains, elevated book shelves, rough textured wall paper, textile seating (instead of leather), decorative table cloth on coffee table (a WAF kinda thing!), and its a closed room, no kitchen, no dining space, no "Big Room" effect here.

Welcome any time for a listening test, btw, you prefer red or white wine?

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Feri, I cannot reply in this thread any longer; there is a major glitch that won't allow me to post.
It is too frustrating, I have to go now.
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Feri, I cannot reply in this thread any longer; there is a major glitch that won't allow me to post.
It is too frustrating, I have to go now.
NorthSky is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H
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